Hi BigStuffedTiger, and yes I broadly agree with your comments. However, the chosen perspective in these posts is slightly differently .... Ok so there is this lineage that started with Cain and has a sequence of generations as described in, for example, VM, but it was gods curse (according to the bible and also Hebrew legend) that we presently interpret for the purposes of this fantasy as turning him into a vampire .... In contrast other gods are present in this game that can apparently create species and bestow powerful gifts to their chosen hero's ... LikesBlond has said that Cain and Lilith are not in the picture, but rather Inanna (VG) is probably the mother goddess behind the MC and could possibly bestow on him powers that are not in his lineage (i.e. Castelo and break the VM model). To summarise, I don't believe that we are dealing with the 'plain vanilla' VM model anyway, and I am happy just to wait and see what transpires in the game.
- Thread starter monroe
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- Jan 26, 2021
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nice debate but as the Templar stated Callisto did a similar move 700 years ago since it was last time she reproduced witch was when the Templar went "extinct" so we can assume Callisto sense some danger and decided to create a powerful weapon of annihilation for whoever might be after her goddess!
there is another theory i have in my mind... what if Callisto injected some old vamp blood that she kept in a reliquary when turning the young one so he could be as powerful as her for when the time is right?
then she could do what she did before which was to create a powerful childe a weapon of war stash him away (probably with some bonus reliquary god´s blood for his transformation and why it took so long for him to turn) with some dimwits in terms of the general game but street smart (like Sharon) so he had time to grow into is own power for when the battle is joined!
i can assume she did it before 700 years ago, 200 years prior to the birth of the princeps and at the same time the time of the fall of Constantinople and/or the end of the kingdom of Aragon (i still can not decipher the language used by the princeps if its Aragonese or a sort of Turkish dialect that is probably an amalgamation of turk with a previous regional language)!
just my half a Penny towards the discussion!
there is another theory i have in my mind... what if Callisto injected some old vamp blood that she kept in a reliquary when turning the young one so he could be as powerful as her for when the time is right?
then she could do what she did before which was to create a powerful childe a weapon of war stash him away (probably with some bonus reliquary god´s blood for his transformation and why it took so long for him to turn) with some dimwits in terms of the general game but street smart (like Sharon) so he had time to grow into is own power for when the battle is joined!
i can assume she did it before 700 years ago, 200 years prior to the birth of the princeps and at the same time the time of the fall of Constantinople and/or the end of the kingdom of Aragon (i still can not decipher the language used by the princeps if its Aragonese or a sort of Turkish dialect that is probably an amalgamation of turk with a previous regional language)!
just my half a Penny towards the discussion!
It was quite normal to the inspirational setting for vampires to pretend to be gods in the past. The two ancient Egyptian gods Set and Osiris are but two of many examples. Cain, the antedeluvians, and the eldest methusalehs wield godlike power in comparison to modern younger vampires, and vampire cults deifying the most powerful ancient vampires exist even into modern times. It's easy to see a parallel here with Rebirth even if the vampire origin story and the names involved end up differing.
I think this falls into the speculation category, but that's no worse than a lot of the VM speculation that goes on around here.
It remains to be seen the degree to which Rebirth differs from the inspirational material on this subject.
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Hi BigStuffedTiger, I understand that vampire stories mixed with religious stories are used here as a background to Rebirth. The fact that god Set killed his brother god Osiris is a similar story that the man Cain killed his brother Able is a coincidence. But Set and Osiris were both gods to start with, and according to the Bible Cain was marked by God and commanded to walk the Earth and that the mark God put upon Cain was to tell others that if they kill Cain they will suffer greater; I agree that this has been interpreted as being that Cain had a kind of longevity who can still be killed, but Cain definitely had no other powers he was just a aging man in the bible. Recent vampire lore categorises the antedeluvians, then the methusalehs, etc. as having ascending generation number with a gradual dilution and dispersion of powers with each increasing generation number. There is no parallel here. The composition of the Rebirth story appears to me to be merely a juxtaposition of several historical storylines that together provide a credible backdrop. LikesBlond has said in this thread that Cain is not in the picture and that Lilith is definitely not VG, rather Inanna is VG who IS/WAS a mother goddess that is able (according to legend) to bestow powers onto her hero's. So yes my conjecture that the MC gaining powers outside his assumed 'generation' would break the VM mould ... Hahaha this thread is absolutely rampant with wild and less wild speculations, and I don't expect that to change anytime soon ... but surely that's half the fun isn't it? I still do not believe that we are dealing with the 'plain vanilla' VM model anyway, and I remain happy just to wait and see what transpires in the game.
- Aug 27, 2020
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Personal Beliefs-
1- VtM generations are almost certainly in use as a gage of relative power and age of a vampire, with the MC being a throwback of the classic VtM Elysium supplement which had old/very old/ancient vampires siring modern childer.
2- Vision Girl is 100% Inanna
3- Dark presence goddess is Ereshkagal the sister and murderer of Inanna, and goddess of the Underworld. (95%)
4- Frank is working for number 3 (99%)
5- The gods and goddesses originals are 1st generation vampires, thus much different than a single progenitor, and allowing for a lot more serious intrigue at the top, middle, and bottom of the food chain.
6- So Inanna as the founder, 1st gen and not 3rd gen, several vampires happen next, then Calisto sometime around -2500 BCE. (95%)
7- Virgil is the first childe of Calisto, sired around 4,000 years ago. He was beaten by her but not destroyed, when he attempted to slay and devour her soul. He is back for round 2, and she can not detect him because he has browsed a bit outside his bloodline and found ways to alter everything about himself. (75%)
8- Nos are descended through 3 above. (95%)
Just food from my brain.
Peace
1- VtM generations are almost certainly in use as a gage of relative power and age of a vampire, with the MC being a throwback of the classic VtM Elysium supplement which had old/very old/ancient vampires siring modern childer.
2- Vision Girl is 100% Inanna
3- Dark presence goddess is Ereshkagal the sister and murderer of Inanna, and goddess of the Underworld. (95%)
4- Frank is working for number 3 (99%)
5- The gods and goddesses originals are 1st generation vampires, thus much different than a single progenitor, and allowing for a lot more serious intrigue at the top, middle, and bottom of the food chain.
6- So Inanna as the founder, 1st gen and not 3rd gen, several vampires happen next, then Calisto sometime around -2500 BCE. (95%)
7- Virgil is the first childe of Calisto, sired around 4,000 years ago. He was beaten by her but not destroyed, when he attempted to slay and devour her soul. He is back for round 2, and she can not detect him because he has browsed a bit outside his bloodline and found ways to alter everything about himself. (75%)
8- Nos are descended through 3 above. (95%)
Just food from my brain.
Peace
Hi Arigon, I like your 'personal beliefs' given above, and I also note that all of our 'beliefs' have changed with time as LikeBlonds revealed more of his most excellent story. I would not agree with the percentages that you give, but I can see where you are coming from. Whilst I don't recall LikesBlonds ever mentioning VM lore within the story, I do recall him commenting both in this thread and in the story on the conflict between 'ancient gods' that have been there since the beginning of time (which rules out the Cain origin and similar hypotheses) and how they bestow their proxy warriors with powers ... these do not indicate a VM generational model to me, but imply a bespoke model that may include VM aspects ... a juxtaposition. The fact that our 'beliefs' differ over details is not relevant but simply adds to the debate regarding our expectation of future reveals. Live long and prosper.
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- Aug 27, 2020
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Hey Bud,
In conversations on Discord and on the Patreon sites both authors have cited that VtM is the obvious inspiration from which they are drawing, but have added history as well as their own unique views to this work. I absolutely do not disagree that you have valid points and that pulling strictly from what is written, you would have VtM flavor, without much more support for what I have said. The truth is that I hope they deviate from VtM more and more as they go along, but, to give us a common framework of understanding, I understand that they drew from what they knew!
In any case, I am definitely looking forward to our next few updates. We shall see what is coming down the road. We were promised that a lot of reveals will happen in this entire episode or chapter (not update) and with December literally just around the corner now, there remains a lot to reveal!
Peace
- Aug 5, 2016
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I don't remember anything about generations from Rebirth. They just say this or that about old powerful vampires that is.
VTM has generations for power levels but Rebirth isn't a step by step VTM campaign.
VTM has generations for power levels but Rebirth isn't a step by step VTM campaign.
Does anyone have the completed save file for episode 2? I did a reinstall, and now I can't start ep 3, because it says ep 2 is not finished. Mac.
- Dec 19, 2019
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again gen theories hahaha and who said that vampire need gen at all??? all here arguing WhiteWolf shit... and original lore of vampire there is no gen, and no some weird blood only age play role and Nos is manifestation if vampire is close to his beast and losing humanity and his appearance changing according to the beast.. and who said that likeblondes use even whitewolf shit v5 books.. i think Likeblondes dont even read v5 vampire book... only pick up few gueses from white wolf wiki... and so far i dont even detect nothing from v5 books and lore in game...
- Jul 16, 2021
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And now 389 pages of discussion, are you people possibly thralled by DEV?
- Dec 19, 2019
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that is true lore of game
first Greek theories now shifting to Mesopotamia in the end will be Atlantis or Lemuria continent when we discover who is "the scary dude" in pool who is looking at MC and Mesopotamian Goddess warned us to forget about that hahah
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- Aug 27, 2020
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First of all-
We know for a fact that Vampire the Masquerade is the primary source for inspiration of this game material.
Second of all-
VtM 5th Edition is absolute Shit. The 2nd Edition is the only one that really matters lore wise.
Likesblondes and Co-Author Ptolemy both are inspired by VtM. Just not the shitpile version you mentioned, which by the way is not even owned by White Wolf anymore, now published by Onyx and a shit job they are doing, just saying.
We also KNOW that Sumer/Pre-Sumer civilization is where our Vision Girl is coming from, and her name is most likely Inanna.
Calisto is from Ancient Greece about 3k to as much as 10,000 years after Inanna.
MC is about 4.5k years later.
Peace
- Aug 27, 2020
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Scary dude is probably a Scary girl. Ereshkagal - sister of Inanna and her murderess, and goddess of the Underworld.that is true lore of game
- Dec 23, 2019
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I'm not that great on VtM lore but have been wondering if MC may be stronger than a bunch of the hierarchy that currently Rules? due to him being sired by an ancient Vampire (possibly full-blooded/pure) not a water-downed but still strong version after centuries if not millenniums like most of the Vamp society
- Aug 27, 2020
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Yes
MC is not the most powerful vampire in the game, but due to the power (Generation and Age) of Calisto he is similar in power to a pretty powerful elder. He is likely on par with the Princep/Fabian if not a little more. Probably less powerful than Virgil.
Definitely less powerful than Calisto.
Pure/full-blooded does not apply here. Vampire the Masquerade does not use such terminology. Weak blooded is a term, and that is for 13 and 13+ generation vampires. The higher the generation, the less powerful the vampire as a rule.
It is possible to have an ancient high generation vampire be powerful, but they do not have the potential, nor can they create as powerful childer. (new vampires)
- May 28, 2020
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A childe would still be a childe, if we're talking disciplines, a 5 dot 13th gen would win against a low gen childe. Only advantage he has here is blood points he could spend per turn, to heal and empower his physique. But as a rule no vamp can heal aggravated wounds as easily as fatal and blunt damage. Most dangerous thing about older vampires is not raw power per se, It's connections and how they play the influence and politics game.
- Dec 19, 2019
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LB dont even write on 2nd edition
we dont need to mention v5 and dont use word "WE" know better use 'I THINK" ... like you are the only one here 100% reliable source and only patreon... there is many here and we are trolled Ancient Greece blaa blaaaa all from you... copy paste LB comment that your " greece" and theories are reliable...
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