D3xzalias

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Callisto's previous childe was probably diablerlized. Because of her potent bloodline any childe she makes immediately has a giant X painted on their back. Secretly embracing the MC gave the MC a higher shot at survival. I may turn out to be wrong on that, but at the moment it strikes me as the most likely possibility.
Its was basically said by Fabian in episode 2 "Never thought she breed again". "Be careful maybe some elder decides to drink you dry." "She shit herself when she finds out you're still alive."

So definitely done in secret. Honestly don't what her big plan is with MC but i highly doubt he likes living in a temple
 
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We do not even know what the temple is, to who it is dedicated (the sisters/ Zeus or another of first vamps, all first vamps or even those who created the vamps) or what the goal is of Temple, just worshipping, bringing back from sleep or making sure the old ones keep sleeping contentedly? That can all have such big impact on how game will play out and whom allies and enemies will be in the end or enemy turning into allies or other way around, just like there might be a big difference if Eery and VG are friendly rivals, allies or immortal enemies.
One of my frustrations with the MC is his lack of curiosity. These are questions I'd have asked as soon as I discovered my vampire Mom was involved with the Temple.

And speaking of Eery and VG, the switch from Eery to VG and then back to Eery during the dream made me do a double take in the last update. Did VG really want to "play with" Eery? Did Eery look scared of VG? The MC seemed to think so.
 
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DA22

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One of my frustrations with the MC is his lack of curiosity. These are questions I'd have asked as soon as I discovered my vampire Mom was involved with the Temple.

And speaking of Eery and VG, the switch from Eery to VG and then back to Eery during the dream made me do a double take in the last update. Did VG really want to "play with" Eery? Did Eery look scared of VG? The MC seemed to think so.
Yeah besides we do not even know whether C is cunning per se, but we can assume she is very capble of taking care of herself and survive. Remember based on her myth we can assume that as a young vamp she survived being in the eye of some older vamps of which at least one had bad intentions to her and she survived and then grew out to become someone who is a myth to modern vampires, so yeah she is def capable and proved it.

Considering her reasons to turn MC, yeah it could have been simple boredom from her part. Still it did go against her normal pattern of behavior if we interpret the comments of Fabian correctly and those are true. Bringing at least some of us to the theory with some other clues that VG might have been involved in that, but yeah until we get a hard confirmation of VG or C explaining her reason or overturning Fabians comments if she had many childe that stays vague.

Teasing a bit: Who knows maybe Arigon will get his happy end and it turns out Zephyr is also a hidden childe of C or that first childe if devs decided to make her female and always wanted a little brother and when she finds out starts an incestuous relation with MC for eternity after diablerizing all competition. :p We know Ptolemy can do a mean incest story if he wants to. :ROFLMAO: (Nope I do not believe in this even with weirdest tinfoil hat on).
 
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DA22

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And speaking of Eery and VG, the switch from Eery to VG and then back to Eery during the dream made me do a double take in the last update. Did VG really want to "play with" Eery? Did Eery look scared of VG? The MC seemed to think so.
Well one of my theories about the situation between Eery and VG, if both might indeed be based on Inanna myths is that Eery forced her sister to go sleep and kept her there and that the second part of the myth where she was freed has not happened yet in this game and Eery is thinking her Sis is still safely disposed of and sudden awareness that VG is already quite capable by now to influence world and reach out might be a shock to her. It can be completely different though, just one way it may play out, background of VG when shown might hint at it or not.

edit: Another option is that the thing in the cave is not Eery herself but one of her oldest childe guarding entrance to her. Not sure but I would expect some more awareness of her surroundings and bigger reach if she is a mythical ancient vamp of Inanna's power level. So either something is the matter with her maybe connected to keeping her sister asleep/prisoner or something else that makes her less aware or intelligent as she should be based upon my epectations (Is there maybe a Temple connection there?) or what is there is extremely powerful but suffering from same kind of thing as Frank and Merrick or extremely weakened since very hungry, but then how did Merrick and Frank escape being feeded upon when she got power over them or forced to bring her morsels at least.
 
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-CookieMonster666-

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There are so many comments on this thread, I can't possibly read them all, so I'm sorry if this has already been suggested. Wouldn't it be interesting, though, if somehow that thing the MC keeps seeing in dreams turns out to be the remnants of a previous peer of Calisto? I think there's no question it's an ancient force that has been a threat to vampires for a very long while, but the nature of the thing hasn't really been determined. I have no evidence to back up my thought about it, but it interests me as a possibility somehow anyway.
 

DA22

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There are so many comments on this thread, I can't possibly read them all, so I'm sorry if this has already been suggested. Wouldn't it be interesting, though, if somehow that thing the MC keeps seeing in dreams turns out to be the remnants of a previous peer of Calisto? I think there's no question it's an ancient force that has been a threat to vampires for a very long while, but the nature of the thing hasn't really been determined. I have no evidence to back up my thought about it, but it interests me as a possibility somehow anyway.
Not impossible, though Arigon thinks it is/may be connected to Erishkigal, the sister of Inanna or it is her (not sure how much of that is based on remarks of the devs). That does not mean though per se that it can not be connected with what you suspect as well. Just it would mean likely what MC felt is not Eery herself (or there is a connection from past between Eery and the one you mention which is not impossible either with her past as we know it), which I said just above in a post is possible and ofc that would also mean if connected with what you suspect, that would not be a coincidence for sure. Just the question remains who is the puppet master(s) and who is the puppet . :p
 
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-CookieMonster666-

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Not impossible, though Arigon thinks it is/may be connected to Erishkigal, the sister of Inanna or it is her (not sure how much of that is based on remarks of the devs). That does not mean though per se that it can not be connected with what you suspect as well. Just it would mean likely what MC felt is not Eery herself (or there is a connection from past between Eery and the one you mention which is not impossible either with her past as we know it), which I said just above in a post is possible and ofc that would also mean if connected with what you suspect, that would not be a coincidence for sure. Just the question remains who is the puppet master(s) and who is the puppet . :p
OK, since some of us are only just familiar with VtM (I played the Redemption video game, and that's it), can you explain who "Erishkigal" is? And who is "Eery"? Discussions here get confusing when people talk in VtM jargon / references . . . which are practically meaningless for some of us. :oops: Sorry for being out of the loop so much.
 

c3p0

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OK, since some of us are only just familiar with VtM (I played the Redemption video game, and that's it), can you explain who "Erishkigal" is? And who is "Eery"? Discussions here get confusing when people talk in VtM jargon / references . . . which are practically meaningless for some of us. :oops: Sorry for being out of the loop so much.
Not much here with VtM terms.
Erishkigal is the sister to Inanna, both goddess of the Mesopotamian. Eery is most likely DA22 short version for her or the eerie thing in the water.
 
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-CookieMonster666-

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Not much here with VtM terms.
Erishkigal is sister to the Inanna, both goddess of the Mesopotamian. Eery is most likely DA22 short version for her or the eerie thing in the water.
And what is the relation of Inanna to the vampires? It's very possible I've forgotten some things from the game, like what the skalds discussed with Sharon and the MC.
 

DA22

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And what is the relation of Inanna to the vampires? It's very possible I've forgotten some things from the game, like what the skalds discussed with Sharon and the MC.
C3pO answered already perfectly, thanks. :p I can add to that the skalds also dropped the name Tiamat, who is the ultimate first goddess of that religion and sometimes also seen as a personification or later version of the Mother Goddess. Furthermore through Arigon and if remember right from one or two other patreons it seems devs did confirm the name Inanna to have importance and she is one of the main vampires in this game and that she is as much a myth to Callisto as Callisto is to modern vampires and also as much as a step up in power level.

Erishkigal was for sure mentioned by Arigon as most likely being related to creature in caves and yeah I tend to call her Eery for short:p, Just not sure how much of that was based on info provided devs in talks with Ptolemy or posts of them on discord or is his own deduction. Arigon himself or Dallas might be able to shine more light on that.

This game is not just based on VTM even if devs might have been inspired by the society in that world, but also loans some of old mythology especially concerning the origins of vampires (there is no Cain for example as first source, but multiple first sources it seems) and retells those tales with a twist, so I would not be to surprised if this game is partly the retelling of the escape of Inanna with a few twists like Inanna being a vampire, it would also fit with the title Rebirth, which could just as easily just be about MC though. Just like MC's vamp mommy is the Callisto from Greek myth, even though VG seems to claim that mommy role as well when comes to MC weirdly enough .
 
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-CookieMonster666-

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OK, so....

Vision Girl: This is the bloody-mouthed vampiress the MC sees (when feeding, for example) who says things like "You don't want to go there", "Not too much", etc., right? She's theorized to be Inanna, then. Got it. Many thousands of years old and extremely powerful supposedly.

Inanna: Regardless of whether she's "vision girl" or not, Frode spoke about her being buried in the earth still. She could be the one whom Frank wants to dig up, although it seems to be unclear.

Ereshkigal: Sister of Inanna and Goddess of the Underworld, not worshiped a lot but well-known anyway. She was executed by Inanna for some reason, and then Inanna was rescued? The previous "summary" was lengthy and a little confusing, if I'm honest. But it sounds like Arigon (and maybe others) think this is likely the true antagonist of the game.

Calisto: Possibly someone from around Ancient Greece, even maybe having been a priestess of Hera or something.

Do I have this more or less correct now?
 
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DA22

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OK, so....

Vision Girl: This is the bloody-mouthed vampiress the MC sees (when feeding, for example) who says things like "You don't want to go there", "Not too much", etc., right? She's theorized to be Inanna, then. Got it. Many thousands of years old and extremely powerful supposedly.

Inanna: Regardless of whether she's "vision girl" or not, Frode spoke about her being buried in the earth still. She could be the one whom Frank wants to dig up, although it seems to be unclear.

Ereshkigal: Sister of Inanna and Goddess of the Underworld, not worshiped a lot but well-known anyway. She was executed by Inanna for some reason, and then Inanna was rescued? The previous "summary" was lengthy and a little confusing, if I'm honest. But it sounds like Arigon (and maybe others) think this is likely the true antagonist of the game.

Calisto: Possibly someone from around Ancient Greece, even maybe having been a priestess of Hera or something.

Do I have this more or less correct now?
Yup, though it was Erishkighal who executed Inanna and kept her in the Underworld until she was saved in the myths. Reasons why and who or what saved her in the end can vary based on retellings of the myth and from what time period they come. To make it even more fun Inanna was clearly also a major influence on the later Egyptian goddess Isis, (where she was the good one, in some of the Inanna myths that is less clearcut though and she feels actually quite power hungry and her sister might have had a point,) who has a similar tale but different. :p

C is confirmed by devs to be that Callisto though, it is not a possibility and she is also thousands of years old and extremely powerful compared to modern vamps. Inanna is just as big a step up again and if creature in cave is related to Eriskhigal and she also plays a role in game, we can assume she is at about same power level as Inanna. Which in VTM terms might mean, bring hundreds of nukes if have to deal with her....

Now if it is Tiamat somehow and Erishkigal is a false thread or not the big bad in the end but an ally, well then we might be even speaking a major step up from Inanna again and you might need both of them working together. Good luck to MC to make that happen. :p
 
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c3p0

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OK, so....

Vision Girl: This is the bloody-mouthed vampiress the MC sees (when feeding, for example) who says things like "You don't want to go there", "Not too much", etc., right? She's theorized to be Inanna, then. Got it. Many thousands of years old and extremely powerful supposedly.

Inanna: Regardless of whether she's "vision girl" or not, Frode spoke about her being buried in the earth still. She could be the one whom Frank wants to dig up, although it seems to be unclear.

Ereshkigal: Sister of Inanna and Goddess of the Underworld, not worshiped a lot but well-known anyway. She was executed by Inanna for some reason, and then Inanna was rescued? The previous "summary" was lengthy and a little confusing, if I'm honest. But it sounds like Arigon (and maybe others) think this is likely the true antagonist of the game.

Calisto: Possibly someone from around Ancient Greece, even maybe having been a priestess of Hera or something.

Do I have this more or less correct now?
More or less that are the basics here. If you want a, most likely, long explanation, just ask Arigon.
 

-CookieMonster666-

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Yup, though it was Erishkighal who executed Inanna and kept her in the Underworld until she was saved in the myths. Reasons why and who or what saved her in the end can vary based on retellings of the myth and from what time period they come. To make it even more fun Inanna was clearly also a major influence on the later Egyptian goddess Isis, (where she was the good one, in some of the Inanna myths that is less clearcut though and she feels actually quite power hungry and her sister might have had a point,) who has a similar tale but different. :p

C is confirmed by devs to be that Callisto though, it is not a possibility and she is also thousands of years old and extremely powerful compared to modern vamps. Inanna is just as big a step up again and if creature in cave is related to Eriskhigal and she also plays a role in game, we can assume she is at about same power level as Inanna. Which in VTM terms might mean, bring hundreds of nukes if have to deal with her....

Now if it is Tiamat somehow and Erishkigal is a false thread or not the big bad in the end but an ally, well then we might be even speaking a major step up from Inanna again and you might need both of them working together. Good luck to MC to make that happen. :p
More or less that are the basics here. If you want a, most likely, long explanation, just ask Arigon.
Yeah, that was my summary of a "summed up" version of a previous post by Arigon. I don't need things to be extremely succinct per se, but 3 paragraphs per individual makes "summary" a bit generous for a label.
 

Warscared

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Yup, though it was Erishkighal who executed Inanna and kept her in the Underworld until she was saved in the myths. Reasons why and who or what saved her in the end can vary based on retellings of the myth and from what time period they come. To make it even more fun Inanna was clearly also a major influence on the later Egyptian goddess Isis, (where she was the good one, in some of the Inanna myths that is less clearcut though and she feels actually quite power hungry and her sister might have had a point,) who has a similar tale but different. :p

C is confirmed by devs to be that Callisto though, it is not a possibility and she is also thousands of years old and extremely powerful compared to modern vamps. Inanna is just as big a step up again and if creature in cave is related to Eriskhigal and she also plays a role in game, we can assume she is at about same power level as Inanna. Which in VTM terms might mean, bring hundreds of nukes if have to deal with her....

Now if it is Tiamat somehow and Erishkigal is a false thread or not the big bad in the end but an ally, well then we might be even speaking a major step up from Inanna again and you might need both of them working together. Good luck to MC to make that happen. :p
Erikhs and Inna are twin sisters... there is a tag missing in this game!

it also brings into question of who is who!

i also like the idea that the lake thing is like C guarding the temple of erikhs and the NOS are trying to release her would be a good twist and on the end chapter you have to shoot one of them... but they are twins!
 
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-CookieMonster666-

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Erikhs and Inna are twin sisters... there is a tag missing in this game!
I think technically, unless it's confirmed that they are twins in the game, the tag isn't supposed to be used. We don't know for sure that they are Inanna and Erishkighal, despite what it may seem. Until that's confirmed, I'm pretty sure the tag's supposed to be left off. It's like in a game if you cream all of the women and they say they're not using protection. Until pregnancy is actually confirmed (a test comes back, a baby bump forms, etc.) officially a thread isn't supposed to get the tag. While I agree that it probably should be added later, that shouldn't happen until those are confirmed to be twins — whether Inanna and Erishkighal specifically or not.
 
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Arigon

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LMFAO
I love you c3p0 !!!!!

So a theory, more than a year ago, before the name Inanna was dropped, was that Vision Girl is Inanna.
My explanation of my theories to Ptolemy and LikesBlondes is why I now have the honor of working for them *granted I am way down the food chain.

Inanna has nothing to do with VtM.
So my shortest possible answer here is this.

The guys use VtM for some of the mechanical aspects, and as an overall thematic element. Mythology, and most of the powers are their creation, though granted, some are very similar to their inspirational game.

In VtM Caine is the Third Human, cursed by the God of Abraham to live forever as a Vampire for killing his brother Abel.

In Rebirth, there is no Caine. There are "generations". There are "founders". These are similar to VtM, but for copyright reasons, they are not as they are in VtM.

So, originally we all speculated on a lot of things, having to do with clans, and which vampire was what.

This led to a discussion of what was this chick surrounded by blood, that spoke in the visions of the MC. We called her Vision Girl, and she went from being a vision to a founder of a line of vampires. Calisto and myths about that name led us to speculate that VG was Artemis. It actually fit pretty well in our mutual theory crafting. Now I have a file I can't upload, that has a huge speculative genealogy on every named vampire ( and a couple un named) in the game. I also have every ancient religion I could dig up, diagramed with possibilities for who the VG could have been.

When I was shot down in discussions with Ptolemy, I was given the hint that :

Calisto is mythical to the vampires that inhabit the city. She is ancient.

As she is to them, Vision Girl is to Calisto.

So much for Artemis.

So I went back to ancient, ancient times.

Inanna was a good fit, and I even told the guys the whole theory of why she is naked, why she is surrounded in blood, and why she needs help. What cinched it was when I brought Ereshkigal into the story. She is key, and yes, she will look almost identical to Inanna as they are sisters. Tiamat is essential as well.

Inanna is probably something along the lines of what the Second Generation was supposed to be, possibly even a Caine like figure in a world where a lot of those would be running around. Either way, she is a goddess. Her sister murdered her, and or placed her into torpor.

Ereshkigal is probably no more good or evil than Inanna, except that she was the goddess of the Underworld, and killed her sister and refused to let her leave. All these gods and goddesses have motivations that are incomprehensible to normal people. Calisto is more understandable, but not a whole lot more. Still, the thing in the water, Ereshkegal or her version of Calisto that guards her (I can speculate on names of guardians but lets stay simple at the moment) is vastly powerful, and is intruding onto the MC's world. Just as Inanna has been.
They will likely be more revealed by this chapter's end as I was told this will be a chapter of revelations to the MC.
It already has been to an extent, but there is more to come.

So to the matter of Calisto, and her first childe. Mythic story has Calisto and her illicit childe (with Zeus) being turned to bears by Hera. Interesting point the Temple High Priestess for all the goddesses of Ancient Greece were virginal young women Except for Hera's. All the other goddessess' High Priestesses served for one year only, Except for Hera. Hers was a lifetime appointment. Point is this. Calisto is a MILF. She served Hera. Hera cursed her to bear form. Hera is likely Calisto's sire. Hera is not in the picture at the moment. However, important to note, as the VtM had a clan of wolfboys, so does Rebirth, and they call them wolfboys and not a proper clan name. The only clan names we have heard so far are the Templars and the Nos. There are more.

Anyhow, Calisto has a bear form as her battle form if all my crazy theories are correct. Her claws are stronger than the wolfboy claws. Marcus noted that the MC claws were different and more potent.
I believe that Virgil is Arcas, the first childe of Calisto. I think he tried to commit diablerie on her, and failed. She was saved by Zeus. He placed them in the stars as Ursa Major and Ursa Minor in the myths, so I think it is safe to say that her first childe is a bad ass that wants round 2.

So the MC is not going to ever be the most powerful vampire in the story. He will be the most influential.
Calisto will become much more compatible as a love interest, which currently she is Dom material and not much else. The method to that madness is to gain her respect. As well as gaining power. That most likely involves saving her life. From Virgil.
Calisto is VERIFIED as a LOVE INTEREST. Just to be clear on that matter.

Killing Virgil/Arcas and saving Calisto as a plot thread has a great deal of potential to level the scales, which of course elevates the MC further, but not so far as to outshine his maker, or the other mega vamps in the story. If He commits Diablerie on Virgil, then he will gain power. Not a generation (unless Virgil was lucky enough to bag a 4th generation equivalent vampire somewhere along the line) *** this makes the assumption that Vision Girl is 2nd, Hera is 3rd, Calisto is 4th, and Virgil and MC are 5th. If there are other intervening vampires and Calisto is 5th instead, add one to our MC for generation. Anyway the MC would gain a lot of knowledge and in vampire worlds knowledge is power.

Ok so I will wrap by saying this. In all likelihood this chapter will end with a strike on Calisto. She is out of her stronghold. Virgil is moving pieces to the vicinity (Eloise is there as muscle, Zephir in and out, Marcius has interests so he says, Malia is in town, Fabian is here) So it could be a real big bad time in the old time tonight. If the watery thing is a guardian rather than Ereshkigal, which is not unlikely, and she has been calling the Nos and feeding from them and their brains to come out of torpor, that represents another immediate threat to Calisto. Either way, I think we have a big climax to this chapter, then chapter four is the aftermath and the prep for a bigger showdown between the sisters (Inanna and Ereshkigal) in chapter 5. Chapter 5 will be maneuvering towards the end game of the book at the conclusion of chapter 5.

There may be further stories depending on how well this does commercially so if you like the AVN, support the guys.

Peace all, and I would have gone longer, but a certain someone already hinted I am long winded, so I cut a lot, and I will leave this shorter version for you!
 
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