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Meushi

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Aug 4, 2017
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One thing that comes to my mind is, what if Fabian our cousin will come down into the cave to help us out? Perhaps even sacrifice himself, so we can get out. Could be that the thing under the water - and I don't think it is Eski - will rise faster due the boost from Fabian blood.
Calisto wants the MC to prove herself by taking the elder out, so seems unlikely she'd be OK with Fabian bailing them out, let alone sacrificing himself. He's much more invested in keeping Calisto's favour than helping out his cousin.

I could see Fabian tailing them to observe how things go, but not getting close or intentionally involved. In that case he might help them if they make it back to the entrance once things go sideways. I don't think Fabian would have much trouble fighting off Markus' crew if it came to it, since he's far older than most of them + has magic tricks.
Yet we haven't seen Liam once since the event with Calisto. I assume if one of Calisto's inner circle is a double agent, have their own goals that goes against Calisto's goals or are going to betray her, then it is him.
Yes we have, Liam was tailing the MC when he had dinner with his mother & Laurie. I assume that was for Calisto, but who knows.
 

Arigon

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Aug 27, 2020
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Using the latest build of Ep 3? Check their Patreon page as Ep 3 is public and all can download it there.

Back to speculation time: What about Liam - and where are my 50 grands?!
Liam must be in some of the inner circle of Calisto or at least the sanctuary she is in charge. Otherwise why would he be tasked to hire the MC as their DJ at the event?

We've see Cindy as Calisto's handmaiden. We've seen Fabian as Calisto's proxy. Yet we haven't seen Liam once since the event with Calisto. I assume if one of Calisto's inner circle is a double agent, have their own goals that goes against Calisto's goals or are going to betray her, then it is him.
So the only 2 times we have seen him away from the door, both led to the MC visiting the Temple. Granted for different reasons.

Liam fell off my radar man!

I have assumed he was a thrall.... what if he isn't?

fuck

Now I have to go dwell on this! Thank you bud!
Peace
 

Arigon

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Calisto wants the MC to prove herself by taking the elder out, so seems unlikely she'd be OK with Fabian bailing them out, let alone sacrificing himself. He's much more invested in keeping Calisto's favour than helping out his cousin.

I could see Fabian tailing them to observe how things go, but not getting close or intentionally involved. In that case he might help them if they make it back to the entrance once things go sideways. I don't think Fabian would have much trouble fighting off Markus' crew if it came to it, since he's far older than most of them + has magic tricks.

Yes we have, Liam was tailing the MC when he had dinner with his mother & Laurie. I assume that was for Calisto, but who knows.
Ahhhh Ye of little faith!
Lol.
We shall see I guess.
Peace
 
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Arigon

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Aug 27, 2020
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Thoughts on Liam.
He is referred to as probably just one of Calisto's thralls when the MC mentions him to Sharon.
Now I trust Sharon's judgement only marginally more than I don't believe in Santa Clause. Oh yeah, the Big Red Dude is much more real than her good judgement, I realize it is a bad example!

So.

If he is a scion of the Temple similarly to Cindy, this obviously changes some of the balances of power in the overall novel.
But, if he is an ancient Thrall, he can be dangerous as well, especially if he is HER thrall.

I do not think he is Calisto's thrall.
Why would she place on of her trusted daytime guardians on nightwatch of the door at the Temple?
Why would she send one of her trusted daytime guardians to a nightclub to recruit her future childe?
Why would she send one of her trusted daytime guardians to spy on the MC and trigger him for a meeting with her before she was ready?

Even dumbass Sharon knows that her thrall is her daytime guardian.

True, Calisto can maintain a ton of thralls, hell she may as far as we know. We just know that she travels with Fabian nearby and Cindy by her side. If he was her thrall, shouldn't he have come to protect her from the kind of violence that Andrew wanted to commit?

So... Logically- Liam is not her thrall. If he is not her thrall, and he is not Cindy's thrall, (he would have come along to Scottstown to protect her during the daytime because GAWD knows as obnoxious as she is, she needs protecting)
THEN he is a vampire. He is affiliated with the Temple.

The only vampires that will be of Calisto's get, or her descendants, are through Arcas aka Virgil. Now there may be some of those out there that are loyal to her and the Temple, rather than their errant father, but.... I would bank on Sharon being a genius before that.

So.

Most if not all of the members of the Temple probably come from bloodlines that are not related directly to Calisto, but could be cousins like Fabian, or unrelated totally.

The likelihood that Liam is one of Virgil's line, IF Virgil is Arcas, and all of that, is pretty slim. UNLESS, during the 4,500 years separating their last bout, Virgil diablerized an elder that made him more potent, and taught him to disguise himself AND passed that trait down in his now "new" bloodline, OR if perhaps Ereshkigal has taught him a trick and shared blood and he is working for her instead of his own Ego, OR if there are other players that are keeping a watch on the Temple and all their tendrils of power, of which, the MC is one whether he likes it or not.

Point of all of this is;

Liam is a player. He is a pawn on the board, maybe more. He is not a thrall of Calisto's, and is almost certainly a vampire given his night time duties.

Thank you c3p0 !
Peace
 

Warscared

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2021
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Thoughts on Liam.
He is referred to as probably just one of Calisto's thralls when the MC mentions him to Sharon.
Now I trust Sharon's judgement only marginally more than I don't believe in Santa Clause. Oh yeah, the Big Red Dude is much more real than her good judgement, I realize it is a bad example!

So.

If he is a scion of the Temple similarly to Cindy, this obviously changes some of the balances of power in the overall novel.
But, if he is an ancient Thrall, he can be dangerous as well, especially if he is HER thrall.

I do not think he is Calisto's thrall.
Why would she place on of her trusted daytime guardians on nightwatch of the door at the Temple?
Why would she send one of her trusted daytime guardians to a nightclub to recruit her future childe?
Why would she send one of her trusted daytime guardians to spy on the MC and trigger him for a meeting with her before she was ready?

Even dumbass Sharon knows that her thrall is her daytime guardian.

True, Calisto can maintain a ton of thralls, hell she may as far as we know. We just know that she travels with Fabian nearby and Cindy by her side. If he was her thrall, shouldn't he have come to protect her from the kind of violence that Andrew wanted to commit?

So... Logically- Liam is not her thrall. If he is not her thrall, and he is not Cindy's thrall, (he would have come along to Scottstown to protect her during the daytime because GAWD knows as obnoxious as she is, she needs protecting)
THEN he is a vampire. He is affiliated with the Temple.

The only vampires that will be of Calisto's get, or her descendants, are through Arcas aka Virgil. Now there may be some of those out there that are loyal to her and the Temple, rather than their errant father, but.... I would bank on Sharon being a genius before that.

So.

Most if not all of the members of the Temple probably come from bloodlines that are not related directly to Calisto, but could be cousins like Fabian, or unrelated totally.

The likelihood that Liam is one of Virgil's line, IF Virgil is Arcas, and all of that, is pretty slim. UNLESS, during the 4,500 years separating their last bout, Virgil diablerized an elder that made him more potent, and taught him to disguise himself AND passed that trait down in his now "new" bloodline, OR if perhaps Ereshkigal has taught him a trick and shared blood and he is working for her instead of his own Ego, OR if there are other players that are keeping a watch on the Temple and all their tendrils of power, of which, the MC is one whether he likes it or not.

Point of all of this is;

Liam is a player. He is a pawn on the board, maybe more. He is not a thrall of Calisto's, and is almost certainly a vampire given his night time duties.

Thank you c3p0 !
Peace
or he is Malia thrall and the tool she used to set up a glass cannon just like Malia is Innana tool to act in creating the MC!
Interesting.
Tool yes.
Thralled Vampire possibly.
Thralled human. Not.
Malia's childe maybe? He is very Metrosexual..
Could be!?
well he picks the mc from point a to point b point a being Malia point b being Calisto so since he would not enter there without Malia knowing something! that was the part you had left out, he must belong to someone and you said virgil/princeps and Calisto but forgot the bussiness owner cast of the vampire class

serioulsy... not sure if the devs understood what they did there... but
virgil/princeps = politicians/power currency= influence and votes
Calisto = the church/spirituality currency= legitimacy and piety
Malia = bussiness owner/economy currency = gold (and whores?)

so the question is whats missing?
 
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Arigon

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Aug 27, 2020
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or he is Malia thrall and the tool she used to set up a glass cannon just like Malia is Innana tool to act in creating the MC!
Interesting.
Tool yes.
Thralled Vampire possibly.
Thralled human. Not.
Malia's childe maybe? He is very Metrosexual..
Could be!?
 
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MercyHealer

Newbie
Jul 29, 2019
67
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Wait. So how the vampire lore in this game work? Do all vampires just fall unconscious during the night? In other vampire movies/book/games they usually still can operating during the day just fine. They just need to avoid sun light.
Vampires in this game universal seem very vulnerable. What stop hunters, human from killing them in their "sleep"? Other vampire can just hire human to kill their enemies vamps during the day too.
 
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Arigon

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Aug 27, 2020
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Wait. So how the vampire lore in this game work? Do all vampires just fall unconscious during the night? In other vampire movies/book/games they usually still can operating during the day just fine. They just need to avoid sun light.
Vampires in this game universal seem very vulnerable. What stop hunters, human from killing them in their "sleep"? Other vampire can just hire human to kill their enemies vamps during the day too.
So the vampires in this game fall into basic unconsciousness during daylight unless they are very powerful. If they are very powerful they can send visions to certain powerful members of their bloodline or closely related bloodlines.

As far as conscious physical action, that seems to be pretty unlikely for normal vampires. If it is possible for elders to rise during the day under duress, we have not seen that yet, nor have we seen any of the other vampires rise during daylight hours. The only things that alter that seems to be ritual magic, which may shorten the time needed to rest.

So, vampires need to have secret havens, and mortal guardians.
Peace
 
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Arigon

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Aug 27, 2020
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or he is Malia thrall and the tool she used to set up a glass cannon just like Malia is Innana tool to act in creating the MC!

well he picks the mc from point a to point b point a being Malia point b being Calisto so since he would not enter there without Malia knowing something! that was the part you had left out, he must belong to someone and you said virgil/princeps and Calisto but forgot the bussiness owner cast of the vampire class

serioulsy... not sure if the devs understood what they did there... but
virgil/princeps = politicians/power currency= influence and votes
Calisto = the church/spirituality currency= legitimacy and piety
Malia = bussiness owner/economy currency = gold (and whores?)

so the question is whats missing?
I did mention the possibility of other player we do not yet know..... but.

In order for Liam to function at the Temple, he must be approved of, by the Temple, meaning Calisto.

Which clan? Which faction?

We know of some very broad factions, and then some increasingly focused factions.

Inanna faction-
Ereshkigal faction-
The Temple-
Templars *one way or another, identified as a group (Tremere like, or Vizier Assamites)
Nos* one way or another identified as a group (Nosferatu like)
Wolf Boys* one way or another identified as a group (Gangrel like)
Not identified- Ventrue like- which would be Sharon, Roland.
Not identified- Brujah like- Marcius and his two bully boys
Not identified- Toreador like- Astrid and Malia maybe.
Princeps-
Virgil- probably not exactly the same as the Princeps, but probably pulling his strings.
Something called the Council, which Virgil references. This implies a level of governance above the Archons.
The various Archons
The various mini elders within each Archon's court.
Outsiders currently unknown.
Dare we consider the Skalds a faction? Lol?
So where does Liam fit for sure?
I am puzzling on this now.
Peace
 
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Dmob_6438

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Dec 17, 2020
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wow it’s crazy how the MC is growing more and more powerful in such a short time and I’m very curious on how this game will end. Also are we gonna see more sex scenes in the next update
 

cxx

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Nov 14, 2017
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wow it’s crazy how the MC is growing more and more powerful in such a short time and I’m very curious on how this game will end. Also are we gonna see more sex scenes in the next update
don't think there'll be more sex on next update.
 
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Aelgwenn

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Feb 17, 2020
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This thread is the best on this forum, i enjoy reading the theories (especially Arigon :p ) almost as much as playing the game.

As far as conscious physical action, that seems to be pretty unlikely for normal vampires. If it is possible for elders to rise during the day under duress, we have not seen that yet, nor have we seen any of the other vampires rise during daylight hours. The only things that alter that seems to be ritual magic, which may shorten the time needed to rest.
If i remember we saw Fabian visiting Mc and he was up VERY early, at a time where Mc and Sharon where "sleeping".
 
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NukaCola

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Jul 1, 2017
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Wait, there is someone who hate Sharon? I also didn't gift Astrid to mama Calisto but only because I thought you can have fun with her later. Not because Sharon.
 
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yltohawk

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Mar 19, 2019
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This thread is the best on this forum, i enjoy reading the theories (especially Arigon :p ) almost as much as playing the game.



If i remember we saw Fabian visiting Mc and he was up VERY early, at a time where Mc and Sharon where "sleeping".
Now ya done did it. Ego stroking is not allowed. We won't be able to put him back in the bottle now LOL.
 

Arigon

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Aug 27, 2020
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This thread is the best on this forum, i enjoy reading the theories (especially Arigon :p ) almost as much as playing the game.



If i remember we saw Fabian visiting Mc and he was up VERY early, at a time where Mc and Sharon where "sleeping".
Now ya done did it. Ego stroking is not allowed. We won't be able to put him back in the bottle now LOL.
I had to laugh at this post..a lot. Thanks for the compliment.... Bottles! What are these prisons known as bottles????????

Fabian uses blood magic similar to what the Tzimisce, Assamite Viziers, Giovanni, Cappadocians, and Tremere use in VtM. There might be some bloodlines neglected in that list, but those are the big hitters of blood magic in the game which is a large influence for the authors. The ability to control the amount of sleep you need is not limited to Fabian. Calisto and Cindy both were awake at reasonable times, and Calisto has demonstrated proficiency in ritual magic. By rights, within the context of how the authors are presenting the correlation of age and sleep *and lack of humanity, Calisto wouldn't actually wake up except to suck down some blood and crash again lol!

Finally things are coming together for a battle (not at war yet), this battle should have happened in ep-3 as climax ending.
The dev need to fix the game size per episode, only still images and text for separate episodes shouldn't be such big file size. Ep-4 Up-1 has barely got any content yet file size exceeded 500+Mb already, whereas there're countless games that fit animation, text, still images, gallery, music etc. from different episodes yet keep game file size practically manageable.
How the guys package the media and file size is not really my department, but I will ask the question.

The War started 13k years ago. It has been on slow cook ever since, with occasional flare ups. The need of having Temples is partly due to the war going on, so as to defend the great ones.

However, to take your meaning more practically, chapter 3 had it's climax and then it had it's transition to chapter 4. Climaxes for a chapter are not always at the end.

What will be going on for the next couple of updates?

Next update-combat. Almost every bit of it is consumed by the combat, which will have some different results based on earlier choices as I already have discussed earlier.

Following update will be one in which the aftermath of the combat is addressed. Then there will be some preparations for the next round of combat in the updates following that. Rebirth is going to be having some fairly epic violence, epic violence, and over the top violence. Such is the nature of vampire lords.

If I remember correctly, Liam visited MC at his house and proposed a deal he couldn't refuse, luring him to Callisto. However, as Fabian later told MC that nobody could imagine Callisto breeding again after so many years, so he didn't know if MC would be turned but that surely means Callisto has created vampires in the past, we don't know if they survived on their own though, as Fabian also warns about vampire elders that wouldn't hesitate to suck MC dry if he makes his sire ever known to them -> This in my opinion goes for Virgil and Princeps gang of elders who are aware of Callisto's mystical blood powers. I'm more curious about that drink Sharon had to ingest in order to prove her innocence before her archon appointment, some kind of blood ritual maybe.
View attachment 1747582
So far Fabian is the only elder that shows great restraint on his sleep, even could walk under indirect sun, as mentioned during his visit to MC, there was still light that evening as Andrew welcomed him, which means he travels for Scottstown during daytime with his city pet girls.
Another mysterious vamp is painted lady Zephyr, she is like whistling wind travelling with telepathy whispers. She's interesting as Sharon mentioned that monster in the woods was like a big whirlwind, her wounds clearly shows wolf-boy claws being used, unlike MC these claws are less dangerous.
So Liam making the offer to the MC and Laurie did have to do with the entertainment needed for some tense negotiations by some vampires in the neutral ground offered by Calisto at the Temple. However, there is a fairly reasonable and plausible theory that the selection of the MC for this job was set up by Malia, who had been observing the MC for some time, for Inanna. Further support for this can be found in dozens of posts in the thread. The selection was to place the MC adjacent to the great vampire Calisto, who, for reasons that literalists and theoreticians have debated.

Literalists think that she bred because she was bored. I have never subscribed to this view, and you can find my various arguments against this in literally dozens of posts.

Theoreticians think that it was deeper than ennui that drove Calisto to embrace the MC. Namely that she was acting on the subtle and subconscious commands from Inanna. My support and proposal of this theory are detailed in dozens of posts in this thread.

Fabian does not indicate that Calisto had bred again after having sired many childer and then stopped. The theory is that she bred once before, had a traumatic experience, and then refused to sire more vampires after that, until the MC. Now it could turn out to be false, and that she has sired more vampires than that, but I find it very unlikely. Every childe represents both power and risk. Power in that she would have an additional asset to potentially further her aims, and a threat as they would want her blood. Calisto is cagey and smart, though not infallible. She insists that her childer are bold, fearless, and willing to do what is necessary to increase their power. Arcas is such a case, and it was her first, and last before the MC. Arcas, *Virgil if I am correct, turned on his sire and she was nearly ended. She showed him too much too soon, and he was nearly a force potent enough to take her down. She is not making that same mistake with the MC, though frankly she probably should risk it as she does not realize the danger that she personally could be in if I am correct.

Zephir.... ah my beloved Zephir.
She didn't assault Sharon in the woods.
Calisto or one of her people did, to force Sharon to take the first drink towards thralldom to her childe. The wounds are extremely superficial and yet caused tremendous damage. The lackey of Marcius took just a scratch and was crying to his momma. Calisto most likely did the deed herself.
Various dozens of posts revolve around this. At one point, I strongly advocated that Astrid was male and flesh sculpted to look female and was Tzimisce like in her clan. I have since amended that part of my theory! :D

Regarding vampire elders sucking down the MC if they knew Calisto was his sire.
Virgil knows. He gains nothing by destroying the childe too soon as it might reveal his hand.
Fabian would gain a lot by doing so, but is ostensibly loyal to Calisto so he won't.
When first created, the other elders might have been able to pull it off.
Now? No, there are no "elders" in the city that could take the MC solo, and they would not want to share and thus would not gang up. Look up VtM Elysium on the creation of Elder vampires, and then the section on creating Elder powered childer vampires. The MC is as powerful or more powerful than any vampire in the city excepting Virgil, Calisto, and possibly Fabian and Cindy (Cindy is a stretch, but there is a reason she is the sole servant that attends the lady) **Note also that Cindy taught Frank, a powerful Nos, a lesson for snooping around the Temple. Cindy is one of Calisto's hands, the other being Fabian.

Fabian showed up immediately after sundown when there was possibly some waning light but not really. The remarkable part was how soon after sundown he showed up. As I mention further up in this post, blood magic is involved which allows both Fabian and Calisto, probably Cindy also, to rise early.

The blood Sharon drank at her investiture was Either Roland's blood, or Virgil's blood. If she allows herself to be thralled by either of them, it will be bad. Her best protection is the MC's blood, and the MC himself destroying the offender.

wow it’s crazy how the MC is growing more and more powerful in such a short time and I’m very curious on how this game will end. Also are we gonna see more sex scenes in the next update
See just above regarding why the MC is so powerful.

We have actually had one more sex scene than has been guaranteed in the entire Novel so far.
The next update is the combat in the cave, round 1.

I just don't get the Sharon hate. She's annoyingly self assured but she has done her best for the mc. That's also why I didn't want to send Astrid with the bitch that changed his life
Sharon hate is predicated on her stupidity. She is not just self assured but allows herself to be blinded by her own lack of knowledge, and worse, pushes it, or tries to, on the MC.

The fact is that Sharon is second in loyalty only to Laurie. She is gorgeous. She wants to have old fashioned love, well old fashioned vampire love lol, for the MC. She is not a bad girl. She doesn't really deserve hate, but she certainly is no longer doing him any favors. She needs to wise up and realize she is in love with a quasi elder vampire, the likes of which she has only recently met with her huge failure with Calisto.

Probably more than enough for a Saturday morning here in the ol' USA!
Peace gang
 

Dónaill

Newbie
Jan 25, 2022
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This beautiful little game got its teeth pretty deep into my neck. Amazing writing and really good visuals as well. Adult themes mixed in for good measure. Excellent VN.
 

Waynew91

Member
Dec 13, 2017
196
136
I'm having issues loading my episode 3 save to episode 4. Its saying I haven't finished 3 yet but I'm at the end, anyone have any idea what I should do?
 
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