VN Ren'Py Rebirth [Ep.5 Update 13] [LikesBlondes]

[Ayhsel]

How old would a ancient vamp like dream girl be, like how many years are we talking? would they have been around during the first major human civilizations (Mesopotamia, Egypt, Indus river valley, China)?

That is extremely lore dependent.

But if Calisto is reasonably at least 2000 years old and Artemis (gonna keep calling her that simply because we need a way to call her) is a myth even to her, she would reasonably be a few thousand years older. So if she is anywhere around 5000 years old, she should at least seen everything since Egypt and lot of Mesopotamia.

So most likely she has seen everything as long as she was awake, but maybe she was not around and was simply asleep. Again, this is also extremely lore dependent, by Merrick did suggest that old vampires are mostly sleeping if they even exist. Also, she could be asleep and still have a strong precognition, to still see all around the world going on and potentially even affect it, as she seems to be able to do with Frank at least. MC seems a bit more free from her total control/obsession.

She is probably the closer to a (un)living god you can be.

 

[DA22]

That is extremely lore dependent.

But if Calisto is reasonably at least 2000 years old and Artemis (gonna keep calling her that simply because we need a way to call her) is a myth even to her, she would reasonably be a few thousand years older. So if she is anywhere around 5000 years old, she should at least seen everything since Egypt and lot of Mesopotamia.

So most likely she has seen everything as long as she was awake, but maybe she was not around and was simply asleep. Again, this is also extremely lore dependent, by Merrick did suggest that old vampires are mostly sleeping if they even exist. Also, she could be asleep and still have a strong precognition, to still see all around the world going on and potentially even affect it, as she seems to be able to do with Frank at least. MC seems a bit more free from her total control/obsession.

She is probably the closer to a (un)living god you can be.

Yeah if Arigon's defense for her being the vampire that inspired the worship of Inanna would be correct, then we are starting to go back to quite close to early civilization and a vampire like that was likely already pretty old and powerful and entrenched before she could be that inspiration. So was likely not very young when that happened and already around for quite a while. So I would say 5000 years old is quite conservative as an estimate. Just like 2500 is more or less the minimum age for C if she would be the inspiration for those myths, not her max possible age.

 

[-Hex-]

How old would a ancient vamp like dream girl be, like how many years are we talking? would they have been around during the first major human civilizations (Mesopotamia, Egypt, Indus river valley, China)?

I'd say around 6000 years old, at least assuming this game is just inspired from WoD
Now if she was a literal WoD Antediluvian (all 3rd gen are) this would put her aroung 10000 years old, or more

 

[Ragnar]

why would you say that? she behaves royally and majestically, as of her appearance, she might have altered it to modern standards of beauty

you just want to have fun with VG

this is something that scares me. if she planned MC's embrace, how strong is the Him she wants MC to defeat ?

4th gen have some traits that reveal their age, i.e the way they speak or how dead they look.
Callisto looks alive enough to me.

 

[Arigon]

Ok,
Lots of good stuff. Let me say things I know for sure.
Cain/Caine and Lilith are not a part of the mythology of the setting. There is no Caine, There is no Lilith as Vampires.

Based on what I have shared with you all both recently and in the past, I was told

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Inanna is about 5-6000 years old (depending on the actual version of her you pick.) Yes Cradle of Civilization type stuff.
She is not a substitute for Lilith, as she was only one of several extremely ancient very powerful deities from that era. She is likely in some kind of Jyhad of her own.

One thing I can say- Mechanically, it is a lot of the World of Darkness. Lore wise it is more Pagan in it's origins than Hebrew or Christian, which WoD was. So again, no Cain/Caine. No Lilith. For that matter no Ann Rice Queen of the Damned. I think it is more like you have a lot of "Source" Vampires. Titans. Main Gods of Pantheons in those which have no Titan history. Those were the basis for the vampire clans we have in the game.

Some "Clans" are similar. Lordly Ventrue types, Tremere bastards types, Sneaky Ugly High Tech knowledge experts, and Rabble Marcius Brujah types. They are not called those things, but mechanically there are those similarities. For their origins and lore though, throw out the WoD canon universe as we are not in it. <-That is a fact, spoiler, whatever. There is no Caine as first generation. There are others.....and maybe a lot more than one.


Peace

 

[Ragnar]

Ok,
Lots of good stuff. Let me say things I know for sure.
Cain/Caine and Lilith are not a part of the mythology of the setting. There is no Caine, There is no Lilith as Vampires.

Based on what I have shared with you all both recently and in the past, I was told

Spoiler: Don't look if you don't wanna know something important

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Inanna is about 5-6000 years old (depending on the actual version of her you pick.) Yes Cradle of Civilization type stuff.
She is not a substitute for Lilith, as she was only one of several extremely ancient very powerful deities from that era. She is likely in some kind of Jyhad of her own.

One thing I can say- Mechanically, it is a lot of the World of Darkness. Lore wise it is more Pagan in it's origins than Hebrew or Christian, which WoD was. So again, no Cain/Caine. No Lilith. For that matter no Ann Rice Queen of the Damned. I think it is more like you have a lot of "Source" Vampires. Titans. Main Gods of Pantheons in those which have no Titan history. Those were the basis for the vampire clans we have in the game.

Some "Clans" are similar. Lordly Ventrue types, Tremere bastards types, Sneaky Ugly High Tech knowledge experts, and Rabble Marcius Brujah types. They are not called those things, but mechanically there are those similarities. For their origins and lore though, throw out the WoD canon universe as we are not in it. <-That is a fact, spoiler, whatever. There is no Caine as first generation. There are others.....and maybe a lot more than one.


Peace

Well, being of a lower generation doesn't mean the vampire in question has to be 2000-3000 years old. Generations are based on who was your Sire, i.e if Cain makes a vampire today that vampire will be a 2nd Gen neonate.
Anyways, Rebirth doesn't use the generetion power level at least so far and I think is better that way.
We just now the Princeps and Markus are more powerful than Sharon and Astrid, like we know Callisto must be someone as powerful as the Princeps or so it seems. She talked about Greek gods, so maybe she's 3.000years old, Who knows?
I think the most powerful being in the game is the Dream Vampire.

 

[Arigon]

Well, being of a lower generation doesn't mean the vampire in question has to be 2000-3000 years old. Generations are based on who was your Sire, i.e if Cain makes a vampire today that vampire will be a 2nd Gen neonate.
Anyways, Rebirth doesn't use the generetion power level at least so far and I think is better that way.
We just now the Princeps and Markus are more powerful than Sharon and Astrid, like we know Callisto must be someone as powerful as the Princeps or so it seems. She talked about Greek gods, so maybe she's 3.000years old, Who knows?
I think the most powerful being in the game is the Dream Vampire.

I have received pretty much direct confirmation of the age and generation of Calisto from Ptolemy and LikesBlondes, Ptolemy much more directly.

They ARE using generations and ages. They are not using Cain and the WoD setting. They are using some of the loosely grouped power sets certain clans have. This is all pretty much confirmed.

Vision Girl is by far the most powerful vampire we have pseudo met so far.(6k +/- years old and most likely 2nd or 3rd generation. She is NOT Calisto's sire-for sure.(confirmed by Ptolemy)) Calisto is second most powerful by a wide margin (4th gen, 2500-3000 years old, her sire may still live or may be dead. She has ties to Fabian, but is not of his clan, he appears to serve her, and finally, there is an unconfirmed but fairly decent chance that Virgil is Calisto's first and naughty naughty child, so..... Probably Virgil is next (5th generation, 2500 or so years old, but probably some significant time in torpor following losing his quest for Calisto's blood and quite likely as I said first and until our MC Calisto's only childe ((my theory))), followed by the MC 5th generation, and almost tailor made for the blood of Calisto.

I have it straight from the dev that he (the MC)will not be the superman of the story, but he is god damned tough! (bloodline and generation DO matter) then Fabian is pantheon related and low generation, and old. (5-6th gen and middle ages to Roman times likely).

Roland and the other punks are much further down the list. Kassandra is a mystery and could be much older and more powerful than she appears. Sharon is barely an Ancilla age wise, and probably 10th-11th generation. Most of the elders of the city are 10th to 8th, and 100-300 years old tops. Roland that piece of shit is probably 8th, maybe 7th. and is either Toreador like or possibly Ventrue. He is probably around 3-400 years old. He is NOT the most powerful member of his court.

In Summary-
Calisto is 2500ish years old. Greek Origin. 4th Generation. This has been pretty much directly confirmed. There is no Cain. There is no Lilith. There are probably several Cain type things that founded vampire lines. They are using the basic framework of VtM including generations and such, clans are loosely based on some analogs from VtM, but there are none that are exact clones.. This is what has been confirmed to 99% certainty.

Vision Girl speculations were and are that except for the following- As ancient and mythical as Calisto is to us mere mortals and modern vampires, Vision Girl is that for Calisto. That is for sure.

Anyhow I hope this helps with questions.
Peace

 

[Warscared]

so no Templar connection? pity could add some flavor to the story and open it up to far more people! even if in a flashback as in an introductory movie!

 

[Arigon]

so no Templar connection? pity could add some flavor to the story and open it up to far more people! even if in a flashback as in an introductory movie!

Templar would be down the line of a sister line. I am pretty firmly in the camp that thinks that Hekate/Hecate the Witch Goddess of Magic is the progenitor of the Templars. They would be distantly related at best, in my unconfirmed opinion.
If Inanna's sister is the goddess who becomes Hecate, which is a reasonable and discussed by Sumerian scholars, and she is directly served by Nymphs which she was, then there may be an even closer relationship behind those bloodlines, though Calisto is 2500-3000 years down the line, Fabian another 2000ish years down from her, (he may be a Methuselah in his own right, by age and possible generation as I suspect he is 5th to 7th generation and about a thousand years old.)
He could well be thralled to Calisto, or a very willing servant. He might be Vision Girl's servant, and is acting in the interest of Vision Girl, which is to help Calisto.

The MC probably will not be able to take any of the ancient ones down by himself, but he may tip the scale if Virgil is who I think he is. This will mean a showdown with Calisto, and the MC could make a difference in that, because if Virgil can do Calisto, then I think his next target would be Vision Girl/Inanna.

Peace

 

[DA22]

Templar would be down the line of a sister line. I am pretty firmly in the camp that thinks that Hekate/Hecate the Witch Goddess of Magic is the progenitor of the Templars. They would be distantly related at best, in my unconfirmed opinion.
If Inanna's sister is the goddess who becomes Hecate, which is a reasonable and discussed by Sumerian scholars, and she is directly served by Nymphs which she was, then there may be an even closer relationship behind those bloodlines, though Calisto is 2500-3000 years down the line, Fabian another 2000ish years down from her, (he may be a Methuselah in his own right, by age and possible generation as I suspect he is 5th to 7th generation and about a thousand years old.)
He could well be thralled to Calisto, or a very willing servant. He might be Vision Girl's servant, and is acting in the interest of Vision Girl, which is to help Calisto.

The MC probably will not be able to take any of the ancient ones down by himself, but he may tip the scale if Virgil is who I think he is. This will mean a showdown with Calisto, and the MC could make a difference in that, because if Virgil can do Calisto, then I think his next target would be Vision Girl/Inanna.

Peace

Yeah or Vision Girl is not even close, but there is something else beneath that little town that Sharon just became Archon of that MC has to deal with or take care of for VG, that might have to do with what you suspect about Virgil and would tip that scale or something else if you are wrong about Virgil. (The probably too easy solution might be VG is there and intends to feed MC some of her blood to strengthen him or maybe even Sharon further or turn Carmen/ Laurie ).

Then we of course have the Sharon line and conflict with Astrid, which is another main line until now and fact we know little about either and whether it is of importance that the old Archon of Sharon was introduced last update. (with a possible link to Andrew's daughter, if that was a chekov's gun and not a red herring or just some character background info)

 

[Arigon]

Yeah or Vision Girl is not even close, but there is something else beneath that little town that Sharon just became Archon of that MC has to deal with or take care of for VG, that might have to do with what you suspect about Virgil and would tip that scale or something else if you are wrong about Virgil. (The probably too easy solution might be VG is there and intends to feed MC some of her blood to strengthen him or maybe even Sharon further or turn Carmen/ Laurie ).

Then we of course have the Sharon line and conflict with Astrid, which is another main line until now and fact we know little about either and whether it is of importance that the old Archon of Sharon was introduced last update. (with a possible link to Andrew's daughter, if that was a chekov's gun and not a red herring or just some character background info)

Oh definitely.

I could be wrong about Virgil, and he may not end up being the Apex Antagonist.

Sharon's sire- almost no clue. It is not the Princep. It is not Marcius, as he is definitely a different more brutish bloodline like the Rabble version of Brujah. (I say that and then remember that some folks do not know, or did not read my explanation of bloodlines, but in VtM ((Vampire the Masquerade)) there are two distinct different types of Brujah. Those descendants of Brujah, and those descendants of Troile. Troile are the brutish rebels without a clue. Brujah, True Brujah are like Spock from Star Trek. Very brilliant, thinking, cold and calculating, and they can control Time!!!
Sharon is of the same bloodline as Eloise, but who her sire is remains to be seen. It is not Astrid though. They are distinctly different. Astrid was Sharon's mentor and lover for a while though.

Southern Archon- We do not know a lot, but it would be fabulous if he turned out to be Sharon's Sire. His introduction was expected at the Investment Ceremony, and his comments about Sharon being named an archon make it unlikely she is his childe, but it would still be fabulous. Andrew is definitely going to start sharpening his axe and fueling up the flame thrower. That Southern Motherfucker is going to pay. We might even get to see Andrew's daughter and wife. It would be hard core, mega hard core if he had to kill them to protect Sharon..... but damn what a great story That would make!

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Peace to all!

 

[DA22]

Oh definitely.

I could be wrong about Virgil, and he may not end up being the Apex Antagonist.

Sharon's sire- almost no clue. It is not the Princep. It is not Marcius, as he is definitely a different more brutish bloodline like the Rabble version of Brujah. (I say that and then remember that some folks do not know, or did not read my explanation of bloodlines, but in VtM ((Vampire the Masquerade)) there are two distinct different types of Brujah. Those descendants of Brujah, and those descendants of Troile. Troile are the brutish rebels without a clue. Brujah, True Brujah are like Spock from Star Trek. Very brilliant, thinking, cold and calculating, and they can control Time!!!
Sharon is of the same bloodline as Eloise, but who her sire is remains to be seen. It is not Astrid though. They are distinctly different. Astrid was Sharon's mentor and lover for a while though.

Southern Archon- We do not know a lot, but it would be fabulous if he turned out to be Sharon's Sire. His introduction was expected at the Investment Ceremony, and his comments about Sharon being named an archon make it unlikely she is his childe, but it would still be fabulous. Andrew is definitely going to start sharpening his axe and fueling up the flame thrower. That Southern Motherfucker is going to pay. We might even get to see Andrew's daughter and wife. It would be hard core, mega hard core if he had to kill them to protect Sharon..... but damn what a great story That would make!

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Peace to all!

Well that poem might hold some of the answer to where vampires come from in the mythology of the world or Rebirth, who knows. Well I guess MC is not really overpowered whatever happens with him in next few chapters qua growth if he needs to deal with that or a remnant of the old mad gods of Lovecraft.

 

[BigStuffedTiger]

How old would a ancient vamp like dream girl be, like how many years are we talking? would they have been around during the first major human civilizations (Mesopotamia, Egypt, Indus river valley, China)?

4,000-6,000 years old if we're using the same biblical time scale as the inspirational material, with a Caine-like original vampire being turned at the tippy top at 6,000 years old. If we're using an acheoological time scale the first urban cities perfect for vampire habitation were built about 6500 years ago (there are references to Antedeluvians living in the "first city" with Caine in Mesopotamia in the inspirational material), while smaller settlements that today would be considered small towns go back as far as 8,000 years (some vampires from one clan in the inspirational material say the "first city" was more of a cave than anything resembling a city). If the first vampire was a hunter/gatherer figure like Caine, and we're not trying to stick with a biblical timeline, she could potentially be even older than 8,000 years.

 

[Arigon]

4,000-6,000 years old if we're using the same biblical time scale as the inspirational material, with a Caine-like original vampire being turned at the tippy top at 6,000 years old. If we're using an acheoological time scale the first urban cities perfect for vampire habitation were built about 6500 years ago (there are references to Antedeluvians living in the "first city" with Caine in Mesopotamia in the inspirational material), while smaller settlements that today would be considered small towns go back as far as 8,000 years (some vampires from one clan in the inspirational material say the "first city" was more of a cave than anything resembling a city). If the first vampire was a hunter/gatherer figure like Caine, and we're not trying to stick with a biblical timeline, she could potentially be even older than 8,000 years.

She originated in one of the rising major civilizations, approximately 6-7k years ago. Caine and biblical type stuff does Not apply. That needs to be tossed out of all our considerations. There may well be several Caine like figures which were the original set of vampires, or there may have only been one that would have been a super Caine like being, spreading his version of the 1st generation vampires around.

I am truly trying to get this across. Mechanics for WoD are more or less imported. History of vampirism is not. So no Caine references please. We all need to forget that, myself included.
No First City
No Second City
No Antediluvian revolt. (well at least not like the World of Darkness fluff has)
The being we were calling Artemis, and I am calling Inanna now is 6500ish years old. She is not a Caine level vampire, but may be the childe of one of those. She is not Calisto's sire. No one in the city, other than Calisto, Fabian, and possibly Virgil are close to the MC's generation/blood potency. Vision Girl/Inanna is the same jump in power level over Calisto, as Calisto is over say what the Main Character might be in 2000 years if he does not seek peace in torpor.

In my theory, Virgil spent a long time in torpor following the battle with his sire (Calisto) and while he is super tough, he is not the god he could be as a result. That gives the MC a chance in taking him down or at least helping Calisto do it and surviving.
MC as is can probably deal doom to most of the vampires in the city, perhaps the first one I wish to test that on is Roland.
Peace.

 

[pavlogrk]

Damn I missed Laurie in this update it was okay a little short especially the scene in the gym she just kind of leapt at us and that was it I was expecting a bit more of a show with all these vamp fighting skills

a link for the commander mormont?

 

[FunFuntomes]

(with a possible link to Andrew's daughter, if that was a chekov's gun and not a red herring or just some character backgro

the gun will fire for sure...

Andrew is definitely going to start sharpening his axe and fueling up the flame thrower. That Southern Motherfucker is going to pay. We might even get to see Andrew's daughter and wife. It would be hard core, mega hard core if he had to kill them to protect Sharon..... but damn what a great story That would make!

what if the southern archon turns Andrew's daughter and unleashes her frienzied on Sharon. As it was illustrated by Carmen, the eyes don't work if there's something blocking them. and the frenzy would block all reason. And it could turn into a kill or be killed moment where Sharon has to kill the girl she babysat... unless secret whispers can put her out of the frenzy.

 

[DA22]

the gun will fire for sure...

what if the southern archon turns Andrew's daughter and unleashes her frienzied on Sharon. As it was illustrated by Carmen, the eyes don't work if there's something blocking them. and the frenzy would block all reason. And it could turn into a kill or be killed moment where Sharon has to kill the girl she babysat... unless secret whispers can put her out of the frenzy.

That would imply that the Southern Archon would be an enemy already. Though he did banish Sharon for an infringement of the rules, it for sure was likely not the worst punishment he could have chosen for her I suspect or could have gotten away with if he for sure hated or disliked her.

He could just be just a stickler for rules or possibly he was sympathetic and let Sharon get off as easily as he could and has just made sure the daughter would not become a problem and would hand her easily over to a fellow archon for a serious boon or got attached to the daughter or she was turned long ago and just lives in that archon's domain. So many possibilities.

Or to put it in other words, unless he has something personal against Sharon and even if he has with him not knowing where her meteoric rise comes from it would not be super wise to make her an enemy and if you would have an easy bargaining chip to make someone better disposed to you he might use that. He did not seem that surprised she made Archon that early as most and may know more as we do likely about her. Even taking all that away he is in a way in the same position as the princeps with even less power and no Virgil behind him, wondering.

 

[Mormont]

a link for the commander mormont?

It's not a game it's custom made

 

[pavlogrk]

It's not a game it's custom made

meaning just a gif image?

 

[Arigon]

meaning just a gif image?

This is not a porn novel. It is a vampire novel with some nudity, a couple of sex scenes but they are not even the point of the game. It is an adult novel as it deals with Mature topics, but not a fuckfest.