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DA22

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Fabian however might not do MC any free favors anymore if the two girls didn't make it alive out of Calisto's dining room

one thing I was hoping you could ponder on is what E talked about: she told MC to embrace the Crimson Path.

that would make a total of 4 (5 if Astrid joins the group) vampires, that's a coterie big enough to take down a werewolf, not sure why the devs would add one so late in the story.

I'd argue that MC scratching her cheek, made her direct all her ire at him. even in her weakened state that wasn't enough to hurt her but it was enough to make her focus solely on MC giving the others the time to escape.

One thing setting MC apart is the secret whispers power, it seems to be able to influence people even against their nature, so perhaps all MC could do would be to make one of the sisters slow down for a fraction of a second.

But all those are things we don't need to worry about till they happen... the imminent problem is Laurie's basic vampire training; her social skills are on par with Sharon so there's nothing the arcon can teach her, except for how to use those eye things powers , if Laurie unlocks them. And Laurie would still have to go through stealth and combat training, with Marric gone, MC could fill in that role, after all he learned everything there was to know, but as of combat... this is where it gets tricky, Elise would be the first choice, but she works for Virgil and the less information he has the better and Sharon now is an Arcon so she should be careful when handing out boons. so that leaves us with either Fabian (we know he was a knight) or MC. Currently Fabian could be ill-disposed towards the group but maybe traing Laurie will soften him a bit and he'll agree she was worth those 2 deaths. MC certainly became a decent fighter, but his provess relies on his powers rather than expertise.
Yeah that last was why I was thinking as Astrid as a snack for either Sharon or Laurie, just for starters. :p

Let us be honest, Sharon seems to be weak as shit for the purposes of this game, (even if she might well be in potential up there with the other archons out there if she had not restrained herself and she might stop that after the latest revelations, but even then she is still less as 100 years old and Laurie is even weaker as her as her childe. Not really equipped to handle likely an over a 1000 years old Virgil or Fabian or the Princeps or help with that if Virgil is not Arcas or related to him as Arigon thinks. Let alone if Virgil is Arcas himself. Only MC with the dagger might from that group have a chance. Even Carmen as his childe would be way weaker as him and a newborn) and if even Sharon's yellow eye power is nothing to special, well then her only role is support and LI when comes to a fight and Laurie will be no better when have to go up against anyone beyond Marcius, even with a power up from Astrid. Without that they might well be more of a liability even in a fight with Marcius and his allies, let alone what that coterie might have to face later on. :p
 
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FunFuntomes

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Yeah that last was why I was thinking as Astrid as a snack for either Sharon or Laurie, just for starters. :p

Let us be honest, Sharon seems to be weak as shit for the purposes of this game, (even if she might well be in potential up there with the other archons out there if she had not restrained herself and she might stop that after the latest revelations, but even then she is still less as 100 years old and Laurie is even weaker as her as her childe. Not really equipped to handle likely an over a 1000 years old Virgil or Fabian or the Princeps or help with that if Virgil is not Arcas or related to him as Arigon thinks. Let alone if Virgil is Arcas himself. Only MC with the dagger might from that group have a chance. Even Carmen as his childe would be way weaker as him and a newborn) and if even Sharon's yellow eye power is nothing to special, well then her only role is support and LI when comes to a fight and Laurie will be no better when have to go up against anyone beyond Marcius, even with a power up from Astrid. Without that they might well be more of a liability even in a fight with Marcius and his allies, let alone what that coterie might have to face later on. :p
to be fair, all the fights so far were against stronger oponents, with the exception of "bootleg hunter" and Merrick, and even against the feral babe (she should've been part of the harem) the group won only because Laurie, the weakest of all, shot her in the head
 
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Hildegardt

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“God Created Men and Sam Colt Made Them Equal!”
Good point actually. Imagine DBZ, where the power levels are set in stone. Shit would be boring af.
Maybe Laurie should get into the hyperbolic time chamber to practice her Gun Kata and go even further beyond.

That's a similar point to why I think Sharon shouldn't be underestimated. At the beginning of the game I felt like she was depicted as a competend schemer. That's not something you get injected into your blood, but rather something you've got to practice.
 

Arigon

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True and that would be as much true for C and Arcas (if last is in game likely) and they tried to go one one one or even team on one with either sister. One reason why I try to look for how MC and his coterie could make a difference, Arigon seems to shoot down the yellow eyes power as being not that rare, so what might it be beyond the vampire slaying sword +20 the Temple may hold, Remember they are there to either facilitate or stop the rise of one, both or either sister. I am still not 100% convinced either C or the Temple is team I and they might have access to something even the sisters would not like depending on who started that temple.). :p

Well after the meeting underground pretty unlikely MC is a rebirth of one of or both old sisters lover and can be a bridge. She did not recognize him for sure, so I guess any threesome with both sisters will be at best as a blood bag slave to them. :p So either we are left with a situation where MC and his coterie somehow swing it in favor of one sister by something seemingly insignificant, but enough for the other sister to take advantage I suspect. Just a fraction of a second might do it if both sisters are very equal in power.

Other option is that MC is in the end is just an observer and we follow the story of the rise from his pov and he will have no impact on that in the end or any influence who will win, if either will. Might seem not very satisfying to us as players, but with the power differentials that does make sense. In the end even C would be just a blood bag to either of the sisters, a very sweet one considering the other vampiric options around and if dear Arcas is around and still obsessed with his mommy, well he will be almost as sweet and if would succeed in defeating mommy be desirable blood bag number one for either sister. :p Even if he thought he was invincible, well he also plays in another league now and if has cunningly hid himself for 4 millennia while hunting Mommy might be wise enough to run like hell. hell it is not even impossible if I had C create Mc just as bloodbag for her and the protecting she did was just to make sure her sister would not feed on him first. :p

Just to annoy Arigon a bit, what if Arcas would not be after Mommy, but after Mc. With his ego he might dislike no longer being the only only childe of C and he is what happened to every other childe C ever might have had. Would make him quite the jealous character though. :p

Also we still have that little loose end of the attack on Sharon at start, he or she should still be around somewhere, most sense makes C indeed or maybe even Arcas if he noticed a brother had risen unexpectedly or Fabian told him. Question would be why he did not take out MC in that case if after C while MC still super weak, maybe arrogance and wanting to train him a bit before harvesting him, that would probably hold for a few more centuries for Mc though, before he would even start to see MC as a real threat. E and I can likely be dismissed as options though for that attack, so who was it? I tend to suspect now it will be more related to the archons subplot where Mc can shine and show some ass kicking skills to make us players feel better about him. :p
:p
The power that Sharon is using is not rare amongst certain breeds of vampires. Calisto demonstrated the eye power as well, so either it is in the bloodline, or she learned it from a snack or teacher along the way. Amongst other vampires, it is of course a holy grail type thing. Marcius would misuse the living shit out of it. Even Sharon is becoming more "expedient" in her usage of it. Think what some shit like Astrid or Marcius would do?

Arcas could indeed be after the MC except he was already in place, in the city. So If he is Virgil or Virgil is him, then it does not make sense to have him simply target the MC. If he wanted to do that, he could have relatively easily forced Marcius to turn him over to his custody and drained him dry. I don't think he would really want to wait for him to grow a bit. Killing him, if that was his goal, would send a message to Mommy, and I think that he does not want that to happen until he is absolutely ready.

I am pretty convinced Calisto did the attack in the woods, since I can't have a gender bending Tzimisce in the game to do it. She had a motive, which does go a long way, if true, to eliminate the whole boredom argument, and that is that she knew how hard to hit Sharon to put her down, but not out, forcing the MC to feed her blood.

Final Battle- Prediction, not spoiler-
The two Goddesses will be doing Ragnarök shit in the background, and the MC will have a furball of a battle of his own to attend to, which may be assisting Calisto, or might be running interference for her or even for Inanna. I think the MC will be aware of the fight going on in the background, and yet consumed by his own battles which have to be won.

Sadly, I too had to give up on our Goddess or her sister giving us some loving, or even blood. We are mere tools at best, blood bags at worst, and far far beneath their notice otherwise. Certainly not worth their attention for carnal delights. They just don't really give enough of a shit for any of their followers, beyond their own deific needs.

I agree that even Calisto can only have a minor effect in a physical battle, but she is a sorcerer and a decently powerful piece on the game table. I think she can have an effect on things, which is why we will need to protect her. Probably not that she could really do more than give Inanna a slight edge, but that could make the difference in that battle. Also denying that kind of advantage to Ereshkigal would be desirable.



Your "main character" can die in this update if you haven't specced correctly.

The MC isn't the big badass of the game.
Definitely a truth.
He will be a bad ass, from a certain perspective, and he will affect the story, but he is not going to be defeating goddesses, and certainly not affecting them directly due to his vampiric might! Their other pawns though, he can affect their outcomes....

Fabian however might not do MC any free favors anymore if the two girls didn't make it alive out of Calisto's dining room

one thing I was hoping you could ponder on is what E talked about: she told MC to embrace the Crimson Path.

that would make a total of 4 (5 if Astrid joins the group) vampires, that's a coterie big enough to take down a werewolf, not sure why the devs would add one so late in the story.

I'd argue that MC scratching her cheek, made her direct all her ire at him. even in her weakened state that wasn't enough to hurt her but it was enough to make her focus solely on MC giving the others the time to escape.

One thing setting MC apart is the secret whispers power, it seems to be able to influence people even against their nature, so perhaps all MC could do would be to make one of the sisters slow down for a fraction of a second.

But all those are things we don't need to worry about till they happen... the imminent problem is Laurie's basic vampire training; her social skills are on par with Sharon so there's nothing the arcon can teach her, except for how to use those eye things powers , if Laurie unlocks them. And Laurie would still have to go through stealth and combat training, with Marric gone, MC could fill in that role, after all he learned everything there was to know, but as of combat... this is where it gets tricky, Elise would be the first choice, but she works for Virgil and the less information he has the better and Sharon now is an Arcon so she should be careful when handing out boons. so that leaves us with either Fabian (we know he was a knight) or MC. Currently Fabian could be ill-disposed towards the group but maybe traing Laurie will soften him a bit and he'll agree she was worth those 2 deaths. MC certainly became a decent fighter, but his provess relies on his powers rather than expertise.
Crimson Path is the servitude of being one of her blood slaves.... at least that is my opinion.

No werewolves as far as I know or could predict, and even if there was one introduced, it would shred all of Scottstown except the MC pretty handily. I think the mechanic from White Wolf is not necessarily 100% represented here, so Rage, which is the game changer for Garou, might not apply.

I spared the blood dolls of Fabian.

I guess I will say this. I only have 2 saves. I only "play" one save. I have the second save for QC purposes if there is a path I need to look at for the guys.
My Canon Save-
Stealth 29
Charisma 32
Prowess 41
I have Invisibility, Whispers, Claws, Vicious Strength, Visions. There are meta abilities with no score that all the vampires get like enhanced senses and the ability to attract attention from across the room.

I am taking the love path with Carmen. I had enough good will for Sharon to save Laurie. I had claws, the strength and I gave up Astrid so I had the dagger. Both Carmen and Laurie are marked and thus I returned the blood dolls to Fabian.
I had the trust of the Nos so Markus told me his story.
I did think about killing my sire when first meeting her, but you know, in a hot MILF choke sex kind of way.
I restricted Laurie's consumption all times except once when it was a luxury for her.
I let Sharon completely brain fuck Ivy... part of me, semi, sorta,.... Naw. I am good with that.

With that being said, i wonder how will this game will end considering MC and Laurie are both vampires and cave map girl(I forgot her name) got thrall and the Nos are gone
Ivy is Cave Girl
Well, it is going to end with Ragnarök
We just need to make sure we are on the winning side for that.

As for the repercussions of the Nos leadership getting mauled... that is going to bring some heat, and possibly Ass Beating possibilities for the MC to hand out as the Archon Sharon's Enforcer.... or as the Archon... or as Princeps.... but for sure as Calisto's favorite childe!

Peace
 

FunFuntomes

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I gave up Astrid so I had the dagger.
when it comes to Astrid my MC is like a vampire rick astley, he'll never gonna give her up.
Both Carmen and Laurie are marked and thus I returned the blood dolls to Fabian.
I told Calisto the blood dolls shouls suffice.
I restricted Laurie's consumption all times except once when it was a luxury for her.
I let her drink all the blood she wanted.
I let Sharon completely brain fuck Ivy... part of me, semi, sorta,.... Naw. I am good with that.
hell naw, Sharon still has some explaining for that
 
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Avaron1974

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As for the repercussions of the Nos leadership getting mauled... that is going to bring some heat, and possibly Ass Beating possibilities for the MC to hand out as the Archon Sharon's Enforcer.... or as the Archon... or as Princeps.... but for sure as Calisto's favorite childe!
I'm pretty sure we'll be acting as Sharon's enforcer when dealing with the Nos but i'm also, at a really rough guess, 75% sure we'll be Archon at some point.

I'm pretty sure Calisto wants us in that role but because we're so young it would have raised too many eyebrows and brought too much attention to give it straight to him so she used Sharon as a placeholder.

I know that cheapens Sharons role but i'm also pretty sure she isn't going to last much longer.

3 things i'm willing to go out on a limb for....

1. Carmen getting turned by MC. I don't know whether it will be to increase his own power base when he takes over as Archon. Mainly because she'd make a far more reliable right hand than Laurie. We'll also need a lot of muscle going into the final fight. It could also be a Laurie situation where they get hit hard and it's either turning her if on her route or her dying if not.

2. MC taking over as Archon, pretty sure he'll take over from Marcius though rather than a small town. I think that will probs come after bitch slapping the Nos back down once the rest of the vamp community realise he's no pup.

3. Sharon dying. I just don't see her making it to the end. She's made far too many crappy judgement calls, ignored everything the MC said until it was too late and tried to stand up to a vampire thousands of years older than her because her ego got in the way.

Don't get me wrong, I adore Sharon and if this was a full romance, Vampire Diaries, happy ever after tale then she'd be my first choice for spending our centuries never ageing together ...... however girls a dumbass. There are times she should know better and times she makes too many mistakes. She is too soft on Astrid after she turned is over to hunters. It's only the fact those very hunters were amateur as all hell that we're not dead.

I adore her but she's a liability and, sadly, expendable.

One i'm unsure of is Fabian. I think he has potential to backstab but I also think that will depend on the blood dolls. If they die, he turns. If not he stays buddy buddy.
 

FunFuntomes

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She's made far too many crappy judgement calls, ignored everything the MC said until it was too late and tried to stand up to a vampire thousands of years older than her because her ego got in the way.
she also had a reality check from Calisto, so things might change
 

frogbert

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Arigon Thank you for your detailed reply. Now that you've explained your reasoning, I and others can meaningfully reply to your reasoning. That's the difference between a thread that's about sharing ideas, and a thread that devolves into a circlejerk. I'm not going to respond to any more of this business except to note that if one tells someone that what they're talking about doesn't matter, it is quite ridiculous to play at being the victim when it is simply turned around on them.

That bit of nastiness aside, now that you've put your reasoning to ink I am a bit less skeptical but some issues occur to me:

Is our Calisto the Calisto? Keep in mind that just because we've only seen vampires, doesn't actually mean that everything supernatural is a vampire. Our Calisto can read Greek mythology too, and may have chosen to identify with the nymph Calisto because of her own bear-related powers.
Thinking back a few chapters, going to the Skalds was a major plot event and, as many here complained at the time, they wasted almost the entire time with rubbish about viruses and ergot hallucinations and wine storage. It's especially telling, though, that the few things they did say, however, all related to Calisto and specifically militated against her identification with the Greek myth. Firstly, that they tell us that vampires are "mortal men, elevated by the Gods to serve in their wars." Of course, the Calisto was said to be a nymph, not a goddess, but neither did she recruited to fight anyone, and if Zeus is not a vampire there's no reason to think that Calisto was transformed into anything but an ordinary bear. Secondly, when asked about the name "Calisto," they indicate that there's nothing special about it despite admitting to knowing more about the Temple than they're willing to say.
You say that Calisto must have been a priestess of Hera because she doesn't look like a young virgin. Actually, Hesiod specifically says that she was a virgin priestess of Artemis (until Zeus tore that shit up, anyhow). If our Calisto doesn't look like the nymph Calisto should, it's very likely that that's because they aren't the same person.

Virgil/Arcas:
I'm puzzled at the assertion that Roland was demonstrated to be a tool of Virgil at the investiture. Because he was making snide comments about his boss while sitting next to MC? Nah. He was deferential to Roland at every point. Your tool doesn't tell you to go fetch a drink, especially not in front of some shitheel fledgling. I'd say there were two things going on here: Virgil's massive ego was irritated about being told to fetch a drink, and secondly it was yet another show of intimidation to the MC. By putting down the Princeps in front of the MC he's essentially daring him to agree or disagree or really respond in any way. If he had, Virgil would have smacked him down because talking about the Priceps like that is something that Virgil can do but MC can't. It's a tried and true intimidation tactic. I've seen it used in various contexts many times. Virgil then switches gears and does MC the small kindness of inviting Andrew over to sit with them, despite what his underlings had said earlier. He planned that in advance, of course. The overall purpose of the interaction between Virgil/Roland and the MC/Sharon was pretty clear to me: they were telling them "I don't know why you're a player all of a sudden, I don't care that you beat Marcius, we can maybe be allies but don't get any ideas about doing the same to me or you're toast."
Even if Virgil is Arcas, I don't see why you think is Arcas out to get his mother in the first place. The whole point of Hera turning Calisto into a bear was to trick him into killing his own mother, the myths say nothing about him having it in for her. Because he's obsessed with diablerizing her? I haven't seen any reason at all to believe that's true much less bet my dick on it.
Another problem with this theory is that you have said that the devs assured you that the MC will be in "top four" vampires. If someone else is close to Calisto in power, it doesn't make any sense to talk about a top four rather than a top five.

Looking forward to reading further thoughts about this :)
 
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frogbert

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3. Sharon dying. I just don't see her making it to the end. She's made far too many crappy judgement calls, ignored everything the MC said until it was too late and tried to stand up to a vampire thousands of years older than her because her ego got in the way.

Don't get me wrong, I adore Sharon and if this was a full romance, Vampire Diaries, happy ever after tale then she'd be my first choice for spending our centuries never ageing together ...... however girls a dumbass. There are times she should know better and times she makes too many mistakes. She is too soft on Astrid after she turned is over to hunters. It's only the fact those very hunters were amateur as all hell that we're not dead.

I adore her but she's a liability and, sadly, expendable.
Could be, but it's also possible that her mistakes and stubbornness are really just setting the stage for her growth as a character. There are a lot of possible subplots swirling around her: Astrid's fate is still unresolved, and we still don't know what their relationship was exactly. Is Astrid Sharon's vamp mommy? Was Andrew telling us the literal truth in the last ep, that she's his child and not just his babysitter? Is Andrew's daughter dead or has someone taken her to be their thrall or even blood doll?
She's been given a lot to think about after first having the rug pulled out from under her by Calisto and then having her nos friends turn on her. That alliance was a major source of power for her before MC came along and losing Markus now makes her even more dependent on MC than she already was.
We'll just have to see where LB&Ptolemy decide to take things.
 

DA22

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she also had a reality check from Calisto, so things might change
And one from E, yeah if Sharon would not see some light now she is a lost cause, then again her remarks show she did notice now there is more out there as she ever hoped when just became a vamp. :p Question though is what her role will be if survives, it seems will be mainly LI and support with maybe a bit of own story if she was turned by one of the archons, princeps or possibly even Virgil in case he is not Arcas and maybe some dark back story. (Which would still likely make him the number one threat to MC as he is likely a pretty old vamp anyway, just it would mean MC might have two very dangerous opponents coming cause I do suspect Arcas will have a role :p)

One theory I had was that I might have been using Sharon somehow and maybe hid a part of herself in her, seems very unlikely though with lack of strength of Sharon and the sisters seeming to be way less human to even care about something like that.
 
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FunFuntomes

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One theory I had was that I might have been using Sharon somehow and maybe hid a part of herself in her, seems very unlikely though with lack of strength of Sharon and the sisters seeming to be way less human to even care about something like that.
if we extrapolate the truth from what Astrid said, it seems Sharon is supressing her true nature, and she used to be more brutal. also Merric said, that inside Sharon is just as repulsive as the Nos on the outside.
 
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c3p0

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Don't happen. If any of them will fuck you, you would be very much only their tool for their pleasure and most likely you will end up entirely dead.
Even if you fuck Calisto the false way she will literally break you in two halve - or let Cindy do her the faviour.
 

Arigon

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Several things.
Not going to quote them. It gets messy and hard to keep my place :D

Calisto-
So Calisto the Nymph/Vampire was created in 2,500 BCE. There are various clues to her origin throughout the story, revolving around the temple, her title, and other hints given in what I will refer to as denials and confirmations from discussions with the Devs.
She is that Calisto. I wrote a rather lengthy "paper" to the devs, and we had a nice chat about it. As a result of all my theory mongering with them, I was offered my "position" to work with them doing QC type work. I also am an occasional sounding board, and sometimes just interesting what if kinds of conversations. I do have spoiler level knowledge on Calisto as a result of our conversation which confirmed theories.

There was a time when we here on the board thought that Artemis was our Vision Girl. As a result of that conversation, and a lot of feverish searching, when the dev dropped a random comment, I ended up betting my sack that our Vision Girl was Inanna. That was forever ago.

Remember that the myths are just that, a myth upon which the developers are painting a picture. We went through the gyrations of Virgin Priestess and MILF and Artemis and all of that. Truly too much to recount all right here. There are divergences with the myths, which vampires would of course account for, and there are divergences which vampires can't account for. What is most interesting, at least for me, is that they are making their own myth fit into a general framework of historical mythology. No copyright infringements, no plagiarism. They are creating their myth with a hint or more than a hint, of "realism."

All of that said, it is not a 100% match for what history records, but it, like VtM is the inspiration for their own mythos.

The Roland/Virgil dynamic really plays out differently I think than perhaps you are perceiving it. No one, even a best friend, can disrespect the Princeps in the hearing of other members of the court, as that would basically be the same thing as calling the Prince of a VtM game out. You don't do that, certainly not at an "event" that he is hosting. Virgil is far too cavalier to be the servant.

As for the Myth vs a Vampire version of it, yes it is true that Arcas was tricked into hunting his momma bear, but Vampires do not really play that way.. I think the literal 100% transliteration of the myth is not going to help you in this. Loosen the grips a bit and remember that we are trying to guess how a Vampire fits within the dev's Mythos, not how the Deity literally fits into a World Religion class... though the World Religion class could give us clues and hints.

It is my nap time so I will finish with this...... and it is fun.

The Devs assured me that by the end of the AVN the MC would be in the 4th most powerful vampire...........
That is a subtle difference, but very telling.

Does that mean even in defeat, both Goddesses survive, Calisto, and the MC?
One Goddess, One New Player, Calisto, the MC? Some other permutation?
Not sure, but if I am guessing, I think one Goddess goes back for a nap, one stays up and wreaks hell on earth, Calisto, and the MC........

Good comments all!
More stuff on other comments later. I am going into my daytime sleep death
Peace
 
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FunFuntomes

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Don't happen. If any of them will fuck you, you would be very much only their tool for their pleasure and most likely you will end up entirely dead.
Even if you fuck Calisto the false way she will literally break you in two halve - or let Cindy do her the faviour.
but what if MC is the reborn first childe of Inana kiled by E out of jealousy
 

FunFuntomes

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The Devs assured me that by the end of the AVN the MC would be in the 4th most powerful vampire...........
That is a subtle difference, but very telling.
if I have to take a wild guess... going from 4th to 1st...
4th MC once he defeats and snacks on Virgil, Roland and other arcons
3rd Calisto,
2nd the sister that wins the fight
1st the one that made I and E, the story might end with MC taking a cab, with a sumerian looking taxi driver asking MC if he found what he's been looking for in life.
 

c3p0

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The Devs assured me that by the end of the AVN the MC would be in the 4th most powerful vampire...........
So going with that, I can only see some variants:
1)
  1. Vampire Goddess Sister
  2. Other Vampire Goddess Sister
  3. Callisto
  4. MC
2)
  1. One of the Vampire Goddess Sister
  2. Callisto
  3. Either of Fabian, Cindy, Virgila aka Arcas aka Plublius (?) aka first childe of Calisto, first childe of Calisto
  4. MC
3)
  1. One of the Vampire Goddess Sister
  2. Callisto
  3. Some other badass vampire not know yet
  4. MC
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4.10 star(s) 194 Votes