VN Ren'Py Rick and Morty: Another Way Home [r3.9] [Night Mirror]

[aaronminus]

You do really comprehensive reviews. I like how you explain your reasoning as well. It's kind of funny how something trivial can sometimes can take people out of the moment.

Like on Day 10 when the dialog was talking about "buttons popping off" and I spent a least a minute thinking I had misread the scene because Unity was able to put her shirt back together perfectly despite buttons popping off, lol. But if the uniform just "unsnaps" or "comes unsnapped" then the scene works as intended. One of the best part of Renpy seems to be that people can basically rewrite anything they want to make it match their own headcanon!

I’m glad you think so! My initial fear was that i’d be creating a lot more work and/or crossing a line (Grammar/Prose toes the border of an objective science and an art). My perspective to make sure I don’t go to far and run away with the farm is to try to find the best way for the game to express itself in what’s already there, rather than fiddle around and, as you say, create headcanon. I’ve also tried to give Night Mirror multiple options when appropriate, a lot of this stuff is not “my way or the highway”.

As a reader, i’m actually not that pedantic and it wasn’t like my casual playthroughs of the game made me stop all the time and say “that’s wrong” or anything. I just like the game enough that i’d like to help in the only way my skillset provides. Night Mirror, feedback is appreciated if i’m doing anything that’s explicitly unhelpful with my suggestions. For now i’ll just stay the course

 

[Night Mirror]

You do really comprehensive reviews.

Agreed! aaronminus correction documents have been very helpful (and while more work for them to make) the explanations on many of changes certainly help me make a better decisions. While I don't make every change (or always use exactly what is suggested), it has been great so far! Especially when tracking down small things (like commas, I just, tend, to, sprinkle, them,,,, everywhere and hope for the best...)

My initial fear was that i’d be creating a lot more work and/or crossing a line (Grammar/Prose toes the border of an objective science and an art).

Your work on this has been excellent so far! I would say I end up using almost all of the recommendations.

I also noticed we have the same dislike of repeat phrases (and words). I do try my best not to repeat myself (not to repeat myself) in both code and dialog, but after re-re-re-reading something for the 100th time, it is easy for stuff like this to slip past (that's what she said).

My perspective to make sure I don’t go to far and run away with the farm is to try to find the best way for the game to express itself in what’s already there, rather than fiddle around and, as you say, create headcanon.

While "corrections only" is certainly less work for me, if you do find something that feels out of place, or you think can be improved with some additional line(s), facial expression(s), etc... don't be afraid to let me know. The worst I can say is 'no'.

I very much value community input, and while I can't promise I'll do everything that is suggested/asked for, I will do my best to improve what I can, where I think it feels right.

I’ve also tried to give Night Mirror multiple options when appropriate, a lot of this stuff is not “my way or the highway”.

I very much appreciate the options as they help give a better perspective on the issue.

As a reader, i’m actually not that pedantic and it wasn’t like my casual playthroughs of the game made me stop all the time and say “that’s wrong” or anything.

That was a big problem I ran into in the original where I had to stop and re-read multiple lines. While I have by no means fixed everything from the Unity version (adding in my own mistakes and funky wording along the way), I think overall the game (mostly) flows pretty well. But that doesn't mean it can't be improved!

Night Mirror, feedback is appreciated if i’m doing anything that’s explicitly unhelpful with my suggestions. For now i’ll just stay the course

I can pretty much work with anything you send my way. Overall you're suggestions/corrections have been excellent, and fit with the tone/style I'm work towards. While not an exact fit (because then you would be me), it feels like you understand what I'm going for/trying to do pretty well. So I'd say just keep 'em coming (that's what she said), if you want to keep at it, obviously...

Thank you again for all your help with this!

 

[Night Mirror]

Alright, I've finished the implementation side of the scene selector (coming in at 203 scenes (for now) if anyone is curious). I thought it would take me all week to do get it done, but I guess I did just spend the past couple of days working 14+hrs each day on it... so... whatever... I still have: testing, edge cases, screen flow, and possible additional points for some days, that I still need to work on, but if the Unity version suddenly dropped on me, this would be mostly ready to go.

Here is a sneak peak at what the (mostly) final version looks like:


I've also added some extra "chapter" points in some days where scenes went a little long and it felt like they could be split a bit (for this feature, replay and normal gameplay not affected). There are a couple more I think I might need to add, but that will all be part of the testing over the next day or so.

Anyhow... Thank you everyone for the feedback on this! If you have any additional input now is the time! And stay awesome!

 

[kimlana]

If you have any additional input now is the time! And stay awesome!

Stylistically it looks fantastic, my only quibble would be those outline fonts. They are really unreadable at small font sizes. opening the above example at full size, it looks almost blurry or my eyes are squinting to read them.

Given that this is a navigation tool and covering up a tiny bit of the thumbnail shouldn't matter, I feel that it would be better to just pick a solid background color + non-outline text and set them all that way, e.g. solid black ovals for Day/Close and a solid black strip at the bottom of each thumbnail with solid white text over those controls. If black/white and white/black looks too sterile, maybe a strongly opaque dark strip like a regular text box to ensure bright non-outline text is always visible regardless of thumbnail contents.

And maybe a Red X next to Close to remind people that it is a control and not just a label like the Day above it.

 

[Night Mirror]

Stylistically it looks fantastic, my only quibble would be those outline fonts. They are really unreadable at small font sizes. opening the above example at full size, it looks almost blurry or my eyes are squinting to read them.

Given that this is a navigation tool and covering up a tiny bit of the thumbnail shouldn't matter, I feel that it would be better to just pick a solid background color + non-outline text and set them all that way, e.g. solid black ovals for Day/Close and a solid black strip at the bottom of each thumbnail with solid white text over those controls. If black/white and white/black looks too sterile, maybe a strongly opaque dark strip like a regular text box to ensure bright non-outline text is always visible regardless of thumbnail contents.

So something more like this:


Edit:
Close is a button, it will highlight when hovered.

 

[kimlana]

So something more like this:

Yes, but I would suggest bold style if that doesn't seriously increase the width to the point you have to worry about label length issues. I'd imagine bold fonts are the same width as outline fonts, but font wrapping code can be really stupid sometimes. Also you should try a 1-pixel black border around each thumbnail to see if you think it makes them stand out better like the border around the whole popout makes it stand out better.

But even non-bold it's extremely readable, either because of how Renpy or the OS handles text smoothing.

 

[Night Mirror]

Yes, but I would suggest bold style if that doesn't seriously increase the width to the point you have to worry about label length issues. I'd imagine bold fonts are the same width as outline fonts, but font wrapping code can be really stupid sometimes. Also you should try a 1-pixel black border around each thumbnail to see if you think it makes them stand out better like the border around the whole popout makes it stand out better.

But even non-bold it's extremely readable, either because of how Renpy or the OS handles text smoothing.

Yeah bolding did wrap some text, so I just had to come up with a shorter description in a few cases. I also had to drop the font size by 1 for both the day and info text to make them fit.

 

[kimlana]

Yeah bolding did wrap some text, so I just had to come up with a shorter description in a few cases. I also had to drop the font size by 1 for both the day and info text to make them fit.

Not to sound wishy-washy lol but I think the option to have more letters is way more important than text weight. It might be the difference between a label like "First Time with Summer" and "1st Tm w/Smmr" lol. And having to drop text sizes kinda negates any readability gains. So please forget my suggestion; one of the disadvantages to not having a live development environment of my own is making guesses about end results! I do like the outline, hopefully that doesn't have any effect on text box width.

 

[WatsonTouya]

Here is a sneak peak at what the (mostly) final version looks like:

my only quibble would be those outline fonts. They are really unreadable at small font sizes.

Maybe having two rows of thumbnails, 6 thumbnails per row, would be easier on the eyes? I know I made a big deal about choices obstructing the game/art, but when what you're specifically trying to do is skip parts of the game, then I don't think obstructing the view(of the game) should really matter.

edit1: And have the right zorder, if someone wants to use the scene selector during the "sex sim"

 

[mariorantonini]

I fuckin' LOVE your version. You're the best!

 

[Night Mirror]

It seems like this is the week of breakthroughs or something because, holy shit, I just stumbled into a plugin someone made for BepInEx (this if anyone would like to fuck around with it), that lets me pull and REPLACE texture files in unity games. Which means this (removing the condom (yes, low frame rate and size for upload, more to show it can be done than it's quality)), took me a few seconds to do instead of days.

So... floodgates open... doing the condom removal for Kitty, then going down the list for other characters. If there is one you want (other condom removals), now is the time to ask.
View attachment removal_test.webm

 

[aaronminus]

It seems like this is the week of breakthroughs or something because, holy shit, I just stumbled into a plugin someone made for BepInEx (this if anyone would like to fuck around with it), that lets me pull and REPLACE texture files in unity games. Which means this (removing the condom (yes, low frame rate and size for upload, more to show it can be done than it's quality)), took me a few seconds to do instead of days.

So... floodgates open... doing the condom removal for Kitty, then going down the list for other characters. If there is one you want (other condom removals), now is the time to ask.

NICE! Will jump in and request a no-condom version of the initial Summer Blowjob sequence if that's possible. My ideal version would be to start with the condom on during the licking and then when Summer says the line "What? Am I doing something wrong?" have the option to remove it ("I'm just not feeling much..."). Then a bit more licking with it off, before the switch to the animation. After Morty cums in her mouth, she can insist that no condom was a mistake and that she'll do "condom on" from now on (if you don't want to rewrite the through the portal sequence).

 

[Night Mirror]

NICE! Will jump in and request a no-condom version of the initial Summer Blowjob sequence if that's possible. My ideal version would be to start with the condom on during the licking and then when Summer says the line "What? Am I doing something wrong?" have the option to remove it ("I'm just not feeling much..."). Then a bit more licking with it off, before the switch to the animation. After Morty cums in her mouth, she can insist that no condom was a mistake and that she'll do "condom on" from now on (if you don't want to rewrite the through the portal sequence).

Added to the request list. It is a bigger edit as I also think some still need to be changed too. But I'll see what I can do.

 

[aaronminus]

Added to the request list. It is a bigger edit as I also think some still need to be changed too. But I'll see what I can do.

Well... now that I really sit and think about it I wonder if it would be the right scene to meddle with... on the one hand, it's the girl I'm biased towards (the game won me over on the rest!), in a scenario I'm biased towards (reluctant, "just business/pretending to be apathetic but clearly not", incest, blowjobs).

On the other hand, giving the player an in person full contact blowjob so early might throw off the pacing of Summer's sexual progression (going from that to gloryholes?), and it might provide an option that essentially invalidates the original (I think most people prefer no condom) which is a shame because the "not quite touching" is a nice tool to use for the "just business" fetish.

I think the urge to ask for an extension came from the monkey brain desire for more of one of my top 10 favorite sequences. Now that I've argued against myself, I'll leave the ball in your court, haha. Do what you think is best. If you think of a natural way to do no condom I'd be happy, but if it feels weird to you then don't worry about it.

 

[Night Mirror]

Well... now that I really sit and think about it I wonder if it would be the right scene to meddle with... on the one hand, it's the girl I'm biased towards (the game won me over on the rest!), in a scenario I'm biased towards (reluctant, "just business/pretending to be apathetic but clearly not", incest, blowjobs).

On the other hand, giving the player an in person full contact blowjob so early might throw off the pacing of Summer's sexual progression (going from that to gloryholes?), and it might provide an option that essentially invalidates the original (I think most people prefer no condom) which is a shame because the "not quite touching" is a nice tool to use for the "just business" fetish.

I think the urge to ask for an extension came from the monkey brain desire for more of one of my top 10 favorite sequences. Now that I've argued against myself, I'll leave the ball in your court, haha. Do what you think is best. If you think of a natural way to do no condom I'd be happy, but if it feels weird to you then don't worry about it.

NO TAKESIE-BACKSIES!!!!! (again, low quality short file preview only)
View attachment temp.webm












Actually, this is a scene I've wanted to do for a long while (as it's one I often replay (I forgot it was already on my Future Scene Ideas section of the request list (double checking is hard when you're excited...))).

Anyhow, I did the recapture (that is how much faster texture replacement is), there is a lot of other work to do (on both scenes) to make them work. As it's not just video files, but also images, dialog, programming, etc...

If Unity 3.6 is the end of the month (still 15+ days away) I'm sure I should be able to do at least these two scenes (maybe full day of work?)

As to possible conflict, I think I can make it fit (that's what she said). Early condom removal is a fairly minor change story wise (with some extra reminder text later), and it will be optional for people that would prefer to keep it on.

 

[bitriper]

condom removal? EVERY BETH SCENE, HERE WE GO!
...ahem, excuse me. wooo~

 

[aaronminus]

NO TAKESIE-BACKSIES!!!!! (again, low quality short file preview only) Actually, this is a scene I've wanted to do for a long while (as it's one I often replay (I forgot it was already on my Future Scene Ideas section of the request list (double checking is hard when you're excited...))).

Anyhow, I did the recapture (that is how much faster texture replacement is), there is a lot of other work to do (on both scenes) to make them work. As it's not just video files, but also images, dialog, programming, etc...

If Unity 3.6 is the end of the month (still 15+ days away) I'm sure I should be able to do at least these two scenes (maybe full day of work?)

As to possible conflict, I think I can make it fit (that's what she said). Early condom removal is a fairly minor change story wise (with some extra reminder text later), and it will be optional for people that would prefer to keep it on.

Nice work! That's cool that the tool lets you turn that around that quickly.

condom removal? EVERY BETH SCENE, HERE WE GO!
...ahem, excuse me. wooo~

Lmao +1

 

[kimlana]

On the other hand, giving the player an in person full contact blowjob so early might throw off the pacing of Summer's sexual progression (going from that to gloryholes?), and it might provide an option that essentially invalidates the original (I think most people prefer no condom) which is a shame because the "not quite touching" is a nice tool to use for the "just business" fetish.

Part of me thinks really there would be no harm in removing all condom graphics entirely from the game because that's generally how the rest of the porn universe works already. We use suspension of disbelief that the pizza delivery guy some girl just banged is really some random guy and not actully a paid performer with legally-required age verification, drug screening and STD testing.

Within the game, only Kitty has a real concern over disease given her occupation, and the dialog already makes it clear she's willing to make exceptions for the MC. Pregnancy is not really an issue either, because the existing dialog trees already handle that through birth control (albeit kinda stretching it sometimes).

The only real reason I can see for having condom interactions is that there's a plausibiilty factor that certain partners might be more willing to consider certain sex acts with the condom that they otherwise wouldn't. If that mental though process gets some people off then more power to them, I'm just genuinely curious how many are out there that see things that way.

I think ultimately it comes down to scene changes. If there's a point in the dialog tree where it looks like a diamond shape (starting at the same dialog line and branching left for condom or right for not condom and being able to merge cleanly at the conclusion) then I see it being very possible for NightMirror to add a fork that displays "Summer_with_C" if the player presses 1 and "Summer_no_C" if the player pressed 2. Where it probably ends up causing him grief is when he need to jump from scene 1 to animation 2 and then position 3 and keep track of condom states throughout. The scene with Morty and Beth under the covers of Jerry's movie is the perfect case of how frustrating it can be since it changes the graphics like 6-7 times and that's too much probably to path out without a major major rewrite.

Just my opinion, not the developer's.

 

[Night Mirror]

Nice work! That's cool that the tool lets you turn that around that quickly.

This one did require some minor image edits (as the condom was baked onto the dick instead of a separate object (like Kitty was, where I just deleted the condom)), but the tool is very easy/straight forward to use. It's pretty much just a mod that makes an output folder (that dumps the scene images), and has an input folder that injects any images I put into it. I do have the close the game for images to replace, but that's pretty minor. But SO much faster than hand editing videos stills.

condom removal? EVERY BETH SCENE, HERE WE GO!
...ahem, excuse me. wooo~

*cough* actually the last scene on my current list is to add a condom for Beth... (technically, it is an error from the original, and not a new choice, but I figure why not fix it).

(albeit kinda stretching it sometimes).

Whhhaaaaaattttt? I have no idea what you're on about! That is perfectly natural dialog that real human women would say and not something I desperately wish I could do better! Obviously.

The scene with Morty and Beth under the covers of Jerry's movie is the perfect case of how frustrating it can be since it changes the graphics like 6-7 and that's too much probably to path out without a major major rewrite.

Actually, the missing condom in that scene is simply absent from the original animation (and as stated above is one I plan to fix, in fact, right after I'm done typing this message). Tracking for condom/no comdom already works in that scene. It's not too bad to do different images/dialog behind the scene, lots of scenes do it. And actually with the rework in the image framework (to slicing) it is even smoother.

Up until now the main reason against it has been just the amount of edits needed for animations was unreasonable to do in all but a very few cases.

 

[kimlana]

Whhhaaaaaattttt? I have no idea what you're on about! That is perfectly natural dialog that real human women would say and not something I desperately wish I could do better! Obviously.

It's masterful. It's right up there with:

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XD