- Thread starter DeafPerv
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- Aug 10, 2019
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You're literally proving my point. You play Doom to be the doomslayer, to go around and fuck up demons with no consequence because it's fun not to be a random guy that doesn't get away with anything and gets treated like everyone else. Protagonists in games are not there to be nobodys that get treated the exact same way like npcs. Protagonists in games should be special, should be able to get away with stuff and should be able to get preferential treatment because that's what makes them protagonists.
- Dec 5, 2017
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Ok i will bite the bait of this discussion.
I think the way the story pans out it doesnt really trap me, there isnt really any real love story happening between any characters at all, and the whole game seems like the Succubus playing with tin soldiers.
I cant find myself inmersed in the story, and honestly i am just playing it and fixing the mod just because of the renders and animations, nothing else really gets my attention
Story wise nothing makes any sense, no characters have any reaction that makes sense, which can be fine if the game was designed that way, but i feel like its not the author's intention.
Anyway, will continue to play because i like renders and animations, but already gave up on any interest on the story
I think the way the story pans out it doesnt really trap me, there isnt really any real love story happening between any characters at all, and the whole game seems like the Succubus playing with tin soldiers.
I cant find myself inmersed in the story, and honestly i am just playing it and fixing the mod just because of the renders and animations, nothing else really gets my attention
Story wise nothing makes any sense, no characters have any reaction that makes sense, which can be fine if the game was designed that way, but i feel like its not the author's intention.
Anyway, will continue to play because i like renders and animations, but already gave up on any interest on the story
By deliberately misrepresenting the blatantly obvious, you're proving my point.
Nobody plays Doom to be Doom Guy.
They play because the game looks like fun. Like something they'll enjoy. It's not an RPG/CYOA, it's just mindless "old school" fun.
There's a difference between escapism, and being so petty and selfish that just because a piece of interactive fiction doesn't meet your expectations, you practically throw a verbal tantrum over it.
They're there to be our tool for immersion into the world and story presented to us. Not to pander to our own personal wants and desires.
No, a protagonist is simply the primary focal point of a story that the reader/viewer is supposed to identify with. There's no requirement for them to be "special". That all depends on the story being told.
By your logic alone, everyone should love this game, because the Player Character is "special".
Power Fantasy games are all fine & dandy, but they're not the definition for what makes a protagonist, the protagonist of a game. Unless you're Todd Howard.
- May 10, 2020
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the only thing I'll say about this, is that in a porn game the only need for protagonist is to facilitate the fetish/kink that is being represented in the game.By deliberately misrepresenting the blatantly obvious, you're proving my point.
Nobody plays Doom to be Doom Guy.
They play because the game looks like fun. Like something they'll enjoy. It's not an RPG/CYOA, it's just mindless "old school" fun.
There's a difference between escapism, and being so petty and selfish that just because a piece of interactive fiction doesn't meet your expectations, you practically throw a verbal tantrum over it.
They're there to be our tool for immersion into the world and story presented to us. Not to pander to our own personal wants and desires.
No, a protagonist is simply the primary focal point of a story that the reader/viewer is supposed to identify with. There's no requirement for them to be "special". That all depends on the story being told.
By your logic alone, everyone should love this game, because the Player Character is "special".
Power Fantasy games are all fine & dandy, but they're not the definition for what makes a protagonist, the protagonist of a game. Unless you're Todd Howard.
A game about netorare would have a weak willed protag(or a female mc who's easily falls into pleasure).
A game focus on romance would have a sweet and kind protag.
A game focus on BDSM would have a more "sadistic" proteg.
A harem focused game would have a proteg who likes to sleep with a lot of women, but the why he'll go around it would depend on the type of game it is.
The only time the proteg needs more "control" is when the game tries to be multiple things, like a game where you could be a sub or a dom for example, a game where the porn is only secondary to the story or a game that tried to imitate an rpg style decision for it's story like Fallout/Mass Effect.
You don't play Doomguy to be a sweet friendly guy who tries to make peace with demons, as it's not the point of the game in the first place.
As such you don't play a game about sex being the main driving point hoping you could stay celibate or somehow faithful where the whole story is about how people all around you are getting corrupted.
If you want to criticize the writing sure, but the game never tried to be more then a lust fuel fever dream.
- Feb 11, 2018
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Actually I have to point out in fairness to the MC not all the sex he's been having was entirly his fault or even his choice.
or are we forgeting that he and the women around him are being manipulated and played with by both cherry and Lileva.
He's not excused entirely but he's not wholly to blame either.
That's one of the reasons I have put up with his frankly submissive beta reactions to a lot of situations.
And to be fair to Ella her realtionship with her mother also seems to be a result of manipulation only this time by her mother.
Since we now see the mother as she tries to manipulate Lillith now whether the manipulation was done exactly the same way with Ella we don't know but I suspect with Ella it was probably far more subtle.
This is why I in my suggestion for the discovery of Ella and Madision was for him to just walk away go back to lillith's house and think about it instead of a gut reaction of "fuck this i'm out of here fuck you Ella" or Even the instant "I will forgive you anything beta aproach" the MC should get somewhere away and think before any making any decisions.
Because one despite what alot of people say I believe Ella is as much a victim of manipulation as the MC is.
And two remember if you picked either Ella route when you now she has sex with Madison even though the MC dosen't just so you can dump her you're the bitch in this game not Ella.
The MC shouldn't sit and think not if he is gonna forgive Ella but how he is going to forgive her should he A. just forgive Ella and move on and try to befriend Madison or B. forgive Ella and take revenge on Madison with or without the help of Lillith.
And to be brutally honest the only one I truely feel any sympathy for is Lillith.
which ever path you choose she seems to suffer more so If you choose the Selina route which breaks you up with Ella and leaves Lillith entirely in the hand's and at the mercy of Madison.
Just Sayin.
or are we forgeting that he and the women around him are being manipulated and played with by both cherry and Lileva.
He's not excused entirely but he's not wholly to blame either.
That's one of the reasons I have put up with his frankly submissive beta reactions to a lot of situations.
And to be fair to Ella her realtionship with her mother also seems to be a result of manipulation only this time by her mother.
Since we now see the mother as she tries to manipulate Lillith now whether the manipulation was done exactly the same way with Ella we don't know but I suspect with Ella it was probably far more subtle.
This is why I in my suggestion for the discovery of Ella and Madision was for him to just walk away go back to lillith's house and think about it instead of a gut reaction of "fuck this i'm out of here fuck you Ella" or Even the instant "I will forgive you anything beta aproach" the MC should get somewhere away and think before any making any decisions.
Because one despite what alot of people say I believe Ella is as much a victim of manipulation as the MC is.
And two remember if you picked either Ella route when you now she has sex with Madison even though the MC dosen't just so you can dump her you're the bitch in this game not Ella.
The MC shouldn't sit and think not if he is gonna forgive Ella but how he is going to forgive her should he A. just forgive Ella and move on and try to befriend Madison or B. forgive Ella and take revenge on Madison with or without the help of Lillith.
And to be brutally honest the only one I truely feel any sympathy for is Lillith.
which ever path you choose she seems to suffer more so If you choose the Selina route which breaks you up with Ella and leaves Lillith entirely in the hand's and at the mercy of Madison.
Just Sayin.
- May 10, 2020
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That would be interesting, as based on the last chapter the mc tries to gather more self control rather then being the puppet of the demons. It could be his opening to start taking the power back from Lileva, in one way or another. Madison is going to be a more "real" threat in the sense that she literally just kills people who mess with her daughters(or just to prove a point), so he'll have to find a way to deal with her even if he want to leave Ella.
Ella basically doesn't have control over her life much like the mc, and I could see them bound over it one way or another and same with Lilith. It would be interesting to see how it develop once all the cards are out.
I've gone through all the comments and I do understand where you are coming from.
But try to understand that we have our own way of telling stories and methods on how a character should be perceived. Most if not all games are catered towards pleasing the MC while forgetting all the consequences that may happen in real life.
Our game is far from realistic. I mean come on. Devils, spells and what not. But this game isn't all about pleasing the MC and he has to face consequences.
The relationship between Ella and MC has always been virtual. I don't know how many of you have been in a virtual relationship but it's far from a real one. You say one thing and then do another. I have seen people going behind their partner's back and cheating while saying how much he/she loves her/him. It tells you how fickle the bond is. I have rarely seen any online relationship be successful especially when they are so far away from each other.
Both Ella and MC are in love with each other. Mc tells her all about marriage, kids and what not. Ella tells him that he is everything to her. We can already tell that they love each other but it's just not like Mc and Selina. The relationship with Selina is more practical and the emotions are easily readable.
Now the cheating part of Ella. We don't have much of a backstory other than Madison getting punished by her husband, forcing a kiss on Ella and then them getting intimate. Deaf doesn't tell me what would happen but he likes to put half story out first and the other part later while in the meantime people keep guessing what's going on.
But it's pretty obvious that Ella has been groomed by Madison. It wasn't her intention to cheat on MC, neither is she cheating on him to make him jealous or anything.
On the other hand MC has been sleeping with his mother long before Lileva came in to the scene and started influencing his life. There's an deliberate attempt to cheat.
There's love but it's just not as pure. I'm sure MC would have his heart broken just like Ella had but the question is how much.
If you had anal sex with Selina then you see Ella regaining her composure and ask Madison to make love with her.
My English isn't good enough. So I don't know how to explain this properly. She had her heart broken. Maybe a piece of it but not to the point where she would go crazy.
My marriage didn't last long. We both knew that there was no future but when I was signing the papers, a piece of me was gone. Do you understand it better now?
As I've already said that the virtual relationship isn't as strong and there are many flaws in them. But now it depends on how Ella and MC wish to accept each other. They are at fault for doing the same thing to each other.
This is why Cherry has been trying her best to make MC understand that he should never fall for lust and stick to being loyal to his partner.
But try to understand that we have our own way of telling stories and methods on how a character should be perceived. Most if not all games are catered towards pleasing the MC while forgetting all the consequences that may happen in real life.
Our game is far from realistic. I mean come on. Devils, spells and what not. But this game isn't all about pleasing the MC and he has to face consequences.
The relationship between Ella and MC has always been virtual. I don't know how many of you have been in a virtual relationship but it's far from a real one. You say one thing and then do another. I have seen people going behind their partner's back and cheating while saying how much he/she loves her/him. It tells you how fickle the bond is. I have rarely seen any online relationship be successful especially when they are so far away from each other.
Both Ella and MC are in love with each other. Mc tells her all about marriage, kids and what not. Ella tells him that he is everything to her. We can already tell that they love each other but it's just not like Mc and Selina. The relationship with Selina is more practical and the emotions are easily readable.
Now the cheating part of Ella. We don't have much of a backstory other than Madison getting punished by her husband, forcing a kiss on Ella and then them getting intimate. Deaf doesn't tell me what would happen but he likes to put half story out first and the other part later while in the meantime people keep guessing what's going on.
But it's pretty obvious that Ella has been groomed by Madison. It wasn't her intention to cheat on MC, neither is she cheating on him to make him jealous or anything.
On the other hand MC has been sleeping with his mother long before Lileva came in to the scene and started influencing his life. There's an deliberate attempt to cheat.
There's love but it's just not as pure. I'm sure MC would have his heart broken just like Ella had but the question is how much.
If you had anal sex with Selina then you see Ella regaining her composure and ask Madison to make love with her.
My English isn't good enough. So I don't know how to explain this properly. She had her heart broken. Maybe a piece of it but not to the point where she would go crazy.
My marriage didn't last long. We both knew that there was no future but when I was signing the papers, a piece of me was gone. Do you understand it better now?
As I've already said that the virtual relationship isn't as strong and there are many flaws in them. But now it depends on how Ella and MC wish to accept each other. They are at fault for doing the same thing to each other.
This is why Cherry has been trying her best to make MC understand that he should never fall for lust and stick to being loyal to his partner.
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- Jun 5, 2020
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Indeed, and in no way requires the protagonist to represent some personal power fantasy.
Yes, and no... The BDSM just needs to be a focal/driving point relating to the setting and protagonist's involvement, but what the protagonist's involvement is, is dependant on the story/plot, just like you say below in regards to harem focused/related.
You don't play Doom to play Doomguy though, anymore than you play Mass Effect to not play "your" Shepard.
Different types of game, with different styles and genres of game, but you get to run around shooting lots of baddies.
Dragon Age: Origins lets you create a character that winds up helping to shape the political landscape of an entire continent, all while saving the world from "The Big Bad" of another Blight. The player was an active participant in the outcomes of events.
Dragon Age 2 lets you play as Hawke, who was there when the Mage/Templar war kicked off, and was personally responsible for unleashing the next "Big Bad" upon the world. The player was a spectator to the story.
Roundscape Adorevia is more a power fantasy "I am The Special One" than Where The Heart Is.
Both are story driven, allowing for limited player agency to drive the plot and sex scenes, but the only thing "special" about the latter's protagonist is that he's already got some money, and stands to inherit substantially more.
It depends on the porn game.
That would work for an NTR/BDSM/ focused game, ones focused around the protagonist being humiliated in some fashion.
Thankfully, that's not the case with this game.
Not sure if this part is being directed at me, or just a general comment, but I don't have criticisms about the writing or story, or this game as a whole.
I'm also not a hypocritical prick who loses his shit over a "girlfriend" that the MC hasn't actually met in person, that's been having sexual relations with their own mother, while the MC has done the same and with far more women. The MC is not me.
- Jan 10, 2018
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One of the questions here though is of course who is the Mc's partner or partners and as you said yourself, Ella is mostly an illusion/fantasy until now with a lot of baggage and not really a partner or even really that interesting as one as portrayed until now, which was likely a conscious decision.
There are at least a few more interesting females for a partner role atm as Ella, she will first have to deserve that in our mind as players and begins with quite a disadvantage for that role. We do not have the feelings for her our MC has and just have to take his word for that while not being shown a lot to agree with him.
- May 10, 2020
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my comment is general was more to add to yours, not to contradict it. Same as with this.
My whole point was that you need to know what the story/style of game you are going to play, some are "choice based" and some are where see the evens unfold.
In this game you play a guy who's life is being control by demons, as such you can't hope to be in "full control" all the time.
I don't have a problem with the way people want to immerse themselves in game characters, but much like my exempla of doomguy, you can't really "immerse"(make decisions for the story) yourself when the style of the game is meant to only be one thing. What you could do however is let "your control" go, and let the story take you to where it will or just have fun in the case of that game.
- Dec 5, 2017
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We understand all that, but as i said, the story is just no immersive. Its not attractive, i am not wanting to see what happens next with any of the characters honestly.
It isnt a love story, there isnt love or romance anywhere in the entire game, and while it is a lust story, you have the characters constantly trying to tell you that it shouldnt be a lust story, while its the only that there is there.
We understand your intentions, they are clear with Cherry repeating them untill we are sick of them, but your way to take those intentions into a story are just not reaching to us.
You say MC actions should have consequences, but we are on Episode 10 and the consequences of choosing Love are non-existant, which is a big problem. You shyouldnt have to wait untill the end of a game to start getting the fruits of your decisions, because you are only frustrating players and making your story a bad one.
This isnt a Lust vs Love story, this is a Lust vs nothing story.
- Feb 11, 2018
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Don't normaly disagree with someone that seems to know the game but In this case I have too you seem to skip the fact that MC didn't know Lileva at that time but all indications since say's that his Mother aparently did.
Again I have to be fair and point out that although yes the MC has already cheated on Ella with his own Mother and although it do's seem to have been his choice to do so.
It once again dosen't seem to be entirely his own choice.
If you go by and pay attention to the memories shown to the dead dad in them all indications show once again there has been manipulation and grooming of the MC this time by his mother.
Just Sayin.
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- May 10, 2020
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The mother obviously knew Lileva, Diana said she saved both of them from their parents when they were young. And Lileva punished his mother exactly because she felt the same thing her parents did, which was lust for her kid.
But Lieva had no reason to interact or mess with the mc at that point, and based on what've seen she didn't.
And as for the grooming, it seems like it's a point in "favor" of Ella at this point as she is in the exact same boat as the mc exempt her mother kill someone just to prove a point. We will have to see how it would turn out, but both of them definitely are fucked because of their parents.
Then don't...
Yes, there is.
It's not "the only one that is there".
The majority of what we've gotten so far, has been world building.
The consequences are in how Cherry reacts/behaves, and how it's influencing the story, which incluences the eventual endings.
You're treating this as a finished product, when it's not.
We don't.
The differences are there to see already in Cherry's dialogue.
Bit early to say that the story is bad, when it's still developing.
It's like reading a book, one chapter per day, and juding the entirety of the story by its first few chapters alone - A silly thing to do.
No, it's a branching narrative. You've been following the same branches without having explored the others at all, or you just haven't been reading.
- Dec 5, 2017
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I have played all paths, and yes, the only thing choosing Love does is give you some lines form Cherry, nothing else, and instead if you choose love with Selina you get to trash the life of the only lovable character in the game that is Lilith... great, you get punished by choosing love...
The product isnt finished, but we arent in Chapter 1 either, we should be getting more than just a few lines of dialogue from one character from choosing Love. We are very deep in the story already.
And no, those dialogues doesnt mean we have Love in the game. Up to now, there isnt a single Love or Romance scene in the entire fucking game. Nothing.
Thats why this isnt a Lust vs Love story, its a Lust vs Nothing one
I agree that it can be really confusing sometimes. Ella is not an ideal love interest. Most only play to see how we can trash her.
She did feel Lust for mc at first but later it turned into love. Cherry herself said mom she's the fruit of their love.
Ella isn't in the same boat with mc. Ella consensually agreed to cheat. Whereas MC's decision to 'cheat' was influenced by Lileva.
- Dec 5, 2017
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Ella is not an ideal love interest because the Dev isnt staging her as one. You cant decline a Lust scene and instead have a videocall with her, or write a love letter, or anything. You cant choose to do anything with Ella at all during the entire 10 chapters. All your interractions with her are predetermined doesnt matter what you choose.
And not only that, when you have those interactions, they are as if you are dating her for 3 months, not 3 years. Not the MC, not Ella are sharing the problems or struggles they face, which should already be happening if you have been dating for 3 years, even if its a long range one.
You wake up in the hospital and roam the entire hospital before even calling her.
And its not only Ella, you have 2 dates with Veronica already and you havent even take Selina once in a date, even if you choose all of the "love options".
Anyway, as i said already, there isnt any Love or Romance in the entire 10 chapters of the game, doesnt matter which options you pick.