I fully agree. He's the villain you would want to be, but not the one you want to face. Playing as Rowan, I deeply hate him. However, I do respect his ways.
Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.05 Dev] [Vénus Noire]
- Nov 1, 2017
- 4,429
- 9,522
I don't think you should rewrite it unless it is something that you really want to do. Alexia's captivity without Rowan lasted a very long time and she was authentically afraid for his life as well as suffering from Stockholm syndrome. The twins were working her with methods such as solitary confinement deprivation of interaction for months. There was only one person in the entire castle who was treating her with a modicum of kindness. It is very natural to begin to identify with and seek affection from your captors as a survival mechanism. Even a captor as inhuman as Andreas. Anybody who says they would do differently in her shoes is probably lying to themselves. We also have to remind ourselves that Alexia was a peasant wife and not a nun. Not that they have any more luck resisting the corruption of the twins.
- Dec 24, 2020
- 450
- 1,034
The thing that makes the twins interesting is while their ways make sense, they both fuck up when applying them. Andras is a petulant child incapable of seeing the bigger picture due to his obsessive dick measuring behavior. Jez wants to be a 4 chess master, but when she loses her temper has vicious and deadly tantrums. The irony is that while they balance each other out a bit, they would still be massively incompetant world leaders, due to their ego and inability to adapt.
That's what I think will be their fall in the game's end. Or at least the path I would like to choose.
- Nov 1, 2017
- 4,429
- 9,522
A agree that both of the twins have a big, throbbing Achilles heel of their own, but together they manage to mitigate the other's flaws. If Rowan is going to be successful in stopping them at any point he is going to need to drive a wedge between them somehow and employ a divide and conquer strategy. This will be exceedingly difficult.
- Dec 24, 2020
- 450
- 1,034
I think they are too reliant on Rowan to do their tactical thinking for them. The wedge is cleverly there already imo, in that they each want to do thigns differently. I think in time one of them will try and overthrow the other due to lust for power.
Despite all of his obvious flaws, Andras is perhaps a better leader than Jezera. Sure, he is in many ways primitive and brutish, also has anger issues. But Jezera is even more incompetent: despite being good at scheming (and often succeeding at it), she is completely childish, irresponsible and seems to be less focused on her duties than Andras. The red demon spends most of his time in barracks, training and commanding orcs, while also supervises forge work and driders - overall he seems to be very focused on his duties. Jezera on the other hand tends to spend most of her time playing with maids or devising petty schemes. She doesn't seem to be taking her role seriously at all. While Andras often cooperates with Rowan on his missions (we can see it during orc tribe events and village occupation events), Jezera spends most of her time in her chambers. If Rowan contacts her during his missions, she is interested only when it looks enjoyable to her (e.g. how she helped Rowan with corrupting the traveling nun or how she came to the witch convent). In other times, she simply doesn't care. During the event with Darla the Huntress, when Rowan contacts Jezera to consult with her a possibility of recruiting a large group of mercenaries, she tells him to stop bothering her because she is currently having some fun. I don't remember Andras being ever so negligent, despite also liking to have fun.
Also, Jezera's schemes, even if they succeed, are often very one-dimensional. Sleeping with an enemy general is a nice idea, but can succeed only against a man of lesser character (I sincerely doubt that someone like Werden could have fallen for a trick like that). In the prologue, Jezera lures Rowan away from Arthdale to capture Alexia, but when Rowan returns she is caught by surprise and is nearly killed/wounded by him. Even Andras calls her out on that after he comes to rescue her. We could also argue that each of the twins has an area of responsibility. Andras is in charge of the military and munitions, Jezera is in charge of spies and foreign relations. But whereas Andras does his job very well, Jezera is only partially successful. She succeeds in gaining Ameraine as an ally in Rastedel but miserably fails during her negotiations with the dark elves. Also, despite being a spymaster, she completely fails to stop plotting of important castle staff members. Both Cliohna and Shaya manage to take Rowan (who is supposedly monitored by Jezera) under their control in their respective paths (the only one who can stop them is Rowan himself, not Jezera) and Cla-Min is running wild with corruption, counterfeit money etc.
Also, Jezera's schemes, even if they succeed, are often very one-dimensional. Sleeping with an enemy general is a nice idea, but can succeed only against a man of lesser character (I sincerely doubt that someone like Werden could have fallen for a trick like that). In the prologue, Jezera lures Rowan away from Arthdale to capture Alexia, but when Rowan returns she is caught by surprise and is nearly killed/wounded by him. Even Andras calls her out on that after he comes to rescue her. We could also argue that each of the twins has an area of responsibility. Andras is in charge of the military and munitions, Jezera is in charge of spies and foreign relations. But whereas Andras does his job very well, Jezera is only partially successful. She succeeds in gaining Ameraine as an ally in Rastedel but miserably fails during her negotiations with the dark elves. Also, despite being a spymaster, she completely fails to stop plotting of important castle staff members. Both Cliohna and Shaya manage to take Rowan (who is supposedly monitored by Jezera) under their control in their respective paths (the only one who can stop them is Rowan himself, not Jezera) and Cla-Min is running wild with corruption, counterfeit money etc.
Last edited:
There are points where Andras absolutely bungles his job. The scene with the contingent of orcs that followed Karnas. The scene where a failure by a squad of orcs results in Andras killing the survivors. I think there are a couple other scenes like those. (Maybe in the random orc village recruitment scenes? Can't remember for sure. There's also the post-field-battle scene where he executes tons of captives for shits and giggles, though I can't remember it in enough detail. I'm pretty sure even corrupt Rowan thinks it's wasteful and dumb though.)
The one thing I'll give to Andras over Jezera is that he seems more willing to learn, given the one scene where Rowan is stunned by Andras learning and adjusting. I don't recall ever seeing that with Jezera, though Jezera also seems like she wouldn't want Rowan to see her adjusting her ideas and tactics.
- Apr 26, 2017
- 13,119
- 19,437
Hmm that could be the wedge Rowan could created, help one take out the other.
But truth be told i don't see that happening anytime soon, despite the bickering they do seem very focused on their shared goal of conquest so far.
There's also the fact that Andras is extremely brutish in his handling of practically everything. We may not see Jezera screw up all that much but that's in large part because Andras is a childish oaf while his sister is a calculating manipulator. Whatever mistakes Jezera makes are likely planned for, she doesn't seem like the type of character to act impulsively unless she has no other choice. Jezera fucks up and throws a temper tantrum when no one is around, whereas Andras is more likely than not going to choke a person out if any mistakes are made even if they're his own. Andras is playing checkers Jezera is pretending to play chess when in actuality her opponent is a taxidermy dummy and she's really playing solitaire.
I get the feeling that Jezera would last a lot longer waging a campaign against Rowan than Andras would. Andras' strategies would be straight forward and brutal assaults that would rely mainly on military might and Rowan knows how to defeat that kind of tactic. Jezera's strategies would center around manipulation, economic pressure, assassination, and backroom politics to soften her opposition before engaging in warfare. Rowan would still defeat her if he had the necessary forces, but she would take longer and cause more vital damage than Andras would.
Okay, now that the paragraphs are out of the way... Did someone se Cia'Min content in the next update?
Yeah, Cla-Min starts trading with orcs in an orc camp and Rowan can help her with that. At the end there is a possibility of a sex scene. Overall it's quite good I think.
Am I completely misremembering things or didn't she blow any and all chances for a powerful Dark elf alliance because of a minor jab at her ego?
I always got the impression that for all of her successes there are plenty of plans that don't pan out do to her arrogance or childishness. She does have contingencies and by the nature of her dealings failures won't always be as visible but she shows strong inclinations to the same destructive temper tantrums when things don't go her way. It hurts her ego in a very different way than Andras' since she wants to be, or at least be seen as, a great schemer and expects herself to not allow bad situations to arise, unlike Andras who just gets angry at the world for not being as he wants/expects.
Last edited:
The choices won't carry over to the next chapter? So even if Alexia cheated on Rowan, the next chapter still assumes nothing really happened??
- Nov 18, 2018
- 19
- 7
- Jan 1, 2019
- 34
- 48
Can't wait for more Alexia x Andras scene!! love the NTR route 
hope she get pregnants with Andras's childrens in the future
hope she get pregnants with Andras's childrens in the future
- Jul 2, 2017
- 167
- 355
same here. but based on what I read here, we're in the minority. People love to hate Andras. I don't care about him myself, but can't wait to see more major corruption events for Alexia, especially if he is the focus thereCan't wait for more Alexia x Andras scene!! love the NTR route
btw is there any chance we get to know more about the original Demon Lord? Andras and Jezara's father? or their mother? I would like to at least know how much each of them represents their father's methods. was he a cunning schemer? A ruthless conqueror? or a mix of both?
- Dec 24, 2020
- 450
- 1,034
I love you but I respectfully disagree.Can't wait for more Alexia x Andras scene!! love the NTR route
The best NTR route is Greyhide, because he is adorable and deserves to have 2 new cockleeves/cumdumps.
Both of the twins are extremely childish, they're just childish in different ways and with Andras it's more obvious and more impactful on everything he does. With Jezera she does show how immature she is a few times throughout the story, but she's still far more likely to go through a situation showing little to no emotional response than her brother is and is capable of controlling herself far better. Their childish tendencies are part of why I view Rowan as absolutely integral to their plan. Ignoring the fact that Rowan is a talented warrior, a skilled strategist, and when necessary a shrewd negotiator, he's also able to keep a level head during difficult situations, he's observant, quick thinking, and very intelligent, and on top of all that he's an adult. If it wasn't for the overt sexual nature of the game it would not be hard to write Rowan into a paternal figure for the twins.