Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.05 Dev] [Vénus Noire]

[lamebrain]

Liurial is mostly sexually focused on the maledom crowd

Yeah, that's super chill. I get it. It was just some wishful thinking from my end, y'know?

Anyway, my wider goal here is just to make the idea of more tentacle scenes with the Worple (or whatever the fuck that thing is called) more widespread; spread the seedlings of that idea into the minds of the devs, Inception-style...

 

[Lurker_555111]

Whenever I play this game I feel like Rowan should just instigate a rebellion against demon twins and become a new Demon Lord.
Like, what are those two even doing all their time? I've only seen Andras being Rowan's guard in the orc camp, all the other time he's shown either trying to fuck Rowan's wife or Rowan himself. Same with Andras's sister, she only opened a couple of portals on breaks between attempts to fuck Rowan and his wife.
All their success relies solely on Rowan doing all the work.

 

[lamebrain]

Whenever I play this game I feel like Rowan should just instigate a rebellion against demon twins and become a new Demon Lord.

The reason why he doesn't rise up in the game is because he's canonically about 5'10".

 

[T51bwinterized]

Whenever I play this game I feel like Rowan should just instigate a rebellion against demon twins and become a new Demon Lord.
Like, what are those two even doing all their time? I've only seen Andras being Rowan's guard in the orc camp, all the other time he's shown either trying to fuck Rowan's wife or Rowan himself. Same with Andras's sister, she only opened a couple of portals on breaks between attempts to fuck Rowan and his wife.
All their success relies solely on Rowan doing all the work.

How's he going to do that exactly?

He can't just fight the twins. Jezera has a complex set of defensive spells and enchantments. Andras is far and away a stronger fighter. Both of them are ludicrously hard to kill and basically impossible to poison so a quick assassination is out the window.

The bulk of the military forces inside the castle are orcs loyal to Andras and the only practical way to leave or come to the tower is controlled by Jezera.

Also they put a bomb around Rowan and his wife's neck.

The most plausible answer is build up a network of allies and a power base and use it to support the effort. But that takes time to develop, no?

 

[Rein]

The reason why he doesn't rise up in the game is because he's canonically about 5'10".

That doesn't sound right but I cannot be arsed to check the height chart.

 

[lamebrain]

That doesn't sound right but I cannot be arsed to check the height chart.

He has 5'10" vibes.

 

[Lurker_555111]

How's he going to do that exactly?

He can't just fight the twins. Jezera has a complex set of defensive spells and enchantments. Andras is far and away a stronger fighter. Both of them are ludicrously hard to kill and basically impossible to poison so a quick assassination is out the window.

The bulk of the military forces inside the castle are orcs loyal to Andras and the only practical way to leave or come to the tower is controlled by Jezera.

Also they put a bomb around Rowan and his wife's neck.

Idk, maybe choke the demon bitch with his dick while his wife rides Andras to death?

So they are completely defensive? Rowan should just die and let those idiots rot in their tower to the end of times.

I'm not demanding anything, just voicing how it feels playing this game for me.

 

[T51bwinterized]

Idk, maybe choke the demon bitch with his dick while his wife rides Andras to death?

So they are completely defensive? Rowan should just die and let those idiots rot in their tower to the end of times.

I'm not demanding anything, just voicing how it feels playing this game for me.

I mean. From an ethics standpoint there's a real argument to be made about "Should Rowan just kill himself?"

 

[lamebrain]

I mean. From an ethics standpoint there's a real argument to be made about "Should Rowan just kill himself?"

It would be really fucking funny if you added that as an option and it just game over'd and also deleted the save folder.

 

[Lurker_555111]

I mean. From an ethics standpoint there's a real argument to be made about "Should Rowan just kill himself?"

I mean, he should. It's narratively suggested that the only reason demon twins have accomplished anything, aside opening portals, is thanks to Rowan.

 

[Lurker_555111]

It would be really fucking funny if you added that as an option and it just game over'd and also deleted the save folder.

Better, showed a "Happy end" screen and deleted the entire game folder.

 

[T51bwinterized]

Well there is several dimensions to that question.

The first is that it's only an ethical choice if we narrowly accept that no twins is automatically more moral then yes twins. Which is probably true, but is more complex then it looks because Solense is shit, and it begs the question if not overturning the world order now would have worse consequences down the road.

Second, regardless of ethics it may or may not be a reasonable choice, because not all Rowan's are entirely or even mostly motivated by broader ethics. He may care about him s wife, himself, revenge, etc etc.

Third, there's the question of what the twins would accomplish without him. We leave it an open question on purpose. But, you also should consider that if Rowan died the twins would look for another Major Domo. Would that new Major Domo be as effective as Rowan? If less, how much less? Would they be more Evil then Rowan? What if Rowan is either effectively mitigating the harms of the twins or else hastening their downfall?

Then there's the question of when Rowan does it. How much so have his actions already taken the genie out of the bottle? If he kills himself during the sack of Rastedel, how much more good does that to relative to doing so in the dungeon?

 

[Lurker_555111]

Well there is several dimensions to that question.

The first is that it's only an ethical choice if we narrowly accept that no twins is automatically more moral then yes twins. Which is probably true, but is more complex then it looks because Solense is shit, and it begs the question if not overturning the world order now would have worse consequences down the road.

Second, regardless of ethics it may or may not be a reasonable choice, because not all Rowan's are entirely or even mostly motivated by broader ethics. He may care about him s wife, himself, revenge, etc etc.

Third, there's the question of what the twins would accomplish without him. We leave it an open question on purpose. But, you also should consider that if Rowan died the twins would look for another Major Domo. Would that new Major Domo be as effective as Rowan? If less, how much less? Would they be more Evil then Rowan? What if Rowan is either effectively mitigating the harms of the twins or else hastening their downfall?

Then there's the question of when Rowan does it. How much so have his actions already taken the genie out of the bottle? If he kills himself during the sack of Rastedel, how much more good does that to relative to doing so in the dungeon?

I believe Rowan being one of the heroes that defeated Demon Lord and his role in it, makes him several dozen times more efficient than anything that twins could find. So he either kills himself which leads to twins inevitable downfall or conquers the world and still gets backstabbed at the end and dies, because demons are treacherous bastards and can't be trusted.
Regarding Solense: I don't give a fuck about the world, I just want demon twins to fail and die in agony.

 

[Nym85]

I am fairly certain I have managed to run through the game without ever having sex with a female with Rowan but that did involve rolling back liberally.

On the ethics of Rowan killing himself, his assumption probably is that Alexia would then be raped, tortured and killed and not necessarily in that order. If Rowan was willing to discard Alexia's life, he has far better options than killing himself. He can betray the twins at several points and lead to their destruction. Sure they'd use the amulet to kill him (and do the above to Alexia) but he could really raise the alarm and destroy their chances.

Which is why I see the corrupt route as the most convincing route. Rowan was a folk hero whose contribution is barely acknowledged in a feudal society that only cares about politics in the major population centers leading to his village being destroyed and the countryside ravaged without the nobles making any significant effort until one of their defenses falls. Having him be completely disillusioned by the current power structure is entirely logical. The issue is the pointless (and largely inefficient) cruelty of the twins and their orc army. So at the end you pretty much have to turn fully evil or else there really is no moral excuse for continuing to work with them, especially after Rastedel. It's clear Rowan cannot really keep their worst urges in check anyway and it rapidly becomes clear that staying alive and helping them just to save one person while damning hundreds or thousands more with the prospect of even worse atrocities to come is already evil. Better embrace it (or perhaps just go insane?)

 

[Oriandu]

I mean. From an ethics standpoint there's a real argument to be made about "Should Rowan just kill himself?"

Certainly, but the flipside is that Rowan is the best chance for the violence and destruction to be kept to a minimum since he's the most capable, experienced, and connected potential general in the land. That's actually one thing I like about the writing of SoC, plenty of moral quandaries to go around.

 

[monk_56]

On the ethics of Rowan killing himself, his assumption probably is that Alexia would then be raped, tortured and killed and not necessarily in that order. If Rowan was willing to discard Alexia's life, he has far better options than killing himself. He can betray the twins at several points and lead to their destruction. Sure they'd use the amulet to kill him (and do the above to Alexia) but he could really raise the alarm and destroy their chances.

I agree wholeheartedly with what you said.

I do think there is nuance in regards to Rowan having a " hero complex" instead of just straight up being a hero though. It seems that Rowan can still maintain the lie of being a hero to himself as long as he is able to protect a few people who are close to him- he might not actually be a hero in that case- but he still thinks he is.

Existentially, we constantly see Rowan having to make choices about being heroic or not and the twins tend not to give him many options- but Jez usually dangles one little shred of hope at the end of committing atrocities to allow him to have a small "heroic" act. After taking the keep he can "save" Hel. After Rasteld he can "save" Juliette. She pushes Rowan to try to start relations to "protect" Draith. Liurial could also be a Jezera move- we don't know about that.

If we view this sort of hero complex as Rowan's Achilles heel, which I'm sure Jez would after how successful using Alexia was for the same purpose then it becomes pretty obvious why there would be an interesting and nuanced reasoning for Jezera to try to make a Rowan harem. Specifically of weak characters who don't really have the ability to help Rowan fight back in any tangible way (Juliette is a good example of that). His hero complex is maintained- but he will still be willing to do horrible things to try to protect them.

If you follow Alexia's NTR pathing it makes even more sense since Jez needs to maintain some influence over Rowan. If he ever found out about the Andras NTR pathing in particular why the fuck would he be sticking around Bloodmean. Jezera's NTR pathing is much more in line with her long term goals of keeping influence over Rowan- but it too could be discovered and it'd be hard to predict how he'd take it. So she needs insurance to keep that influence particularly if Alexia is on Andra's route.

Since you know....Andras' route doesn't help the twins with their long term goals at all. Andras NTR is basically dumb-ass red-demon with daddy issues wants to steal someone that is with one of the heroes that killed his daddy because he is an edge-lord child. For me Andras is the most boring villain in the story- Jezera carries the villain plot. Removing him wouldn't subtract from the narrative at all- he could basically be replaced by any orc in the castle....just slap some tattoos on the green fucker first.

I think its ludicrous to assume the VN authors would be unable to write harem kink pathing into the narrative compellingly-they already laid compelling ground-work for it and they are brilliant writers. The primary problem with other harem games isn't harem itself- it is poor writing (which is the problem with most porn games to be perfectly fucking honest).

 

[T51bwinterized]

I agree wholeheartedly with what you said.

I do think there is nuance in regards to Rowan having a " hero complex" instead of just straight up being a hero though. It seems that Rowan can still maintain the lie of being a hero to himself as long as he is able to protect a few people who are close to him- he might not actually be a hero in that case- but he still thinks he is.

Existentially, we constantly see Rowan having to make choices about being heroic or not and the twins tend not to give him many options- but Jez usually dangles one little shred of hope at the end of committing atrocities to allow him to have a small "heroic" act. After taking the keep he can "save" Hel. After Rasteld he can "save" Juliette. She pushes Rowan to try to start relations to "protect" Draith. Liurial could also be a Jezera move- we don't know about that.

If we view this sort of hero complex as Rowan's Achilles heel, which I'm sure Jez would after how successful using Alexia was for the same purpose then it becomes pretty obvious why there would be an interesting and nuanced reasoning for Jezera to try to make a Rowan harem. Specifically of weak characters who don't really have the ability to help Rowan fight back in any tangible way (Juliette is a good example of that). His hero complex is maintained- but he will still be willing to do horrible things to try to protect them.

If you follow Alexia's NTR pathing it makes even more sense since Jez needs to maintain some influence over Rowan. If he ever found out about the Andras NTR pathing in particular why the fuck would he be sticking around Bloodmean. Jezera's NTR pathing is much more in line with her long term goals of keeping influence over Rowan- but it too could be discovered and it'd be hard to predict how he'd take it. So she needs insurance to keep that influence particularly if Alexia is on Andra's route.

Since you know....Andras' route doesn't help the twins with their long term goals at all. Andras NTR is basically dumb-ass red-demon with daddy issues wants to steal thing that belongs to one of the heros that killed his daddy because he is an edge-lord child. For me Andras is the most boring villain in the story- Jezera carries the villain plot. Removing him wouldn't subtract from the narrative at all- he could basically be replaced by any orc in the castle....just slap some tattoos on the green fucker first.

I think its ludicrous to assume the VN autours would be unable to write harem kink pathing into the narrative compellingly-they already laid compelling ground-work for it and they are brilliant writers. The primary problem with other harem games isn't harem itself- it is poor writing (which is the problem with most porn games to be perfectly fucking honest).

The nuance of Rowan as having a self-identity of being a hero vs Rowan as BEING a hero, is a story element we've spent time considering.

 

[rtcD]

why there is female protag tag ?

 

[Sasarko99]

why there is female protag tag ?

Alexia is sort of a secondary protagonist to this story, but her husband Rowan is still the main character of this story.

 

[KingWeWuz]

That's basicly my point. i dont wnna see writers being bulled in to favoring one particular kink and derail entire storylines that were build up for litarally years beacuse the vocal minority wants oversimplification.

Don't try to justify what you said. He was not a user bullying writers. He wasn't doing that and you know it. Normally when people use the "boy that escalated quickly" meme they don't act as the literal reason for escalation.

Based on a quick search by user, he's asked only one other question in this thread about the game before trying it and then thanked others for their response.

Killing off Andres will remove entire ntr plotlines and deprive people who in to this stuff. Do you even though about that?

You know what else kills off the ntr plotline? Turning ntr off. He was not demanding that Andras become a character you're required to kill before the optional content takes place. He was asking if there would even be the availability to kill him off at some point, which the dev answered "yes."

Anyway, I don't see a reason to keep up this discussion since Ori's left anyway. I get why users are so sensitive about the Andras wars now that it's been explained to me, but I hope you don't attack other users on this thread the way you did him.

Orichan and KingWeWuz side note. I've spent the whole release cycle working on Liurial, so if heterosexual maledom stuff with potential harem-y vibe is your thing, I got good news for you. I'm even going to go back to the Liurial/Alexia threesome and making it easier to trigger.

I will definitely keep an eye out on that. I just checked your patreon and it seems a writer wants to make her less maledom oriented though?