Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.05 Dev] [Vénus Noire]

[Jynx_lucky_j]

So more kingdom managment? Or not?

Are you asking if the game is about kingdom management or if they have added more kingdom management recently? I would say despite the plot of the game, the actual kingdom management element is very light. You actually spend more time out side the castle exploring and reacting to encounters or doing quest. Though each round you will have a castle event that usually requires you to make a choice and/or pass a skill check.

Do you think we will ever be able to save the knight girl/other people in the tentacle dungeon? Or was that just kind of a one off?

I'm pretty certain that a one off. It was implied that the tentacle room was a temporary situation to make them pliant and gather information and after they got what they needed from them they would become generic slaves. Generally speaking, it is safe to assume that anyone that doesn't a have a talking portrait won't be showing up again (with the notable exception of portrait-less characters that are directly tied to an important character, e.g. Cla-Min's family).

 

[monk_56]

Do you think we will ever be able to save the knight girl/other people in the tentacle dungeon? Or was that just kind of a one off?

I too yearn for the day when we can steal or rescue all the evil demon tweens/orcs broken toys from them and help them recover- but it might be a ways off.

Really like to get Emma out of that orc camp for start. Think you're probably shit outta luck with random nameless 1 off characters though. Tortured knights, half-mino chick, Jezzies-sex slaves might never get a rescue.

Then again- who knows. Maybe they will get a one off rescue. We did see a random castel succubus get another minor event in the last build according to the release notes.

Design for jezzies blonde sex slave in the Rowan Dinner event was really attractive. Then again if you don't take advantage of her- Rowan doesn't even learn about her.

I think you have much higher chance of seeing a Netori arc with named minor characters associated with the Twins. Mary and w/e Andra's slut is named. If that does happen it won't be for a long while- and its not like either of those characters is currently disappointed with their lot in life.

Most prominent arc of stealing the interests of one of the twins broken slaves is Shaya atm- which is arguably on the fast track to being netori in the second game- so TBD.

 

[iongheorghe]

Man... I tried getting into the game multiple times but it just doesn't work for me.
The art is good and it has tons of content but i just can't get into the story.
Rowan and his wife getting kidnapped/blackmailed and tortured and then you're supposed to work for them? I always just refuse them and get the end game screen.
I like gritty stories but i can't fap to them

 

[monk_56]

Man... I tried getting into the game multiple times but it just doesn't work for me.
The art is good and it has tons of content but i just can't get into the story.
Rowan and his wife getting kidnapped/blackmailed and tortured and then you're supposed to work for them? I always just refuse them and get the end game screen.
I like gritty stories but i can't fap to them

You can turn them down sexually and not get an end game- but yeah you have to buy in to biding your time ect or you don't get to progress. The plot wouldn't really work at all if you just got away immediately. Maybe wait until the intro re-work is completed to give it another try?

The narrative of Rowan and Alexia together seems to be getting more attention over time, which is encouraging- I'd try it out again. That content is very fappable. ;-)

Playing from Alexia job pov is pretty annoying right now since she is a bit of a door-mat kink-dump and the sexual content is meh. Nor do the jobs make very much sense in terms of Rowan's end game / empowering Alexia (Library is the exception). But the game has a lot of potential and some truly great moments as well. A lot of the content is nitche- but there is a lot of other stuff too. The game is very robust.

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

Man... I tried getting into the game multiple times but it just doesn't work for me.
The art is good and it has tons of content but i just can't get into the story.
Rowan and his wife getting kidnapped/blackmailed and tortured and then you're supposed to work for them? I always just refuse them and get the end game screen.
I like gritty stories but i can't fap to them

To be fair it is kind of the whole premise of the game. So if you can't bring yourself to accept the twins' deal even with the intention of undermining them and hopefully turning the tables at a later time, then this game may not be for you. Which is fine, not everything is for everyone.

That said, on my first playthrough I also got the game over for refusing to serve the twins. (Personally I'm not a fan of these types of game overs, if I have to make a certain choice in order to play the game then don't make it a choice. Clearly Rowan HAS to agree or there is no game, so how about instead you let me choose WHY Rowan agrees instead of WHETHER he agrees.) I found it best to identify less directly with Rowan, Rowan is a character that may make choices that I wouldn't agree with. Just like a character in a movie or book may make different choices that I would make, yet I can still enjoy them. Instead of trying to make Rowan be me, I think of it more as being an actor that plays the character of Rowan but the director lets you improve some of you lines. While I do make decisions about what Rowan says or does, I'm not making those decisions as myself, but as my understanding of the character of Rowan and within the limitations of the greater plot and script.

 

[Back]

Or y'know, just don't self-insert yourself into a game. Play for fun and make wild choices for whatever game you're playing, or make choices that would make sense for the characters in their world. Don't make those characters you per se. It's all supposed to be fun and games after all and not something to stress over and give you anxiety. Most of us get enough of that while facing the real world as is, right? Cheers and have fun, y'all!

 

[gamingdevil800]

Man... I tried getting into the game multiple times but it just doesn't work for me.
The art is good and it has tons of content but i just can't get into the story.
Rowan and his wife getting kidnapped/blackmailed and tortured and then you're supposed to work for them? I always just refuse them and get the end game screen.
I like gritty stories but i can't fap to them

 

[Oriandu]

We are currently relatively close to finished with act one of three. The twins are the main antagonists, so it stands to reason that the earliest we can really expect to begin successfully defeating them would be about midway through act three.

I would expect to see the seeds (heh) of their defeat start being planted in the second act. Not necessarily the obvious signs, but we should at least begin to have some idea of their downfall by the end of the second act or it'll all feel rushed.

 

[monk_56]

I would expect to see the seeds (heh) of their defeat start being planted in the second act. Not necessarily the obvious signs, but we should at least begin to have some idea of their downfall by the end of the second act or it'll all feel rushed.

I think you only need Jezera to keep the antagonism plot going: Andras could literally be killed whenever- he is just muscle.

He could die as early as the game 1 epilogue and it wouldn't make a plot difference at all.

If we are talking about siezing power from both twins. My guess would be game 2 prologue or game 3 start. The Devs have articulated there will be opportunity to have an overlord route with some duration on it. If that part of the plot came mid-way through game 3 or late game 3 you aren't really going to have that.

Or y'know, just don't self-insert yourself into a game. Play for fun and make wild choices for whatever game you're playing, or make choices that would make sense for the characters in their world. Don't make those characters you per se. It's all supposed to be fun and games after all and not something to stress over and give you anxiety. Most of us get enough of that while facing the real world as is, right? Cheers and have fun, y'all!

Easier said than done for some. I find myself self inserting both as Rowan and as Alexia and I cannot help it >_>. Think some people are just hard-wired to do it in games.

 

[iongheorghe]

Or y'know, just don't self-insert yourself into a game. Play for fun and make wild choices for whatever game you're playing, or make choices that would make sense for the characters in their world.

That's the thing. Rowan is set up to be even less willing to take the deal then i am.
I'm just a regular guy while he's one of the great heroes of his land

 

[Tuskerman]

Well Andras is the "brute type" of twins, but I don't think he is idiot. He can learn from Jesera and Rowan's actions, and just play stupid.
About Jesera - she can be wonderful statue, hehe

 

[Back]

Well, isn't this the real hero that will eventually take down the reign of Bloodmeen and the Twins? Did we forget (as much as the devs have buried it)?

Not saying that this is the hero, or even if it is one, especially as the game continued to develop, but it could be, yes no? Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall in discussions in this very thread, didn't the devs say that canon Rowan refused the Twins' offer and succumbed in Bloodmeen's dungeons? What we're playing in SoC to avoid the early bad end is the what if scenario if one of the greatest heroes of the realms went along with the Twins and joined Bloodmeen regardless if he wanted to rescue Alexia and others and to bring down Bloodmeen from within or goes full tilt either now or later as Bloodmeen's champion. Just sayin'. ^^ Enjoy the art! And happy gaming; cheers!

 

[johnreturns]

Andras certainly isn't stupid. Not only is he a skilled tactician and fighter, and a powerhouse (though Jezera is just as lethal and brutal when she wants to be, ask the elves), but he has the loyalty of the orcs you've been recruiting. On top of that, even if you have a very virtuous playthrough as Alexia, she's still tempted and curious even though she knows he's a Bad Idea (tm). See also Ironhide, who she can befriend with a minimum of sexual tension if you decide to make those choices.

So he's smart enough to command an army, tempt Alexia even after he stops playing nice, and he's got the same body sprite as Rowan. He's basically his evil twin.

That said, I kind of mentally play the game from Alexia's perspective because there's more joy there. Everyone has their own thing, but Rowan is one gloomy dude for someone who is getting laid so much.

 

[Rein]

Seems like infiltration is broken. On the world map I put infiltrate Raeve keep 6 weeks prior to the 22 weeks deadline and I have 560 treasury gold and I keep getting game over.

I believe I've identified the problem. I'll make adjustments so it doesn't happen again.

 

[Oriandu]

I think you only need Jezera to keep the antagonism plot going: Andras could literally be killed whenever- he is just muscle.

He could die as early as the game 1 epilogue and it wouldn't make a plot difference at all.

If we are talking about siezing power from both twins. My guess would be game 2 prologue or game 3 start. The Devs have articulated there will be opportunity to have an overlord route with some duration on it. If that part of the plot came mid-way through game 3 or late game 3 you aren't really going to have that.



Easier said than done for some. I find myself self inserting both as Rowan and as Alexia and I cannot help it >_>. Think some people are just hard-wired to do it in games.

Actually I think you might have things flipped. Jezera is just as much a childish brat as her brother, only with a cerebral nature as opposed to Andras' more brutish nature. While I don't believe either twin should die until the very end, as even killing one would remove two of the major elements of Rowan and Alexia's potential corruption storylines, Jezera seems the more expendable one to me. Andras is more than just the muscle. Jezera has virtually no leadership abilities while Andras does have that capability. If Andras died leaving Rowan with whatever forces he had amassed it would be over far quicker in his favor than it would be if Andras were alive. Take Andras out and Rowan would have the Twin's military forces on his side before Jezera was even aware they were turning against her.

You could put Jezera and Rowan with perfectly equal forces against each other and Jezera would lose every single time as she's used to hiding behind her brother and working things from the shadows. One thing that's easy to miss is that Rowan is presented as the perfect package when it comes to his abilities as a general. He's an extremely capable fighter, a brilliant strategist, a master of tactical warfare, and an inspiring leader. The twins specifically sought him out because he's probably the only person in all of the kingdoms that can do everything the twins need; which is to say that the twins would need multiple people to fulfill his role. If they were all put on a level playing field it would be Jezera out first because her troops would be disorganized and would easily fall of their more savage impulses because she wouldn't know how to handle them. Andras would fall second because he at least knows how to keep his troops under control and he knows how to lead. Andras only lets the player think he's nothing more than a savage brute, but at the end of the day he'd be leading the troops into combat without Rowan.

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

Actually I think you might have things flipped. Jezera is just as much a childish brat as her brother, only with a cerebral nature as opposed to Andras' more brutish nature. While I don't believe either twin should die until the very end, as even killing one would remove two of the major elements of Rowan and Alexia's potential corruption storylines, Jezera seems the more expendable one to me. Andras is more than just the muscle. Jezera has virtually no leadership abilities while Andras does have that capability. If Andras died leaving Rowan with whatever forces he had amassed it would be over far quicker in his favor than it would be if Andras were alive. Take Andras out and Rowan would have the Twin's military forces on his side before Jezera was even aware they were turning against her.

You could put Jezera and Rowan with perfectly equal forces against each other and Jezera would lose every single time as she's used to hiding behind her brother and working things from the shadows. One thing that's easy to miss is that Rowan is presented as the perfect package when it comes to his abilities as a general. He's an extremely capable fighter, a brilliant strategist, a master of tactical warfare, and an inspiring leader. The twins specifically sought him out because he's probably the only person in all of the kingdoms that can do everything the twins need; which is to say that the twins would need multiple people to fulfill his role. If they were all put on a level playing field it would be Jezera out first because her troops would be disorganized and would easily fall of their more savage impulses because she wouldn't know how to handle them. Andras would fall second because he at least knows how to keep his troops under control and he knows how to lead. Andras only lets the player think he's nothing more than a savage brute, but at the end of the day he'd be leading the troops into combat without Rowan.

While Jesera would be the easiest to defeat militarily, I think she would be the hardest one to finish off. She is quite willing to to cut an run when things look bad. She would melt into the shadows and not only would she be difficult to track down, but you would have to be on the look out for spies and assassins the entire time. Andras if left to his own devices would be too hard to trick or bait into a battle he can't win, the he would be more than happy to go down fighting.

However all you points are still quite valid. Jezera is best in a support role, using her information network and subterfuge to weaken and exploit the enemy. But a weakened and exploited enemy still needs to be confronted. Assassinating a general will certainly weaken an enemy army but even a weakened army still needs to actually be defeated. And that is where Andras comes in.

Which is why I feel the twins are at their most powerful and are the most dangerous when they are together. They are both top of the field in their respective niches and they cover for each others weaknesses. If either of them is removed from the equation the other become exponentially weaker and more vulnerable.

 

[monk_56]

Actually I think you might have things flipped. Jezera is just as much a childish brat as her brother, only with a cerebral nature as opposed to Andras' more brutish nature. While I don't believe either twin should die until the very end, as even killing one would remove two of the major elements of Rowan and Alexia's potential corruption story-lines, Jezera seems the more expendable one to me. Andras is more than just the muscle. Jezera has virtually no leadership abilities while Andras does have that capability. If Andras died leaving Rowan with whatever forces he had amassed it would be over far quicker in his favor than it would be if Andras were alive. Take Andras out and Rowan would have the Twin's military forces on his side before Jezera was even aware they were turning against her.

There are plenty of other corruption narratives in the game besides the twins coercion that are more tempting- having both of the twins alive is hardly obligatory if you like corruption narratives- the whole game is steeped in them. Why choose blue or red rapists when you could choose purple poly? (X'zeratl).

You're absolutely right about Jezera being a childish brat and actually she is far more of an instigator in terms of trying to fuck up the couple's marriage [Encouraging Draith, Greyhide, Hel, and having her own NTR arcs], but

~Leading orcs isn't exactly big brain energy. You kill a bunch of them and give them some toys to play with and they fall in line. I think you may be over-estimating Andras; Jez could do that part fine -and if she got tired of doing or didn't have enough time to do it and her other tasks after he was dead she could just promote another brute to do his job. I can think of multiple characters in game already who could seamlessly replace Andras.

~Jezera's magic controls the portal network which has been integral for almost all of the twins logistical, financial, and tactical plans. Jez dies and that goes away leaving team Andras to do everything on foot and the situation falls apart expeditiously.

I know there are people out there who really like Andras- and that is cool; folks will definitely have the option to keep him alive or be his sub or w/e; but when the option to kill him rolls around for me- I'm pulling the trigger on it and never looking back and the game won't be any less interesting for losing its Red Orc.

 

[rivon]

Every emo kid:" I wanna kill twins they bully me! I wanna be OVeErloRd with my Harem of obedient sluts!

Me be like: You have to be eternally greatfull to them! They presented you with opportunity to fuck all this gorgeous women!
And be more than a filthy peasant.
Srsly the ungrateful brats this days...

 

[Oriandu]

While Jesera would be the easiest to defeat militarily, I think she would be the hardest one to finish off. She is quite willing to to cut an run when things look bad. She would melt into the shadows and not only would she be difficult to track down, but you would have to be on the look out for spies and assassins the entire time. Andras if left to his own devices would be too hard to trick or bait into a battle he can't win, the he would be more than happy to go down fighting.

However all you points are still quite valid. Jezera is best in a support role, using her information network and subterfuge to weaken and exploit the enemy. But a weakened and exploited enemy still needs to be confronted. Assassinating a general will certainly weaken an enemy army but even a weakened army still needs to actually be defeated. And that is where Andras comes in.

Which is why I feel the twins are at their most powerful and are the most dangerous when they are together. They are both top of the field in their respective niches and they cover for each others weaknesses. If either of them is removed from the equation the other become exponentially weaker and more vulnerable.

Jezera is the one that builds, Andras is the one who destroys. Jezera would be completely incapable of building what she needs to without Andras destroying what needs to be destroyed. Take either one away from the other and they would lose. Jezera would likely have scheme after scheme, and bolt hole after bolt hole, but ultimately she would be out fought any time she tried to face off against Rowan's forces if it came down to battle between them. Likewise Andras would last longer in an actual war, but once Rowan's forces gained the upper hand there would be no turning back. Jezera would escape to fight another futile day, Andras would hold his ground and either be killed by Rowan or kill Rowan and still be overrun by Rowan's forces. The twins definitely require each other.

There are plenty of other corruption narratives in the game besides the twins coercion that are more tempting- having both of the twins alive is hardly obligatory if you like corruption narratives- the whole game is steeped in them. Why choose blue or red rapists when you could choose purple poly? (X'zeratl).

You're absolutely right about Jezera being a childish brat and actually she is far more of an instigator in terms of trying to fuck up the couple's marriage [Encouraging Draith, Greyhide, Hel, and having her own NTR arcs], but

~Leading orcs isn't exactly big brain energy. You kill a bunch of them and give them some toys to play with and they fall in line. I think you may be over-estimating Andras; Jez could do that part fine -and if she got tired of doing or didn't have enough time to do it and her other tasks after he was dead she could just promote another brute to do his job. I can think of multiple characters in game already who could seamlessly replace Andras.

~Jezera's magic controls the portal network which has been integral for almost all of the twins logistical, financial, and tactical plans. Jez dies and that goes away leaving team Andras to do everything on foot and the situation falls apart expeditiously.

I know there are people out there who really like Andras- and that is cool; folks will definitely have the option to keep him alive or be his sub or w/e; but when the option to kill him rolls around for me- I'm pulling the trigger on it and never looking back and the game won't be any less interesting for losing its Red Orc.

Leading orcs may not be "big brain energy", but do you know what is? Waging war. There is a metric fuckton more to it than "Hey, orcs, kill that fortress.", if there wasn't then Rowan wouldn't be necessary and we wouldn't have a video game. You're grossly underestimating Andras' value. It's not about characters who could replace Andras as no one could replace him. There are no characters in the game currently who can match Andras. You're thinking of Andras in limited terms. No other character so far has been presented as anywhere near Andras' level of physical strength, he's literally able to tank blows from a minotaur with no damage. The only reason Andras doesn't get straight up rolled by Rowan is because of that strength. As a result all of Andras' other useful characteristics are reinforced, his ability to lead troops, his ability to inspire his orcine followers, his lack of moral scruples allowing him to take advantage of any and all situations to gain his best outcome and a few other traits that make him far more than just muscle. SHit, if he was just muscle then he wouldn't ever get waist deep in Alexia. No other character would be powerful enough to hold the advantage against someone like Rowan. Throughout the first act there exists a couple of points where Rowan would have killed a lesser opponent and every other character with a similar skill set to Andras' would be a lesser opponent to Rowan because he's that damned good with a sword and that damned mentally sharp. The only reason Rowan isn't a Gary Stu is because of the forces set against him. Unless A&J's dad resurrects no one currently in the game replaces Andras and lives very long.

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

Every emo kid:" I wanna kill twins they bully me! I wanna be OVeErloRd with my Harem of obedient sluts!

Me be like: You have to be eternally greatfull to them! They presented you with opportunity to fuck all this gorgeous women!
And be more than a filthy peasant.
Srsly the ungrateful brats this days...

I know this is just a meme post, but real talk though, the twins could have potentially won me over to their side if they weren't so capriciously over-the-top cruel. The current order is shit and needs to be replaced. And Jezera talked a good game early on about freedoms and meritocracy and such. But the only freedom they seem to care about is the freedom for them to do what ever they want and the only merit they seem to care about is what benefits you can offer them. And every time I start to think working for them might not be so bad they pull some unnecessary cruelty for the lols.

Jezera is the one that builds, Andras is the one who destroys. Jezera would be completely incapable of building what she needs to without Andras destroying what needs to be destroyed. Take either one away from the other and they would lose. Jezera would likely have scheme after scheme, and bolt hole after bolt hole, but ultimately she would be out fought any time she tried to face off against Rowan's forces if it came down to battle between them. Likewise Andras would last longer in an actual war, but once Rowan's forces gained the upper hand there would be no turning back. Jezera would escape to fight another futile day, Andras would hold his ground and either be killed by Rowan or kill Rowan and still be overrun by Rowan's forces. The twins definitely require each other.

I would hesitate to call Jezera a builder. I think they are both destructive, Andras is just destructive in the most obvious ways. If this was a family Andras would be the physically abusive father and Jezera would be the emotionally abusive mother. Their abuses are very different but they both lead to broken children. Neither twin is interested in actual leadership, they just want to have the ability to do whatever they want, whenever they want, consequence free. It is pure entitlement plain and simple.

It is pointed out several times by denizens of the castle that while the twins are ostensibly in charge, Rowan is the one that really runs everything. Of course if a Twin shows up you must pay all respect and follow any orders. But if you need anything you go see Rowan not a twin. The twins are only interested in themselves. Sure you could try to phrase your request in a way to appeal to that twins interests and if they see some benefit or entertainment in it they may do something for you. But they are just as likely to punish you for wasting their time if you fail to interest them or turn it around on you just for cruelty's sake. Rowan on the other hand has a vested interest in making sure everything is running smoothly and everyone is more or less taken care of. The twins want the benefits and effectiveness of a well regulated organization, but they aren't willing to put in the work for it and they want to be exempt from it rules. They why they put Rowan in charge of almost everything, while at the same time holding absolute control over him.

It's not even necessarily their fault I imagine that all beings of chaos inherently have difficultly maintaining any type or order. It's likely that the reason they revere the might-makes-right structure is simply because it is the only type of order they are inherently able to maintain.