Fyo

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Aug 14, 2017
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While playing new favor event, exception after thigh sex with Jezera.

Edit: Additionally, in Rowan's fight with Torlene, the wrong name appears in the textbox when Alexia calls out to him: "Rowan! Be careful!"

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Formatting is glitched
 
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diebesgrab

Active Member
Feb 25, 2019
596
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I'd argue Andras was unneeded at Raeve keep (we certainly didn't see him do anything 10 orcs couldn't have done), in the battle agaisnt the field army Rowan wanted to keep him out of the field which certainly doesn't paint him as vital and he didn't even participate in the battle of Rastedel, he just led the army Rowan recruited marching through the gates opened by the coup Rowan made happen. Jezera's portals are indeed very useful but I was under the impression it was something she stumbled into like the necklaces that enslave Rowan and Alexia. If anybody has a line pointing to the contrary then I will certainly give her props for those.

As for the other individuals in the keep nobody comes even close to the amount of usefulness Rowan does. They are a pretty good support team but at the end of the day they are just buff bitches for Rowan while he creates all the successes that give them momentum going forward. Everyone else was dispensable.

Much like the portals and magic McGuffins its plot convenience they find/cajole these useful people. They are an empire held together by plot convivence and duct tape and the moment Rowan fucks off nobody will remember to buy more duct tape.

This might change now that they actually have to rule a large realm. Like I said Jezera rages and lashes out when diplomatic efforts don't go her way but now she has some actual leverage for the future which might mean she might consistently get her way. Andras seems to be actually reading about battles and was the first to recognize Rowan's battle plan could work. He might become a good general that doesn't need Rowan to pre-plan every battle for him.

But these are maybes for the future. I'd love the twins be competent and dangerous in their own right instead of bumbling from disaster to disaster and then running off to Daddy Rowan to fix it.
They are competent and dangerous. Jezera didn’t “stumble into” her talents, she honed them over the course of her life. She describes to Alexia at one point how she apprenticed to a jeweler for a while, which helps her craft the items she enchants. Her spycraft may be amateurish, but she does manage to affect both the battle before Rastedel and the political situation within it. And she’s no slouch in battle, getting the battle in Raeve Keep back under control after Andras is wounded.

Andras is consistently depicted as massively strong, able to take essentially any single person out in one-on-one combat (and several normal soldiers without breaking a sweat). He’s vulnerable, yes, and arrogant enough that he consistently puts himself in positions of danger, which bites him in the ass, but a powerful demon at the head of an army of orcs has shock value, especially on those occasions where he runs wild. Seeing Andras leading the army, even after the damage has been done, destroys morale. No Andras also means none of the orcs from the northwestern camp—Rowan wouldn’t have the respect he needed to even operate within the camp without Andras having appeared with him his first time there.

What Andras and Jezera are bad at is management. They’re temperamental and willful, and let their pride and whims cloud their better judgment. That doesn’t actually make them bad leaders—they just need people to take care of the management stuff for them, which they recognized and sourced Rowan for. They’re still highly dangerous, probably a match individually for any of the previous war’s great heroes; Jezera has some small talent at spycraft, even if she is still an amateur; and again, identifying and utilizing talent is a greater talent in itself than you seem to be willing to concede. There’s a reason modern bureaucracy is so inefficient, and that’s because talented people get lost in the shuffle.

And in no way could Rowan pull off what he’s done without the other major castle NPCs. Every one of them is pulling off jobs that it would take several other people longer to do, and Rowan doesn’t have the manpower or time to deal with that. Read any of the several instances of Rowan struggling with castle management, and imagine how much worse it would be without people as skilled as Cliohna or Skordred doing the jobs they’ve been assigned. If you got rid of any one big NPC, sure, it might not immediately fall apart, but get rid of two or three and not even Rowan would be able to hold things together.
 

rivon

Member
Jun 14, 2018
295
618
so...can we fucking killd the red demon yet?
YEh in act 3 your wet dreams will come true probably! Come back in 5 years RAmbo!
Can't wait for the planned Preg content. I thoroughly enjoy this game
Pregnancy was never promised they just sad "we like pregnancy but it will be hard to implement" and " we see what we can do"
Will be nice if winter or rain tell us whether they can squeeze in one or two pregnancy scene in act 1 or that just wishful thinking.
 
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huvvaligen

Newbie
Oct 29, 2017
31
60
Anyone know how the new "chaos incursion" events works? Ive gotten reports from the orcs that there Ghorza is rampaging in the western forest, but ive been over literally every tile on the map and cant find him.
 

Buffalo Fred

Active Member
Aug 5, 2016
895
953
If you mean no Andras/men, yes, they won't be included. If you mean literally just Jezera, I'm not sure, maybe?
Aye I was referring to Andras/men, I don't mind a little girl on girl action on the side, but too many dicks ruins the dish for me, as it were.
Thanks! :)
 
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dobzzz

Active Member
Feb 7, 2018
611
1,382
Last time i tried it, it was leaning to ntr more and more. I guess now it's more ntr than not?
Dude this game only has optional scenes and there's even an ntr off button u f'ing m'ron even if u turned ntr on u can simple avoid it by basic yes/no questions I always believed that porn or any related to that doesn't man people dumb but after reading through this thread I am doubting my believes
 

Skantarios

Newbie
Jun 18, 2017
51
147
They are competent and dangerous. Jezera didn’t “stumble into” her talents
I'm talking about the things she has that are actually useful. The portals and the obedience necklaces which she did not produce. When Rowan asks if they can use another one she admits she doesn't understand how they work or how to reproduce them. She very much stumbled into the most useful things in her arsenal. Unless she is lying but that implies producing those necklaces is hard and she is limited in how many she can produce because otherwise they should be using that on literally every servant. The other two things are incredibly minor and honestly unnecessary. Anyone could have done it and probably done it better.

Andras is consistently depicted as massively strong, able to take essentially any single person out in one-on-one combat (and several normal soldiers without breaking a sweat).
As I said, there is nothing he did that couldn't have been done by a fearsome and dumb orc. When it comes to armies its about numbers, equipment and logistics. One fighter makes little difference (majority of fighters in battle won't even see him, a soldier in an melee scrum is as blind as a bat, ask any historian) and without Rowan planning the battle he would likely have managed to get himself killed anyway. Hell Ulcro could have easily been negotiate with, the gifts for Delane where all from outside the camp. After that you can easily convince him to allow Rowan to talk to her. You don't even need to operate in the camp realistically (which likely could have been achieved regardless).

That doesn’t actually make them bad leaders
It totally does. They spend more time getting in the way of their own plans and alienating their own servants for a whim than actually moving towards their goals. All Rowan would need to do to collapse their campaign is die. You said yourself their biggest "talent" is finding people to do everything for them and I see nothing about the way they act that it isn't writer fiat that they are able to do so.

If you got rid of any one big NPC, sure, it might not immediately fall apart, but get rid of two or three and not even Rowan would be able to hold things together.
Maybe, but like I said, them finding and being able to get these talented individuals is like their necklaces. Plot convenience to make mediocre villains not fail instantly. It doesn't speak to their ability of which we have seen very little. Yeah they are powerful in a one on one fight. They'd still have lost to the first organized resistance they encountered as we've seen if Rowan fails in preparing.
 

Skantarios

Newbie
Jun 18, 2017
51
147
YEh in act 3 your wet dreams will come true probably! Come back in 5 years RAmbo!
Its been 6 years. True that things now are well and truly in motion but we are still in the first act and not every system and options they want is in place yet. I'm gonna say 8 years before we get to kill the twins to save Rosaria/Declare ourselves supreme evil overlord.
 

arls120

Member
Sep 12, 2020
388
491
I think an ending where you trick andras into putting on the collar and making him our slave and throwing jesera into the tentacle room for eternity sounds better than killing them. Of course we will also become the supreme lords of chaos.I see that many here want to get rid of the twins but I'm really counting the days when I can finally send Alexia to hell.

A doubt since this update seems to be focused on jezera does it mean that maybe an andras focused one will follow soon? Even if it is not, is there a possibility of adding more rowan x andras scenes?
 
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Fyo

Member
Aug 14, 2017
175
380
The story is quite interesting and the art is amazing, however from what i can see this story is quite kinetic, no? the only "choices" there are is whom you have sex with.
An then theres the fact that theres gay and ntr content, Sure they are optional but that doesnt change the fact that the amount of content thats released in each update that i would want to play is reduced since the dev would have to make sure to release content to satisfy all fetishes.

All in all, this is promising but not a VN i would actively follow and play after each update due to the reasons stated above.
I wouldn't call the story kinetic, there's significant options in how things turn-out so far. It's still the first third of the story, so you wouldn't expect it to be too branching yet, or it would be impossible to finish.
 

AL.d

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
1,578
5,239
Anyone know how the new "chaos incursion" events works? Ive gotten reports from the orcs that there Ghorza is rampaging in the western forest, but ive been over literally every tile on the map and cant find him.
Same here.
 

Behappy69

Active Member
Nov 3, 2020
821
446
So, I bought this game on steam when it first came out and really enjoyed it. I also played it after the first couple of updates, but as it had no sex female moaning, and other sexy sounds and I found some games that do I stopped playing it for a long time. Could someone plz tell me if these have been added yet? I checked the change logs well not all of them, but I didn't see it in the last 4-5 updates.
 
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Fleep

Member
Jul 16, 2018
291
615
The story is quite interesting and the art is amazing, however from what i can see this story is quite kinetic, no? the only "choices" there are is whom you have sex with.
You also get to choose who you reach for support, how to get it, how to deal with different NPCs... I think the game is anything but kinetic.
 

diebesgrab

Active Member
Feb 25, 2019
596
1,185
I'm talking about the things she has that are actually useful. The portals and the obedience necklaces which she did not produce. When Rowan asks if they can use another one she admits she doesn't understand how they work or how to reproduce them. She very much stumbled into the most useful things in her arsenal. Unless she is lying but that implies producing those necklaces is hard and she is limited in how many she can produce because otherwise they should be using that on literally every servant. The other two things are incredibly minor and honestly unnecessary. Anyone could have done it and probably done it better.



As I said, there is nothing he did that couldn't have been done by a fearsome and dumb orc. When it comes to armies its about numbers, equipment and logistics. One fighter makes little difference (majority of fighters in battle won't even see him, a soldier in an melee scrum is as blind as a bat, ask any historian) and without Rowan planning the battle he would likely have managed to get himself killed anyway. Hell Ulcro could have easily been negotiate with, the gifts for Delane where all from outside the camp. After that you can easily convince him to allow Rowan to talk to her. You don't even need to operate in the camp realistically (which likely could have been achieved regardless).



It totally does. They spend more time getting in the way of their own plans and alienating their own servants for a whim than actually moving towards their goals. All Rowan would need to do to collapse their campaign is die. You said yourself their biggest "talent" is finding people to do everything for them and I see nothing about the way they act that it isn't writer fiat that they are able to do so.



Maybe, but like I said, them finding and being able to get these talented individuals is like their necklaces. Plot convenience to make mediocre villains not fail instantly. It doesn't speak to their ability of which we have seen very little. Yeah they are powerful in a one on one fight. They'd still have lost to the first organized resistance they encountered as we've seen if Rowan fails in preparing.
I’ll admit I haven’t given the game a full playthrough in several versions, but last I saw the necklaces mentioned, Jezera made them. Last I read, the portals were hers. She specifically says in at least a couple scenes from those versions, and at least one in 3.0.5 that I can recall, that her particular talents are enchanting items and creating portals. I haven’t read the scene you’ve mentioned with Rowan, so I can’t comment on how accurate I find your interpretation of it, but as I understand it, the only thing Jezera lucked into was being born with her particular talents.

Andras could not be replaced with an orc. He’s been shown in combat with some of the strongest orcs in his army, and has humiliated them without effort. He can throw magic around that easily clears enemies from around him, which makes him not only a dangerous weapon, but also a highly visible entity on the battlefield with all the morale effects that would imply. The mere psychological impact of having a full fledged demon lord in battle is significant for both sides, and this is without factoring in that Andras, for all his arrogance and faults, is far more intelligent than any orc leader, and is therefore a more competent battlefield commander when he isn’t letting his pride run away with him.

Rowan never would have seen Ulcro without Andras bolstering his reputation. He’d most likely have been killed.

The writing has consistently pointed out that the twins are good at recognizing talent and recruiting it. Andras could have just slaughtered Draith when he was found skulking under Bloodmeen. Greyhide could have been passed over. Shaya could have been forgotten. The twins could have let their arrogance get the better of them and demanded more than the lip service they receive from Cliohna in exchange for her use of the library. Hell, even the clockmaker could have been simply tossed in with the rest of the menial slaves, but Andras recognized the man’s talent with his hands at a glance. When characters are consistently portrayed with a particular characteristic, that isn’t a plot device or writer fiat, that’s called good characterization.

It’s this talent for finding people suited to the tasks that need to be done, figuring out what those tasks are, and outlining goals that make the twins effective leaders. As I have repeatedly conceded, they couldn’t manage the minutiae or coordinate their subordinates well themselves due to their personal failings; what allows them to be effective in spite of this is the fact that they recognize those faults and recruit somebody with the talents to keep the wheels turning. No leader can be good at everything, and while Andras and Jezera would be far more effective without their tendency to get in their own way, they’ve worked around those flaws using the talents they do possess to bring everything they have together. And don’t forget, Rowan is mostly just organizing things to make their plans work; the twins are the ones who are managing the broad strokes of their plans, and so far those broad strokes have been effective. The leaders figuring out the big picture and delegating how the smaller steps will actually work is fairly typical in any hierarchy.

You also have to remember that they enjoy tormenting Rowan, so many of their excesses seen from his perspective are at least partially theatrical—you tend to see them acting less erratically when Rowan isn’t around. That’s not to say they don’t make blunders, merely that when they’re serious, they aren’t quite as flighty or fickle as they often act.
 
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Aug 26, 2016
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I'd like to complain again about the first set of Rowan/Liurial/Alexia threesome scenes, specifically this image here RoxLixAl 2.png this is petty I admit, but I'm not really a fan of the manass. So a version of this image with a translucent option or a different additional image showing the action in this specific image from the side would be nice to have. This isn't immediately pressing or anything, but something I'd like to see at some point if you ever decide to revisit Liurial.
 
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