Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.08] [Vénus Noire]

[New Kid]

Once again Rowan didn't win the war. He had a few key victories that played a part in the Alliance having the breathing room to try a desperate hail mary assassination attempt against the demon lord. Rowan was selected to be one of the heroes on that mission,but he wasn't even one of the crucial heroes on that mission. The story never gives any indication that Rowan is more than a above average person placed in an extraordinary situation. People exaggerate his prowess do to him being one of the heroes that participated in that legendary mission, but he is always the first to downplay his achievements. Everyone seems to expect Rowan to be some sort of Mary Sue, but in the end he is just a guy.

He is still one of the Six Heroes isn't he? At least in the prologue he kicks some major ass despite the situation he was in... and then I wonder how could such a legendary character hailed as a great strategist go into the fortress of his new, unknown enemies with a half baked plan to rescue his wife without even letting anyone that would help know what the hell was happening? Sure, the nobles don't like the guy much because of his peasant origins and whatever else he has on his background that isn't cool, but he has to have at least a few reliable connections on the kingdom that he could have messaged instead of entering the keep alone like a moron without any backup or insurance after Werden told him to fuck off.

 

[adrad555]

He is still one of the Six Heroes isn't he? At least in the prologue he kicks some major ass despite the situation he was in... and then I wonder how could such a legendary character hailed as a great strategist go into the fortress of his new, unknown enemies with a half baked plan to rescue his wife without even letting anyone that would help know what the hell was happening? Sure, the nobles don't like the guy much because of his peasant origins and whatever else he has on his background that isn't cool, but he has to have at least a few reliable connections on the kingdom that he could have messaged instead of entering the keep alone like a moron without any backup or insurance after Werden told him to fuck off.

That part is not even the worst part! He cold have found his wife 1st secured an escape route and got her out of the castle. Then playing his heroic role he could have gone back in to find out more about the twins/ secure evidence to slay them and then got caught.

Instead we see him go into the castle supposedly to rescue the wife, but he does not even try to find her, he sees mirror he forget, he see demon he attack.

 

[adrad555]

Once again Rowan didn't win the war. He had a few key victories that played a part in the Alliance having the breathing room to try a desperate hail mary assassination attempt against the demon lord. Rowan was selected to be one of the heroes on that mission,but he wasn't even one of the crucial heroes on that mission. The story never gives any indication that Rowan is more than a above average person placed in an extraordinary situation. People exaggerate his prowess do to him being one of the heroes that participated in that legendary mission, but he is always the first to downplay his achievements. Everyone seems to expect Rowan to be some sort of Mary Sue, but in the end he is just a guy.

How the fuck is that not wining the war? I don't know if you have ever been in a fight but momentum plays a insane role in fights/ war. Till then the demons did not capture any castle if Rowan was not there the castle would have fallen. Removing any time for the good forces to muster up an army. Giving the demons a stronghold for future raids and that's not all. Castles are build one choke points or in great positions. From the fact that the demons besieged the castle instead of circumventing it we can assume that it was a choke point preventing them from raiding the soft part of the alliance.
(Him holding the castle is what Leningrad was for the communists... Hitler should have won... A dead communist is a good communist!!! I wholeheartedly agree.)

Not to mention him taking the enemy fortifications with barely any force at all and slaughtering armies several times its size. You can say again and again that Rowan did not win the war but from what was written, we can see that the demons were not giving the humans any chance to breathe thereby not giving them a chance to fight. Without Rowan the other heroes could have done nothing. Rowan gave them a chance for a fight where there was none.

And when you say that he is just some guy... Why do the twins need him then? They have plenty of above average people under them? Any one of them can replace Rowan! Heck they are demons, having power most humans could never dream of, so why don't they win on there own or with the help of there other subjects?

And desperate hail Mary assassination? THE DEMONS WERE SLAUGHTERED! THERE ONLY STRONGHOLD WAS THAT LAST CASTLE!!! FUCKING THE DWARF STATES THAT THE WAR WAS OVER LONG BEFORE THEY KILLED THE DEMON KING!!!

 

[perles75]

That's nice and all but the real reason people don't like the game is that it's MC is a bitch. Where I come from we have two genders, women and men. MEN.

Where is the MC that cuts off Andras head, rams it up Jezara's ass and then fucks a baby into her cunt while she tries to shit it out? All while he slaps the fuck out of the hired help for being weak sissy ass beta cucks?

I'm a man, I like doing manly things. Please let me kill and rape to MY pleasure not yours. I don't want to rape village girls, all I have to do is give them a pretty shiny thing and they'll hop on my cock like the whores they are. I want to brutalize Andras. I want to rape him bloody night after night and watch him eventually curse his regeneration like the sissy bitch he is compared to me. I don't like playing the bitch in games because I don't like playing the bitch IRL.

Please give us a manly man Rowan route all god damn ready dev. Getting real sick of Rowan being touted as some kind of amazing dude when he's a bitch. In fact he's such as bitch I'm shocked he doesn't have tits like Bob.

I have the feeling you're one of those people that think they can fly a plane without training or instructions, or win a fight against a grizzly bear...

 

[Nightguy1]

Truth is somewhere in the middle Rowan is a badass with S tier prowess in multiple fields but that isn't enough to storm a castle by himself and escape with a non combatant. I dont think anyone in that castle is capable of that not even the demon siblings, this game has a setup up where the hero is down from the start and its works great for cuck stuff from the get go so cuck lovers are getting exactly what they want right now.

It also works great as a starting point for an empire bulding game it just might take 10 years for someone who enjoys maledom like myself to get the payoff of all this buildup. For example I really really enjoyed killing Duke Warden and making his daughter a slave because of all the shit he pulled in a regular maledom game the duke would have been Rowans bitch form the get go and that feeling off satisfaction would be dry as fuck. Ofcourse that route has like a scene and a half pretty much so yea if you like maledom check back in a decade or so..

 

[perles75]

He is still one of the Six Heroes isn't he? At least in the prologue he kicks some major ass despite the situation he was in... and then I wonder how could such a legendary character hailed as a great strategist go into the fortress of his new, unknown enemies with a half baked plan to rescue his wife without even letting anyone that would help know what the hell was happening? Sure, the nobles don't like the guy much because of his peasant origins and whatever else he has on his background that isn't cool, but he has to have at least a few reliable connections on the kingdom that he could have messaged instead of entering the keep alone like a moron without any backup or insurance after Werden told him to fuck off.

On a more serious note, I've also wondered why Rowan just (more or less) barges in. Concerning the connections part, I have the feeling that Rowan just didn't care, he wanted to go back to his village and his wife without creating waves and enjoy the simple life of a post-hero (after all, the 'what happens after' was the springboard idea for the creation of the game) and didn't expect to be involved in grand schemes again. So he didn't work or take his time to network.

Left alone, I think he was just afraid of the demons hurting his wife by trying big shenanigans and so he approached the thing straightforwardly. He knows after all he's at a disadvantage, and also even if they managed to escape, the twins would still have searched for him forever, so just escaping would have been just a temporary solution. And next time the twins wouldn't have been so lenient towards Alexia and him.
So I see why biding his time could have been the path he chose (also, people tend to forget that the game spans three acts and we haven't seen the end of the first yet; it's very much possible that there'll be a vengeance ending, but it's going to be a slowly progressing one)

 

[opaquecake]

Updated the scene replay mod to v0.4.01. Any issues then let me know, thanks.

Spoiler: 0.4.01 Changes

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[Kind romantic boy]

Thanks btw would you mind if i asked a question ?
from what i know the game does have a scene gallery does the mod expand it

 

[New Kid]

On a more serious note, I've also wondered why Rowan just (more or less) barges in. Concerning the connections part, I have the feeling that Rowan just didn't care, he wanted to go back to his village and his wife without creating waves and enjoy the simple life of a post-hero (after all, the 'what happens after' was the springboard idea for the creation of the game) and didn't expect to be involved in grand schemes again. So he didn't work or take his time to network.

Left alone, I think he was just afraid of the demons hurting his wife by trying big shenanigans and so he approached the thing straightforwardly. He knows after all he's at a disadvantage, and also even if they managed to escape, the twins would still have searched for him forever, so just escaping would have been just a temporary solution. And next time the twins wouldn't have been so lenient towards Alexia and him.
So I see why biding his time could have been the path he chose (also, people tend to forget that the game spans three acts and we haven't seen the end of the first yet; it's very much possible that there'll be a vengeance ending, but it's going to be a slowly progressing one)

I can understand that he wanted to wash his hands of the hero life after the war, but his wife was kidnapped by the kids of his arch enemy (which were considered dead btw) and they were amassing an army to attack the realm again, if there was any situation where he had to rally the few people that he could trust in it would be that one. I refuse to believe that none of the other Heroes or the people in the army or the royal castle would listen to him or try to help, you don't get a title like legendary hero without garnering at least a few reliable allies.

Well, he had no reason to trust their word in the first place, going to the demon castle was a long shot to begin with, and as we see in the prologue, the twins are amateurs, Rowan managed to get a surprise backstab on Jezera that almost killed her, if he had actually ignored her and went after Alexia he might have managed to flee with her despite all the flaws in his plan ( the twins would probably intercept them on the way back or just teleport Alexia via necklace though). Now if he had brought a support party to aid him while he infiltrated the castle... he might have had a real chance to dispel the magic on her necklace and escape the twins' realm to mount a defense now that more people have seen the threat with their own eyes.

Biding his time works too, I have no doubt that there will be an usurpation ending where Rowan takes the power for himself or even a plain betrayal ending to just kill the twins. But yeah the whole servitude mess could've been avoided or at least diminished in the first place, but then we wouldn't have a game to play hahaha.

 

[Fleep]

Patchnotes are huge, but here's an important part for the most of you. And text file with all of them. View attachment 2970332

OMG is that Cliohna's name in the patchnotes? What is this, 2014 again?

In a more serious note. Great patch. If only it was Jez arc event instead of Andras again, it would've been perfect.

 

[Christ P Bacon]

is arc 1 completed yet?

 

[Raven_Light]

Since last few pages have been a lot of commentary about the story. Why not put my own two cents.

The biggest problems i have with the game are the story , and the way the game builds around it. Starting with the not game mechanic created problems, the contradictions run deep because of the game doing the arcs the way it does, all characters that are reoccurring end up suffering from different writers, different visions, and a disconnected continuity where at times they go back and fort characterization wise has that particular spot of story demands it, the builder can admit that Rowan is the real power making stuff work, but since we are in the fabled "first part" it never referenced again , Adras can supposedly learn and not be the generic brute, but since events have no real order beside time tables he goes back to being a simple brute, until he is not, then goes back. Even in main story bits, where is the Adras that sat his ass down and read a book about strategy next time he is about to battle and his strategy is "run at thing and put all bets on regeneration being quicker than damaged received"

Then we have the ones that suffer the most, Alexia and Rowan , Alexia being another npc that wears many hats, but none really matter outside events of that specific line.
Rowan...he is a mess, the game calls him a great hero and shows bits of how he was a valiant man with great smarts, but at the same time he cannot be a great hero cause the twins are idiots and if he was the game would not have the "3 arcs/games".
Rowan the great strategist would have made a plan, even if warden ignored and blocked all attempts of him to get help, maybe know its a trap, go for Alexia and out. Yet even in the "best" of heroic choices he is very passive on his trying to find ways out, borderline naive, for a strategist he does not seem to understand how to plan against the twins, why? , is it because they are are too smart?

Not really, adras is repeatedly shown to have about has much smarts has a brick on stuff not fight or strength related and Jezera is repeatedly shown to be a wanna be spy mistress with has much whim control has Adras. Yeah she learns stuff quick, but is about has obvious has one can expect, i doubt anyone would be surprised that saying secrets in front of the staff is a bad idea.

Rowan cannot act agaist the twins...because its the first part of the game, neither of the twins learn much, they just show that they are kids playing with daddys toys, Adras does not die by being a reckless idiot cause he has demon blood and regenerates, Jezera does not screw herself over cause Rowan is there to actualy put effort.

Its telling that most bad ends have the undertone of "and then the Twins get destroyed" , their starting plan is to march on the biggest, most well defended city, with what amounts to a handfull of orcs and nothing else, if Rowan does not do the orchid or goblin questline its all but stated their little plans are imediatly crushed cause they cannot even win agaist the army of the weakest, starving realm.

The game both makes a big deal out of Rowan, and goes to great efforts to make excuses to why we cannot even have a hint of actual resistence for what amounts to the "Its the first part of the game"

And with that wall of text, the smaller, mechanical part of what i think hurts the story, random events, the main story is already full of "if a , then b" that does not acount for c . If a more specific example is needed, the builder one since its what comes more to mind. He gets his conclusion, and alright, getting it does not imedialy means he would try to kick the twins , nor do i expect it, but its never again mentioned, he goes right back to the "Normal" way of treating Rowan since its the easier way to do events to work both to those that did not finish his story yet and those that did.

Add the random events that happen, and there is a lot of things that only exist in their self contained world. There aparently being a dragon on the loose, the dragon oger girl , all the villages that you interact with and little stories. They are nice, but at the end of the day the story at this point is made of seperate developments that only exist on their arcs or do small cosmetic changes.

When playing the game one is not playing a hero having to do hard choices, one is playing a man that suposedly was once a hero serving two brats in adult bodies having no ability to get any semblance of actual resistence until the tail end of the first game (arc) where the fabled "second act" will apear and pick up this disointed threads of self contained plots and start conecting them.

With that i end with the "hero" part, i get its to hammer the point that rowan is not going to have a nice time acting like a hero, but it more seems like the point is "This is not a game of redeption and heroics" , there is no silver lining on the "good" path, the game makes it clear the priestess is not a good person and that werden is a dead man walking, the nobles are part of why the twins did not get their teeth kicked in by an actual challenge before getting to rowan, and are also incredibly corrupt, and somehow this are the people that will be a key element on the "future arcs" to get the good path?

I choose to belive that its a red hearing and the kick in the balls to say "You will not get anywere trying to find a good path". Rowan gains nothing and loses everything trying to do that.
The orcs are not loyal to him since tarish is not and he cannot put her in her place or even interact with her
Dellane gets dollified after a kinda meh "feel bad" scene of having rowan seemingly have fallen more in love with her than the actual woman he got in the situation for to begin with
He gets beaten up
Does not get the girl.

Compare that with a Rowan playing the gaining personal power option. He can
Save dellane, even if she goes away, probably not to apear again, maybe will reapear and actualy get a better arc than "good path dellane" gets
Gets patricia to serve him and not the twins
Gets more on the good graces of the twins
Gets the girl

And tell me its not the writers going "Want to be the hero, play the pragmatic instead of the naivly stupid"

In conclusion. I like the game, but i think it realy will become better and pick up steam once it gets out of arc 1 and stuff can start to happen besides rowan dancing to the twins tune all the time. But so far, the disconected reality of the arcs, the random events not adding to much more than one time things will little weight to the plot, and limitations of the game being this big and limited to just one arc, hurts it.

Its like the Xzaratl plot with Rowan/ Rowan x Alexia plot, last couple ones seem like a waste, cuz it could lead too things especially with Rowan choices if he wants Alexia too whip him or not. If he chooses no it should lead too encouraging Xzaratl too steal Rowan for herself, but decieving wise, bragging too Alexia bout Rowan and Herself, but offering her pleasure too out of pretend guilt bedding with Alexia and Andras, or Jeerza, Alexia choice. Or if Rowan lets Alexia whip him, it should lead too Alexia choices how it happens between the three of them, other 2 consenting. Allowing it to open up plot points.

 

[Gicoo]

Disposition	Orc-Camp	Goblin-Town	Rastedel	Helayna
Noble, sabotaging twins	Delane	Che-Lin	Werden	Escape
Jezera	Tarish	?	Patricia	Enslavement
Andras	Bartri	Zii-Zii	Jacques	Warrior
Chaotic, gaining power	Ulcro	?	own Patricia	Lover

Tue-Row, and Tue-San are missing.
Did another playthrough and Goblin Town confused me. I had Che-Lin sorted under Jezera, but she disliked the demons and basically wants to keep the traditional relatively peaceful time, so Che-Lin may fall under Noble route? Tue-San doesn't like Jezera, but she is is pretty much the manipulative girlboss like Jezera, Tarish and Patricia who want to rule through intrigue. And what is Tue-Row about? An ally for a rebelliious chaotic Rowan or more like a safe bet for a noble Rowan?

Edit: Put Che-Lin in noble for now.

 

[HentaiGamerN00b]

is arc 1 completed yet?

Main Plot yep, side but relevant enough for next ones WIP, and some kinks scenes left aside are too WIP... Join to the debate, critics and theories.

 

[Fleep]

I think a big reason why there's not enough feedback around here is how the updates are structured. Bascially, I feel like with every update I have to play the whole game again from start to finish to find what's new, and as a wise woman once said "ain't nobody got time for that". That is obviously a product of how the game has changed during all these years and the necessary rework/rewrite/redrawn we're seeing, and that's perfectly understandable. I don't expect things to change for this arc, but as a small tip for Venus Noire, I think if arc 2 changes the way the updates are done and instad of focusing on one arc, then another and so on, they become "wider" updates where we get maybe a single scene instead of two but for each character route so their arcs can move forward simultaneously, they'd see way more engagement from the community. Just my 2 cents.

 

[HentaiGamerN00b]

He is still one of the Six Heroes isn't he?

I don't know, i'm not sure of how much info the characters companions of Rowan before and during The Six Heroes gathered are complete solid... What i'm saying is, that Rowan could be somebody with some sort of Hero Complex or some kind of mental disorder that makes him believe after many campaigns that he could be just a survivor who was part in the most prominent battles, serving under commanders and generals who lose their lives with many other men while Rowan take the credit as having in the right place at the right moment (intentionally or others believe), until he believed everything he' supposedly being attribute, some sort of Ciaphas Caine for example, but much more mundane.

 

[HentaiGamerN00b]

I think a big reason why there's not enough feedback around here is how the updates are structured. Bascially, I feel like with every update I have to play the whole game again from start to finish to find what's new, and as a wise woman once said "ain't nobody got time for that". That is obviously a product of how the game has changed during all these years and the necessary rework/rewrite/redrawn we're seeing, and that's perfectly understandable. I don't expect things to change for this arc, but as a small tip for Venus Noire, I think if arc 2 changes the way the updates are done and instad of focusing on one arc, then another and so on, they become "wider" updates where we get maybe a single scene instead of two but for each character route so their arcs can move forward simultaneously, they'd see way more engagement from the community. Just my 2 cents.

That's why Venus Noire Team in a practical sense are leaving all the major fixes and hard work (or reworking) of the game's mechanics near the end, because they know they will break saves, and right now there are some cool scenes that seems to be impossible to access because of this, but they aren't willing now to fix, their priority is to finish the kinks scenes that are left... And yeah, what still is left for side plots that will be relevant for main plot in next Acts...

 

[monk_56]

Tue-Row, Tue-San and Che-Lin are missing.
Did another playthrough and Goblin Town confused me. I had Che-Lin sorted under Jezera, but she disliked the demons and basically wants to keep the traditional relatively peaceful time, so Che-Lin may fall under Noble route? Tue-San doesn't like Jezera, but she is is pretty much the manipulative girlboss like Jezera, Tarish and Patricia who want to rule through intrigue. And what is Tue-Row about? An ally for a rebelliious chaotic Rowan or more like a safe bet for a noble Rowan?

Honestly, whilst it is a fun little chart to consider, sorting these decisions cleanly into these categories is an intrinsically flawed goal. While some choices are clear cut - such as Batari being the best choice for Andras. Other choices are much murkier offering pros and cons that don't fit cleanly into these narrative boxes - and thankfully so. Restoring Helenya into being a Knight being clearly an Andras favored action in example... like what? Clearly his favorite option is letting Hel get gang raped, then raping Hel in front of Rowan and Alexia at a dinner. I don't even begin to see a single thread of logic as to why Jaques is Andras favoring as an outcome- it seems like the most favorable pathing for both Twins is twins-slave Patricia. A Tarish pathing features an orc tribe that is easier to manipulate since she is weaker than either of the men- both by Rowan AND by the Twins. Sure, it could be considered the most Jezera favoring option, but it could also be considerd the most power hungry Rowan favoring option. And so on and so forth.


Thankfully the choices don't really fit into the boxes every time. The game would be really, really boring if every suite of major choices was cleanly structured like this.

Playing your box game though since it is fun and speculating on the various gob plots:

~I'd say put Che-Lin in your Sabotage category- restoring the old clan-order and prob making the gobs more reclusive.
~Tue-San in your Gaining Power category (assuming you can flip her zealotry onto Rowan's dream/vision instead of Tue-Row's).
~Tue-Row onto Jezera since it used diplomacy / manipulation to get the job done cleanly.

Tue-San and Tue-Row endings could be flipped depending on how they hash out or depending on how much you buy into Tue-Row being Rowans super-good-best-friend on his side buddy. Tue-Row is a duplicitous little shit who is prob willing to sacrifice anyone for his dream though- so I def wouldn't put money on him truly being best for supporting power Rowan.

 

[Gicoo]

Honestly, whilst it is a fun little chart to consider, sorting these decisions cleanly into these categories is an intrinsically flawed goal. While some choices are clear cut - such as Batari being the best choice for Andras. Other choices are much murkier offering pros and cons that don't fit cleanly into these narrative boxes - and thankfully so.

Fair enough. I did this box game to gain an overview about the possible factions and approaches of how Rowan solves the main quest. There is undeniable a pattern of how he can usually appease either Jereza or Andras or do his own thing either selfishly or selflessly. Considering how much the game branches out, restricting the branches in four rough pathes could benefit/ease the writing instead of accounting for 100 different paths. Already seven years in and we barely have a direction where the game goes, may as well try to formulate what I observed myself.

Using Helanya as a knight is currently undeveloped. I assume once she restores her full potential and slaughters her former allies for the demon army, Andras will be very pleased. Jacque is undeveloped as well (we don't even bang his girl yes), though he communicated noticable more with Andras than with Jereza.

 

[Chinel]

That's nice and all but the real reason people don't like the game is that it's MC is a bitch. Where I come from we have two genders, women and men. MEN.

Where is the MC that cuts off Andras head, rams it up Jezara's ass and then fucks a baby into her cunt while she tries to shit it out? All while he slaps the fuck out of the hired help for being weak sissy ass beta cucks?

I'm a man, I like doing manly things. Please let me kill and rape to MY pleasure not yours. I don't want to rape village girls, all I have to do is give them a pretty shiny thing and they'll hop on my cock like the whores they are. I want to brutalize Andras. I want to rape him bloody night after night and watch him eventually curse his regeneration like the sissy bitch he is compared to me. I don't like playing the bitch in games because I don't like playing the bitch IRL.

Please give us a manly man Rowan route all god damn ready dev. Getting real sick of Rowan being touted as some kind of amazing dude when he's a bitch. In fact he's such as bitch I'm shocked he doesn't have tits like Bob.

Rowan is such a cuck.
Fucks half of the planet, has a bunch of female goblins jumping on his cock on command, an elf bitch that sucks his cock wherever he wants, and a mind brainwashed knightess that does whatever he wants. /s

Sure he serves two demon lords, but he is not really a cuck. A cuck by definition doesn't even have sex for god's sake.

If he is still somehow a cuck...well, we need him in some NTR titles, the plot will go south considering that he can go full rapist horny like Andras.

Anyway for a game like that?

Free Cities might please you.