Others Abandoned Sex Machine [v0.052] [UraMomo & TheUnsaid]

[TheUnsaid]

For a moment I thought this was a rhythm game, the battle sounds lined up so well with the music! I think it would be awesome if the battle mechanic was a kind of rhythm minigame, considering the "speed" or tempo increases throughout the battle. Right now the "random direction guessing" seems kind of out of my control, or maybe I don't understand it well enough yet. Either way this is awesome! Keep it up!

Changing it from a turn-based game into a reaction based game changes the entire feeling of the game. The game's not really as random as you think. I recommend you be more patient with the game.

 

[SooperKrampus]

I'm in the same boat. The battle system seems very clunky to me and I don't see why it isn't a rhythm game when it looks and feels like it should be.

 

[TheUnsaid]

I'm in the same boat. The battle system seems very clunky to me and I don't see why it isn't a rhythm game when it looks and feels like it should be.

Alright since this has been said twice, I'll tackle the grievance with a bit more depth.

Currently, the game's mechanics are centered around understanding how the girls move and what they like. This is extrapolated into the arrow system. The idea is that IRL different girls like different things when it comes to motion and different parts of their body. Matching the arrow is like doing exactly what gets the girls want the most.

This is why the game's systems are designed around pattern recognition. The first time you have sex with the girl it will feel completely random, but it's impossible to lose just by getting two turns fully incorrect. The first time you have sex with a girl should be harder than subsequent times.

________________________

I think how your mentality came out must've went something like this. (Please note this is not an attack on your character, and you're completely free to point out if I'm wrong )

You start the game.
- You do the first fight, and you see 1 or 2 correct answers. You guess random arrows except those 2 and you take a lot of Lust damage. Let's be negative and say you get them all wrong except the two that are given to you.
- The next turn there's two arrows given to you again, maybe she used a speed up skill. You guess, and you get most wrong again.

Oh snap she made you cum. You got them all wrong for two turns in a ROW!

Thought process wise you're thinking the game's bullshit. You think, "if I knew what the arrows were BUT I had less time to put them in I could do this easily!" Even though cumming doesn't kill you, you close the game.

Basically, you want the game to change to fit your strengths. You're confident in your reflexes but aren't confident in your ability to understand the systems, so you want the game to challenge you in what you're good at, instead of understanding what kind of system is already in place.

There's a lot I can't do in a reflex based game that I can only do in this current system. Since I'm not really challenging reflexes either, there's a lot I can do balance wise to make the enemies actually challenging to fight.

____________________________

Regarding the people who do enjoy the game. Usually they get past the hump of the first two turns, play around with the skills, and engage with the game's systems (at the end of the turn you can look at the turn's arrows for as long as you want.) I've actually made quite a few balance changes based on this feedback since they understand the battles.

____________________________

I do not intend to change the system to challenge reflexes. I'm trying to make a reverse rape battlefuck JRPG, and have designed the system to encapsulate those themes.

 

[SooperKrampus]

I don't think the game is bullshit or too hard. The game isn't difficult to understand, I just think it feels strange - almost unfinished maybe? They way it's currently designed (and maybe this just the arrows in the UI?) makes it look and feel like it should be a rhythm game to me. Thanks for trying to psychoanalyze me though, maybe I'll skip my next therapy appointment.

I should be clear that I really like the game as a concept. I'm supporting you on Patreon and am in the discord (which is hilariously full of lurkers atm). This isn't an overt criticism, just my thoughts on how the game feels right now.

 

[TheUnsaid]

Thanks for trying to psychoanalyze me though, maybe I'll skip my next therapy appointment.

Did it really come off that way? This is the conclusion I had after a direct message conversation with another user on the ULMF.

I should be clear that I really like the game as a concept. I'm supporting you on Patreon and am in the discord (which is hilariously full of lurkers atm). This isn't an overt criticism, just my thoughts on how the game feels right now.

Thanks for your support.
Yeah... I don't fully understand the lurkers myself. Some are supporters as well. I'm guessing they don't want to influence the game in any way even though it's in its most malleable state.

Is there anything I could to make the game not feel like it should be a rhythm game?

 

[BigJohnny]

Is there only vagoo sex at the moment? No oral, titjob or other?

 

[TheUnsaid]

Is there only vagoo sex at the moment? No oral, titjob or other?

We're thinking of ways to add it right now.

We have ideas, and are thinking of ways to include them.
Any ideas of your own?

 

[iamnuff]

When I played, the arrow inputs seemed near totally random. Some were revealed to you before the turn, but most were blank. The purple ones which I was warned would be 'random' were actually the only non-random ones, because they'd tell me what to press.

But you're saying that each girl uses the same pattern each time, so you can 'remember what she likes?'
Are we really expected to... what? Memorise the button-input for every enemy type in the game?
Yeah... that's not going to happen.

The music is great, the art is great, the animation is great., but none of that will matter if your intended combat system really is 'Just remember each girl's combos'
Rote memorisation is boring.

If it was just 'this girl like doing up/down/up/down strings' or 'this girl do clockwise rotations' then it wouldn't be too hard, but actual randomised strings instead of patterns make it a bugger to remember even a single girl. Trying to memorise the attacks of four or five is a no-go from the start.

Edit: Booted the game up again to check. Fought the red girl. First round she had all up arrows. Then she had all left, then she had left/right/left/right, then she had a random burst of all four directions.

... I don't know what you mean about 'learning what she likes' because she never repeated a pattern and her order of attacks seemed totally random.
Is this... working properly?

Anyway, how I'd do it, is I'd give each girl three or four premade combos to switch between and she'd use those three combos at all speeds (so if she's at speed one and only has four moves, she uses the first four moves from combo A,B, C, or D, and at max-speed she'd use the full combo-string)

Except I'd have the character learn and remember the combos, not the player.
As in, each time a move is countered properly, that part of the combo is permanently made visible every single time she uses that combo.
If I mash random keys the first time we fight and manage to find out that the third attack on her A-combo is a left? Now every time she uses her A-combo, that third move being a left will always be visible to me.

So the first time you fight her, you don't know any of her moves, but the second time you've got chunks of each combo, and by the third time you might know her entire A-string, so if she busts that out you can perfect parry it so long as you don't fumble the inputs.
On the other hand, if she breaks out Combo D, which you haven't seen yet, you'll be fighting blind again.

Hell, maybe that's how it's supposed to work now, but I'm not seeing it at all.
Every time Red-girl gets an attack, she throws out a totally different string. As far as I can tell, she's not working off any kind of preset combo-list here.
No matter how many moves I get right, i don't seem to be making any more of them visible in the next series of rounds.

I'd also totally do away with the purple 'random' moves. You're trying to reward the player for learning her moves, so sticking us with an attack that's 5/7ths unknowable purples is kind of a dick move.

Also, the Preparation Skills in game are kinda...
I think I only ever used the two heal-type skills, and maybe the damage-boost one.
All the others felt either unnecessary, or something I wished I could try not but wasn't able to because I needed to be healing.

 

[SooperKrampus]

Yeah, you seemed pretty defensive about it. Which I get, it's something you're working on that you really care about so fair enough.

In regards to making it look less like a rhythm game, I don't actuallly know that there's much to be done there. I think it's because the arrows give me a real DDR sort of vibe. Maybe different colour arrows besides white would help? Or if the whole point is memorization, maybe something besides arrows?

I've noticed a lot of the same stuff as iamnuff is saying. If pattern memorization is the goal, then why are so many attacks so random? I've also noticed that some of the patterns are only the first and last arrow, and everything else appears to be random? I don't know if that's a bug or not.

I really hope blowjobs/titjobs/footjobs/ect are added, because vaginal all the time gets fairly boring. Keeping the femdom feel of the game is obviously important, so trying to keep girl on top on most of the scenes is probably the easiest way to do that, unless a bunch of the girls get mind-control type stuff, which might be fun in it's own right but isn't really my thing. Footjobs are easy enough to do in a femdom type game, and blowjobs and titjobs could be done with the girl on top in 69 maybe?

 

[TheUnsaid]

WHOAH. All of this feedback!
First, thanks for writing all of the stuff that you did! I appreciate you guys taking the time to talk to me about how you feel about the game.

I'll be responding to your posts in part.

When I played, the arrow inputs seemed near totally random. Some were revealed to you before the turn, but most were blank. The purple ones which I was warned would be 'random' were actually the only non-random ones, because they'd tell me what to press.

Ahhh I can see the confusion here. You get "free" arrows and "random" arrows are what's confusing.
OK I need to explain the "free" arrows as well.

The tutorial says they aren't completely random. First time you fight an enemy it will feel random because you don't know what their pattern is, by the third turn though you should know what it is.

But you're saying that each girl uses the same pattern each time, so you can 'remember what she likes?'
Are we really expected to... what? Memorise the button-input for every enemy type in the game?
Yeah... that's not going to happen.

It's really not that hard. Especially if you fight a bunch of them. Fate/Extra had a similar system, and you do the same thing in most JRPGs.
Also, the enemies make it easy for you by having patterns of their patterns. I'm sure you've noticed what Rouge does right. All the enemies have something like that.

The music is great, the art is great, the animation is great., but none of that will matter if your intended combat system really is 'Just remember each girl's combos'
Rote memorisation is boring.

As I've said before it's not "just" remembering the girl's actions, because there's still challenge in the game after you remember what their actions are, and even if you just have a general idea the free arrows should help you get the rest.

Not only that, but it's not like each girl's pattern can just be anything. They have patterns within their patterns.

Rouge does two of the same arrows, then the last two is two of the same arrows.

If it was just 'this girl like doing up/down/up/down strings' or 'this girl do clockwise rotations' then it wouldn't be too hard, but actual randomised strings instead of patterns make it a bugger to remember even a single girl. Trying to memorise the attacks of four or five is a no-go from the start.

Well...
Does Rouge use vertical attacks in her first pattern? Does she use Horizontal attacks in her second pattern?
If you know Bleu's first arrow, can you guess her second?

Edit: Booted the game up again to check. Fought the red girl. First round she had all up arrows. Then she had all left, then she had left/right/left/right, then she had a random burst of all four directions.

... I don't know what you mean about 'learning what she likes' because she never repeated a pattern and her order of attacks seemed totally random.
Is this... working properly?

Whenever you boot the game, the girl's patterns are a bit randomized. This is so I don't even know what the patterns really are so I can feel the same things the user does. While playing the game though, they'll be the same as you fight multiple of the same enemy.

Anyway, how I'd do it, is I'd give each girl three or four premade combos to switch between and she'd use those three combos at all speeds (so if she's at speed one and only has four moves, she uses the first four moves from combo A,B, C, or D, and at max-speed she'd use the full combo-string)

Except I'd have the character learn and remember the combos, not the player.
As in, each time a move is countered properly, that part of the combo is permanently made visible every single time she uses that combo.
If I mash random keys the first time we fight and manage to find out that the third attack on her A-combo is a left? Now every time she uses her A-combo, that third move being a left will always be visible to me.

So the first time you fight her, you don't know any of her moves, but the second time you've got chunks of each combo, and by the third time you might know her entire A-string, so if she busts that out you can perfect parry it so long as you don't fumble the inputs.
On the other hand, if she breaks out Combo D, which you haven't seen yet, you'll be fighting blind again.

Hell, maybe that's how it's supposed to work now, but I'm not seeing it at all.
Every time Red-girl gets an attack, she throws out a totally different string. As far as I can tell, she's not working off any kind of preset combo-list here.
No matter how many moves I get right, i don't seem to be making any more of them visible in the next series of rounds.

I'm thinking of a different system to get free arrows, as your recommendation would trivialize early battles and bring the player more out of the experience. In fact, in your system, the enemy will offer no challenge after a few rounds.

I'd also totally do away with the purple 'random' moves. You're trying to reward the player for learning her moves, so sticking us with an attack that's 5/7ths unknowable purples is kind of a dick move.

Ok so the pink diamonds look purple hunh.
I'll have to go make sure that's not the case.

Regarding them and their addition to the game. I mentioned this in my initial post, but it's the extra layer to strategy outside of just handling enemy patterns. If you get a handle on the enemy pattern w/o the pink arrows, the game becomes too easy, and the enemies become non-threatening. I also wanted to show their personality in some way.

That's where speed manipulation and other come in. At higher speeds knowing their pattern means less because they move in more random ways, AND you have less time to put in actions.

Also, the Preparation Skills in game are kinda...
I think I only ever used the two heal-type skills, and maybe the damage-boost one.
All the others felt either unnecessary, or something I wished I could try not but wasn't able to because I needed to be healing.

Ah.. no wonder you were struggling so hard. You didn't do any speed manipulation so you couldn't get your passives to help in lowering your lust.
Focus is a fantastic ability to use on turns when you have NO idea what to put in.
Calm is a fantastic ability, and might actually be broken right now. I still need to figure out how high it's cost is.
Slow might also be too strong even though I added in an element of randomness as well.
Psych Up and Meditate are kind of last resort skills. They're useful but not that useful, in comparison to the others.

Yeah, you seemed pretty defensive about it. Which I get, it's something you're working on that you really care about so fair enough.

If that's how I came out, I want you to know that's not what it was.
It's just that on forums conversations happen slowly and I wanted to get to the root of the issue (for other readers) from past conversations I've had with users

In regards to making it look less like a rhythm game, I don't actuallly know that there's much to be done there. I think it's because the arrows give me a real DDR sort of vibe. Maybe different colour arrows besides white would help? Or if the whole point is memorization, maybe something besides arrows?

It's not the whole point, since you've still got skill manipulation.

I've noticed a lot of the same stuff as iamnuff is saying. If pattern memorization is the goal, then why are so many attacks so random? I've also noticed that some of the patterns are only the first and last arrow, and everything else appears to be random? I don't know if that's a bug or not.

Not a bug.
If you are concerned about pink arrows then you should probably do something about them in battle right?

I really hope blowjobs/titjobs/footjobs/ect are added, because vaginal all the time gets fairly boring. Keeping the femdom feel of the game is obviously important, so trying to keep girl on top on most of the scenes is probably the easiest way to do that, unless a bunch of the girls get mind-control type stuff, which might be fun in it's own right but isn't really my thing. Footjobs are easy enough to do in a femdom type game, and blowjobs and titjobs could be done with the girl on top in 69 maybe?

Not during the battles... I think. You still need to "win" so the sex is necessary but we've got some interesting ideas to add service animations to the game.

 

[Spillthebeans]

It's a very interesting concept but I'm also struggling with the combat. Everything feels so frantic from being timed, speed increases, random buffs (and debuffs?) happening every turn, sometimes multiple at a time. It's all a little overwhelming at first. This may be an early build quirk where you're less interested in pacing and would rather show the battle system fully so I can overlook it as it is, though I do hope when you begin working on the game beyond the concept stage that it's paced a little slower initially to ease the player into the systems.

As far as abilities are concerned I got a ton of use out of the one that slows the battle speed, I forget the name but for what it did and how much stamina it cost it seemed to be very powerful, at least for how badly I played.

Sucks about patreon and it doesn't make sense. For example, I know of one game in particular that's been up there for over a year now with nothing but bestiality in it, the game isn't all that booming with just a little over 100 patrons but it's weird how some games fly under the radar while others don't regardless of success.

All that said I hope this game finds success, too rare is it to find a battlefuck type game that's as unique as this one.

 

[TheUnsaid]

though I do hope when you begin working on the game beyond the concept stage that it's paced a little slower initially to ease the player into the systems.

Of course.
Currently working on a passive equip system, tutorial review, and skill progression.

I needed the game to be at least this progressed into the systems to understand if it was fun or not, so that's why the prototype is showing all of this.

As far as abilities are concerned I got a ton of use out of the one that slows the battle speed, I forget the name but for what it did and how much stamina it cost it seemed to be very powerful, at least for how badly I played.

It is a good ability. I've got tons of statements that it's too broken for its cost.

Problem is I'm not sure about stamina regen. You regen stamina for getting correct arrows, so higher speeds helps with getting more stamina. At lower speeds you don't regain much stamina so you can't spam abilities. Since slow, and calm reduces the speed, I thought a low cost made sense, but maybe it should be the other way around?

______
Well.. regarding patreon, it's become UraMomo's general "art" patreon, so you can still support the game through it. We even give the rewards out on discord.

 

[Spillthebeans]

Problem is I'm not sure about stamina regen. You regen stamina for getting correct arrows, so higher speeds helps with getting more stamina. At lower speeds you don't regain much stamina so you can't spam abilities. Since slow, and calm reduces the speed, I thought a low cost made sense, but maybe it should be the other way around?

I don't feel like I've played the game enough to rightfully have an opinion on balance but what about making some abilities have cooldowns or a negative side effect such as less stamina regen in the following turn? I can see where you're coming from, if the stamina cost was really high it would be that much more punishing on the following turn if you couldn't regain it back as fast but maybe that could be the simple tradeoff for slowing the speed.

 

[TheUnsaid]

if the stamina cost was really high it would be that much more punishing on the following turn if you couldn't regain it back as fast but maybe that could be the simple tradeoff for slowing the speed.

Exactly.

 

[TheUnsaid]

We've heard your desire for foreplay and are currently working on it
There'll be more in the next demo of course.

 

[b4uDownload]

Looks great bro! Cant wait for it get a little more content then imma play the hell outta it!

 

[TheUnsaid]

Looks great bro! Cant wait for it get a little more content then imma play the hell outta it!

So you haven't played it yet?

 

[b4uDownload]

So you haven't played it yet?

I didn't, thought it would be better to wait for a little more content, seeing as its in the very beginning of its version. I mean i'm down if you there's multiple h scenes but i normally want my first impression of a game to be as best as possible and with what i see it looks very promising!!

Hope it makes sense

 

[TheUnsaid]

I didn't, thought it would be better to wait for a little more content, seeing as its in the very beginning of its version. I mean i'm down if you there's multiple h scenes but i normally want my first impression of a game to be as best as possible and with what i see it looks very promising!!

Hope it makes sense

Currently there's 3 but I can sorta see where you're coming from.

 

[STOPS]

There are plenty of RPGM games with patterns and intent systems for learning "what a girl likes" or her weaknesses, like Welcome to Monmusu Park or Monstergirl Dreams, like oh she has big/puffy nips, probably sensitive, or she's wiggling her ass, maybe I should hit it. I get that the arrow-battle tempo system is supposed to make it so you have to think faster and get the patterns down quicker, but in reality all it does is compound your confusion and lead you down a slippery slope of death.

Anyways I guess my point is, it sounds like you're going for some really in depth personification with this arrow system for the girls, and honestly I think it's just lost on most players at this point. Arrows are a very abstract and awkward way to show emotions/preference, like maybe if up arrow was kiss, L/R was left boob/right boob, and down was fuck or something it'd make a bit more sense, but trying to remember on the fly "Oh she's gonna lose her mind when I up up left left the fuck outta her", just doesn't really make sense. Anyways like I said this game is looking great so far, I've lurked on this site for years and this is one of the only things that has made me break that and comment, so keep it up, no matter what you do!