Unity Something Unlimited [v2.4.8] [Gunsmoke Games]

[shzilla]

 

[Gunsmoke Games]

Imagine labelling every form of criticism as an emotional response then claiming you live in factual reality, what a fuck nut.

See I can understand where you are coming from if you hadn't read the messages Mishanya wrote about 1.5 months ago where he issued his grievances. I'm not saying his criticism is invalid, I'm saying he intentionally disregarding context in order to be right. How am I supposed to address a criticism that is only used to support a lie? For instance his repeated use of Mendozas project as proof we're lying. Even a member that was involved in that project told him he's not being truthful. Moving the goalpost from way faster than a year, to a year, when Ducks even said "is it a year? I don’t know ".

The fact is no one has done what Mishanya has said is possible, and they aren't even close. SU compressed is 3.0Gb, our Android build is 1.05 Gb (that's not compressed btw). Our is 1:1 and has almost all the content in at this point.

So according to Mishayna 3 things must happen for him to be right.

1) Henshin is committing fraud
2) We started our project way later than we said, and are just lying.
3) Mendoza is not doing a great job.

Here is proof of me offering a position to Henshin in 2021


We're the only people to accomplish what he is saying. So yes that is the factual reality, not someone who seems to be upset that his understanding of this is not what really happened. If you want to discuss why I feel Mendoza's project hasn't come close to what we did, and why our took so long, we can have that discuss.

In my opinion, important that if you want to see actual criticism be addressed or discussed, it must be on what actually happened. Not what someone want's to have happened so they actually have a point.

Did they get a new PR dude? I'm surprised they stayed so long to engage with the thread after years of abandoning it.

No, we just have to make sure that people see the actual truth about what is coming out. And not let the Justice League of Misinformation and their 10 alt accounts mislead you.

 

[Gunsmoke Games]

View attachment 5154922

What till this guy finds out AI detection is BS

 

[SoulFoZoid]

So far most of the users never resorted to use AI detection software. I think it started recently because they had a gut feeling on the sentences that look shuffled or list like.

Most of the cases the gut feeling is right and a simple comparation of before and after text is the right way to determine a recent change.

Tone shift is real and can be a real tool in the arsenal. There are other tools people could use but the key is always real information usage.

Trying a more neutral way to speak, so far going with intention in my text has led to people getting the wrong idea.

 

[Gunsmoke Games]

So far most of the users never resorted to use AI detection software. I think it started recently because they had a gut feeling on the sentences that look shuffled or list like.

Most of the cases the gut feeling is right and a simple comparation of before and after text is the right way to determine a recent change.

Tone shift is real and can be a real tool in the arsenal. There are other tools people could use but the key is always real information usage.

Trying a more neutral way to speak, so far going with intention in my text has led to people getting the wrong idea.

I would tend to agree with you SoulFoZoid, but these sort of statements are merely a thin attempt at an attack. The tone change has resulted in nearly 100% increase in traffic, and we haven't had a single clarification question in months. Thank you for the advice, but we will continue on our path as we're getting better than expected results.

In my opinion these users will stop at no end to hopefully be right one day. Wait till these guys figure out AI is in MS Word.

 

[MejjeM]

Will finished SU also contain the events and characters from other games like Gotham and Themyscira?

 

[Swallows999]

So far most of the users never resorted to use AI detection software. I think it started recently because they had a gut feeling on the sentences that look shuffled or list like.

Most of the cases the gut feeling is right and a simple comparation of before and after text is the right way to determine a recent change.

Tone shift is real and can be a real tool in the arsenal. There are other tools people could use but the key is always real information usage.

Trying a more neutral way to speak, so far going with intention in my text has led to people getting the wrong idea.

Yeah, I don't know when this started but the tone of the recent posts I've been reading have been really... "off-putting" to say the least, even if I like the meat of the message. I might be in the minority though, I personally prefer a more genuine voice.

Other that that, the new project sound exciting especially with all the buzz around Marvel: Rivals! At first I was confused at how this wouldn't slow down Something Unlimited, but I searched this thread and a comment said the bottleneck in development has been coding, not art. I hope to see some of the gooner skins from Marvel Rivals carried over.

 

[Gunsmoke Games]

Yeah, I don't know when this started but the tone of the recent posts I've been reading have been really... "off-putting" to say the least, even if I like the meat of the message. I might be in the minority though, I personally prefer a more genuine voice.

Other that that, the new project sound exciting especially with all the buzz around Marvel: Rivals! At first I was confused at how this wouldn't slow down Something Unlimited, but I searched this thread and a comment said the bottleneck in development has been coding, not art. I hope to see some of the gooner skins from Marvel Rivals carried over.

Thanks for the feedback, and I want to just add some context. Previously our messaging was longer and more personal, this lead to rampant confusion, and misinformation being spread around. We would be spending resources on constant need to clarify. We have switched to a more low attention span approach to public posts, which are meant to drive more traffic, and hopefully keep the messaging clear (which both have been hugely improved).

We do have personal more "genuine voice" posts that are for patrons only (life blog type stuff at $1.00). Additionally, we have Patreon chat rooms (free ones), DMs (Discord, F95, Patreon), F95, Discord where you can get a direct line of communication from a team member. So there are numerous channels to access what you want.

There is no denying that SU development will be hit. SR7 can only create so much content yearly (it's a physical limitation). Our resolution to this is to take the scope of Project Evolution and really condense it. So the art requirments are lowered, and lean more on dialogue and some mechanics (hence the evolution). This should limit the impact to capacity on SU. Secondly, our lean approach to development will have defined breaks in development needs, which leaves space for SU development, while we iterate internally.

 

[hachidickking]

Thanks for the feedback, and I want to just add some context. Previously our messaging was longer and more personal, this lead to rampant confusion, and misinformation being spread around. We would be spending resources on constant need to clarify. We have switched to a more low attention span approach to public posts, which are meant to drive more traffic, and hopefully keep the messaging clear (which both have been hugely improved).

We do have personal more "genuine voice" posts that are for patrons only (life blog type stuff at $1.00). Additionally, we have Patreon chat rooms (free ones), DMs (Discord, F95, Patreon), F95, Discord where you can get a direct line of communication from a team member. So there are numerous channels to access what you want.

There is no denying that SU development will be hit. SR7 can only create so much content yearly (it's a physical limitation). Our resolution to this is to take the scope of Project Evolution and really condense it. So the art requirments are lowered, and lean more on dialogue and some mechanics (hence the evolution). This should limit the impact to capacity on SU. Secondly, our lean approach to development will have defined breaks in development needs, which leaves space for SU development, while we iterate internally.

Ngl if y'all focus more on su development and finished the game main story in a year and started Any other game afterward ....I think it will be received better. Mity did this with four elements trainer before they starting the titan game. Overall I wish for the best fam....y'all gonna need it

 

[Mishanya1004]

Ngl if y'all focus more on su development and finished the game main story in a year and started Any other game afterward

They won't. And I can bet you a lot that a year from now their new game won't be done either.

As for the "excuses" offered by the dev - idk where you got the idea, but I went back and rechecked my own posts, and I never once said it would take "months" or less to switch the game to Ren'Py. I also never said the ports were complete, in fact, I explicitly said otherwise - just that the copy was already functional. On top of that I admitted I was wrong when PerilousDucks pointed out that a full transfer to Ren'Py would probably take about a year, and said that this is indeed a reasonable time-frame.

The thing is, you didn't talk about a year.

I hope you can empthasize our hesitance to just jump into a 4+ year project again without carfully vetting the person to take it on.

4+ fucking years, lmao, and that while the damn port on Android still doesn't have all the features that the PC-version has. You see what factual reality we are all talking about, right? If person a claims "hey this development seems to take extremely long", person b says "yeah, it would take about x time to develop this thing", person a says "yeah that seems reasonable" and then the developer comes along and says "nu-uh you don't understand it would actually take 4 times x" then I feel I'm not the one in the wrong here.

Or am I completely misunderstanding something and is it actually fully normal that you couldn't do a full PC-ready transfer of the game in a year, then went ahead and developed two other projects in the meanwhile, and finally abandoned the game entirely and focused on other things instead? Maybe it has something to do with the outdated system you guys are using, idk. Though then again, if a basic, bare-bones, port takes "about a month" then I feel that the spaghetti code may not be as big of an issue as you want to claim.
But hey, if that is the case - and at this point, I genuinely want to hear from someone else but you since I'm getting kinda tired of you constantly accusing others of being "emotional" while at the same point straight-up lying about what they have said - then I will admit I'm wrong (on that point, at least, there are plenty of other aspects to shit on).

 

[Perniciousducks]

Or am I completely misunderstanding something and is it actually fully normal that you couldn't do a full PC-ready transfer of the game in a year, then went ahead and developed two other projects in the meanwhile, and finally abandoned the game entirely and focused on other things instead? Maybe it has something to do with the outdated system you guys are using, idk. Though then again, if a basic, bare-bones, port takes "about a month" then I feel that the spaghetti code may not be as big of an issue as you want to claim.
But hey, if that is the case - and at this point, I genuinely want to hear from someone else but you since I'm getting kinda tired of you constantly accusing others of being "emotional" while at the same point straight-up lying about what they have said - then I will admit I'm wrong (on that point, at least, there are plenty of other aspects to shit on).

A basic, barebones SU we're talking about takes about a month and has maybe the glamour slam and the cells, with maybe 1 girl worth of content. Do the math from there, it's not working in your favor. It has nothing to do with speghetti code, as there is basically no code from the original SU. It's designed through a tool called fungus where you link things together. This is why it's not easy to port and you basically rebuild it from scratch. Even with the ability to suck out all of the actual text, it's still a painstaking process to import all that shit, test it, make sure it's working. I know, I've fucking done it for 1 character and it took me forever. Just figuring it out for one doesn't mean there isn't a pain in the ass, trial and error for every character because every character is different imagery, and text layout, etc.

You are peak dunning krueger. You know jack and shit about any of this and yet go on like you know fucking everything, then someone who actually does any of it tells you something and you only read the bits you think agree with you. You are a fucking idiot.

 

[Mishanya1004]

A basic, barebones SU we're talking about takes about a month and has maybe the glamour slam and the cells, with maybe 1 girl worth of content. Do the math from there, it's not working in your favor. It has nothing to do with spaghetti code, as there is basically no code from the original SU. It's designed through a tool called fungus where you link things together. This is why it's not easy to port and you basically rebuild it from scratch. Even with the ability to suck out all of the actual text, it's still a painstaking process to import all that shit, test it, make sure it's working. I know, I've fucking done it for 1 character and it took me forever. Just figuring it out for one doesn't mean there isn't a pain in the ass, trial and error for every character because every character is different imagery, and text layout, etc.

You are peak dunning krueger. You know jack and shit about any of this and yet go on like you know fucking everything, then someone who actually does any of it tells you something and you only read the bits you think agree with you. You are a fucking idiot.

At least you managed to explain it, somehow. Still, your tone could use some major adjustment, because honestly being so angry doesn't do you any favors.

Now that we've cleared that part out, please explain to me then - without swearing, if you can - some other things:
1) I can understand that maybe it is more complex than I see it to be (btw, it is Dunning-Kruger, Krueger is a character from an 80s horror franchise) but then, why don't they, y'know, hire more people considering the revenue they make instead of y'know developing other games while abandoning their main project?

2) (and this one is addressed to GunsmokeGames as well) - If it is indeed so difficult to port the game as is then why don't they, y'know, use the original assets to remake the thing in Ren'Py? Like, fine, I understand that reverse-engineering is probably a pain in the ass, but starting the game from scratch as a parallel development process (probably) isn't. Or is it easier to continue making dumb-ass events because the simps on Patreon will further spit out money like the good little dogs they are?

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[Gunsmoke Games]

At least you managed to explain it, somehow. Still, your tone could use some major adjustment, because honestly being so angry doesn't do you any favors.

Now that we've cleared that part out, please explain to me then - without swearing, if you can - some other things:
1) I can understand that maybe it is more complex than I see it to be (btw, it is Dunning-Kruger, Krueger is a character from an 80s horror franchise) but then, why don't they, y'know, hire more people considering the revenue they make instead of y'know developing other games while abandoning their main project?

2) (and this one is addressed to GunsmokeGames as well) - If it is indeed so difficult to port the game as is then why don't they, y'know, use the original assets to remake the thing in Ren'Py? Like, fine, I understand that reverse-engineering is probably a pain in the ass, but starting the game from scratch as a parallel development process (probably) isn't. Or is it easier to continue making dumb-ass events because the simps on Patreon will further spit out money like the good little dogs they are?

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Ok Mishanya we can engage this. What Ducks stated has been address over and over, but I understand that you don't read every comment.

1) What revenue are you thinking we're making? Do you think it's fair to pay people under FMV wage for their efforts? Also, you can't just hire anyone to do this as there is sensitive stuff that if it leaks here will impact our project greatly. Lastly if you care about our revenue you're free to pitch in some lol.

We haven't abandoned our main project, we're pivoting to do more of what we want.

2)psd's are large, and not organized the way you think. How SR7 implements into Unity/Fungus, is not a 1:1 of Ren'py. Also all the resolutions are all over the place, as there is no standardization. Henshin worked off the asset pack until he caught up, as that was actually more efficient.

I want to be clear about something. On-going projects like rebuilding SU is risky, and we're pouring in real money to see it complete. 2 years of labour costs to be exact. If we lose Henshin that could set us back another year or more. My objective is to lower that risk by getting the project in your hands as fast as possible.

The events are because of how fungus works. An event is a "bare bones" SU inside Fungus, this removes the need for SR7 to work inside the fucking mess of the hub (that 's what we call it, you call it the main game). It has nothing to do with support. Meeting our internal content needs is more what drives the decision for events. If I remember either prision or the Yacth was when the idea orginiated.

Lastly Ducks gives us plenty of shit, and does so in our Discord. Guy is not afraid to speak his mind.

 

[Mishanya1004]

Okay, those are all fair points. Thanks for clearing this up (no, seriously, thanks for being transparent for once).

Could you be so kind as to explain

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Something kept bothering me during this whole thing, and then I remembered - you announced a mobile Ren'Py rebuild, with a separate programmer...back in 2019. Two years before you hired Henshin, three years into development and a whooping six years ago, even going as far as to claim it would be fully completed before the year was over, twice, once on announcement and a second time on demo release...to now justify an only partially completed version and saying it took Henshin four years and still counting to just bring it over.

(And despite my tone, I'm honestly genuinely curious about what happened to that particular version, and why you said Henshin had to start from the ground up, seeing how you managed to pump out the first - barebones - demo version all the way back in 2019).

 

[Gunsmoke Games]

Okay, those are all fair points. Thanks for clearing this up (no, seriously, thanks for being transparent for once).

Could you be so kind as to explain

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Something kept bothering me during this whole thing, and then I remembered - you announced a mobile Ren'Py rebuild, with a separate programmer...back in 2019. Two years before you hired Henshin, three years into development and a whooping six years ago, even going as far as to claim it would be fully completed before the year was over, twice, once on announcement and a second time on demo release...to now justify an only partially completed version and saying it took Henshin four years and still counting to just bring it over.

(And despite my tone, I'm honestly genuinely curious about what happened to that particular version, and why you said Henshin had to start from the ground up, seeing how you managed to pump out the first - barebones - demo version all the way back in 2019).

To be fair Mishanya I have been extremely transparent, I just don' think you trust us.

Ok first that was a rebuild in Unity, and an attempt at us building an SU outside Fungus. He wasn't a programmer, he was a marketing guy, but he wanted to learn programming. We thought that building our own talent, would be cheaper (FMV wage for someone who knows jackshit is cheap), and we could avoid the problem we had with Newman (poor work ethic). I believe later that year I fired him during one month of BoB2 development, as SR7 and him were not working together well (well no one liked this guy tbh).

Now one thing you're glazing over in the less than a year dept. SR7 was just starting the completion of cell content. The game literally had way less content in it. That in and of itself would be faster, and the fact we didn't even consider Android at this point.

So Henshin started from the ground up in Ren'py, and this was Unity. We would love to use Unity still but it's a garbage company.

 

[Perniciousducks]

At least you managed to explain it, somehow. Still, your tone could use some major adjustment, because honestly being so angry doesn't do you any favors.

Now that we've cleared that part out, please explain to me then - without swearing, if you can - some other things:
1) I can understand that maybe it is more complex than I see it to be (btw, it is Dunning-Kruger, Krueger is a character from an 80s horror franchise) but then, why don't they, y'know, hire more people considering the revenue they make instead of y'know developing other games while abandoning their main project?

2) (and this one is addressed to GunsmokeGames as well) - If it is indeed so difficult to port the game as is then why don't they, y'know, use the original assets to remake the thing in Ren'Py? Like, fine, I understand that reverse-engineering is probably a pain in the ass, but starting the game from scratch as a parallel development process (probably) isn't. Or is it easier to continue making dumb-ass events because the simps on Patreon will further spit out money like the good little dogs they are?

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He covered this above, but hiring reliable work is not cheap or easy in this particular field. For the exact same reason the vast majority of games around here fail, turn into Patreon milking garbage with no actual output (which is different than SU, which has just built a decade of technical debt they’re finally attempting to pay off. And yes, I’ve bugged them about ditching fungus and moving to ren’py for a while). It’s the same reason most of the reworks of SU also fail, though props to Mendoza for his stubborn commitment to continuing on. People burn out, people get bored, people are fucking annoying to deal with, people randomly ghost you. Nearly every successful game on here has 1-2 people working on it, and it doesn’t scale well from there.

SU has a fuck ton of content. I don’t know of any 2D art based game that comes remotely close. We can all quibble about the details of that volume, (I don’t like the Amazon style personally) but not the actual quantity. The quantity is crushing the original version. It’s why so little is done with the cells at this point. That version of fungus is a buggy mess that breaks for no reason. So they work on content that doesn’t get added because fungus does something weird. We know that’s the case because we’ve seen the content be made in streams. There is no reason to believe they wouldn’t add it if it was easy.

It’s not that SR7 is a bad coder and wrote spaghetti code. He’s not a programmer at all, so when shit breaks it’s a nightmare because it never makes sense as to why. This is also why spelling errors persist or graphical issues, especially in the cells, because they dread touching that section. Who knows what the fuck fungus will do. They’ve just avoided it like the plague, that’s why we get events now, the clusters are smaller and less prone to shitting the bed. They pushed off the change for as long as they could, then longer. Now they’re doing it. I’m sure they lament the months of time wasted fighting with fungus, but that’s coming to an end and having worked with ren’py, they get how much less time they will burn debugging.

The other game actually works out well, imo, to put something out for patrons while they wait on getting that mountain rebuilt. As long as it stays small, it’s not a huge coding investment and is more of an art investment. Yeah, it extends the SU update a bit, but it’s not like it’s entirely on hold.

People just need to understand how small the scope is for powerslave.

This is just how I see it as someone who often disagrees with their choices, but mostly enjoys the art and big chunks of the game, and wrote my own stupid 20 page doc on how I would build SU from scratch from the ground up that everyone would hate because I think multiple outfits are a waste of time and if these bitches were just naked all the time I could much more easily head swap assets to give girls way more content even if the positions are shared.

 

[The French Tickler]

This episode of Law & Order sucks major ass.

 

[dudebrochet]

He covered this above, but hiring reliable work is not cheap or easy in this particular field. For the exact same reason the vast majority of games around here fail, turn into Patreon milking garbage with no actual output (which is different than SU, which has just built a decade of technical debt they’re finally attempting to pay off. And yes, I’ve bugged them about ditching fungus and moving to ren’py for a while). It’s the same reason most of the reworks of SU also fail, though props to Mendoza for his stubborn commitment to continuing on. People burn out, people get bored, people are fucking annoying to deal with, people randomly ghost you. Nearly every successful game on here has 1-2 people working on it, and it doesn’t scale well from there.

SU has a fuck ton of content. I don’t know of any 2D art based game that comes remotely close. We can all quibble about the details of that volume, (I don’t like the Amazon style personally) but not the actual quantity. The quantity is crushing the original version. It’s why so little is done with the cells at this point. That version of fungus is a buggy mess that breaks for no reason. So they work on content that doesn’t get added because fungus does something weird. We know that’s the case because we’ve seen the content be made in streams. There is no reason to believe they wouldn’t add it if it was easy.

It’s not that SR7 is a bad coder and wrote spaghetti code. He’s not a programmer at all, so when shit breaks it’s a nightmare because it never makes sense as to why. This is also why spelling errors persist or graphical issues, especially in the cells, because they dread touching that section. Who knows what the fuck fungus will do. They’ve just avoided it like the plague, that’s why we get events now, the clusters are smaller and less prone to shitting the bed. They pushed off the change for as long as they could, then longer. Now they’re doing it. I’m sure they lament the months of time wasted fighting with fungus, but that’s coming to an end and having worked with ren’py, they get how much less time they will burn debugging.

The other game actually works out well, imo, to put something out for patrons while they wait on getting that mountain rebuilt. As long as it stays small, it’s not a huge coding investment and is more of an art investment. Yeah, it extends the SU update a bit, but it’s not like it’s entirely on hold.

People just need to understand how small the scope is for powerslave.

This is just how I see it as someone who often disagrees with their choices, but mostly enjoys the art and big chunks of the game, and wrote my own stupid 20 page doc on how I would build SU from scratch from the ground up that everyone would hate because I think multiple outfits are a waste of time and if these bitches were just naked all the time I could much more easily head swap assets to give girls way more content even if the positions are shared.

This is actually a really interesting and insightful breakdown. Thank you.

 

[Swallows999]

He covered this above, but hiring reliable work is not cheap or easy in this particular field. For the exact same reason the vast majority of games around here fail, turn into Patreon milking garbage with no actual output (which is different than SU, which has just built a decade of technical debt they’re finally attempting to pay off. And yes, I’ve bugged them about ditching fungus and moving to ren’py for a while). It’s the same reason most of the reworks of SU also fail, though props to Mendoza for his stubborn commitment to continuing on. People burn out, people get bored, people are fucking annoying to deal with, people randomly ghost you. Nearly every successful game on here has 1-2 people working on it, and it doesn’t scale well from there.

SU has a fuck ton of content. I don’t know of any 2D art based game that comes remotely close. We can all quibble about the details of that volume, (I don’t like the Amazon style personally) but not the actual quantity. The quantity is crushing the original version. It’s why so little is done with the cells at this point. That version of fungus is a buggy mess that breaks for no reason. So they work on content that doesn’t get added because fungus does something weird. We know that’s the case because we’ve seen the content be made in streams. There is no reason to believe they wouldn’t add it if it was easy.

It’s not that SR7 is a bad coder and wrote spaghetti code. He’s not a programmer at all, so when shit breaks it’s a nightmare because it never makes sense as to why. This is also why spelling errors persist or graphical issues, especially in the cells, because they dread touching that section. Who knows what the fuck fungus will do. They’ve just avoided it like the plague, that’s why we get events now, the clusters are smaller and less prone to shitting the bed. They pushed off the change for as long as they could, then longer. Now they’re doing it. I’m sure they lament the months of time wasted fighting with fungus, but that’s coming to an end and having worked with ren’py, they get how much less time they will burn debugging.

The other game actually works out well, imo, to put something out for patrons while they wait on getting that mountain rebuilt. As long as it stays small, it’s not a huge coding investment and is more of an art investment. Yeah, it extends the SU update a bit, but it’s not like it’s entirely on hold.

People just need to understand how small the scope is for powerslave.

This is just how I see it as someone who often disagrees with their choices, but mostly enjoys the art and big chunks of the game, and wrote my own stupid 20 page doc on how I would build SU from scratch from the ground up that everyone would hate because I think multiple outfits are a waste of time and if these bitches were just naked all the time I could much more easily head swap assets to give girls way more content even if the positions are shared.

To be fair, I do think that some fan projects probably fail just because they don't have the financial incentive of getting paid. I imagine it must be difficult to do consistent work (and sort through the problems you listed) just with passion and love of the game.

 

[Perniciousducks]

To be fair, I do think that some fan projects probably fail just because they don't have the financial incentive of getting paid. I imagine it must be difficult to do consistent work (and sort through the problems you listed) just with passion and love of the game.

Getting paid helps, but people burn out even with that incentive. Just because you're getting paid for what you love doesn't mean it doesn't also just become work. Not getting paid to put in the stupid amount of time required for minimal progress certainly wipes out any incentive to put the time in for many. Especially with 2d art based games. I find 3D games generally progress faster do to the lower time/skill commitment for assets, though occasionally they do put in extra effort and that drags those projects out as well.