Jul 30, 2023
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I honestly don't see that much of a contrast between the two scenes in terms of writing quality.
I honestly find this claim outright surprising, because to me, it's getting close to a clear and objective difference and I don't know how you don't see it.
The clear difference for me is in the intent: one is a light-hearted comedic scene where the MC is put into an uncomfortable position but is ultimately rewarded for his actions because of his good intentions; the other is a pure power fantasy where the MC 'stops holding back'.
Rani makes it very clear in the intended route of the game that she could DIE soon in there and Lenore is not spared those tears in the good-natured MC version. I had no expectation she was going to come out of that alive personally and was very ready for it to be a scheme where Dave tricked her into killing herself or for her to be in a position to manipulate the MC to go along with Dave/HanZi/Lenore/Rydick's scheme. Now that didn't happen and that's fine, but I just didn't read it as lighthearted, and I think there are quite a few elements there that keep it from appearing that way.
The MC isn't reduced to hysterically and helplessly crying for help as he's getting attacked, and more crucially, he's the one being taken advantage of vs. actively being the one attacking someone. All of these scenes are optional, and it's up to the player if they happen, so it does kind of make a difference whether you're choosing for the nurse to touch you or to mercilessly assault her.
He was reduced to tears a few times and often enough if you look at the walkthrough, we end in death ALOT of the time. Frankly, what 'should' be expected happen to the MC by the flow chart alone, would be for all this to just end in death. Also, I think after the 12th time you are taken advantage of, you'd grow a little hardened. Now that's most people the MC has killed people at this point. The shifter and some number of demons which we know are fundamentally humans. Also, the optionality of these scenes is optional to us the player, not to him. There would still be a difference but I think if there is a moral chasm, it's really tiny in universe.
It may seem like splitting hairs, but these are fundamentally two different fantasies, and they are written very differently. And the latter scenes, I'm assuming, will never be canon in the main story.
They let you be very cruel to Rick, not the most optimal scene but it's a good one. That one they left you with the option to do it and to leave it there to hurt him. It's not the same energy but we are very close as it is.
If the game was being written as a "bullying victim turning the tables on his former bullies" revenge story, I could maybe see a reason for the MC to develop in this direction
How about this: "I know where this is going, I'm going to save myself this time"
But at this point, the MC is on good or OK terms with most of the cadets and crew
That is a variable. You could legitimately be on everyone's bad side in this game as far as I can tell. If he isn't willing to ruin lives, his potential enthusiasm for sector nine is an interesting choice.
Even then, I can't really see SA as something that's done tit for tat, tbh
Doesn't have to be tit for tat, it just has to lose all it's moral weight which I think it already has
 

WazawaiDa

Member
May 8, 2023
237
414
Now that didn't happen and that's fine, but I just didn't read it as lighthearted, and I think there are quite a few elements there that keep it from appearing that way.
It was light-hearted to me because the whole premise is absurd and funny. No one actually gets stuck in washing machines irl (afaik), it's a silly porn plot. While there is some urgency to get her out for the characters, the scene is mostly focused on getting them naked and sticky to create a misunderstanding (and also some titillation, ofc).

He was reduced to tears a few times and often enough if you look at the walkthrough, we end in death ALOT of the time. Frankly, what 'should' be expected happen to the MC by the flow chart alone, would be for all this to just end in death.

Also, the optionality of these scenes is optional to us the player, not to him. There would still be a difference but I think if there is a moral chasm, it's really tiny in universe.
I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What I mean when I say that the encounters are optional is that, if the player doesn't want the MC to end up in peril, there are options to avoid that. Most of the scenes have an option to end them prematurely and to completely stop the characters from coming onto him. So it's completely possible for the MC to go through the game without being assaulted.

And it's clearly supposed to be seen as a bad thing in-universe. Multiple characters mention how unprofessional the crew is, how the lower ranks are taken advantage of, etc. It's kind of part of what makes the MC doubt the morality and righteousness of SpaceCorps, amongst other things.

They let you be very cruel to Rick, not the most optimal scene but it's a good one. That one they left you with the option to do it and to leave it there to hurt him. It's not the same energy but we are very close as it is.
When I was talking about scenes being non-canon, I meant specifically the scenes where the MC SA's someone. The Rick encounter is instead an example of a scene where the MC is able to turn the table on someone being aggressive with him. It's not like he just walks up to Rick and starts taunting him out of nowhere about how his girlfriend is cheating on him.

In general, the game punishes the player for jerk-like behaviour. Usually, choices where the MC is casually cruel to someone result in losing points with the characters, premature endings or game overs.

How about this: "I know where this is going, I'm going to save myself this time"

Doesn't have to be tit for tat, it just has to lose all it's moral weight which I think it already has
I don't think the situation for the MC is literally kill or be killed, and it's definitely not enough to warrant him behaving like this. And it would be one thing if he was just on the defense and standing his ground in some situations, but actively attacking someone for no reason makes no sense to me.
 
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perles75

Active Member
May 16, 2020
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The starting point of the discussion is that the (usually bad ending) scenes where Jimmi behaves like a bastard are better written and flow better than the 'canon' ones where he's a good boy. Honestly I don't see that much of a difference in quality, and I assume you think that because it's something you enjoy more. It is not, however, in line with the backstory and I totally understand and approve why they are bad endings for now.
I can actually see that Ranli will give an opportunity for the player to play Jimmi as a bully or a jerk (there is, after all, a fully dedicated kink to it), but that will appear down the line, not so soon.
 
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