VN Ren'Py Abandoned Stormside [v0.23.1.4] [Atemsiel]

[Merlin-Magic]

The truth is, no one really knows what is going on with this game . I check all the time. There is nothing on Patreon, except a community message from last month. There have been no regular posts or dev logs. The regulars on his discord do not know anything either. Only Atem really knows what is going on at this point, so until he says something, no one will know what that is. If anything at all shows up, I will post it here , but until then....

 

[reid1]

On itch somebody said that the Discord group doesn't exist anymore. Is that true? This was my fav AVN I'd be incredibly sad if this game will get abandoned.

 

[wonky1977]

On itch somebody said that the Discord group doesn't exist anymore. Is that true? This was my fav AVN I'd be incredibly sad if this game will get abandoned.

The discord is still there, I was just checking it this morning. The custom invite link has expired. I believe that is enabled in the "Server Boost" feature. It is possible that a subscriber was paying for the boost and decided not to anymore.

 

[Wolfeszorn]

Just realised i posted in the wrong game thread. my mistake -.-

As for this game: Yeah, still no update since christmas :/

 

[capt_obviously]

The discord is still there, I was just checking it this morning. The custom invite link has expired. I believe that is enabled in the "Server Boost" feature. It is possible that a subscriber was paying for the boost and decided not to anymore.

That's exactly what happened. The discord server lost boosts and now the custom link doesn't work. It was listed on the itch page and only Atem has the rights to change it. I don't think it's high on his todo list when there isn't any new content ready to share.

I've never though Atem was trying to take anyone for a ride or milk something, but I do think he has taken on a a project with incredible scope and just can't mange it all alone.

He is trying to do intricate branching with both micro and macro story and scene changes based on choices, complex interactions between LIs, and many facial expression changes throughout scenes.

Any one of those things a solo developer could probably manage, maybe even two. All three at once is a recipe for burnout.

Atem mentioned this on patreon when he checked in last month:

The annoying part of the development is that month to month, all I might have to report is "I made two different versions of a scene I already told you about." which I'll admit feels kinda weak to tout as some kind of update. It's progress of course, but doesn't sound like it.

If he can get over the hump and get all the LIs locked into a route I think it will be much more manageable (while still being incredibly complex), especially if he can write scenes to only include a few LIs at a time to reduce variations. That's a huge if though, and likely 18-24 months away at least.

 

[Vibesy]

That's exactly what happened. The discord server lost boosts and now the custom link doesn't work. It was listed on the itch page and only Atem has the rights to change it. I don't think it's high on his todo list when there isn't any new content ready to share.

I've never though Atem was trying to take anyone for a ride or milk something, but I do think he has taken on a a project with incredible scope and just can't mange it all alone.

He is trying to do intricate branching with both micro and macro story and scene changes based on choices, complex interactions between LIs, and many facial expression changes throughout scenes.

Any one of those things a solo developer could probably manage, maybe even two. All three at once is a recipe for burnout.

Atem mentioned this on patreon when he checked in last month:


If he can get over the hump and get all the LIs locked into a route I think it will be much more manageable (while still being incredibly complex), especially if he can write scenes to only include a few LIs at a time to reduce variations. That's a huge if though, and likely 18-24 months away at least.

You are sort of telling us stuff we already know and which also doesn't tell us much of anything. That the game is too ambitious and complex for him to manage has been blatantly obvious to most of us for a long time.

It would be good to know if he is still working on the game tho. He has done a total of two posts on Patreon since August, which seem to be timed to avoid the abandoned tag here. He hasn't posted openly on discord since September. The game hasn't been updated since January 2024 and the last major update was September 2023.

A pretty basic update would be the number of renders completed since the last update, lines coded etc, ETA for update completion. Instead we keep getting reports that he is stuck in some sort of loop, rendering the same scene over and over. He may not be milking, but he also doesn't look particularly motivated to advance things.

 

[sexypeanut]

Sadly, I think Stormside will end up being abandoned. As others have said: game is too ambitous and complex for just 1 dude to carry its torch. It's a pity, because I want to see more Cassie scenes...

 

[The_Ismand]

At some point i started percieving AVN projects as mathematical equations, mostly addition and multiplication based.
Number of main and side LI's, linearity of the story, amount of decisions, etc., each having their own value in terms of workload and skill requirement.
Calculate the equation and i get an abstract number in my head.

Then make a similar calculation based on the developer. Are they a part timer, full timer, a pair or an actual team with several areas of expertise? Does he/she/they have any previous experience with AVN related work areas (coding, writing, animation, drawing, etc.), have they completed any previous projects? Does the developers posts give the impression that they are an amateur riding on the creative highs of a new hobby or are there hints at them having thought things through like a professional?

If the developers abstract and vague number roughly matches the AVN projects number, then it stands a chance of reaching completion. My personal impression is that the ratio of unviable projects really started to go up from 2022 onwards. That would explain the current string of abandoned projects.

As for staying on topic within this thread, well, capt_obviously already mentioned the trio of things Atem needs to work on simultanously, which will easily make Stormside a 10 year project, unless he scales down on several aspects. Things like dropping all sidegirls or merging the 3 styles of relationsship into 2. Hell, we haven't even been properly introduced to 2 of the 7 main LI's.

I was about to comment on how Atem is probably still doing this as a part-time job, but here i am looking at some very healthy patreon numbers. He almost doubled the number of backers since last january where the latest version got released.
The current number seems big enough to go full-time.
Still, full-time doesn't mean much if you have lost the creative drive or find yourself imprisoned by your own perfectionism, redoing the same work 3 times on a monthly basis.

 

[Pixillin']

I never pressure a dev on speed, even on games I pay for. I'll criticize anything else about a game - art, animations, writing, character development, etc - but I want the dev to put out the game they want to put out. I don't want all of those other things to suffer because the dev was rushing to give people an update. It has been a long time on this one, and having ADHD, I know how hard it can be to look at a pile of tasks and not know where to start but abandoned games happen too. It's probably well over half of the games that get started. So I don't freak out much about that either. Put out quality, or bail on the project but don't churn out garbage because people were yelling at you.

 

[Daermon420]

I never pressure a dev on speed, even on games I pay for. I'll criticize anything else about a game - art, animations, writing, character development, etc - but I want the dev to put out the game they want to put out. I don't want all of those other things to suffer because the dev was rushing to give people an update. It has been a long time on this one, and having ADHD, I know how hard it can be to look at a pile of tasks and not know where to start but abandoned games happen too. It's probably well over half of the games that get started. So I don't freak out much about that either. Put out quality, or bail on the project but don't churn out garbage because people were yelling at you.

I agree with giving devs time to cook without pressure. It'd lead to a better product in the end I think. Sadly that'll never be the case because there will always be some out there in any fanbase who are both impatient and rude enough to demand or even threaten over what they deem too long a wait.

However I do think the dev should at the very least keep communicating with their fanbase, even if only to give status updates. And if they can't continue anymore, say so. Don't just ghost the community they've built around their game.

 

[Vibesy]

The rule is 18 months with no update or 3 months with no communication, not 6 months. So this game is close to getting the abandoned tag, but it's not there yet. That being said, I disagree with the posters above who think pressure is a bad thing in the creative process. Rather I think it essential since it clarifies the mind. Without pressure you get a lot of aimless, self indulgent projects and irrelevant filler with endless timelines and no accountability. Even the best artists are subject to pressure whether it be from publishers, investors or ex-wives. My feeling is that if you accept money for a job you should be under constant pressure to deliver. If you can't deal with that, then do it as a hobby and don't accept donations.

 

[Krytax123]

Then make a similar calculation based on the developer. Are they a part timer, full timer, a pair or an actual team with several areas of expertise? Does he/she/they have any previous experience with AVN related work areas (coding, writing, animation, drawing, etc.), have they completed any previous projects? Does the developers posts give the impression that they are an amateur riding on the creative highs of a new hobby or are there hints at them having thought things through like a professional?

Do you have any examples of "teams" which enhanced the speed/quality? I know a few avns which started with 2 devs and worked quite well or outsourcing animations but i dont know a single avn which went a route of multiple employes and got better/faster due to it.

All devs who turned into some kind of company just utterly sucked afterwards and didnt even got faster (hi freshw**en)

I agree with giving devs time to cook without pressure. It'd lead to a better product in the end I think. Sadly that'll never be the case because there will always be some out there in any fanbase who are both impatient and rude enough to demand or even threaten over what they deem too long a wait.

However I do think the dev should at the very least keep communicating with their fanbase, even if only to give status updates. And if they can't continue anymore, say so. Don't just ghost the community they've built around their game.

I disagree, there has to be some kind of "normal" expectations, devs who are only able to produce 1-2k renders a year dont deserve a lot of support imo and cant expect it.

I mean you can do whatever you want but when you put a project like that on patreon and even more at steam there will be expectations which is fine if the devs intend to earn money with the product.

 

[Sinchanted]

Finally got around to playing this...are there more completed games out there that have characters like Olivia in them? I'm a sucker for the "taming" routes of bitchy characters, even if it's a more gentle version of it.

 

[Vibesy]

Finally got around to playing this...are there more completed games out there that have characters like Olivia in them? I'm a sucker for the "taming" routes of bitchy characters, even if it's a more gentle version of it.

Fashion Business, but I don't recommend that game at all.

 

[Bob89rt]

The rule is 18 months with no update or 3 months with no communication, not 6 months. So this game is close to getting the abandoned tag, but it's not there yet. That being said, I disagree with the posters above who think pressure is a bad thing in the creative process. Rather I think it essential since it clarifies the mind. Without pressure you get a lot of aimless, self indulgent projects and irrelevant filler with endless timelines and no accountability. Even the best artists are subject to pressure whether it be from publishers, investors or ex-wives. My feeling is that if you accept money for a job you should be under constant pressure to deliver. If you can't deal with that, then do it as a hobby and don't accept donations.

Thanks for clearing it up, how that status works. I've noticed a few games I was playing get the abandoned tag very quickly and in around 6months. I am sure he's logging on to discord more frequently. Milking any fanbase. Which is why they're still waiting for it. A shame we all liked it.

Yes, agreed, everybody, shouldn't be afraid to speak about it, in support or in complaint. There are only complaints when it has been over a year. Many subbed. I know I did. But I stopped last year in the spring right before summer when it decided to insert polling. Polling is largely bullshit, content that was going to be added anyway, so why isn't it? What did polling do? Milk it. Look polls. Tiers, to vote on content that should have been added anyway. By the time oh but crowd strike, excuses. No, where is a simple release. You'd make that funding back by releasing something. Instead it's a bunch of excuses later. Until there is no content in over a year.

It's dead. Obviously like everybody here we all want it. But sadly we aren't getting it? That's on the dev. Any activity outside your explanation is doing something to keep this level of activity on a dead game.

 

[Pixillin']

Without pressure you get a lot of aimless, self indulgent projects and irrelevant filler with endless timelines and no accountability. Even the best artists are subject to pressure whether it be from publishers, investors or ex-wives. My feeling is that if you accept money for a job you should be under constant pressure to deliver. If you can't deal with that, then do it as a hobby and don't accept donations.

That's not me - I certainly wouldn't complain about speed on a game I'm not paying for, but obviously patrons can do what they want. With the games I support, I know what the Dev is up to (at least in a general sense) and I leave them to it. Like I said, I want their best work, not their fastest. This game might be abandoned, I don't know - I'll be happy if it pops up on my checker but I'm not sitting here holding my breath for any of them.

 

[The_Ismand]

Do you have any examples of "teams" which enhanced the speed/quality? I know a few avns which started with 2 devs and worked quite well or outsourcing animations but i dont know a single avn which went a route of multiple employes and got better/faster due to it.

All devs who turned into some kind of company just utterly sucked afterwards and didnt even got faster (hi freshw**en)

Honestly, no, not at the top of my head. I agree that in the few cases where i know the team were expanded, it coincided with a drop in quality or just an uneeded change in the overall vision. Like, i think i know a developer who started as an actual team (at least 3 members), but the number of new team members, even if most only joined as part timers, increased only slightly faster than the number of projects that they were working on. Even if most of the projects were of the short simple kind, yeah, thats rough. Developers whose teams expanded after the startup phase doesn't have a good track record.

My point about teams generally being preferably to solo devs is mostly just me being sick and tired of all these first time devs coming up with all these grandiose and elaborate ideas and then watching their projects crash and burn. Or more likely, wither and fade away.

I think i could name a few developers (pairs/trios) with projects that roughly matched or matches their productivity and capabilities. Sure, we also have solo devs amongst the giants of the AVN sphere, but i would say that they are just a different breed. Maybe they worked as professional game-devs before going independent. Maybe they are naturally talented and also a workaholics.
Another important thing is that they built up their careers and reputation when the medium was still young and fresh. Trust levels were naturally higher back then, many tropes had yet to become overused and you needed less PR to really get going.
Also, bad PR is probably another reason many projects fall apart. The AVN you mentioned is perhabs a PR miracle, because i only ever hear about how very Mid it is. And yet it is in the top 25 of adult game devs on patreon earning the big bucks.

I disagree, there has to be some kind of "normal" expectations, devs who are only able to produce 1-2k renders a year dont deserve a lot of support imo and cant expect it.

I mean you can do whatever you want but when you put a project like that on patreon and even more at steam there will be expectations which is fine if the devs intend to earn money with the product.

Yes, while i will agree that devs are often subject to critique that is needlessly hostile and derogatory in nature, most people padding the devs backs and saying "A rushed game is always bad, but a delayed one is eventually good. Take all the time you need." isn't helping the medium either. I am far more selective about what devs i support now than compared to 2-3 years ago. And i rarely support for more than a few months at a time. The distrust and scepticism is real. And that is probably another reason new projects keeps failing more and more. A negative feedback loop.
True milkers are honestly rare i think, but holy crap do we have a lot of otherwise competent devs who absolutely suck at project management.

 

[Krytax123]

Honestly, no, not at the top of my head. I agree that in the few cases where i know the team were expanded, it coincided with a drop in quality or just an uneeded change in the overall vision. Like, i think i know a developer who started as an actual team (at least 3 members), but the number of new team members, even if most only joined as part timers, increased only slightly faster than the number of projects that they were working on. Even if most of the projects were of the short simple kind, yeah, thats rough. Developers whose teams expanded after the startup phase doesn't have a good track record.

My point about teams generally being preferably to solo devs is mostly just me being sick and tired of all these first time devs coming up with all these grandiose and elaborate ideas and then watching their projects crash and burn. Or more likely, wither and fade away.

I think i could name a few developers (pairs/trios) with projects that roughly matched or matches their productivity and capabilities. Sure, we also have solo devs amongst the giants of the AVN sphere, but i would say that they are just a different breed. Maybe they worked as professional game-devs before going independent. Maybe they are naturally talented and also a workaholics.
Another important thing is that they built up their careers and reputation when the medium was still young and fresh. Trust levels were naturally higher back then, many tropes had yet to become overused and you needed less PR to really get going.
Also, bad PR is probably another reason many projects fall apart. The AVN you mentioned is perhabs a PR miracle, because i only ever hear about how very Mid it is. And yet it is in the top 25 of adult game devs on patreon earning the big bucks.



Yes, while i will agree that devs are often subject to critique that is needlessly hostile and derogatory in nature, most people padding the devs backs and saying "A rushed game is always bad, but a delayed one is eventually good. Take all the time you need." isn't helping the medium either. I am far more selective about what devs i support now than compared to 2-3 years ago. And i rarely support for more than a few months at a time. The distrust and scepticism is real. And that is probably another reason new projects keeps failing more and more. A negative feedback loop.
True milkers are honestly rare i think, but holy crap do we have a lot of otherwise competent devs who absolutely suck at project management.

Yeah i can agree with all of that.

Just a little thing: even the good "team" devs like for example race ** l**e are not faster than the good solo devs so im not sure if for example a writer would reaaaallly increase atemsiels possible development speed that much.

Someone doing the animations would probably save a lot of time but thats one of the area's atemsiel excells himself in and its more like other devs are paying him to outsource their animations

Tbf to the devs, you have to got a lot of talents to produce an avn and really good artists are often not really great at being organized or structured lmao, they would probably be less creative if they were.

Maybe they need publishers or at least managers

 

[Pixillin']

Yes, while i will agree that devs are often subject to critique that is needlessly hostile and derogatory in nature, most people padding the devs backs and saying "A rushed game is always bad, but a delayed one is eventually good. Take all the time you need." isn't helping the medium either.

I never said, or meant that. I just mean that I want to play the game the dev wanted to make - the one that made them sit down and start writing, not the one they ended up with because people who were giving them a few dollars a month (or less) couldn't wait or insisted they take the game in new directions. Devs start making things they didn't want to or turning out updates that they know could have been way better and it almost always shows - a game that was originally good, is suddenly terrible and the story has stopped making sense or the characters personalities have completely changed. I want the dev to be happy with what they've produced.

 

[The_Ismand]

I never said, or meant that. I just mean that I want to play the game the dev wanted to make - the one that made them sit down and start writing, not the one they ended up with because people who were giving them a few dollars a month (or less) couldn't wait or insisted they take the game in new directions. Devs start making things they didn't want to or turning out updates that they know could have been way better and it almost always shows - a game that was originally good, is suddenly terrible and the story has stopped making sense or the characters personalities have completely changed. I want the dev to be happy with what they've produced.

The quote that i mentioned is mostly just a general abstraction of comments i see every now and then and not a direct reference to anything you wrote earlier.
I also support the notion that devs should mostly make the project their own thing. Listening to your paying backers and considering every detail of their suggestion is another way to derail a project.