Recommending Story-first games

[kotte]

I don't collect telemetry on my games (who wants to play an erotic game that tracks them?), but it would be interesting to know what percentage of people play through once vs what percentage play enough times to see most of the branches.

Perhaps someone should make a poll about this...

For me personally, I normally feel that multiple playthroughs "dilute" my experience of the story (assuming that I am playing a story-first game). I might allow myself to go back and fix bad choices if necessary to follow the story the way I want, but I don't do a second playthrough (at least not until way later, when I have forgotten a lot of the story anyway).

An exception to the rule is games like Toro7, where the alternate route(s) feels like a completely different story. I hesitated a lot before starting to go through the alternate different paths, but I did not regret it. It felt like getting several stories that happened to take place in the same setting.

 

[jufot]

In my original idea, I didn't see the harem as being completely avoidable on the good path.

Making the harem unavoidable would preclude any truly happy endings, which might be too high a bar.

isn't this whole idea triggering enough already?

Perhaps, but I don't think merely feeling guilty is enough if MC partakes in the harem. "MC was a good guy who felt a bit bummed about abusing women along the way" is not much of a consequence.

It's a fundamentally messy situation and I don't see the MC coming out of it completely pure and unsullied.

Sure. Even in the "best" path, he can become disillusioned with the nature of humanity and come to recognize that cruelty is inherent to hierarchy. His initial optimism fades away, and he ends up a cynical misanthrope.

I think the corruption path should [...]

Your corruption path sounds a lot better than mine. It's more cerebral and realistic as opposed to my cartoon villain

 

[TranscendentThots]

Random aside: I did a

You must be registered to see the links

. Sure, there's only like four you'll usually use, but some of the more interesting choices have use cases I didn't expect. Like making the narration First-Person Past Perfect sounds like they're giving testimony at a trial.

My bad, guys. I accidentally linked to the wrong URL. That was one of the references I was using to refresh my verb tense knowledge. I have corrected the link in the original post, but I just wanted to make sure that everybody knows I did not write that article, and it was never my intention to suggest that I wrote that article. I just pasted the wrong url into the link.

 

[Bom969]

after going through the list, few suggestions came to mind:
1) Depraved Awakening: Loved it overall
2) Welcome to free will
3) Seeds of Chaos
4) to be a king
5) Rise of the Crime Lord

 

[moskyx]

A Father's Sins has reached its 13th chapter with a mere handjob and an interrupted lesbian scene as the only sexually explicit content so far (well, that's if we don't count the naked shots as sexually explicit content, and many of them aren't exactly sexy unless you're into gore) so I think it may be worthy of being discussed in this holy thread. Fully disclosure, I was approached by the game's dev some months ago to translate it into Spanish, which I agreed to, and have been also offering some humble advice to Pixieblink since then, but I must say it has quickly become one of my favorite stories in this site. I think some of you are also helping Pixie with other tasks and maybe this has refrained us from discussing the game, but I think it really deserves some praise.

Sure, it's yet another story of a Chosen One MC, but this time you are not supposed to be the good one, nor the evil one: you've been chosen by the Grey, which brings a bit of fresh air to the trope and could give the story the option to explore some philosophical questions in addition to the religious ones, although that's yet to be seen. Choices are few and far in between, and the game sometimes leans a bit too much (to my tastes) on the gore-y side of horror, but there's also some silly humor to alleviate the tougher moments, in a complex balance: despite the emotional stories and the horror scenes, the game doesn't take itself too seriously. Music and animations are really immersive, and nuns in sexy leather outfits fighting against demons are always welcome. Characterization is good, there are mysteries around every corner, and a new update each month. Even if it now feels more like a kinetic novel than a proper game, I'm really interested in seeing how it goes.

 

[jufot]

A Father's Sins

It's a nice game. There is an interesting story brewing, though it's too early to tell where it'll end up.

I think some of you are also helping Pixie with other tasks and maybe this has refrained us from discussing the game, but I think it really deserves some praise.

I used to do proofreading for him until a few chapters ago, but he's been silent for a while.

Sure, it's yet another story of a Chosen One MC, but this time you are not supposed to be the good one, nor the evil one: you've been chosen by the Grey

I get the point of the Grey Lady, but I don't think it really works. The Misericordae are supposed to be in the middle between good and evil, not picking sides. Except they've been picking sides since the beginning. Think about it, since chapter 1 they've done nothing but fight monsters. Even Maddy's story about what happened in Paris is a simple good vs evil holy war.

So the main cast are very much the good guys in all but name. I think the only real impact of the Grey is the game mechanic with MC's ring. He is supposed to keep it "balanced". Since he is a lecherous man who uses magic to peek under the clothes of innocent women, the ring tends to lose power, which he has to rebalance with good deeds. It works, sure, but somehow I doubt that's what the Grey Lady had in mind with the ring

 

[SiuKim]

after going through the list, few suggestions came to mind:
1) Depraved Awakening: Loved it overall
2) Welcome to free will
3) Seeds of Chaos
4) to be a king
5) Rise of the Crime Lord

Depraved Awakening was truly ahead of it's time

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

A Father's Sins has reached its 13th chapter with a mere handjob and an interrupted lesbian scene as the only sexually explicit content so far (well, that's if we don't count the naked shots as sexually explicit content, and many of them aren't exactly sexy unless you're into gore) so I think it may be worthy of being discussed in this holy thread.

Jesus Christ, am I glad I didn't start to play that. I liked his previous game, even though the humor aspects were a little cringe at times, but at least it had sex scenes. This game looked like a snoozefest from the start and I guess I was right.

I'm prefer my games to have a decent story, but if there's no sex at all? Nah, thanks.

 

[moskyx]

I get the point of the Grey Lady, but I don't think it really works. The Misericordae are supposed to be in the middle between good and evil, not picking sides. Except they've been picking sides since the beginning. Think about it, since chapter 1 they've done nothing but fight monsters. Even Maddy's story about what happened in Paris is a simple good vs evil holy war.

So the main cast are very much the good guys in all but name. I think the only real impact of the Grey is the game mechanic with MC's ring. He is supposed to keep it "balanced". Since he is a lecherous man who uses magic to peek under the clothes of innocent women, the ring tends to lose power, which he has to rebalance with good deeds. It works, sure, but somehow I doubt that's what the Grey Lady had in mind with the ring

That's actually mentioned somewhere in the game. The Grey do must pick sides to keep the balance, and this time She has chosen the MC to fight demons because evil was getting too strong. The way I see it, the ring being charged when doing good deeds has nothing to do with the way its energy is used when performing magic: it's not that he has to counterbalance her bad use of the reveal spell, but just to recharge his batteries to keep performing magic no matter what the tricks were. And to keep using the ring's magic, its bearer must do what the Lady wants him to do: good things, at least this time around.

So, to me, the real twist would be the moment in which, thanks to the MC's good actions, the good starts winning the battle and becomes too strong for its opponent so the Lady decides that it's time for her to support evil in order to keep the Balance. And then her loyal order of female warriors, who have been instructed for decades, maybe centuries, to fight demons... would need to support them instead, or at least to stop their holy fight for a while. How would they react? How many of them would have actually managed to understand their actual role in this endless battle? How would they start instructing the new recruits for this new purpose of their order? Now that would be really interesting to see, but maybe the game is not that ambitious. Anyway, I'm enjoying the ride so far, it's a little gem.

 

[jufot]

The Grey do must pick sides to keep the balance, and this time She has chosen the MC to fight demons because evil was getting too strong.

What a lucky coincidence then! It seems all our characters, including Maddy and her cop friend, were born just in time to always fight monsters and never any good guys, whoever they are

So, to me, the real twist would be [...] Now that would be really interesting to see, but maybe the game is not that ambitious.

That would be a delightful twist, but I don't see this game posing such moral questions to the MC, let alone to the player. It's too light-hearted for that.

I would also question the idea of The Grey's supposed neutrality if they've been on the same side non-stop for centuries. Also, if that's the case, should they be neutral? If the baddies are so powerful that they still haven't been defeated after centuries of fighting, what moral high ground is there to claim some nebulous neutral stance?

 

[moskyx]

What a lucky coincidence then! It seems all our characters, including Maddy and her cop friend, were born just in time to always fight monsters and never any good guys, whoever they are


That would be a delightful twist, but I don't see this game posing such moral questions to the MC, let alone to the player. It's too light-hearted for that.

I would also question the idea of The Grey's supposed neutrality if they've been on the same side non-stop for centuries. Also, if that's the case, should they be neutral? If the baddies are so powerful that they still haven't been defeated after centuries of fighting, what moral high ground is there to claim some nebulous neutral stance?

There are good, evil, and grey. It's just the state of things and this balance has to be protected because of... reasons. The status is said to have shown up in times of need for the good, but maybe these Misericordiae are just her tool to balance the evil, while She has an opposite order of succubi or whatever to fight back when good is on the verge of a total win, and She shows up (maybe animating a different statue or whatever) at other places and times where She's needed. The Grey is just a last-minute reinforcement for the losing side so that no one ever wins and neither the good nor the bad are totally erased. Both sides are needed, and someone else has to look out for them in case they hurt each other too much.

 

[noping123]

Jufot, I just wanted to take a quick moment to pop in and respond to your post here:


I thought I knew. I thought I was prepared.


I was. not.

Being a couple months into the process now, as it turns out, it is WAY more work than I anticipated. In order to keep the pace I sort of set for myself, I'm working an extra couple hours a day lately to make sure I don't fall behind my own expectations. (Not that I'm bothered by this... honestly I only started doing so intentionally when I noticed I was already spending a couple hours more per day and figured I just might as well keep it up).


I don't have much more to add to this thread, as I haven't had time to even *think* about other games lately - although I suspect once I finish I'll take a bit of time and go on a binge.

 

[schinoize]

Tentative recommendation for Lycoris Radiata. It's hard to share my thoughts on the story without spoilers, so first let me quote the synopsis:


On a high level, the plot revolves around two very different people occupying the same body, but only one having the memories of both. The story is about the mystery of how this came to be, and the impact of the new person's introduction into the older one's family.

While there is plenty of comic relief to break the tension, I think the story is overall a tragedy. The major characters are all struggling to make peace with the presence of an entirely new person in the body of someone they deeply love. Likewise MC, being the new person, is having a very hard time with it and is quite abrasive with his newfound family.

This is not a porn game. It has a bunch of annoying anime tropes (for which my tolerance is very low), but the narrative is strong enough for me to ignore that. It took me ~3 hours to read through existing chapters. So far, there is almost no romance (MC is not an affectionate person) and only one very softcore sex scene. In fact, I don't think I have seen a single penis! Not even in the sex scene

So if you like (or can tolerate) anime nonsense, you should give this one a shot because underneath the surface, there is a seriously solid character drama here.

I'd love to hear some thoughts from anyone who has played it. I'll wait till the next chapter before adding the game to the OP.

Thanks for (tentative) recommendation. I'm no expert on Anime, I don't really watch it or read manga, however I still like the "nonsense" and was planning to read an AVN covering these tropes for a while. Maybe I'm biased because of that but I really liked it and am looking forward to the next chapters.
Whether or not it belongs to the OP, don't think I can really answer that. I guess you could say it's still quite a few females (albeit all interesting and more than capable) "circling" around the MC (well, two MCs).

If anyone who also played it knows similar ones, feel free to bring them to my attention.

 

[EndlessNights]

If anyone who also played it knows similar ones, feel free to bring them to my attention.

You might try Demons of the Hearth. Jufot's description of Lycoris Radiata immediately reminded me of it because it also features a MC who shares his mind with other entities and it's also quite anime-influenced. I enjoy it primarily for the terrific worldbuilding, intriguing story, and the politics of the Hearth.

I suppose you could call it a harem game, but it's the kind that I tend to find more believable: no one claims to be the MC's girlfriend, no one talks about love, and there don't seem to be any imminent plans to stick everyone in a mansion where they'll all live happily ever after. I tend to think of it as taking place in an alternate universe where committed romantic relationships are out of vogue and hookup culture is the norm...we just don't happen to know if the LIs happen to have other side guys/girls (probably for business reasons). I think it largely passes the "Hildegardt harem test": there is definitely much more to the characters than their common attraction to the MC. They all have their own interests, ambitions, agendas, and plans for the future.

 

[jufot]

You might try Demons of the Hearth.

Well, you have me intrigued. The artwork feels off-putting, but I'm willing to chalk that up to my anime related biases. How annoying is the sandbox?

 

[EndlessNights]

Well, you have me intrigued. The artwork feels off-putting, but I'm willing to chalk that up to my anime related biases. How annoying is the sandbox?

I don't find it particularly annoying -- in practice, the sandbox just involves traveling to different locations to talk to/interact with different people, and you can always see where the major characters are located at a particular time. There is also a built-in guide that can tell you who to talk to at what time in order to advance the story if you find yourself perplexed (and it probably will happen from time to time).

 

[TheDarkSide]

Salting The Earth would fit the criteria. Though on top of being a pure lesbian VN, it's also fantasy and all your LIs are muscle girl orcs and MC herself is a fantasy satyr-esque race. So might not be everyone's cup of tea. Still quite a well written VN with multiple paths and endings.

 

[TranscendentThots]

There are good, evil, and grey. It's just the state of things and this balance has to be protected because of... reasons. The status is said to have shown up in times of need for the good, but maybe these Misericordiae are just her tool to balance the evil, while She has an opposite order of succubi or whatever to fight back when good is on the verge of a total win, and She shows up (maybe animating a different statue or whatever) at other places and times where She's needed. The Grey is just a last-minute reinforcement for the losing side so that no one ever wins and neither the good nor the bad are totally erased. Both sides are needed, and someone else has to look out for them in case they hurt each other too much.

I've never really understood this interpretation of "balance." It was dumb when George Lucas did it in the prequels, and it got even dumber when a generation of writers raised on said prequels copied George Lucas without actually understanding what "balance" is or even really what "good" and "evil" actually mean.

Arbitrarily changing which side you're helping win a perpetual war between good and evil only prolongs and exacerbates the war. It makes sense if you're an arms dealer, providing weapons to both sides. In that very specific case, making the war last longer makes you more money. In all other scenarios, prolonging the conflict doesn't "balance" anything. It just causes chaos and destruction as the body counts mount and both sides get increasingly desperate.

Don't write your "neutral" characters as kingmakers constantly doing heel-face-heel-face-turns in a never-ending battle between cartoonishly Good and Evil forces. That's dumb. You're just making them flip-flop whenever it's convenient to advance the plot and raise the stakes. Your readers can plainly see that it's not really a big shocking plot twist that makes sense in-universe. It's just the hand of the author.

Instead, write neutral characters as actually complex characters unimpressed by both sides and making decisions for reasons other than good or evil. Even a "rebel without a cause" makes more sense. At least with that trope, they know they're in it to do as much damage as possible to both sides for no personal gain.

Better still, make them a double agent, playing both sides and not getting found out by either side, not even the protagonists until the very end. Just make sure you give them a consistent motive that the audience can see as laudible or at least relatable when it's finally revealed. (Patriotism, revenge, wanting to prevent a past mistake from repeating itself, whatever.) Or a master manipulator, keeping themselves out of the fray while subtly profiting from the status quo as they nudge it along with a series of Xanatos Gambits.

Anything but routinely changing which God you help win a massive holy war. That's a good way to get both sides to try and kill you after one double-cross each, just to remove your chaos and escalation from the battlefield so they can get down to the serious business of winning.

In conclusion, I'm going to turn things over to The Greatest Neutral Character In All of Fiction to sum up my stance on the issue:

 

[jufot]

Toro 7's new chapter is out for patrons

 

[Tlaero]

I hope you folks like it! It'll be available to the public tomorrow.

Tlaero