Recommending Story-first games

[realjitter]

The

You must be registered to see the links

comes from Japanese media (manga, anime, light novels, games) and is by no means unique to AVN's. Really common in webnovels as well.

bacienvu88 1 realjitter 0

 

[Dragon59]

Picking up all the side characters along the way seems pretty standard for male protag AVNs of every kind. I don't think anyone even sees this as a specific fetish anymore. In comparison fem protag corruption games usually have a lot of teasing in the beginning and don't even let you get the boy.

You make it sound like Sexual Katamari.

To me it seems like the male protag equivalent of corruption games are cuckold and humiliation games, probably because we live in a society. I can't think of any good ones on the level of GGGB, though.

 

[MrSilverLust]

You could do a male corruption game, but it is unlikely that you'd do one where you convince a single man to have sex. It would need to be something like convincing a guy in a stable relationship to cheat, or something like that. I wouldn't enjoy that, but, maybe someone would

I tried to pull off a similar theme in one of the storylines of my game.

The male MC is a psychologist and starts the game in a tough spot because, in the past, he got into a forbidden affair with a patient.

One of the LIs is a new patient he gets when he starts a new job elsewhere. As the story develops, you can tell that she's starting to have feelings for the mc, and is even trying to seduce him.

The player can decide to fall for the temptation and make the same mistake again, or resist it. This is done via a series of choices that somewhat change the dialogue here and there.

However, I don't think players feel like the MC is being corrupted, eventhough you can definitely look at the story like that. The issue is, if the player resists, there isn't any corruption happening, the MC remains "pure". If, on the other hand, the player wants the LI, then, they will make the choices that get them closer to the LI and it might even feel like the MC is the one corrupting the LI into being with him. After all, he's the one in the position of power over her, and he's making all the choices that can lead to an affair.

There have been, however, a few players that posted saying that they really, really wanted to do the right thing and not get involved with the patient... but ended up throwing all their beliefs out of the window at the moment of the truth and got involved with her.

I think that, in this scenario, those players might feel like the mc (and themselves as a proxy) ended up "corrupted" into doing the wrong thing (who/what corrupted him, though? The patient that wanted him? The position of power he has over her for being her psychologist? The forbidden love, if they really like each other? Lust?)

What is interesting to me is that I, the author, have little control over if this story is felt as the MC being corrupted, or as the MC being the one doing the corruption. It all depends on the intent of the player towards the LI. It has to feel like they wanted to resist her, but ended failing.

There are some people here that have played my game. I wonder if you guys have ever even considered this as a male mc corruption plot.

 

[camube]

I tried to pull off a similar theme in one of the storylines of my game.

The male MC is a psychologist and starts the game in a tough spot because, in the past, he got into a forbidden affair with a patient.

One of the LIs is a new patient he gets when he starts a new job elsewhere. As the story develops, you can tell that she's starting to have feelings for the mc, and is even trying to seduce him.

The player can decide to fall for the temptation and make the same mistake again, or resist it. This is done via a series of choices that somewhat change the dialogue here and there.

However, I don't think players feel like the MC is being corrupted, eventhough you can definitely look at the story like that. The issue is, if the player resists, there isn't any corruption happening, the MC remains "pure". If, on the other hand, the player wants the LI, then, they will make the choices that get them closer to the LI and it might even feel like the MC is the one corrupting the LI into being with him. After all, he's the one in the position of power over her, and he's making all the choices that can lead to an affair.

There have been, however, a few players that posted saying that they really, really wanted to do the right thing and not get involved with the patient... but ended up throwing all their beliefs out of the window at the moment of the truth and got involved with her.

I think that, in this scenario, those players might feel like the mc (and themselves as a proxy) ended up "corrupted" into doing the wrong thing (who/what corrupted him, though? The patient that wanted him? The position of power he has over her for being her psychologist? The forbidden love, if they really like each other? Lust?)

What is interesting to me is that I, the author, have little control over if this story is felt as the MC being corrupted, or as the MC being the one doing the corruption. It all depends on the intent of the player towards the LI. It has to feel like they wanted to resist her, but ended failing.

There are some people here that have played my game. I wonder if you guys have ever even considered this as a male mc corruption plot.

good luck with the next update release!
I personally don't see it as male corruption

 

[Tlaero]

There have been, however, a few players that posted saying that they really, really wanted to do the right thing and not get involved with the patient... but ended up throwing all their beliefs out of the window at the moment of the truth and got involved with her.

I think that, in this scenario, those players might feel like the mc (and themselves as a proxy) ended up "corrupted" into doing the wrong thing (who/what corrupted him, though? The patient that wanted him? The position of power he has over her for being her psychologist? The forbidden love, if they really like each other? Lust?)

I think it's super cool that you effectively corrupted the players themselves. It takes good storytelling to affect the emotions of your readers. Well done!

Tlaero

 

[camube]

oh, Projekt Passion just got a new update. Ended their Season 1.

You must be registered to see the links

I think it's way better than Eternum in terms of script consistency. By script consistency I mean the way the MC acts and behaves towards others. And how others also acts. It's just consistent.

Not to mention MC is (can be) funny, if you choose the funny answer options every time. lol.
It's really great. It slowly teases bigger plot too.

It's a funny game at it's core, but it teases an overarching plot, and despite it being funny, it treats it's characters and their personality very seriously. So it makes them feels human. This is the part that I feel makes it better than Eternum.

While DeLuca is unbeatable to me in terms of how fun the characters are to read, Projekt Passion is the game I look forward for it's next updates the most. Out of everything. Even more so than BaDIK at this point.

It just fits my taste the best.
Best "game" to "play" is definitely ORS, but top 3 of my favorite AVN game has Projekt Passion after Update 7 in it for sure.
The game just keeps getting better.

On the contrary, I haven't really gotten over my unsatisfaction with BaDIK Episode 9, pretty much because it doesn't advance the main plot. It's pretty much just "calm before the storm" but the wait time was far too long for what we got with the update.
So I'm waiting for Episode 10 and hoping Episode 10 would advance the plot.

 

[EndlessNights]

There are some people here that have played my game. I wonder if you guys have ever even considered this as a male mc corruption plot.

Personally, I didn't. As you pointed out, something needs to have caused the corruption and broken down the MC's will to resist. I certainly can't see Jen as some kind of scheming temptress. She's a good, caring, and sincere person who is younger and less experienced than the MC. She didn't have any master plan to bring him down or break him -- she simply fell for him. She can understand intellectually why patients and psychologists shouldn't be involved in relationships as a general rule, but she knows herself and she thinks she knows the MC. In her mind, no one is really being taken advantage of and no power is really being abused in their relationship. It's really up to the MC to decide how much he values professional ethics, how vulnerable Jen really is emotionally, and if he values doing the proper or right thing more than love.

There's also the MC's prior relationship with Mel to take into account despite the limited information we have about it. You could say the MC is already corrupted because of that past history and is merely trying to redeem himself (and perhaps not even that). He's already failed to live up to the code of his profession. He's already chosen love or lust over his work and potentially over his patient's mental health before. Maybe pursuing vulnerable patients is just something he does and part of who he is as a person so there's really no further corruption needed for him to go after Jen. Any resistance he feels might be more about self-preservation than morality (I really don't think he's that far gone, but then again I've never tried approaching the Jen path with that mindset). The corruption that's there in that case would be internal and something that's built up over many years before the story even began.

I prefer to think of my personal Jen playthrough as a dangerous romance where the MC decided he was willing to risk his career for love. He doesn't want to hurt Jen or take advantage of her in any way and worries that he is...but he's fallen hard for her and his emotions have utterly overwhelmed his intellect and his willpower. I tend to assume that's probably what happened with Mel as well. So I see my MC in that playthrough as a true romantic who is terrible at his job and should absolutely under no circumstances ever be in a position to treat patients again...but please don't call him corrupted! (At least not unless we're going to start calling every romantic story which involves a character doing something foolish or morally questionable for the sake of love a corruption story.)

 

[Canto Forte]

The staple in corruption is silence of the lambs and the masterfully acted out hannibal series,
when we are talking about professionals whose job it is to literally twist minds to get results.
Lecter is never the bully, never the riper, whenever he takes on patients.

Spoiler: Thoughts and praise

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

There are all sorts of clients, most of which want to be molded and changed and reconstructed
by someone they see as a guru - a very sad place to be as a therapist.

So, when such clients come along - lost, in limbo, down on their luck, clueless, unwilling,
MC has to step up and make the steps to plot out a recovery plan, cheer them, scold them,
essentially mother them into shape. Fathering them is pretty hard, on the other hand,
unless MC asserts himself and actively engages to keep the fathered clients on their toes.

Whenever MC forgoes the reigns, letting his sweetheart girl pull him into her insanity,
that is the muse twisting the heart and wrecking the braint into deep desire and lust voids,
they pull and constrict the mind into coin ing ways to let her have her way, be herself.

MC is in a unique position to be body and mind invested in someone with everything he is,
mind, skill, body, soul- literally make his beloved the brightest star of his universe and have
her shine all the glory onto him, give him the warmth, the light, the pull and reason to be
everything she ever wanted and needed and adored in her life, bare and do it all for her.

 

[bacienvu88]

Personally, I didn't. As you pointed out, something needs to have caused the corruption and broken down the MC's will to resist. I certainly can't see Jen as some kind of scheming temptress. She's a good, caring, and sincere person who is younger and less experienced than the MC. She didn't have any master plan to bring him down or break him -- she simply fell for him. She can understand intellectually why patients and psychologists shouldn't be involved in relationships as a general rule, but she knows herself and she thinks she knows the MC. In her mind, no one is really being taken advantage of and no power is really being abused in their relationship. It's really up to the MC to decide how much he values professional ethics, how vulnerable Jen really is emotionally, and if he values doing the proper or right thing more than love.

There's also the MC's prior relationship with Mel to take into account despite the limited information we have about it. You could say the MC is already corrupted because of that past history and is merely trying to redeem himself (and perhaps not even that). He's already failed to live up to the code of his profession. He's already chosen love or lust over his work and potentially over his patient's mental health before. Maybe pursuing vulnerable patients is just something he does and part of who he is as a person so there's really no further corruption needed for him to go after Jen. Any resistance he feels might be more about self-preservation than morality (I really don't think he's that far gone, but then again I've never tried approaching the Jen path with that mindset). The corruption that's there in that case would be internal and something that's built up over many years before the story even began.

I prefer to think of my personal Jen playthrough as a dangerous romance where the MC decided he was willing to risk his career for love. He doesn't want to hurt Jen or take advantage of her in any way and worries that he is...but he's fallen hard for her and his emotions have utterly overwhelmed his intellect and his willpower. I tend to assume that's probably what happened with Mel as well. So I see my MC in that playthrough as a true romantic who is terrible at his job and should absolutely under no circumstances ever be in a position to treat patients again...but please don't call him corrupted!

I 100% agree with this.

However I think the Kim storyline can count as male corruption. Both the blackmail and cheating paths. In the cheating path it is similar to Jen in that he is seduced into doing something he knows he shouldn't, but here it is something he has never considered doing before (cheating with his friend's wife). In the blackmail path he is coerced into doing something he doesn't want to do.

 

[MrSilverLust]

As you pointed out, something needs to have caused the corruption and broken down the MC's will to resist. I certainly can't see Jen as some kind of scheming temptress. She's a good, caring, and sincere person who is younger and less experienced than the MC. She didn't have any master plan to bring him down or break him -- she simply fell for him.

I agree with all that you have written, and, yet, I still think it can be seen as a corruption plot.
However, I think what I'm trying to say is that I think that corruption is subjective.

But maybe we have different views/definitions about corruption. I see it like this:

- Character A has a belief of what is the correct thing to do.
- Character A wants X.
- To get X, Character A has to do something that goes against their belief.
- There's some internal conflict, but, in the end, Character A does that something to get X.
- By the end, Character A might even have changed their initial believes and what they consider acceptable, due to cognitive dissonance.

In GGGB, corruption of Ash follows that path with two common tropes that everyone can understand: money and fame.

- Ash starts as a good girl and believes it's wrong to be a slut and sleep around (and potentially cheat on her boyfriend)
- Ash also wants money, new pretty clothes, be famous on social media and become an influencer like her friend.
- Arthur offers her money and clothing; posting more slutty/nude pics gets her more likes and comments online; having sex with the rapper lets her have a major role in a famous music videoclip (I think that's the plot, I might be wrong), etc
- There's an internal conflict on Ash's mind: will she accept to have sex with Arthur, the father of his (ex?-)boyfriend and an older man a bit fat she might not even be attracted to), in exchange of money and clothes? Will she show her body online and risk having everyone she knows thinking she's a slut in exchange of more internet points? Will she sleep with the raper in exchange of being the star on his videoclip?
- By the end, she might even think there's nothing wrong with having a sugar daddy/being a slut/being an"onlyfans model" and trading her body/sex for money/fame.


In media, female corruption typically involves her giving her body and beauty (aka sex) because, in our culture, being a slut = bad and being "pure"/virgin = good. Sex with a young, beautiful, "pure" woman is something of high value.

Male corruption, on the other hand, almost never involves man having sex against their best judgment because, in our culture, sleeping with many women = something to be proud of. And sex with a man is something easy to get, so it's not a high reward by itself. Instead, it usually involves giving up moral values to get more money/power. For example:

- Young man wants to change the world for the better - by being an honest politician for example.
- To do that, young man also needs to be in a position of power and have money for his political campaigns.
- He quickly realizes that he can only rise in power by offering favors to other people in exchange of their support.
- This goes against his believes, but he does what he gotta do.
- By the end, when he gets to a position of power, he has become exactly the same thing he swear to destroy: he wouldn't be allowed to get that far otherwise. He might even believe that the ends justify the means and he's better than his predecessors.


I think the plot of my game with Jen follows a similar structure:
- mc wants to follow his professional moral code and thinks it's bad to sleep with patients.
- He's also attracted to Jen, a patient, someone he should definitely not sleep with.
- He realizes he can sleep with her, but he has to give up his moral believes.
- By the end, he might even believe that "he's just a romantic doing something foolish in the sake of love" =p


What I think I am claiming is that, to perceive any of these plots as "corruption" you need to:
- agree with the initial believes of Character A;
- disagree with their final racionalization of their behavior;

Otherwise, if you think there's nothing wrong with being a slut, having a sugar daddy, or being an onlyfans model, GGGB story is not about a good young girl being corrupted by money and fame. Instead, it's about female empowerment; it's about a young girl sexually repressed by society that slowly starts to gain control over her sexuality and her body, and do whatever she wants - you go, girl!; it's about a young entrepreneur that starts a new business and it's rather successful at it. What was the "corruption" here again? Even the word corruption has a bad connotation: if you don't think anything wrong is happening, why would you call it that?

Similarly, NIF's story is not about a man being corrupted by lust and forgoing his values to get the forbidden fruit. Instead "it's a dangerous romance where the MC decided he was willing to risk his career for love".

The reason we quickly recognize the first story as corruption it's because it's easier to agree with its premises: being a slut/sex worker/sugar baby = bad. But both stories follow the same structure. Exactly the same present in the "original corruption" story:

Ash, or my MC are Eve;
-Money/fame, or Jen are the forbidden fruit;
-Wanting more money/fame, or lust for Jen are the snake; (is this where the analogy falls apart? In GGGB, the snakes actually are Arthur/rapper/people that like/comment/pay Ash for her nudes? Do you need a person to corrupt another, or an abstract concept like lust/power can also be the snake? I've always heard that power corrupts, so I'm inclined to think that lust can also corrupt. Is it the difference just between lust and love? If you think mc is falling for lust = bad and corruption, if you think he's falling in love = good and romantic/love story? )
-Giving up your initial believes (having sex for money, or having sex with a patient) is eating the apple.

In the cheating path it is similar to Jen in that he is seduced into doing something he knows he shouldn't, but here it is something he has never considered doing before (cheating with his friend's wife).

Yup, I agree with this as well.

But, why do you consider cheating with Kim corruption, but not sleeping with Jen? Is it because you agree with the initial belief (cheating with your friend's girlfriend is bad) and disagree with the final rationalization (there's nothing wrong with giving a woman what she needs sexually, even if her partner is a friend of yours)? And in Jen's cases you agree with the initial belief (it's wrong to sleep with patients), but you also agree with the rationalization (it's okay to do foolish things in the name of love)?

Or is it really just because there needs to be a person corrupting another? In breaking Bad, [spoilers ahead] who corrupted Walter White into going from a good family man into being a drug lord that wanted to be in the "Empire Business", and continued making meth even after having more money than he needed, if not his taste for being, at least once in his life, the most powerful man in his backyard?

Or is it because it has to be a novel event, something the MC never considered before? (MC already had slept with Mel, but had never cheated with a friend's partner. This seems like a rather narrow definition of corruption: can't someone be corrupted, try to do better, but ended up corrupted again? Example: Girl A is a recovered heroin addicted that almost lost everything for her addiction. Thanks to her loving family she went to rehab and recovered. She meets bad guy X that corrupts her in trying heroin once again. She falls for it. They have sex while high. She becomes an addict again and ruins her life, steals from her lovely family to get money for drugs, trades sex for drugs, etc. Is this not a corruption story because Girl A already tried heroin before? If we change genders and the story is about Boy B recovering of his addition, but he's corrupted by bad woman Z, is it still a corruption story? Or the "innocent girl" got corrupted and it's a tragic story, but the "foolish" Boy B just got what he deserved because actions have consequences and he should have known better? Is it just easier to recognize as corruption fiction with female protagonists, because of our society's bias for thinking that women are fragile, naïve and innocent, and need to be protected from "Bad Things/People" that corrupt them?

Some other reason that has nothing to do with this and I am missing the point completely?



-------
Anyway, I'm just now thinking about all of this and I'm not sure it's correct. Is there any flaws in this reasoning?
I also don't know why I find this is interesting, but I do. Quite a lot. Go figure xD

But I don't know why this would be important for anything xD. Better go finish my update instead of write so much here!!

 

[bacienvu88]

I agree with all that you have written, and, yet, I still think it can be seen as a corruption plot.
However, I think what I'm trying to say is that I think that corruption is subjective.

Yeah, I agree that corruption is subjective. But that is mostly(?) because morals are subjective. Some people may think that someone who who hires an incompetent nephew does something good because family always comes first. Others may view the same thing as nepotism and something bad. Then is the person who hired the nephew corrupt or not?

Then there is of course also the case that there is a degree of corruption. Is telling a white lie a path to corruption? And so on.

But maybe we have different views/definitions about corruption. I see it like this:

- Character A has a belief of what is the correct thing to do.
- Character A wants X.
- To get X, Character A has to do something that goes against their belief.
- There's some internal conflict, but, in the end, Character A does that something to get X.
- By the end, Character A might even have changed their initial believes and what they consider acceptable, due to cognitive dissonance.

The point EndlessNights is making (at least my interpretation of) is that MC is already at at least the fourth point at the start of the game.

Or is it because it has to be a novel event, something the MC never considered before? (MC already had slept with Mel, but had never cheated with a friend's partner. This seems like a rather narrow definition of corruption: can't someone be corrupted, try to do better, but ended up corrupted again?

And here we get to degrees of corruption. How much "try to do better" do you need to do to climb back up the corruption ladder again?

But I can agree that MC gets his corruption further cemented.

having sex with the rapper lets her have a major role in a famous music videoclip (I think that's the plot, I might be wrong)

Just want to point out that you don't need to have sex with Tyrone to get a role in the music video. All you need is to dance with Tyrone and have enough fame (maybe, don't remember). In fact the full on sex comes after (you can give a blowjob before).

Male corruption, on the other hand, almost never involves man having sex against their best judgment because, in our culture, sleeping with many women = something to be proud of. And sex with a man is something easy to get, so it's not a high reward by itself. Instead, it usually involves giving up moral values to get more money/power.

Not sure I agree. Plenty of stories where a man cheats on wife and then his life unravels. This should count as "having sex against their best judgement". There is also stories about sex with your boss, employee's and so on that also leads to bad outcomes. Or the male lead is seduced by a woman from the enemy camp and gives up crucial information to them. Or to take something from real life: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky"

Anyway, I'm just now thinking about all of this and I'm not sure it's correct. Is there any flaws in this reasoning?
I also don't know why I find this interesting, but I do. Quite a lot.

Fwiw, I don't think our positions are that far from each other.

I just don't know why this would be important for anything though xD. Better go finish my update instead of write so much here!!

 

[jufot]

Corporate Culture's latest update was great. I shared some thoughts here.

 

[Canto Forte]

Read the thoughts. This is a game where MC is assuming a peon role to Elsa.
MC is having real breakthoroughs with his neighbor, but squanders everything being a simp to Alice
and a slave to Elsa. He cannot even throw a tantrum or get a word in without this game shitting on him.
This is when anyone steve jobs level accepts opinions from people never invested into anyhting in their lives.
You cannot strive by being a tool for broads who only know to fkk or belittle people, it is all Elsa and Alice do.
MC accepting to be their ragdoll, since they are both in a safetynet business of burning their parents money.
The whole The Speach movie is about the wrong+unprepared+in over his head- king assuming reign.
Why is it unheard of for MC to become king from regicide?
Are players all that old to forget actual history?
Why is it that anyone would ever want Elsa, the puppet master, to win?
The hero was always Pinocchio, never Giuseppe.
All Daedalus ever achieved was to be a footnote to the Labirinth, the true hero is Theseus.
How hard would it be to actually put whatever history/Ancient mithology anyone read to good use?

 

[jufot]

Why is it that you want Elsa, the puppet master, to win?

Because Elsa is the only interesting one. I want Edward to become a better man and leave his cynical egotism behind, but beyond that I care very little for him because his goals are so... boring. He "wants" a woman he idolizes, is creepily obsessed with, and knows nothing about. He also wants to become a corporate hotshot. That's it? And I'm supposed to root for him? Pass.

 

[Canto Forte]

Elsa never achieves anyhting, all her life right now is going clubbing, blowing guys to persuade them
to get her outta trouble, when MC is plot thrown into her to be her slave, ragdoll, toy.
All of those by her own admission. She never wants anything at her job, while MC wants to succeed,
she wants to burn her parents money to bring down the very firm MC wants to succeed in.
When she gets stuck at her job, MC comes throwing himself under her feet, like the slave this game makes him be.
She never achieves anything. She tells MC anyone with even one brain cell would get her fired for the shit she pulls.
But not MC, the incel slave offered to her on a plate for literally nothing by this game.
What a conundrum.

the male lead is seduced by a woman from the enemy camp and gives up crucial information to them

Welcome to every bond movie ever made.

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms Lewinsky"

 

[DaFlurbIsHere]

I tried to pull off a similar theme in one of the storylines of my game.

The male MC is a psychologist and starts the game in a tough spot because, in the past, he got into a forbidden affair with a patient.

One of the LIs is a new patient he gets when he starts a new job elsewhere. As the story develops, you can tell that she's starting to have feelings for the mc, and is even trying to seduce him.

The player can decide to fall for the temptation and make the same mistake again, or resist it. This is done via a series of choices that somewhat change the dialogue here and there.

However, I don't think players feel like the MC is being corrupted, eventhough you can definitely look at the story like that. The issue is, if the player resists, there isn't any corruption happening, the MC remains "pure". If, on the other hand, the player wants the LI, then, they will make the choices that get them closer to the LI and it might even feel like the MC is the one corrupting the LI into being with him. After all, he's the one in the position of power over her, and he's making all the choices that can lead to an affair.

There have been, however, a few players that posted saying that they really, really wanted to do the right thing and not get involved with the patient... but ended up throwing all their beliefs out of the window at the moment of the truth and got involved with her.

I think that, in this scenario, those players might feel like the mc (and themselves as a proxy) ended up "corrupted" into doing the wrong thing (who/what corrupted him, though? The patient that wanted him? The position of power he has over her for being her psychologist? The forbidden love, if they really like each other? Lust?)

What is interesting to me is that I, the author, have little control over if this story is felt as the MC being corrupted, or as the MC being the one doing the corruption. It all depends on the intent of the player towards the LI. It has to feel like they wanted to resist her, but ended failing.

There are some people here that have played my game. I wonder if you guys have ever even considered this as a male mc corruption plot.

No, but that's because I played like a monk and rejected every single possible LI or fling (not because as the game stated I/MC was so damaged he was unable to love anyone ever again, just because the didn't float his boat). But some of the LIs definitely were corruptors and if MC engages with them, then yes, it can be seen as a male corruption game experience.

 

[yossa999]

Elsa never achieves anyhting, all her life right now is going clubbing, blowing guys to persuade them
to get her outta trouble, when MC is plot thrown into her to be her slave, ragdoll, toy.
All of those by her own admission. She never wants anything at her job, while MC wants to succeed,
she wants to burn her parents money to bring down the very firm MC wants to succeed in.
When she gets stuck at her job, MC comes throwing himself under her feet, like the slave this game makes him be.
She never achieves anything. She tells MC anyone with even one brain cell would get her fired for the shit she pulls.
But not MC, the incel slave offered to her on a plate for literally nothing by this game.
What a conundrum.

Two people can play this game Elsa is the Drunken Master and the MC is still a weak, vulnerable and clumsy apprentice who wants to learn Kung Fu in a couple of days. She had to discipline him for his own good, so yes, he's her slave at first, like any newbie who wants to learn from an old school master. It seems from outside that all the trainee does is run errands for the master, sweep the steps of the temple and drag water into the boiler in the kitchen. But we, hardened fans of the countless kung fu movies, know that this is a part of training that has the deepest philosophical and practical meaning. In the blink of an eye, he will master the way of a drunken warrior and will break pussies bricks with a slight poke of his finger.
Speaking of achievements, she has comprehended the Tao and therefore does not need to prove herself in chasing other corporate rats. Only the spiritual matters, for example, to help the MC find the Way.

 

[realjitter]

I don't know, to me corruption is always a too big of a word for the topics at hand. Seduction, manipulation, coercion, propaganda and what have you. All these terms fall under the umbrella of corruption. So when it comes to me, I associate corruption, mostly, with something negative. A person or a group of people wants to achieve something for, most of the time, selfish reasons while at the same time completely disregarding the people/person on the receiving end. Feeding on the weak for whatever their goal is basically. Well, mostly it's about influence, power and of course wealth.

Cult leaders corrupt, religious speakers (can) corrupt, politicians (can) corrupt, dictatorships corrupt. An AVN MC/character?, he doesn't corrupt in my mind. He manipulates or seduces someone for almost always the same reason which is simply having sex with that other person. Corruption, to me, is mostly a term for the bigger topics. So if someone states that Jen's trying to manipulate the MC in order to hit the sack with him or whatever, that's something I can understand. But if someone says that Jen's trying to corrupt the MC to fall for her, that's a bit too much for me personally.

I can only refer to that hotel scene where the player basically decides if the MC's supposed to fall for her or if he rejects her or if he doesn't care and just wants to see the lewd scene (i've rejected her). To me in that scene Jen just simply tests the waters and tries to make a move. No manipualtion or "corruption" involved in my mind. Seduction, sure. Maybe if you want to look closely enough you could say that she tries to coax him into it (I don't remember to be fair), But even the word coaxing would already be stretching it in my mind. I'd have to read it again though...

 

[EndlessNights]

However, I think what I'm trying to say is that I think that corruption is subjective.

But maybe we have different views/definitions about corruption. I see it like this:

- Character A has a belief of what is the correct thing to do.
- Character A wants X.
- To get X, Character A has to do something that goes against their belief.
- There's some internal conflict, but, in the end, Character A does that something to get X.
- By the end, Character A might even have changed their initial believes and what they consider acceptable, due to cognitive dissonance.

I totally agree that corruption, like morality, is in the eye of the beholder. However, I guess I do have a bit of a different view of the concept. To me, corruption involves doing or continuing to do something you believe to be wrong because moral concerns no longer have the power to sway you from your course. It's hard for me to think of a MC who has fallen in love with Jen as corrupted because in his heart of hearts he probably doesn't believe he's actually done anything wrong. For a true romantic, love is ultimately more important than anything else and it is the epitome of what is good and noble in the world. Intellectually, the MC can recognize that the code of ethics in psychology is there for a reason and does protect patients in some/many/most circumstances, but at the end of the day he doesn't want to (or can't) believe that Jen needs to be protected from him or that his love for her will actually end up damaging her. The corner of his mind that worries about that sort of thing gets overruled by his emotions. He probably thinks they'll both be worse off if they ignore their feelings and miss their chance to be happy together.

I think having Jen be the one to declare her feelings first was a good move and makes her story resonate more powerfully than it would otherwise. Even a true romantic MC could believe his feelings are one-sided and that Jen wouldn't want him so he shouldn't pursue the relationship under the circumstances. It would be interesting to know if Mel also made the first move in their relationship.

In media, female corruption typically involves her giving her body and beauty (aka sex) because, in our culture, being a slut = bad and being "pure"/virgin = good. Sex with a young, beautiful, "pure" woman is something of high value.

Male corruption, on the other hand, almost never involves man having sex against their best judgment because, in our culture, sleeping with many women = something to be proud of. And sex with a man is something easy to get, so it's not a high reward by itself. Instead, it usually involves giving up moral values to get more money/power.

On that note, I think there's a lot of misogyny baked into how AVNs tend to depict corruption. They portray men as being able to have as much sex as they want without their inner selves really changing, but women who sleep with whoever they want to become gibbering sex maniacs over time and start to only care about their next, suspiciously easy to achieve orgasm. At least GGGB doesn't succumb to that trope as far as I can remember.

Or is it because it has to be a novel event, something the MC never considered before? (MC already had slept with Mel, but had never cheated with a friend's partner. This seems like a rather narrow definition of corruption: can't someone be corrupted, try to do better, but ended up corrupted again?

You're not wrong, but I think it's always easier to make the same mistake a second time. The unknown and that first compromise of our morality are scary -- to do it again once you know the score is a return to familiar territory. Thinking about Mel in particular, I wonder if it's a given that the MC regrets the affair. Early on in the game, she's still very much on his mind...he's stalking her social media and still dreaming of her. Does he recognize that he did something truly and unequivocally wrong or is he mostly just sorry that things ended the way they did?

 

[EndlessNights]

I think it's super cool that you effectively corrupted the players themselves. It takes good storytelling to affect the emotions of your readers. Well done!

I'd actually be very curious to hear your take on Nothing Is Forever if you ever get a chance to play it. I think there's a good chance you might appreciate the depth of MrSilverLust's characters and the grounded realism of the narrative among other things. This isn't something that just occurred to me, either...I've randomly had the thought, "I bet Tlaero would really like this!" at different moments while playing the game.

Corporate Culture's latest update was great. I shared some thoughts here.

I'm really looking forward to reading it after I play the update for myself!