- Dec 5, 2020
- 2,369
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Well, as long as it remains optional, as stated in the planned tags, I can tolerate it, but yeah, I don't see much point in it, at least not with the current plot.
Recommending Story-first games
- Thread starter jufot
- Start date
even though i wish they would remove it as it doesn't make sense that's their vision and respect hope they still remove it tho lmao
Yeah Zero End is really fun to play blind. I played it blind once and then speedrun it to check other gods. I think it's pretty new and not that complicated yet. I think in 18 months or so it's probably a good game to revisit and play from the beginning.
Nothing is Forever.... Never say never....
I finally finished it, yay... Had to start again from the very beginning because I apparently didn't even read chapter 5 and therefore my save was broken... I'm gonna narrow it down to just the femdom portion of it + the Lea path and some overall thoughts because there's otherwise too much to talk about.
Well, back when I played it the first time I went with Emma, Deb and Kim, but from what I remember it felt a bit too convoluted considering you're playing a, somewhat, submissive MC. This time I cut Emma out of the equation, for no real reason, followed by a Lea solo run.
Full spoilers and a lot of text ahead....
-The story
Tiaero, I think, pointed out that the story isn't fun to play. Well, first of all, that's always highly subjective of course, but I have to partially agree with her in this case. At least when you look at it from an outside perspective. It didn't concern me personally all that much because my favourite path, by far, is the Kim one and that route is pretty fucked up/dark. So when you play that specific path and enjoy it, you kinda lose sight a little about the rest of it . But, yeah, it's a tiny bit too depressive imo and it also never really changes gears in that regard. The beginning is fine, the MC lost his job as a psychiatrist and wants to start over while still being haunted by his past mistakes. Even the Jen conflict I think is fine, it's a nice little moral dilemma for the player to figure out. But I think the game could benefit from some change after that because it keeps on going about this self loathing, depressed MC who can't leave things behind. Later on in the story the MC wants to make a clean slate and quits his current job as a sexologist which, in my mind, should've really been the definitive end for all of this. But no, not here. The MC becomes even more depressed and his "inner voices" who talk to him all the time aren't very helpful either. They always pester him about the consequences of his actions. They aren't wrong of course, quite the opposite actually, but at some point it might be worth considering to leave things be and letting the MC find some peace of mind
. Like he's sitting there infront of his laptop and gets concerned about if he gets accepted for his next job while his inner voices keep on bugging him about what a fucking failure he is.
I mean, I get it, depression is a bitch. I know that too well due to my line of work. But I don't know, a small change in the way the story's being told wouldn't have hurt for the average audience. By that I don't mean to turn it into a happy go lucky storyline in which everything starts to become all flowery and awesome, but at least letting him come down from this exhausting, neverending cycle of self doubt and borderline self hatred and maybe transitioning into something slightly more relaxed and balanced wouldn't be the worst thing for the overal feel of the story going forward.
I do understand what the developer tries to do here. He wants to portray a somewhat realistic story about actions and consequences when it comes to the MC, but.... I don't know.... And it also doesn't stop with the MC. Take Deb for example. Why does she have to go see a psychiatrist?. Yes, she was engaged with Carl. Yes, break ups suck and all that. Yes, people cope with such topics in different ways. But why such a heavy storyline for her, why not simply letting her take her time and then come back and she simply moves on?. We already have a depressed MC running around. I mean, what's next?. Do we get confirmation that Olivia has chorea huntington syndrome?. Does Pete hurt himself when he finds out about the MC and Kim?. Look, just because the MC was a psychiatrist doesn't mean that "everything" needs to have a psychological angle to it imo..
-The MC
Some people say that he's somewhat of a blank slate. Which I think, again, depends heaviliy on the route you're playing. In the first 3 chapters it felt to me a little like he's been send by someone on a "secret mission" to write an essay about sexual kinks. But looking at it from a pure femdom perspective it's kinda interesting actually because i've also read a couple of complaints about how the MC talks and acts/behaves during those scenes. Well, the answer to why he comes across a certain way is getting explained in chapter 1 or 2 (can't remember). There's a scene in which he looks up femdom on his laptop. To be more specific, he searches for topics like "How to be the perfect submissive for your mistress" or "How to please your mistress" and things like that. So what does that mean?. It means that he has absolutely no clue about the subject matter whatsoever, a complete greenhorn. So it does make sense that he personifies a more of a nerdy, clueless, slightly annoying type of slave/sub/dude. But i'll get back to that when I talk about Deb.
Well, there's also the fact that he's an ex psychiatrist of course, which is basically his main character trait outside of the bedroom for the majority of the game. He constantly talks about psychological topics and angles with all the characters around him. The only time he catches a break is sometimes when he's with his buddies (Jamie/Pete/Carl). But even with them he can't refrain from doing so entirely.. It's not really a deal breaker for me, like it can be interesting to read and it's also well written, but.. Let me put it this way, due to my work i've met around 15?, maybe more, psychiatrists. With most of them I only had work related conversations, but with 2 i've had/have conversations outside the clinic. Not really friends, but also not just acquaintances.. And what I do notice when talking with "those people" is that psychology is rarely part of those conversations. Well, I mean, sure, it could be simply because i'm not knowledgeable enough for these kind of topics, but I don't think that's the case here. I think that their jobs are pretty exhausting (on average) and "those people" simply don't want to have much to do with psychological topics in their free time. Or at least to a way lesser extent... Gotta recharge your batteries in order to be able to talk depression and such for 8 hours straight again the next day .
I mean, I know why he's doing it and I probably make it sound way more negative than it actually is, but it can be a little exhausting at times. And to elaborate on that on last time. I think what bothers me personally a little is that a lot of that psychological talk could be narrowed down to a simple "everything is possible". If you know what I mean.
-Deb
I just wanna say this upfront. There's nothing wrong with this route in itself. We have our, somwhat, nerdy/eager/green MC and then there's Deb and both of them simply find their own way to play the femdom game. One question that could be asked here though would be "Is the MC submissive?". I don't think that there's a clear answer to that, but i'm leaning towards saying no. He likes to play a sub, but he isn't one which can lead to some awkwardness here and there. Like I mentioned earlier, he looks up femdom on his laptop and when he's with Deb, he REALLY likes to be a nerdy sub. Like constantly telling Deb what she likes to hear.
Deb- "You really like that, don't you?"
MC - "Yes Deb, I wanna serve you the best I can"
MC - "I'm not worthy and I need to be dominated by a strong woman like you"
MC - "My cock belongs to you Deb, only you"
MC - "I'm at your service for as long as you need me"
MC - "Please, take away all of my orgasms"
Deb- "God that's so hot, keep talking"
MC - "I want you to lock up my cock and I want you to keep the key"
MC - "My cock needs to be controlled by someone else"
Deb- "Don't stop, i'm almost there"
MC - "I don't need to have an orgasm as long as you don't want me to have one"
MC - "I'm completely at your mercy Deb"
Deb- "Omg, i'm cumming..."
That's not the original dialogue, but do you notice something?. The thing here is, outside of the fact that the MC's being annoying because he's a nerd, the dialogue ratio between Deb and the MC. Usually it's the mistress who does the talking, here it sometimes feels like reversed roles. It makes for a weird experience for the "femdom fans" audience imo. And I also think that's why a couple of people are dissatisfied with the MC on that route. I'm not the biggest fan of it either tbh. But the developer is in the right with what we get to see here. So, what can you do...
(Nerdy talk inc) Well, there's one thing he isn't right with though!!!. Which is this
This render should not exist in my mind=). From a femdom perspective I hopefully don't have to have to explain this. And it's not only the outcome, it's also the leadup.
. So "thigh fucking" in a femdom scenario is a submissive act and it's also executed with that in mind. The "usual" position for this would be her standing and him kneeling behind her and then doing his thing. Another position would be her sitting on the bed and him kneeling next to her and doing his thing from the side. Why is it done like this besides the fact that it's not real sex?. One of the reasons is that none of his "filth" goes anywhere near her body when he cums. If it somehow does happen, like in the first screenshot, then, in my mind, the MC has to take one for the team here and we get to see a cum eating scene... Again, i'm not totally in the right here because they do their thing and they're doing it also for the first time. They don't need to have established every little thing. But, in a general femdom sense it's done differently.
There's more, like the chastity play, but all of this can be explained with how early everything takes place in their femdom relationship.... So it's of no use to potentially criticize any of this even though I'd like to, not gonna lie. "Sadly" the developer put too much thought into everything and I would just end up hanging myself...
So, an overall solid route, but, imo, the MC's in the way of things sometimes because of how he acts/reacts. Like, "Yay chastity, I can't wait. Lock my cock away for all eternity.. Who needs that thing anyway......" Shut it!. The first thing i'd do if i'd be his mistress would be to not give him permission to speak. Or put a ball gag on him. But then again, Deb likes the way he talks, so.... What do I know.. seemingly nothing..
-Kim ( sub/humiliation/etc path)
If that ain't love at first sight then I don't know what is=). To get it out of the way, this is not a normal route. It also can't be looked at as simply being another femdom route. It's its own thing because they both don't want the same things from each other like it would be the case in any other kinky relationship scenario. The only thing that this has in common with femdom, in my mind, are the fetishes themselfs. All of that makes for a pretty interesting, fucked up and, most definitely, unique storyline imo.
Well, it's certainly not for everyone I imagine. Like, if you're someone who stands for integrity or has a high moral compass then you'll despise this storyline like nothing else, no doubt. And you're not wrong to think that way of course. Let's face it, Kim's an evil cunt, no need to phrase it in any other way. So I can certainly emphasize with someone who tells her off... Or, to be edgy by quoting Goethe, "That which disturbs your soul, you must not suffer" . But i'm on the other side of the spectrum in this case. I thoroughly enjoy this route for what it is and i'm very thankful that the developer does refrain from half assing this storyline. It's pretty complex, slightly uncomfortable and hot to read along in my mind. Easily my favourite out of the ones i've played... But let's get a little more in depth with this stuff.
So in my mind there are, from a story perspective, 3 "canon" routes in this game. Emma, Jen and...well, Kim(at least this path)... Emma could be seen as the main LI because of how well the MC and her play off each other. Jen, who's like the central point of the story for a couple of reasons. And then there's Kim who, in my mind, represents the exact counterpart to Emma. With Emma you'll get a positive ending for the MC and with Kim it should be the opposite, to put it lightly.... Kim her route showcases what'll happen when things go bad. What happens when the MC isn't able to find closure and therefore starts making very questionable decisions for himself. It's not about exploring the humiliation/degradation/whatever kink on that route. For the audience?, sure, but not for the MC.
Well, I talked about it on the Deb route that the MC is kinda green when it comes to all the kinks in the game. He's also pretty naive and a little too enthusiastic at times. Combine that with him being depressed and self loathing/hating and whatnot... I mean, all of that isn't really a problem on the oher routes. Like on the Deb route, Deb will of course act responsible at all times. They gonna explore their kinks together and have fun with it... Same can be said for all the other routes I imagine.
With Kim on the other hand, well, that's a whole nother story. On the Kim route he's the same MC as on the Deb one. But on the Kim route that will/should become a pretty big problem for him because I don't think he fully understands what he's signing up for here. Kim is "out for blood". She likes to hurt people emotionally. She said so herself many times and we have no reason to think otherwise.
So what happens to someone who's depressed, naive, emotionally vulnerable and all that?. Right, he runs a high risk of getting damaged. There's a difference between someone who's really into humiliation/degradation/etc. You know, someone who starts to thrive instead of getting angry or starting to cry when getting treated like shit because, deep down inside, he's at peace with who he is and what he likes. The MC is not that kind of a person in my mind. He just doesn't know what he's doing. poor thing.. Maybe that fact makes it even more appealing to read?. I'm not exactly sure to be honest.. I mean, "schadenfreude" gets mentioned at some point , but...
Anyhow, there's a scene in chapter 5 (the shoe licking one) in which he tells her that he likes to be humiliated. MC style of course, with him telling her what a piece of shit he is and that she can do whatever she wants with him and that he deserves to be treated like that...
Well, he also tells her why he wants to be treated that way and that basically sealed the deal in my opinion, it's over=). Kim, at that pont, has so much ammunition already, her pockets simply aren't big enough to carry it all around .
Next up was the scene in chapter 6 in which Kim and the MC have sex. Spoiler alert, Kim forgot to bring some extra baggage because of all the new ammunition she's getting during that scene. She might as well get it over with by opening up her own ammunition store at this point... But what's more interesting here is that we get to see Kim truly starting to mess with the MCs head.
Up until this point she still held back a little, like testing the waters. Making sure that he's the right person for what's coming...
. And the MC?. Well, it's kinda tragic at this point. The developer came up with some kinda "martyr" storyline as a reason in order to break up Kim and Pete. The MC wants to save Pete from harm and offers himself in his place. It's whatever I guess. At this point everything what the MC says and does comes across as just being pathetic. Just think about it. The MC risks his own sanity just to save Pete from some potential break up pain, yeah.... It doesn't matter, Kim already won anyways in every way possible. His dialogue also becomes less and less because there's not much left for him to say anymore. He's hers now. Body and mind...., Or will be soon at least.
On more thing about that scene. The MC tells Kim the story about how he met his ex girlfriend and how he fell for her.. The way he describes it makes him sound like some pathetic asshole which, in my mind, makes the Jen storyline even more unappealing to play. Kim of course just laughs at him and spits in his face and manipulates him even further.. Atta girl
Later on I did decide to do the cuckold route with the MC because it makes perfectly sense in my mind. I have a suspicion that we'll get to see like a proper cuckold scenario later down the line. As in, the MC having to eat up the creampie from another guy while being humiliated by Kim in the process.....
So yeah, Kim will certainly leave a mark on him, or two. She'll fry his brain and fuck with his mind until there's nothing left. She'll mold him into whatever she wants him to be. You wanna be treated like shit?. You wanna feel inferior in every way possible while being laughed at and ridiculed?. Well, Kim to the rescue, she'll eagerly take the job=). I mean, sure, I don't think the developer will go all out on this (which he easily could). Just thinking about all the potential kinks on that route, there's no limit about what she could do,..... Every fucked up little thing you can think about would be fair game here...
Let's talk about Kim herself real quick. So when you have a character like hers in a game the question about the why quickly arises. Why does she act the way she does?. Her characterization is a bit wobbly at first. She talks about everyone being a hypocrite and that she, in her mind, addresses the things like they really are. Later on in chapter 5 (I think) she talks a little about how she was as a child and that she basically always been leaning towards being mean... Well, I don't really think that's true. And I also don't think that it's something simple like "I got cheated in the past and now i'm on a personal vendetta against everybody". No, this has to be something else. I have no idea what, but it also doesn't really matter I guess.. When she was with Pete it was more about acting behind his back, a.k.a cheating. I don't think she really humiliates him when they're together. She just plays couple with him and gets off on the thought of potentially hurting him. This all changes now after the break up when she and the MC enter their "relationship". The MC offered himself to her to do whatever she wants to... A dangerous proposal =).
Anyhow, so overall a pretty complex, fascinating, hot and also tragic storyline about a man on a downward spiral into potential madness. You don't get to see this kind of stuff very often in an AVN. You have to keep in mind, Kim is not the MC.. Anyways, Kim is awesome in the most devious way possible, and I can't wait for that scene when the MC confesses to everyone that he's with Kim now. =) At the very least we're going to see a lot of head shaking from everyone.
-Lea
Not much to say here. I do like her, but the MC comes across a little too pushy and slightly manipulative in the beginning for my tastes. It does get better later on though and the story overall isn't badly executed either. Well, that's already it I guess. I mean, it's mostly about the exhibition kink and they both move towards a happy ending and.... what more do you want?=). It was ok..
-Jen
It's kinda funny, on one hand i'm willing to, potentially, let multiple people get hurt on the Kim route, but I can't bring myself to play the Jen route. Everytime that hotel scene comes up there's just no way in my mind and it just feels so wrong and dumb. Not even from just a sexual point of view, but in general.... Which kinda sux because apparently there's a double sub route with Jen which, in itself, is pretty interesting because you can do so much "fun" stuff with that setup. I suppose Deb would be the "mistress" in that scenario which makes sense. Some people brought up Kim for this, but, as much as it pains me to admit it, that would not be the right choice here. Kim wouldn't be after "domming" Jen, no, she'd be after breaking her. I know that sounds pretty hot for "twisted" people like me and others, but... One storyline like this is enough in regards to the rest of the game in this case. Otherwise the game would slowly start to deteriorate into more of a "meanie" game... Would still be hot though
-Endings
This is where I don't wanna switch places with the developer. I only played 3 routes out of 20 or however many there are. And just looking at my Deb + Kim run... Deb asked the MC about if he'd ever leave her and the MC replied with "No, never"... Cool, no pressure because the MC is going to announce soon that he's with Kim now. I don't wanna get too much into this here, but the complexity of all of this makes my brain hurt....
Ok, to end this endless wall of text, I wanted to bring up Kim one last time regarding potential endings. So what do you do with her?. Of corse there's always the "dark ending" as an option. And it would make sense and i'm all for it, but what else is there?. Is there a way to inject maybe a faint glimpse of humanity into her?. Well, the only thing I can think of, without damaging her character, would be her realizing near the end that the MC isn't fit for what she's putting him through. Therefore she simply dumps him and doing him a solid without him even knowing it. Because at that point he should be completly infatuated with her with his brain being all mushy.... You can also do like a fucked up realtionship angle where they both find a way to be happy with what they're doing. Maybe Kim comes to peace with herself when she has someone who's willing to do everything she says and doesn't resist?.. Although, that sounds extremely complicated to write......, Well, maybe not, who knows...
Anyhow, i'm done...Play the game, it's pretty good...... 10/10 and all that...
Oh, and be careful when participating in a sword fight=)
I finally finished it, yay... Had to start again from the very beginning because I apparently didn't even read chapter 5 and therefore my save was broken... I'm gonna narrow it down to just the femdom portion of it + the Lea path and some overall thoughts because there's otherwise too much to talk about.
Well, back when I played it the first time I went with Emma, Deb and Kim, but from what I remember it felt a bit too convoluted considering you're playing a, somewhat, submissive MC. This time I cut Emma out of the equation, for no real reason, followed by a Lea solo run.
Full spoilers and a lot of text ahead....
-The story
Tiaero, I think, pointed out that the story isn't fun to play. Well, first of all, that's always highly subjective of course, but I have to partially agree with her in this case. At least when you look at it from an outside perspective. It didn't concern me personally all that much because my favourite path, by far, is the Kim one and that route is pretty fucked up/dark. So when you play that specific path and enjoy it, you kinda lose sight a little about the rest of it . But, yeah, it's a tiny bit too depressive imo and it also never really changes gears in that regard. The beginning is fine, the MC lost his job as a psychiatrist and wants to start over while still being haunted by his past mistakes. Even the Jen conflict I think is fine, it's a nice little moral dilemma for the player to figure out. But I think the game could benefit from some change after that because it keeps on going about this self loathing, depressed MC who can't leave things behind. Later on in the story the MC wants to make a clean slate and quits his current job as a sexologist which, in my mind, should've really been the definitive end for all of this. But no, not here. The MC becomes even more depressed and his "inner voices" who talk to him all the time aren't very helpful either. They always pester him about the consequences of his actions. They aren't wrong of course, quite the opposite actually, but at some point it might be worth considering to leave things be and letting the MC find some peace of mind
. Like he's sitting there infront of his laptop and gets concerned about if he gets accepted for his next job while his inner voices keep on bugging him about what a fucking failure he is.I mean, I get it, depression is a bitch. I know that too well due to my line of work. But I don't know, a small change in the way the story's being told wouldn't have hurt for the average audience. By that I don't mean to turn it into a happy go lucky storyline in which everything starts to become all flowery and awesome, but at least letting him come down from this exhausting, neverending cycle of self doubt and borderline self hatred and maybe transitioning into something slightly more relaxed and balanced wouldn't be the worst thing for the overal feel of the story going forward.
I do understand what the developer tries to do here. He wants to portray a somewhat realistic story about actions and consequences when it comes to the MC, but.... I don't know.... And it also doesn't stop with the MC. Take Deb for example. Why does she have to go see a psychiatrist?. Yes, she was engaged with Carl. Yes, break ups suck and all that. Yes, people cope with such topics in different ways. But why such a heavy storyline for her, why not simply letting her take her time and then come back and she simply moves on?. We already have a depressed MC running around. I mean, what's next?. Do we get confirmation that Olivia has chorea huntington syndrome?. Does Pete hurt himself when he finds out about the MC and Kim?. Look, just because the MC was a psychiatrist doesn't mean that "everything" needs to have a psychological angle to it imo..
-The MC
Some people say that he's somewhat of a blank slate. Which I think, again, depends heaviliy on the route you're playing. In the first 3 chapters it felt to me a little like he's been send by someone on a "secret mission" to write an essay about sexual kinks
. But looking at it from a pure femdom perspective it's kinda interesting actually because i've also read a couple of complaints about how the MC talks and acts/behaves during those scenes. Well, the answer to why he comes across a certain way is getting explained in chapter 1 or 2 (can't remember). There's a scene in which he looks up femdom on his laptop. To be more specific, he searches for topics like "How to be the perfect submissive for your mistress" or "How to please your mistress" and things like that. So what does that mean?. It means that he has absolutely no clue about the subject matter whatsoever, a complete greenhorn. So it does make sense that he personifies a more of a nerdy, clueless, slightly annoying type of slave/sub/dude. But i'll get back to that when I talk about Deb.Well, there's also the fact that he's an ex psychiatrist of course, which is basically his main character trait outside of the bedroom for the majority of the game. He constantly talks about psychological topics and angles with all the characters around him. The only time he catches a break is sometimes when he's with his buddies (Jamie/Pete/Carl). But even with them he can't refrain from doing so entirely.. It's not really a deal breaker for me, like it can be interesting to read and it's also well written, but.. Let me put it this way, due to my work i've met around 15?, maybe more, psychiatrists. With most of them I only had work related conversations, but with 2 i've had/have conversations outside the clinic. Not really friends, but also not just acquaintances.. And what I do notice when talking with "those people" is that psychology is rarely part of those conversations. Well, I mean, sure, it could be simply because i'm not knowledgeable enough for these kind of topics
, but I don't think that's the case here. I think that their jobs are pretty exhausting (on average) and "those people" simply don't want to have much to do with psychological topics in their free time. Or at least to a way lesser extent... Gotta recharge your batteries in order to be able to talk depression and such for 8 hours straight again the next day .I mean, I know why he's doing it and I probably make it sound way more negative than it actually is, but it can be a little exhausting at times. And to elaborate on that on last time. I think what bothers me personally a little is that a lot of that psychological talk could be narrowed down to a simple "everything is possible". If you know what I mean.
-Deb
I just wanna say this upfront. There's nothing wrong with this route in itself. We have our, somwhat, nerdy/eager/green MC and then there's Deb and both of them simply find their own way to play the femdom game. One question that could be asked here though would be "Is the MC submissive?". I don't think that there's a clear answer to that, but i'm leaning towards saying no. He likes to play a sub, but he isn't one which can lead to some awkwardness here and there. Like I mentioned earlier, he looks up femdom on his laptop and when he's with Deb, he REALLY likes to be a nerdy sub. Like constantly telling Deb what she likes to hear.
Deb- "You really like that, don't you?"
MC - "Yes Deb, I wanna serve you the best I can"
MC - "I'm not worthy and I need to be dominated by a strong woman like you"
MC - "My cock belongs to you Deb, only you"
MC - "I'm at your service for as long as you need me"
MC - "Please, take away all of my orgasms"
Deb- "God that's so hot, keep talking"
MC - "I want you to lock up my cock and I want you to keep the key"
MC - "My cock needs to be controlled by someone else"
Deb- "Don't stop, i'm almost there"
MC - "I don't need to have an orgasm as long as you don't want me to have one"
MC - "I'm completely at your mercy Deb"
Deb- "Omg, i'm cumming..."
That's not the original dialogue, but do you notice something?. The thing here is, outside of the fact that the MC's being annoying because he's a nerd, the dialogue ratio between Deb and the MC. Usually it's the mistress who does the talking, here it sometimes feels like reversed roles. It makes for a weird experience for the "femdom fans" audience imo. And I also think that's why a couple of people are dissatisfied with the MC on that route. I'm not the biggest fan of it either tbh. But the developer is in the right with what we get to see here. So, what can you do...
(Nerdy talk inc) Well, there's one thing he isn't right with though!!!
. Which is this
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There's more, like the chastity play, but all of this can be explained with how early everything takes place in their femdom relationship.... So it's of no use to potentially criticize any of this even though I'd like to, not gonna lie
. "Sadly" the developer put too much thought into everything and I would just end up hanging myself...So, an overall solid route, but, imo, the MC's in the way of things sometimes because of how he acts/reacts. Like, "Yay chastity, I can't wait. Lock my cock away for all eternity.. Who needs that thing anyway......" Shut it!. The first thing i'd do if i'd be his mistress would be to not give him permission to speak. Or put a ball gag on him
. But then again, Deb likes the way he talks, so.... What do I know.. seemingly nothing..-Kim ( sub/humiliation/etc path)
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If that ain't love at first sight then I don't know what is=). To get it out of the way, this is not a normal route. It also can't be looked at as simply being another femdom route. It's its own thing because they both don't want the same things from each other like it would be the case in any other kinky relationship scenario. The only thing that this has in common with femdom, in my mind, are the fetishes themselfs. All of that makes for a pretty interesting, fucked up and, most definitely, unique storyline imo.
Well, it's certainly not for everyone I imagine. Like, if you're someone who stands for integrity or has a high moral compass then you'll despise this storyline like nothing else, no doubt. And you're not wrong to think that way of course. Let's face it, Kim's an evil cunt, no need to phrase it in any other way
. So I can certainly emphasize with someone who tells her off... Or, to be edgy by quoting Goethe, "That which disturbs your soul, you must not suffer" . But i'm on the other side of the spectrum in this case. I thoroughly enjoy this route for what it is and i'm very thankful that the developer does refrain from half assing this storyline. It's pretty complex, slightly uncomfortable and hot to read along in my mind. Easily my favourite out of the ones i've played... But let's get a little more in depth with this stuff.So in my mind there are, from a story perspective, 3 "canon" routes in this game. Emma, Jen and...well, Kim(at least this path)... Emma could be seen as the main LI because of how well the MC and her play off each other. Jen, who's like the central point of the story for a couple of reasons. And then there's Kim who, in my mind, represents the exact counterpart to Emma. With Emma you'll get a positive ending for the MC and with Kim it should be the opposite, to put it lightly.... Kim her route showcases what'll happen when things go bad. What happens when the MC isn't able to find closure and therefore starts making very questionable decisions for himself. It's not about exploring the humiliation/degradation/whatever kink on that route. For the audience?, sure, but not for the MC.
Well, I talked about it on the Deb route that the MC is kinda green when it comes to all the kinks in the game. He's also pretty naive and a little too enthusiastic at times. Combine that with him being depressed and self loathing/hating and whatnot... I mean, all of that isn't really a problem on the oher routes. Like on the Deb route, Deb will of course act responsible at all times. They gonna explore their kinks together and have fun with it... Same can be said for all the other routes I imagine.
With Kim on the other hand, well, that's a whole nother story. On the Kim route he's the same MC as on the Deb one. But on the Kim route that will/should become a pretty big problem for him because I don't think he fully understands what he's signing up for here. Kim is "out for blood". She likes to hurt people emotionally. She said so herself many times and we have no reason to think otherwise.
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, but...Anyhow, there's a scene in chapter 5 (the shoe licking one) in which he tells her that he likes to be humiliated. MC style of course, with him telling her what a piece of shit he is and that she can do whatever she wants with him and that he deserves to be treated like that...
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.Next up was the scene in chapter 6 in which Kim and the MC have sex. Spoiler alert, Kim forgot to bring some extra baggage because of all the new ammunition she's getting during that scene. She might as well get it over with by opening up her own ammunition store at this point... But what's more interesting here is that we get to see Kim truly starting to mess with the MCs head.
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On more thing about that scene. The MC tells Kim the story about how he met his ex girlfriend and how he fell for her.. The way he describes it makes him sound like some pathetic asshole which, in my mind, makes the Jen storyline even more unappealing to play. Kim of course just laughs at him and spits in his face and manipulates him even further.. Atta girl
Later on I did decide to do the cuckold route with the MC because it makes perfectly sense in my mind. I have a suspicion that we'll get to see like a proper cuckold scenario later down the line. As in, the MC having to eat up the creampie from another guy while being humiliated by Kim in the process.....
So yeah, Kim will certainly leave a mark on him, or two
. She'll fry his brain and fuck with his mind until there's nothing left. She'll mold him into whatever she wants him to be. You wanna be treated like shit?. You wanna feel inferior in every way possible while being laughed at and ridiculed?. Well, Kim to the rescue, she'll eagerly take the job=). I mean, sure, I don't think the developer will go all out on this (which he easily could). Just thinking about all the potential kinks on that route, there's no limit about what she could do,..... Every fucked up little thing you can think about would be fair game here...Let's talk about Kim herself real quick. So when you have a character like hers in a game the question about the why quickly arises. Why does she act the way she does?. Her characterization is a bit wobbly at first. She talks about everyone being a hypocrite and that she, in her mind, addresses the things like they really are. Later on in chapter 5 (I think) she talks a little about how she was as a child and that she basically always been leaning towards being mean... Well, I don't really think that's true. And I also don't think that it's something simple like "I got cheated in the past and now i'm on a personal vendetta against everybody". No, this has to be something else. I have no idea what, but it also doesn't really matter I guess.. When she was with Pete it was more about acting behind his back, a.k.a cheating. I don't think she really humiliates him when they're together. She just plays couple with him and gets off on the thought of potentially hurting him. This all changes now after the break up when she and the MC enter their "relationship". The MC offered himself to her to do whatever she wants to... A dangerous proposal =).
Anyhow, so overall a pretty complex, fascinating, hot and also tragic storyline about a man on a downward spiral into potential madness
. You don't get to see this kind of stuff very often in an AVN. You have to keep in mind, Kim is not the MC.. Anyways, Kim is awesome in the most devious way possible, and I can't wait for that scene when the MC confesses to everyone that he's with Kim now. =) At the very least we're going to see a lot of head shaking from everyone.-Lea
Not much to say here. I do like her, but the MC comes across a little too pushy and slightly manipulative in the beginning for my tastes. It does get better later on though and the story overall isn't badly executed either. Well, that's already it I guess. I mean, it's mostly about the exhibition kink and they both move towards a happy ending and.... what more do you want?=). It was ok..
-Jen
It's kinda funny, on one hand i'm willing to, potentially, let multiple people get hurt on the Kim route, but I can't bring myself to play the Jen route
. Everytime that hotel scene comes up there's just no way in my mind and it just feels so wrong and dumb. Not even from just a sexual point of view, but in general.... Which kinda sux because apparently there's a double sub route with Jen which, in itself, is pretty interesting because you can do so much "fun" stuff with that setup. I suppose Deb would be the "mistress" in that scenario which makes sense. Some people brought up Kim for this, but, as much as it pains me to admit it, that would not be the right choice here. Kim wouldn't be after "domming" Jen, no, she'd be after breaking her. I know that sounds pretty hot for "twisted" people like me and others, but... One storyline like this is enough in regards to the rest of the game in this case. Otherwise the game would slowly start to deteriorate into more of a "meanie" game... Would still be hot though -Endings
This is where I don't wanna switch places with the developer. I only played 3 routes out of 20 or however many there are. And just looking at my Deb + Kim run... Deb asked the MC about if he'd ever leave her and the MC replied with "No, never"... Cool, no pressure because the MC is going to announce soon that he's with Kim now
. I don't wanna get too much into this here, but the complexity of all of this makes my brain hurt....Ok, to end this endless wall of text, I wanted to bring up Kim one last time regarding potential endings. So what do you do with her?. Of corse there's always the "dark ending" as an option. And it would make sense and i'm all for it, but what else is there?. Is there a way to inject maybe a faint glimpse of humanity into her?. Well, the only thing I can think of, without damaging her character, would be her realizing near the end that the MC isn't fit for what she's putting him through. Therefore she simply dumps him and doing him a solid without him even knowing it. Because at that point he should be completly infatuated with her with his brain being all mushy...
. You can also do like a fucked up realtionship angle where they both find a way to be happy with what they're doing. Maybe Kim comes to peace with herself when she has someone who's willing to do everything she says and doesn't resist?.. Although, that sounds extremely complicated to write......, Well, maybe not, who knows...Anyhow, i'm done...Play the game, it's pretty good...... 10/10 and all that...
Oh, and be careful when participating in a sword fight=)
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Alright I'm sold! I'll check out dog days of summer after Sstorm
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I like the rest of your post, but just FYI, Kim has 3 or maybe 4 different routes and only one has MC submitting to her.
You're right, the way I wrote it makes it sound like there's only this cuck/sub/humiliation path. Honestly, I didn't know that there are more than 2. I thought there's "my" route and maybe some pure cheating route or whatever... Anyhow, this game is hard to write about in general. I didn't intend to write so much about it when I started.. And it doesn't even cover a small fraction of it....
What's your favourite route, like out of all of them?. I'm curious
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I only know because I play with the script open. For the record, there are 6 Kim, 7 Jen, 2 Deb, 5 Lea, 5 Emma, and 4 Bri paths so far. These are not all distinct storylines, just the potential places you can end up with an LI depending on your choices.
For Kim, I'm playing the "macho" path where she and MC are very much on equal terms, enjoying being evil together.
That's a tough one. For now, it's mostly a three-way tie between Deb, Emma, and Kim. Deb could become my favourite if she just had some more character development beyond the femdom. Emma is great because her whole love/hate will-they/won't-they dynamic with MC is just pure fun.What's your favourite route, like out of all of them?. I'm curious
As for Kim... Well, that's a guilty pleasure. She's just delightfully evil
Most games don't have the guts to create detestable LIs, but it works wonderfully here.That sounds like a tricky thing to do in my mind because Deb represents the classic femdom route. These types of routes usually don't go far beyond the "she becomes his mistress" part. Which is what most people want to see. So what you're asking for seems pretty delicate to write just because of the whole femdom aspect of it. That would require some solid writing because you're running a "high" risk of hurting the storyline more than helping it. What's her second path btw?. Or is it just different kinks?.
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Discussions about NiF are funny. I see people talking about different paths and it's like "WTF? Are we even playing the same game?".
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I liked the prologue (other than the conspicuous Harem tag), but Chapter 1 was letdown. We pick up a year later but the time skip is used very poorly, especially for the apparent LIs.
With Julia, it's like we completely missed their relationship developing. We get a chance for the MC to ask her out and the dialog will imply they've been flirting a lot, but IMHO that does not come across well. The flirting was pretty mild in my eyes - but then again maybe that's because I have no idea what Julia's personality is. If you told me the date sequence was part of Chapter 2 but a bug caused it to play in Chapter 1, I'd absolutely believe you.
With Keyla, it feels like she's stuck in the middle of a rewrite. When she told the MC she knew Kim was planning to leave in the prologue, he practically shrugged it off. But a year later (assuming she stops his apartment), the MC bemoans how she broke his trust even if we pick the "let's forget about it" dialog option. Anger (rational or otherwise) at her would have made sense in the heat of the moment, but it's weird that his attitude towards Keyla seems to have hardened only after he was given time to contemplate. Feels like this contradicts the overall theme of the chapter that the MC is finally getting his life back on track.
Michelle's content is just weird, almost like I walked into the theater halfway through her scenes. The (formal) introduction works nicely, but later when she and the MC are discussing her outlook on maturity, I have absolutely no idea what to make of it. Then there's the way Sophie and Michelle highlight the MC's reaction to Zeke getting a phone call. It didn't seem remarkable to me, which is made all the more frustrating since this was literally the first indication I had that they even knew Zeke existed. Do they know us better than I do?
The side girls Cynthia and Kimberly are flat out rushed. Kimberly was namedropped in the prologue, but I doubt many remember her. Yet if you skip going to the gym at the start of the game, she shows up on the subway with no fanfare and the MC just rolls with it. Cynthia at least appeared on screen before, but the MC seems way closer to her in Chapter 1 than makes any sense. Even if we don't ask for a booty call with her (in almost as many words), the MC will specifically say he'd love to ask her out if he didn't have to work the next day. It's really hard to square that sort of casual relationship with the fact Cynthia is not mentioned at all when Zeke is analyzing the MC's romantic options near the end of the chapter.
And of course there's Kim's unannounced return in the cliffhanger, which bombed pretty badly for me. First, was there really anyone playing the game who didn't see where the mystery overseas transfer plot was going? Second, how are we supposed to buy that Kim had no reaction to any of this right down to when the MC entered the room with her? I don't care how much emotional turmoil she might be feeling, if she can't figure out how to communicate *something* to the MC before this point the girl is going to come across as flat out delusional. But third and most unforgivingly, her return is way too soon. We've barely had time to meet the other girls - much less form an emotional attachment to them - and Kim is already pushing herself back into the spotlight? That's a recipe for disaster in my book. I've long railed against the way Zoey was handled in BaDIK (hopelessly underdeveloped compared to the other girls because DPC was too concerned with maximizing the shock of her return). Kim's practically the inverse of Zoey, but the result is similarly problematic. (At least we didn't have to sit through an Interlude.)
There are still some good parts to the game. I liked Olivia's content; it was well paced and emotionally charged. Michelle, despite her path's poor structure, is a fun character I want to see more of her and Sophie. The MC's interactions with his mother and the sales executive worked nicely. The artwork is lovely, of course. And I still think the story has a lot of potential. I'm just concerned that the game won't realize that potential.
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The "classic femdom route" in AVNs is thoroughly unattractive to me despite my interest in the kink, which is why I like Deb. She is not a two-dimensional porn trope. She is a person first, with a life and problems like any other. I want to see more of that, and I don't think that's incompatible with her sex life.
Like I said, these are not paths in the traditional sense (although the game calls them that) - just potential places you can end up with LIs. Deb's second "path" is simply rejecting her.
Here's the path list as of 0.6:
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I agree, you're, on average, just getting the "fast food" version of femdom which, to me, isn't all that interesting. It often times basically comes down to "fetish hopping" from scene to scene for the audience with some common mistress lines thrown in in between... But then again, wrtiting a mistress isn't an easy thing to do in my mind. At least not when you have some ambition in that regard.
About the routes, the second last Jen path sounds interesting and also unusual. It's basically a pure roleplaying opportunity for the player which is always welcomed in my mind.
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That's the path where you both realize you're subs and say "oh well, let's stay friends then"
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Thank you. Yes I have already played chasing sunset. Thanks for the recommendation.
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Thoughts on Camp Klondike's latest update? I think swimsoot is extremely talented in the way he sets up scenes. So much attention to sound, movement, and expressions, all delivered with a deceptively simple art style. He also has the best, most erotic sex writing on F95 bar none.
I've written a lot about that before, but this update has an even hotter scene where MC has sex with Merit while she imagines, loudly, him having sex with Stefi. Honestly, it's a work of art
The non-steamy bits are also worth mentioning. This update has Valentina teaching MC a lesson about what it means to be a woman who has had sexual pictures taken. Because men are men, such pictures have far-reaching implications beyond sexual liberation, and Valentina really drove the point home by sharing MC's mom's history of having anal sex with numerous boys at Klondike! It's harsh, but the effect is immediate as MC spirals and, with the best of intentions and to everyone's surprise, ends up rejecting a threesome with two very eager girls. The damage is done, but Shuyler talks to him, offering a new perspective. I'm curious to see how he'll reconcile his inner conflict.
Overall, a solid update to one of my favourite AVNs
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Played a couple anime-style VNs:
Tentative recommendation of New Horizon. Interesting start to story and world building. The setting is a world with people who have superpowers (not publically known though). Fairly multi-faceted characters. Good story-telling. Humor can be a bit hit and miss but I at least think the dev knows when it is suitable with jokes and when it is not. Note that it is a harem game that so far only have a few cosmetic choices.
I also played through My time with you but I can only say it is mildly interesting. The setting is that MC's future wife travels back in time and tries to make MC make a harem because the alternative is apparently very bad. It has a good bit of mystery but is mostly focused on the LIs and their problems. This is a kind of game that I find good while playing, but afterward when I try to find anything that is actually good about it I can't. I think it would have been much more interesting if it wasn't the first retry to get a good future, so that they already had tried a harem path before. Meaning they would have to figure out what path could actually work.
Tentative recommendation of New Horizon. Interesting start to story and world building. The setting is a world with people who have superpowers (not publically known though). Fairly multi-faceted characters. Good story-telling. Humor can be a bit hit and miss but I at least think the dev knows when it is suitable with jokes and when it is not. Note that it is a harem game that so far only have a few cosmetic choices.
I also played through My time with you but I can only say it is mildly interesting. The setting is that MC's future wife travels back in time and tries to make MC make a harem because the alternative is apparently very bad. It has a good bit of mystery but is mostly focused on the LIs and their problems. This is a kind of game that I find good while playing, but afterward when I try to find anything that is actually good about it I can't. I think it would have been much more interesting if it wasn't the first retry to get a good future, so that they already had tried a harem path before. Meaning they would have to figure out what path could actually work.
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i have three more recommendations for you dunno if u tried them
lycoris radiata
path to dominion
master rune
really unique games
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Thanks for the tips. I'll check them out (although my "games to try" list is already too long ...)
hello y'all, i come with another question today.
What games would you recommend that you think is "stat-first games" / "gaming"-element first games that also still have decent story?
*Since this is still a story-first games thread.
Esp Renpy but I guess at this point, if renpy isn't available, I might venture to Unity too.
So I'm currently playing the beginning part of The Bite Revenant. And that game reminds me a lot of Our Red String. And also Nothing is Forever, and also Zero End, that I recently also played.
Those 4 games prioritizes the "Game" part of Novel Game above the "Novel" part in my opinion. And I'd like to ask if you all know other games like that. I'm in the mood of playing something like that.
While almost all renpy games have choices, the choices are usually "which characters path do you want to read", like Bare Witness would be a great example of "which path do you want to see".
Those 4 games have some "RPG" element to it and I think I enjoy "playing" it as much as I enjoy "reading", for example, Deluca Family.
I don't put Defending Lydia Collier on the above 4 example because while Lydia Collier is a game, there is actual answers to the investigation part to it.
Snowstorm could also be put on the 4 example above actually, but I didn't because Snowstorm at it's current version is more of min-maxing stat than actual players playing a game.
While Snowstorm is still far better than Sandstorm with it's "gameplay", it's still a one-road min-maxing game. You either pass the stat-check or you don't, and miss scenes.
I mean sure, we can reduce all games to min-maxing but, Nothing is Forever for example, gives leeway to what kind of character you'd like the MC to be, and the game responds to that.
Anyway, I'm running out of great story-first renpy games to play, hence the question.
Edit: Oh I almost forgot, BaDIK is also definitely on the list
What games would you recommend that you think is "stat-first games" / "gaming"-element first games that also still have decent story?
*Since this is still a story-first games thread.
Esp Renpy but I guess at this point, if renpy isn't available, I might venture to Unity too.
So I'm currently playing the beginning part of The Bite Revenant. And that game reminds me a lot of Our Red String. And also Nothing is Forever, and also Zero End, that I recently also played.
Those 4 games prioritizes the "Game" part of Novel Game above the "Novel" part in my opinion. And I'd like to ask if you all know other games like that. I'm in the mood of playing something like that.
While almost all renpy games have choices, the choices are usually "which characters path do you want to read", like Bare Witness would be a great example of "which path do you want to see".
Those 4 games have some "RPG" element to it and I think I enjoy "playing" it as much as I enjoy "reading", for example, Deluca Family.
I don't put Defending Lydia Collier on the above 4 example because while Lydia Collier is a game, there is actual answers to the investigation part to it.
Snowstorm could also be put on the 4 example above actually, but I didn't because Snowstorm at it's current version is more of min-maxing stat than actual players playing a game.
While Snowstorm is still far better than Sandstorm with it's "gameplay", it's still a one-road min-maxing game. You either pass the stat-check or you don't, and miss scenes.
I mean sure, we can reduce all games to min-maxing but, Nothing is Forever for example, gives leeway to what kind of character you'd like the MC to be, and the game responds to that.
Anyway, I'm running out of great story-first renpy games to play, hence the question.
Edit: Oh I almost forgot, BaDIK is also definitely on the list