Recommending Story-first games

[Raife]

That would be great, but Jake is nowhere near being a good person yet, so why is Allison all but ready to jump back in? Her righteous fury from the first episode is nearly gone, and with that dinner scene, she's been effectively reduced to fluttering her eyelashes at him like a school girl.

Now that's pretty simple: Allison actually loves the MC, which he in no way deserves. Her righteous fury was a cover for the fact that she wants him desperately to be better than he is. You must have known people who did not deserve their partners... this certainly seems to be the case with the MC. Allison is the tragic heroine... not the MC.

And here we do disagree. That scene was done well... she resists Mr. Manwhore in the end, and doesn't allow herself to believe that he has changed. That was the right call. He is, as you say, nowhere near a decent person yet.

It may be that the dev doesn't understand the gold thread he has to pull on. But I'm curious. We'll see.

 

[Hildegardt]

Unfortunately, I'm stuck playing as Jake, who doesn't deserve her back

If this was Allison's VN, f95zone would throw a fit and call Jake a "ruined LI".

It's actually pretty weird how Allison seems to be obligated to go easy on him, just because he's the protagonist. I mean, look how he's treating his new girlfriend. Maybe the first step into reconciliation would be showing that he's capable of having a relationship in the first place. Makes me prefer the Veronica path, just because I like Allison more and don't want her to end up with him.
The Lilly tragedy is kind of a copout. Is it supposed to show that, despite being a cheater, he's dependable? But only in a literal life or death situation?! He's such a great guy for not clubbing the seals.

 

[Raife]

If this was Allison's VN, f95zone would throw a fit and call Jake a "ruined LI".

The Lilly tragedy is kind of a copout. Is it supposed to show that, despite being a cheater, he's dependable? But only in a literal life or death situation?! He's such a great guy for not clubbing the seals.

You're right on both counts. And the fact is... neither we, nor Allison, see him as remotely dependable. He's essentially one of the _Lost Boys_ at this point, refusing to grow up. I've no idea whether he can.

The re-emergence of Allison's stalker will be an interesting testing point. Does the MC just defend her like a possessive alpha dog cartoon... or is the dev smart enough to make him sacrifice a certain idea of himself in order to defend the LI he doesn't deserve? The first step towards becoming a better person is understanding, and accepting, that you've been a bad one.

Let's call this Raife's theorem (naming an idea after himself is just the sort of self-aggrandizing, douchebag thing that Jake would do): the best LIs are always those that do not need the MC, and whom the MC does not, in all justice, deserve.

 

[jufot]

You must have known people who did not deserve their partners... this certainly seems to be the case with the MC. Allison is a the tragic heroine... not the MC.

Right, which just makes me despise him more.

And here we do disagree. That scene was done well... she resists Mr. Manwhore in the end, and doesn't allow herself to believe that he has changed. That was the right call. He is, as you say, nowhere near a decent person yet.

Fair enough. I still don't think she should have invited him over, let alone cook for him, but at least she didn't have sex with him.

Makes me prefer the Veronica path, just because I like Allison more and don't want her to end up with him.

That's such a great point. Keeping him away from Allison as an act of public service

The Lilly tragedy is kind of a copout. Is it supposed to show that, despite being a cheater, he's dependable? But only in a literal life or death situation?! He's such a great guy for not clubbing the seals.

Right, Lilly is mostly there to give him one redeemable quality against everything else about him. It's not enough, obviously.

Let's call this Raife's theorem (naming an idea after himself is just the sort of self-aggrandizing, douchebag thing that Jake would do): the best LIs are always those that do not need the MC, and whom the MC does not, in all justice, deserve.

I'll sign that declaration

 

[Impenitent]

Race of Life will join the very biggest names in the adult gaming industry, including Being a Dik and Freshwomen. It will make its creators millionaires. From that perspective, it is an outstanding success and its developers can be completely unapologetic. They can give a great big middle finger to anyone who poo-poos it because they know that they made a game that will be wildly popular. And personally, I think it's a very well-made, enjoyable porn game.

BUT

It does not belong on any story first list. As you guys have already dissected it, I'll only comment on one thing that has been bothering me since the first release.

While I understand that for many players, the Lily drama was impactful, to me it felt hamfisted and cheap. But worse, it completely disassembles MC's redemption story: MC's daughter is grievously wounded by a speeding car. His response is to participate in illegal street racing, which in turn threatens more innocent people with the exact type of harm which his daughter suffered? The writer could have used a million different things as a catalyst to get the racing stuff into the story, none of which would have thrown the moral quandary right in the player's face. Perhaps the writer is planning for MC to hit someone else's child and realize that what he is doing is wrong? Surely the immorality of his conduct would have occurred to him far earlier that that.

I've seen many people saying how nice it is to have a mature MC for a change, and I feel like we must have played different games. Maybe players are so used to playing students and out-of-work programmers that they can't tell the difference between maturity and having a job?

 

[Raife]

I've seen many people saying how nice it is to have a mature MC for a change, and I feel like we must have played different games. Maybe players are so used to playing students and out-of-work programmers that they can't tell the difference between maturity and having a job?

Yes. The bar for MC 'maturity' is incredibly low. Rock bottom, really. I've ranted about this before, but some of it has to do with a very distorted notion of 'manhood,' which sees performative aggression as the ultimate expression of masculinity, rather than stoicism, self-control and responsibility.

When somebody _does_ write a genuinely mature male MC, as Tlaero has done recently, they get accused of 'hating men' (literally). It's bizarre.

Some of it is gaming culture, I'm afraid. But quite a lot of it is in the floating around in the wider cultural context. It's pernicious and corrosive.

And it didn't used to be that way: Gary Cooper's character in _High Noon_... the man who knows enough about the world to be afraid and doubt themselves, but also understands their ironclad moral duty and personal responsibility, even in hopeless causes, is no longer seen as a 'real man.'

Instead, we get... Jake.

 

[camube]

While Race of Life is pretty uneven, the writing high point is pretty high. I think Veronica is quite realistic, and the dynamic between Allison and the MC (on the bickering path) is really realistic.

While nowhere near S-tier, not even A-tier as a whole game, i do look forward to future writing of Allison and the MC. That particular portion is far above average.

 

[Raife]

See, if Jake was sincere about reconciliation, he would stop fucking everyone else.

I for one think a St. Paul on the road to Damascus-style redemption arc isn't very compelling (it's not really an arc, but a moment). Redemption arcs for truly bad characters need to be slow, intensely painful and tragic -- for both the character and the player. (I.e. massively unpopular among most AVN players.)

For example... a good story first game would use Allison (from RfL) as a mirror that gradually revealed all of the MC's flaws... in a way that made him recognize and truly feel them. As jufot says, Jake says _some_ of the right words -- although his self-justifying speech when we first meet Allison is pure pseudo-contrition and sophistry. The man abandoned his family -- a good family who clearly loved him. He needs to own that, to feel that, to open the possibility of redemption. The process of slowly coming to that realization should be very uncomfortable for the player to roleplay. My guess is that there's a 10% chance of this happening with the Allison arc in RfL... which is enough to keep me playing.

But... a great story-first game would then kill off that precious LI right after the MC deeply understood the awfulness of his behaviour, showed genuine contrition, recognised her pricelessness, and won her back. Now THAT would be something like tragedy that transforms... but it's also something that I never expect to see an AVN dev try (for obvious reasons).

 

[jufot]

I for one think a St. Paul on the road to Damascus-style redemption arc isn't very compelling (it's not really an arc, but a moment). Redemption arcs for truly bad characters need to be slow, intensely painful and tragic -- for both the character and the player. (I.e. massively unpopular among most AVN players.)

I agree with that in general, but in this specific case it feels like Allison is making bigger overtures towards reconciliation than Jake, and that feels unearned, at least for now. I would have expected her to wait for real, measurable improvement on Jake's part beyond cheap words, before inviting him over for a home-cooked dinner.

But... a great story-first game would then kill off that precious LI right after the MC deeply understood the awfulness of his behaviour, showed genuine contrition, recognised her pricelessness, and won her back. Now THAT would be something like tragedy that transforms... but it's also something that I never expect to see an AVN dev try (for obvious reasons).

Oh, that would have been brilliant, I love a tragic death! Surely there is a brave AVN dev out there who can top Acting Lessons on this?

 

[Ezykeyal]

Oh, that would have been brilliant, I love a tragic death! Surely there is a brave AVN dev out there who can top Acting Lessons on this?

 

[Garou24]

Oh, that would have been brilliant, I love a tragic death! Surely there is a brave AVN dev out there who can top Acting Lessons on this?

If only.....

 

[jufot]

If only.....

Wow, alright. I love both of your games and now I'm really excited!

 

[Raife]

Oh, that would have been brilliant, I love a tragic death! Surely there is a brave AVN dev out there who can top Acting Lessons on this?

Now you're just trolling me! (That scene in _Acting Lessons_ was such a disaster, including for the dev.) But I also know, with certainty, that you also 100% agree. You would love to play a game like that.

And it would be awesome. Imagine an AVN with a bunch of anodyne, supportive and kind LIs who just want to have hot sex with the MC and validate his opinions. And one LI ('best girl') who tells the MC the truth about himself -- sees him for the disaster that he actually is, but loves him despite herself. She gradually alters the MCs own understanding of his mode of life and being, to the point where he understands that he has been a bad person (Jake-style) and should be better. They get together after many adventures... and she dies.

That would feel, that would taste, like life to me: the sweet and the bitter.

Best of all, the player would have to deliberately choose that brew for themselves. To get the best girl, they have to _hurt_... and then they lose her anyway.

 

[Raife]

Wow, alright. I love both of your games and now I'm really excited!

I don't believe it for a second. But... I am enjoying both of their games and have started sponsoring Mr. Werewolf's effort. All I can say is: no guts, no glory!

 

[jufot]

Now you're just trolling me! (That scene in _Acting Lessons_ was such a disaster, including for the dev.) But I also know, with certainty, that you also 100% agree. You would love to play a game like that.

Indeed. While the execution was... lackluster, I love that he at least tried. It's certainly unique among AVNs.

That would feel, that would taste, like life to me: the sweet and the bitter.

Best of all, the player would have to deliberately choose that brew for themselves. To get the best girl, they have to _hurt_... and then they lose her anyway.

That sounds amazing and unlikely. Too risky for an AVN developer, especially if they are in it for the money.

 

[camube]

I for one think a St. Paul on the road to Damascus-style redemption arc isn't very compelling (it's not really an arc, but a moment). Redemption arcs for truly bad characters need to be slow, intensely painful and tragic -- for both the character and the player. (I.e. massively unpopular among most AVN players.)

For example... good story first game would use Allison (from RfL) as a mirror that gradually revealed all of the MC's flaws... in a way that made him recognize and truly feel them. As jufot says, Jake says _some_ of the right words -- although his self-justifying speech when we first meet Allison is pure pseudo-contrition and sophistry. The man abandoned his family -- a good family who clearly loved him. He needs to own that, to feel that, to open the possibility of redemption. The process of slowly coming to that realization should be very uncomfortable for the player to roleplay. My guess is that there's a 10% chance of this happening with the Allison arc in RfL... which is enough to keep me playing.

But... a great story-first game would then kill off that precious LI right after the MC deeply understood the awfulness of his behaviour, showed genuine contrition, recognised her pricelessness, and won her back. Now THAT would be something like tragedy that transforms... but it's also something that I never expect to see an AVN dev try (for obvious reasons).

I agree with the portion of your post where you think MC is a dick to his ex-wife. He is.
Both him and Allison portion of the game is realistic exactly because of that dynamic.

 

[camube]

is shards of the past the game where our past decisions affects other characters in the present or something like that?

cuz if so, Seeking Closure is trying to do the same thing too.

 

[Dessolos]

I see some post here about things they didn't like about Race of Life it's personally in my top 3 but not really here to defend if it's a good or bad game especially cause everyone likes different things.

I just wanted to say even if it doesn't count for this thread I personally putting Race of Life on my personal story first game list. because unlike alot of AVN game I've played Race of Life feels like it's always moving the story forward instead of getting to know LI over story. To me that's the definition of story first not the quality of the story but I understand the quality should matter to some extent. Just wanted to state my opinion even if it ultimately doesn't matter

 

[Garou24]

I don't believe it for a second. But... I am enjoying both of their games and have started sponsoring Mr. Werewolf's effort. All I can say is: no guts, no glory!

With a gasp of disbelief, she stared at Raife, who did not trust her words.

 

[camube]

because unlike alot of AVN game I've played Race of Life feels like it's always moving the story forward instead of getting to know LI over story. To me that's the definition of story first not the quality of the story

this is why i think arson betrayal is story-first, cuz the story keeps moving

pacing is pretty amazing tbh