Recommending Story-first games

[jufot]

Some thoughts on the latest Courtship update:

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[Tlaero]

I've been under the weather for the last few days and had some extra time to try a game that you folks have talked about here.

I went with Ch1 of Short Sad Stories, and there were a lot of things that I liked about it.

I liked how human it is. These characters seem very real and timeless to me. I suspect we all knew people like these when we were in high school, even though some of us were there many decades ago and some are there now.

I liked that the pseudo-antagonist boyfriend is actually a good guy, and the MC even recognizes it.

I liked that the drug dealer has feelings and emotions too, and not just stereotypical ones.

Like I said, the characters feel real.

I like the art style. I don't know if it's intentional or a result of the tools that Panda used, but it has an artistic feel to it that's different from they hyper-realistic style we're getting out of DAZ these days. (Don't get me wrong, I like that style too, but it's good to get some variety, especially if it's intentional.)

I'm generally not a fan of sound effects in an AVN, but I felt that these worked well.

I struggled a little bit with the English, and it pulled me out of the story a number of times, but I only speak one language, and I couldn't possibly do this well in any non-native language, so kudos for that.

Nothing surprised me in the plot, but I didn't mind so much since the characters were so real.

This isn't really my style of game, but I enjoyed it none the less. Thank you for the recommendation!

Tlaero

 

[jufot]

I like the art style. I don't know if it's intentional or a result of the tools that Panda used, but it has an artistic feel to it that's different from they hyper-realistic style we're getting out of DAZ these days.

Part of it is the tools, I imagine, but Panda puts a lot of effort into facial expressions and body language. It makes a huge difference in how immersive the game feels.

I'm glad you liked it!

 

[bacienvu88]

Talothral's Terminus Reach: Sentinel 2 just got completed.

 

[kotte]

Did anyone play 2 Sides? I know it's unusual for me to recommend an incest game, but this one has a lot going for it in a way we don't really see in AVNs.

...

Does that sound interesting to anyone?

Yes! It is on my follow list, although I haven't had the time to play the latest release.
It was quite some time ago that I realized that I couldn't disqualify games just because they have incest content, even though it doesn't interest me. That would just mean missing out on some potential good stuff. And sometimes you can avoid it by just not applying the ipatch.

Initially, "2 Sides" put me off a little. The combination of incest and renders that seemed a bit... I don't know, amateurish? ...made me hesitate, but I quickly found that the writing compensated for all of that.
Just as you, I found it interesting that Gwen seems to be a real person and not just a prop to use as a plot device.

It is also going to be interesting to see how the dev handles the combinatorial effect of having to show everything twice (throwback to Tlaero's experience with Toro7). But do they? It seems like they are going for a solution where you don't have to show everything in every playthrough, by concentrating on what the current MC experiences.

 

[jufot]

I couldn't disqualify games just because they have incest content, even though it doesn't interest me. That would just mean missing out on some potential good stuff.

That's been my thinking as well, and it definitely worked here.

It is also going to be interesting to see how the dev handles the combinatorial effect of having to show everything twice (throwback to Tlaero's experiance with Toro7). But do they? It seems like they are going for a solution where you don't have to show everything in every playthrough, by concentrating on what the current MC experiences.

It helps when the protagonists cut each other off for more than a year Now that there is a reunion though, I expect the scenes will largely be the same and only the current character's feelings and internal narration will differ.

 

[EndlessNights]

Some thoughts on the latest Courtship update:

It felt rather like a transition update to me. It didn't intrigue me as much as the game's debut did, but it probably was necessary to set the stage for more exciting future events. Few of our past decisions seemed to affect the story to any great extent, but we learned some important information about the death of the MC's father that certainly heighten that mystery. In addition, several new characters were introduced, but most of the LIs only made passing appearances (and poor Jane got left out entirely).

It's still quite early on and this is a perfect time to get caught up with the game if anyone hasn't tried it yet.

EDIT: It seems that there actually IS some Jane content in the new update according to ename's post on the game thread. I'm apparently just not on Jane's path on my Jane save. This brings back memories of A.O.A! Or maybe I just mislabeled my save. I'll have to do a new playthrough from scratch I guess.

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In other news, TrueLoveGames made a shock appearance on the A.O.A. Academy thread but left no indication that work on the game would resume any time soon. Also, there's finally a new update out for A Mother's Love after OrbOrigin took an extended break away from development due to family issues.

 

[jufot]

To be honest, I think Augusta was blatantly lying.

I hope so. I like both of your proposed endings. The latter especially sounds fun!

As much as I want Elinor out of that house as soon as possible, it does give me pause to realize the MC and Elinor would likely be stuck with her dad meddling in their lives for the duration.

It depends on what MC's ultimate title and social status will be. Though I don't think it would be easy for him to somehow rank above a sitting member of the House of Lords, a Peer of the realm!

I did think it strange that Elinor's father would act like divorce was no big deal and that the MC could just marry another of his daughters if Elinor didn't please him.

I don't think he was suggesting a divorce, more just "replacing" her with another daughter as a mistress. The idea of divorce wouldn't even occur to someone so outwardly conservative.

 

[Jaike]

I don't think he was suggesting a divorce, more just "replacing" her with another daughter as a mistress. The idea of divorce wouldn't even occur to someone so outwardly conservative.

Now, now, nothing shouts true blue conservative family values like a wife in the salon, a spaniel before the fireplace, a horse in the stables, pushing one mistress out the backdoor, letting a new one in through the sidedoor, and living as a gent in a country house off your tenants. Peerless!

Now would you like another nosing glass of Laphroaig, sir?

 

[jufot]

Now, now, nothing shouts true blue conservative family values like a wife in the salon, a spaniel before the fireplace, a horse in the stables, pushing one mistress out the backdoor, letting a new one in through the sidedoor, and living as a gent in a country house off your tenants. Peerless!

Quite right, young lass. Quite right!

Now would you like another nosing glass of Laphroaig, sir?

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[bacienvu88]

Noticed True Love got a renpy remaster which took me down memory lane to the first AVNs / dating sims I played around 1999 / 2000 I guess (not sure when exactly I actually played them ...).

The following is from what I remember, please don't shoot me if I remember wrong.

True Love is a VN / dating sim hybrid in a high school setting, you want to gain either intelligence, strength or charisma to get a girl who matches what you are good at. Don't remember much more.

Season of Sakura which is a VN where you solve high school girls's mental problems through having sex with them. Sometimes with quite a lot of coercion. And it also has a rather vicious rape scene of an antagonist girl. I guess the novelty of an AVN was enough for me to get through it, wouldn't play it again.

May Club. Also high school setting. Here you get to experience a full immersion virtual reality world which just happens to be mostly the same as the real world. Except people can be more free and uninhibited because it isn't "real". Don't remember the plot beyond that.

Divi Dead. A horror themed one that I remember that I found to be good. And also high school setting with some secret magic society stuff. Also don't remember the details here.

Then there's stuff like Three Sisters's Story, Eve: Burst Error, Nocturnal Illusion, Time-stripper Mako-chan and Runaway City which I only remember the titles of.

 

[Mravac Kid]

I'll second the True Love suggestion, it's one of my favorite oldschool dating sims. I'd add Tokimeki Check-In, for its amazing amount of different character sprites.
And while we're on the subject of good old games, I would also add Ever 17: The Out of Infinity, the story is great though it's a bit of a slog to go through as you need to finish it 3 times to get the "true end" and the translation is hella janky. The other games in the Infinity series (Never 7 and Remember 11) are reportedly also pretty good, but I haven't gotten around to playing them yet.

 

[Vasin]

I have played Anumus Non Grata, and I feel like the game warrants a mention in this thread. It does technically fulfil the story-first criteria, but then it is immediately disqualified by it's subject matter. I would definitely not recommend playing it to anyone that has a weak stomach for extreme and potentially non-consensual BDSM (the player has a choice as to how it plays out), but the writing quality more than makes up for it imo if you can get over it (or if it's your thing). Without getting too much into spoiler territory, a reviewer described the game as a mix of "Get Out" and "50 Shades of Grey", I would probably add "Saw" and "Blade Runner" as it can veer into almost literally torture porn and has some hard sci-fi elements. The game itself is a masterclass in unreliable narration trope and has several different endings depending on your choices.

It's made in Twine and technically has some images that are currently WIP and some music, but most importantly the story is completely written and playable start to finish already (although most of it is in text-only mode).

 

[jufot]

Occultus: Daughter of Darkness chapter 7 is

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[EndlessNights]

Noticed True Love got a renpy remaster which took me down memory lane to the first AVNs / dating sims I played around 1999 / 2000 I guess (not sure when exactly I actually played them ...).

The following is from what I remember, please don't shoot me if I remember wrong.

I also played some of these back in the day though I don't think I was even familiar with the term "visual novel" back then. I probably wouldn't go back and play any again now -- from what I remember, the stories tended to be a bit shallow, the writing/translation awkward, and some have underage characters. So many of the games you mentioned seem to be set in high school. Japan seems to have a serious high school cultural obsession (well, at least based on VNs and anime) that I don't really understand. I don't think I'll ever get old enough to actually feel nostalgic for high school...just what is supposed to be so great about being a confused, impulsive idiot surrounded by a lot of other equally confused, impulsive idiots? Though definitely not completely free of confused, impulsive idiots, college is a bit of a different story and I do have some nostalgia for those years. High school, though? I'm just glad it's over.

Flowers is one of the few Japanese VNs I've played that at least is willing to depict high school characters as uncertain of themselves, prone to arbitrary and even malicious emotionally-driven behavior that they haven't really thought through, and still very much learning about life and who they are. It's just a bit more grounded and less idealized view of school life than I've seen in most similar games where high schoolers are often depicted as totally self-assured and already set in their ways. I would recommend the game in general: it's an all-ages lesbian VN that's quite artistic and well-written though I don't expect to actually finish the four game series for a couple more years as it's quite lengthy and legendarily slow-placed.

Well, time to get back on topic. Maybe if we pool our foggy memories of these old games we'll at least be able to approximate something roughly equivalent to a true impression. Massive spoilers will definitely follow, but, hey, it's been decades at this point.

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[EndlessNights]

I have played Anumus Non Grata, and I feel like the game warrants a mention in this thread. It does technically fulfil the story-first criteria, but then it is immediately disqualified by it's subject matter. I would definitely not recommend playing it to anyone that has a weak stomach for extreme and potentially non-consensual BDSM (the player has a choice as to how it plays out), but the writing quality more than makes up for it imo if you can get over it (or if it's your thing).

For me, it would be a question of whether the narrative actually pays off anywhere near enough to make up for the utter misery of the experience. It probably wouldn't be worth it for me given my stomach for sexual brutality and anything noncon. I thought mizuno_j wrote a critique that sounded both pretty definitive and quite damning. Do you disagree with that take?

The relationship sounds utterly coercive from beginning to end from what I can tell from browsing the game thread. The MC is an android who is treated as property and used as a sex toy. If she tries to resist that fate she is brutalized in extreme ways. If she submits, she's treated "better" but still used as a sex toy. She nonetheless seems to develop some sort of kinship or acceptance for her abuser on all routes (perhaps faked if secretly defiant?) that is apparently ascribed to Stockholm syndrome or not really explained at all. If that's anywhere near an accurate summation, it sounds less like a story about a real abusive relationship and more of an excuse for brutal scenes.

 

[Vasin]

Do you disagree with that take?

Sort of. Not as much with the characterisation of the man but rather with the evaluation of the quality of the story. While the violence is graphic it never struck me as gratuitous nor did the game try to endorse or make up any moral excuses for the behaviour. I completely understand how one might find subject matter of the game revolting and repulsive but at the same time saying that the character in the game is not some romanticized softcore BDSM enthusiast and is a "sadist" is like saying that Hannibal Lecter is a cannibal. It's not surprising.

The plot point mentioned (inaccurately, I might add) happens I think about 1/3 if not 1/4th into the story so making a judgment about the entire game is premature, especially if it's based solely on personal preference.

I completely agree that it is most definitely not the game for everyone (or most people, really) though.

 

[EndlessNights]

Sort of. Not as much with the characterisation of the man but rather with the evaluation of the quality of the story. While the violence is graphic it never struck me as gratuitous nor did the game try to endorse or make up any moral excuses for the behaviour. I completely understand how one might find subject matter of the game revolting and repulsive but at the same time saying that the character in the game is not some romanticized softcore BDSM enthusiast and is a "sadist" is like saying that Hannibal Lecter is a cannibal. It's not surprising.

I guess I'm just struggling to see the hook that turns it into a good story though I understand you're probably trying to avoid spoilers. If it's just about some psycho abusing his android slave who nonetheless bonds with him no matter how he treats her because of Stockholm syndrome, I could see it working as wish fulfillment for people who find that scenario hot but that's not a plot line that really jumps out at me as being particularly fascinating in and of itself. I find that Stockholm syndrome (which is rare in real life, even in extreme situations) is often used in stories as a convenience that lets the author avoid exploring characters' motivations and inner thoughts and explain away their irrational behavior.

The story that mizuno seemingly would have preferred to see sounds on the surface like it would have been more interesting though still disturbing. It would've involved manipulation like gaslighting and generally more subtle forms of psychological abuse, especially at the beginning of the relationship in order to reel the MC in. I would expect that approach to make both the relationship and the characters' behavior more plausible.

 

[jufot]

Bride of a Dead God's fourth chapter is out on

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[camube]

why does patreon new feeds the way that it is

it's stupid