Recommending Story-first games

[Canto Forte]

Here is the deal:

Games around here are work in progress most of the time and if you ask any developer who is doing work in progress - either making a AAA game to ship completed in ten years or using SS or Patreon to get funded - they are constantly looking for refurbishings, better story ideas, better writing, better time management, better promotion, better art, better supporters.

Being a work in progress, it is not a Novel or a AAA game that ship completed out of the box.

Feedback and brainstorming ideas with literally everyone they can pick the mind of - is the easy way to be on your toes and relevant in today age of milisecond access to literally everyone and everything.

Even if you are a grand master chess player looking to freshen your strategies or looking to amass more of them for your tournaments, you will always absorb everything and everyone like a sponge.

That is called a creative process of works that are right now being made, not full novels ready to print.

Anyone can make a PDF and sell it on Ebay or Patreon or SS - there is no fancy gating of any content.

I think some devs do put weight on the feedbacks they read on their game's discussion thread, whether it's here or elsewhere on the internet.

Everybody writes by comitee - even if it is the renders guy telling the code guy what he/she/they like or do not like in their games story.
There is a lot to be said about developers working in a team - with the feedback and the direct input of literally everyone involved,
but lonesome devs will also look for kinship in their followers, their supporters, their fans, their gamers - each group comes with very speciffically hard rails where they will give feedback in their remote field of interest - these devs need to brainstorm all those very varied inputs and come out of them with a sane mind and ever more devoted to their craft.

Not all ideas are good ideas but I view writing by committee as not a good idea.

 

[kotte]

There is a game out there that barely just began but I think has a sharp writing, and has a plot that makes sense that, even a year after I played that game, I still remember some character and part of it's story. I just learned that the game is speculated to be abandoned because the latest update from a year ago received heavy criticism.

While I agree with your sentiment, I think you're conflating "F95" and "The target audience for AVNs." While F95 is a large audience, they're not the only one. And, though people on F95 seem to think that they are the only people who matter, that's clearly not the case. For example, ArianeB has zero presence here, and is making a living writing her AVNs.

It's definitely a shame when a promising developer fails. But failure in any endeavor is common. Something like 80% of all restaurants fail in the first year.

I think as a game dev, you need to have a little bit thicker skin than, say, someone who designs spreadsheets for the financial department. And if you add the word "adult" to your product, you immediately level up to "hard". Being able to earn a living out of it should probably be considered the final achievement, not Step 1 or 2.

An difficult dilemma is that, while most users on F95 don't pay a penny to the creators, F95 is still an very good way to reach more (potentially paying) customers. If I ever were to create a game, I would probably need to ask someone else to do interactions on F95 for me, because I don't have thick enough skin. But a presence here is quite important.

What you can do is support the people who are trying to make the things you like. It doesn't have to be money/patronage. Just getting positive feedback in the sea of negativity can convince a writer to keep going. Don't take for granted what encouragement will do for people who are struggling. And, if you can afford to toss some money their way, all the better.

Since this is the thread where the reasonable people of this site hang out, I think Tlaero's words are worth repeating. Use your voice for good. If you can, throw in a sensible post when there is a flame war going on in a game thread. Interact on Patreon and Subscribestar. I actually have a couple of $1-patronages just to be able to comment.

 

[kotte]

Probably too early to recommend for this thread. I just played the Prologue of The missing Part. I thought it was just as good on an emotional level as Leap of Faith just from a prologue. I think it's one worth keeping an eye out on.

Interesting! Here is a comment with a link to it, to make sure it gets picked up by my Jufot's Story-first thread-compiler...

 

[SolarWindCatcher]

Great list but please add Completed/On-going tag along with game's title. So many VNs in development end up being abandoned by devs so lately I try to play only completed games to get results of my choices during gameplay.

 

[Geigi]

Lately I realized that most AVNs are probably not made for me.

Me too. It sucks visiting this site for years and barely finding a fmc erotic/porn game that's only targeted to women. So, BL games are my new fixation.

 

[Canto Forte]

Here is where it gets wrong ... so very much wrong!

These games written by a heterosexual woman are astounding as they offer absolute blyss for playing a female main character looking for a heterosexual or lezbian relationship - Toro 7 and Gemini

Flexing their muscles, girls who develop games offer both male and female perspectives for the protagonist - FMC and MMC - and their games often offer a much more encompassing experience about the story and the plot of games where such different perspectives enrich the lore and endear the players more to the world of their games.

There are games for FMC building a harem, FMC cheating all the time, FMC being the ruling caste:
Karlssons Gambit, GGGB, The singer, Adventurous couple, Pandoras box, Exciting adventures, The shaddow over Blackmoor, a slew of femdom onesided other games where effeminated/small/fragile/dumb/inadequate/retarded males are the MC, because this accentuated the excessive domineering that the female characters are doing for the duration of those games.

Me too. It sucks visiting this site for years and barely finding a fmc erotic/porn game that's only targeted to women. So, BL games are my new fixation.

There is a very long running preconception that girls are the only ones worthy of beauty or adoration in that sense, therefore most of the time the games are about finding the astounding beauty in girls and most in awe about such games are males who make up the majority of the players - they are much easier to satisfy and it is very easy to keep them hyped up when you make a game about astounding girls.

Girl boss games are many around here - most of the time gamers prefer to be their slaves/doormats and males are the tabu slaves/meat of domineering girl bosses - so you will have many games where the actual protagonist is a girl boss, but the perspective you play as is the dominated male being ground into dust.

Many devs do minimum to get maximum results, so you will have the above mentioned types of games made most of the times as their gamer base is huge in comparison to snobs who look for Game of Thrones, War and Peace or Lord of the rings levels of character buildup in their female characters.

 

[Pgsurprise]

Me too. It sucks visiting this site for years and barely finding a fmc erotic/porn game that's only targeted to women. So, BL games are my new fixation.

Maybe you could start a thread like this one for FMC?

 

[365 others]

Lately I realized that most AVNs are probably not made for me. I'm not the target audience because in order to earn support, most devs has to sacrifice the "Novel" part of AVNs.

I'm aware that the way people consume stories, some people put themselves on first person perspective, another portion of people put ourselves on third person perspective, an observer.

I can't agree more with you. It's been getting tough to find good AVNs that match my likings, and the few there take a long time to get updates (though I'm supporting several of them).

For example, ArianeB has zero presence here, and is making a living writing her AVNs.

I just googled her and seems her AVNs revolve all in the same universe and same character (Arianne). They look good, but I'm looking for some reviews to see if I buy the whole trilogy (the 4th game seems to be following the same character and universe, but it's still in development).

Do you know any other devs/games that have no presence here but have good content? I got tired of looking in itch.io and SubscribeStar as there are a ton but many (if not most of all) seem to lack depth in the story or content they have.

 

[Deleted member 2577953]

As bad as things are, now, it used to be much worse. 35 years ago, the only way for a writer to sell a book was to get it published by one of a small number of publishers. And even if the writer managed to get noticed by one of those publishers, the bookstores would only stock their book for a short time before tearing off the cover and sending it back. 30 years ago, Amazon started selling book from anyone. But you still had to pay a ton of money to get your books printed. 25ish years ago, you started seeing digital books that allowed everyday people to write stories for very little cost to them and sell them online. Now you don't even have to sell them. You have places like Patreon to support you.

This is the exact reason why I keep trying to tell my stories, despite the poor financial performance of most of my works.

No matter how tough things are, I know that it's an amazing gift to be able to directly reach readers/players across the world, at almost zero cost.

If not for that, someone like me could have never even thought about writing fiction as a career path.

Sure, there are times when the same thing messes with my confidence. Like, my brain goes - "Dude, you have access to the entire world, and you can't even impress 10 readers enough to support you? You suck."

Still, when the fog clears up, I know it's just a matter of not giving up, because there is no time as good as now to make VNs.

And who knows, there might come a day where a site like f95 is made just for the story-first AVNs, and ends up being just as popular.

 

[Deleted member 2577953]

On a different note,

For example, ArianeB has zero presence here, and is making a living writing her AVNs.

I happened across the Ariane Universe games last year and fell in love with it big time. (I honestly thought it was one of those projects that didn't have an audience despite being good.)

But only after seeing this post, did I check out ArianeB's site (and the 3-part history of her games.)

I did NOT know how influential the game was in shaping the entire western AVN scene as we know it.

 

[Pgsurprise]

This is the exact reason why I keep trying to tell my stories, despite the poor financial performance of most of my works.

No matter how tough things are, I know that it's an amazing gift to be able to directly reach readers/players across the world, at almost zero cost.

If not for that, someone like me could have never even thought about writing fiction as a career path.

Sure, there are times when the same thing messes with my confidence. Like, my brain goes - "Dude, you have access to the entire world, and you can't even impress 10 readers enough to support you? You suck."

Still, when the fog clears up, I know it's just a matter of not giving up, because there is no time as good as now to make VNs.

And who knows, there might come a day where a site like f95 is made just for the story-first AVNs, and ends up being just as popular.

Do you have works here? Your profile is locked, so it's kinda hard to tell.

 

[whowhawhy]

Do you have works here? Your profile is locked, so it's kinda hard to tell.

https://f95zone.to/threads/twin-eclipse-v0-4-93-branches.201614/

to get around private profiles you can click on an user's avatar or username to open a popup box and then click on the number of messages to open a list of their posts. forum search also allows you restricting it to posts by member

 

[Pgsurprise]

https://f95zone.to/threads/twin-eclipse-v0-4-93-branches.201614/

to get around private profiles you can click on an user's avatar or username to open a popup box and then click on the number of messages to open a list of their posts. forum search also allows you restricting it to posts by member

Thanks. I got confused by it being by 93 Branches and just thought they liked the game .

 

[Deleted member 2577953]

Do you have works here? Your profile is locked, so it's kinda hard to tell.

Sorry, I have no idea how the profile info works on this site. So, not sure what details it shows.

As whowhawhy mentioned, Twin Eclipse is my most recent work. I've also been working on Zia (with Sarnko) for a while now.

But I think my most "popular" work would probably be One Night Stand (with Junior).

 

[Tlaero]

I happened across the Ariane Universe games last year and fell in love with it big time. (I honestly thought it was one of those projects that didn't have an audience despite being good.)

But only after seeing this post, did I check out ArianeB's site (and the 3-part history of her games.)

I did NOT know how influential the game was in shaping the entire western AVN scene as we know it.

Yeah, Ariane and I have a long history of inspiring each other. Her first game is what caused me to start creating my own erotic games so long ago. And I was one of the first devs to start putting stories in the western AVN genre that she invented, which drove her to follow suit. She also did the first port of my original Elsaverse games to Renpy (we both started out in HTML) and I used that work as a template for my official ports (which ended up becoming the Omnibus). I definitely wouldn't be here if not for Ariane.

Tlaero

 

[Pgsurprise]

Sorry, I have no idea how the profile info works on this site. So, not sure what details it shows.

As whowhawhy mentioned, Twin Eclipse is my most recent work. I've also been working on Zia (with Sarnko) for a while now.

But I think my most "popular" work would probably be One Night Stand (with Junior).

Thank you. I'll check them out.

 

[Deleted member 2577953]

Yeah, Ariane and I have a long history of inspiring each other. Her first game is what caused me to start creating my own erotic games so long ago. And I was one of the first devs to start putting stories in the western AVN genre that she invented, which drove her to follow suit. She also did the first port of my original Elsaverse games to Renpy (we both started out in HTML) and I used that work as a template for my official ports (which ended up becoming the Omnibus). I definitely wouldn't be here if not for Ariane.

Tlaero

Yeah, that's another thing I saw while reading those three posts. How long you've been in the scene too.

I must say it's quite humbling and inspiring to see all of that. (Made me think I should just focus on getting better and keep doing what what needs to be done.)

 

[Pgsurprise]

Yeah, that's another thing I saw while reading those three posts. How long you've been in the scene too.

I must say it's quite humbling and inspiring to see all of that. (Made me think I should just focus on getting better and keep doing what what needs to be done.)

I don't know the history of AVNs and stuff, but from what I remember those early html games she made were some of the only adult games that had a story. I don't remember anything else like it at the time. And, if I remember right, it wasn't the html boiler template common today. Much cleaner.

 

[guidedbyvoices]

Can anyone tell me what's so great about "Leap of Faith"? I've read a lot of reviews and comments praising it as one of the best NV out there, but I'm just not drawn to the characters and I've already downloaded it 3 times trying to follow the story, but I'm so disinterested, I've only gotten as far as the part after the plane ride.


So I want to ask if something more interesting happens later.

EXACTLY LIKE THAT, I'm eager to do a full bomb review on how that game is a massive turn off and has every element which make an AVN wrong. I bought it after it was finished because it had such high praises I took for granted that the game was at least serviceable.


I thought about writting the review in the game's thread, but it's probably full of fanbois and I understand they won't like to read it.


So, for the time being, these are the reasons why I think the game has a TERRIBLE story development and interactions with women, and NOBODY interested in story heavy games should play it:


1º Women throw themselves at the protagonist for no reason at all. Even a rockstar singer he didn't know beforehand does it after a 2 minutes chance conversation WTF It's the most unreal thing I ever saw in a story, and I'm including fantasy games with magic, hentai games etc... This is the typical hentai experience but this was supposed to be a game with a serious story.


2º Story development and interaction with women looks like it was written by a 12 years old boy with 0 experience about real, actual 18 to 50 women. Except for one character (more on this on 3º point), they don't talk like that, they don't think like that, they don't act like that and they for sure don't interact with a nobody man like that.


3º The main LI is a textbook young BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) with suicidal tendencies. This is the point I might be more biased to think this isn't any kind of groundbreaking element in the history of storytelling, because if you never knew one you might be impacted. But if you had any kind of dating experience (either fuckboi or just looking for a LTR) or if you happened to interact with one for a mid to long period of time, then they aren't any kind of positive surprise to you. You wouldn't feel sorry for them and wouldn't want to have any of it with them, because you would know they are trouble asking for help they will reject when offered, among many other toxic behaviours.


This is the most realistic character in the game, I suppose it's because I read somewhere that the author based this game on her daughter, which commited suicide, so he knew BPDs well. It's an odd thing to do a tribute to your suicided daughter in the form of a porn game, but that's the way it was. The other women are taken out of a 12 years old boy fantasy, very shocking for a man which had sons, you can presume he had to deal with at least a woman.


4º I couldn't put up with the game for long, but from what I know from my gameplay experience and what I read from others, you get a hentai harem in place just to be required to end up with only one. And the story is presented, as hard as it could, for you to end up with the BPD. Really? The game sets up a hentai harem for you just to be REQUIRED to choose only one? I get it had to be the BPD because it's the author own daughter, but then why setting up the harem story.


5º I couldn't put up with the game for long enough to check this myself, but I know from reading spoilers that the protagonist was married to the perfect, loving and caring woman, which dumped him by suddenly disappearing, and it results she did it because she was a spy. LOL WTF then again hentai fantasy here, real life spy women are cold, soulless whores which would NEVER marry a nice guy AND THEN REGRET DUMPING HIM. They might marry a nice guy if it suits them, but they would never care about it, they would just ride onto the next dick with absolutely no regrets, because all they care about is they themselves.


I couldn't finish the game but I'm sure the end is a shitshow as shitty as the beginning and mid parts.


I just can't understand how the game became as famous and as well rated, it's really subpar at every possible level, I thought it might be because it was released many years ago (like in 2016 or something like that) and it was ground breaking then, but no, it was finished in 2022 so it's not old.

 

[Canto Forte]

The great debate is, was and always will be about the substance in story and the prowess of our gaming experiences around these parts, which is the right debate to have. Whichever part of that debate you might be on, you are right about catering to your tastes and modelling your free time after what it is that gives you the endorfines you require for a good time.

On the other hand, adult life takes you places and all that remains are the good/foggy/bad bits and pieces of the memories that shape your character whenever you look in the mirror or inside the inner sanctum of your soul to see what images shine back.

Spoiler: The games of our dreams ...

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The contended games that are three - they are all Mission impossible / Top Gun / Fast and Furious type games with swift and sweeping romanticized hook ups and bits and pieces of relationship - building plot progression, sprinkled around the fast paced action montages.
What all of the above means is that - if you are not a fan of Tom Cruise / Ethan Hawk / Vin Diesel / Paul Walker . Dwaine Johnsoms, Jason Statham, Charlize theron, Jason Momoa and/or their many associates and/or antagonists, but also enjoy the convoluted and contorted many plot points, that are all running close to eachother never touching and sometimes, they twist and wrestle eachother, interwoven with eachother in such movies and the games modelled around them, you will be a sower grape in their rollercoaster gameplay while the majority of the other players will scream their hearts out coupiously entertained by the outstanding visuals, beautiful and interesting characters and the many interwoven plot strands running through them like love at first sight cutting your breath and melting your heart.

To keep the story going - Superman only became ”attractive” to Lois as Clark after a lot of superhero feats.
Edward Cullen only stroke the love bone of Bella after he superhumanly saved her from sudden death or serious danger.
Only after Bumblebee performed outstanding ”mating rituals” onto Megan Fox and the car was revealed to be phenomenal, did she suddenly notice the driver - who was not even that, Bumblebee was sentient and did all the stunt driving to impress on his own.
MC of Leap of Faith is a nepo baby with a devoted best friend and a mountain of ”oil money” that Stephanie knows all too well - and the total trope of ”protector or savior gets the girl” from that old Whitney Houston - Kevin Costner - Bodiguard movie is a fan favourite story and plot breakthrough into making sudden romances beliaveble, beyond the nonsensical IRL ”love at first sight” occurances.

I'm really clueless about how this might be possible

unbelievable romances is Transformers 1, that a very nerdy and socially clumsy Shia LaBeouf could romance "bad girl into bad boys" prime Megan Fox