Recommending Story-first games

5.00 star(s) 8 Votes

Jaike

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
1,987
8,163
659
Guess that means I'll have to add LDNA to my play list. :unsure:

Jufot Nelson have you given Tribulations of a Mage a spin yet? I didn't play the terminus reach games a try but in my opinion it's been
Not sure there are many other Talothral shills still in this topic beside me. I've completed his 3 first VNs, and I've tried an early version of Tribulations of a Mage and will give it another run soon. I can recommend the Terminus Reach: Sentinel series, but suggest you first read a little about international relations theory first so you can appreciate more of the themes, and finally be prepared for a visual downgrade with the first Terminus Reach: Sentinel.

I do think the drama in his stories come more from the mysteries and the political maneuvering, cause the MCs are often so powerful and we all know there'll be a harem ending.
 

yossa999

Engaged Member
Dec 5, 2020
3,616
24,158
669
Acting Lesson is more hated then loved by most because of that reason.
I do agree but with just one remark. AL was the sacrificial goat that DPC slaughtered to get a +50% attention bonus. I don't know how many people love the game and how many hate it, but almost everyone knew about the game and its author who pulled off such a stunt. The game was certainly talked about everywhere. So when DPC released the first episode of BaD, the initial interest was just colossal due to the previous fame. So no, it was not a bad writing, but a cold, calculated move.
 

realjitter

Member
Jun 21, 2021
319
400
187
such a stunt
I don't get, if anything it got me more hyped about AVN's going forward since AL was also the first AVN i've read. Dramatic events are present in every media everywhere. Even freaking Hallmark movies do have them (I assume, maybe not :p). So what is this here, the hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil club?. Same goes for when people bring up "escapism". Like, what are they even talking about?. First of all escapism is a vastly exaggerated word in my opinion, entertainment would be more accurate. And when I bring up entertainment, well, I dont think I have to explain this any further since we're all grown ups here. The self insert argument would also be invalid imo because self inseration is (obviously) not an AVN exclusive thing.

Anyways, this whole topic is not what I wanted to initially write about =\


I wanted to bring up Strangers on paper once more since jufot mentioned the whole marriage thing again. I think I went a little too soft on this storyline because the more I think about the less thought out it comes across...

So what's the situation here, we have Amy and Brandon about to get married, yay. Well, it's not a forced marriage and it's also not some weird/complicated family interference/whatever kind of deal. With that in mind, shouldn't they be super happy right now?. Basically at the very hight of their relationship, with sunshine and rainbows everywhere?. I just found it to be odd what's presented to us here, from a logic standpoint.

On one hand we have Brandon the asshole cheater :p. Like, ok?. But why would he want to marry Amy when he's happier with someone else? Wouldn't it make more sense for him to break up with Amy?. What's his gain here, to potentially pay alimony somewhere down the road?. Or is it something else, does Amy have money?. Is Amy like a trophy for him?. But even then, none of this makes any sense at all.

And what about Amy herself?. In the game she's portrayed as being the whole package. Attractive, smart, witty, ambitious, confident and so on and so forth. What a woman, right?. She basically doesn't have any real flaws, at least none that we know about. So how come that "super Amy" wants to marry assshole Brandon in the first place, just out of convenience?. Or maybe her inner clock's already ticking and she just takes whomever?. Does Brandon has some kind of hold over her?. Or maybe Amy is completely infatuated with him so that she's unable to see what's right infront of her?. All of that doesn't sound like our super Amy , does it?.

I'm just mentioning all of those things because we don't get to see anything of it in the game. We do get to see Amy and Brandon interact only once (I think). In that scene we get a brief look at him where it gets telegraphed to the audience how dissmissive he behaves while basically being on his way out again to cheat on Amy. It just doesn't add up to me...

Again, this doesn't take place after they became married, nor does it take place while they're just in a normal boyfriend/girlfriend relationship.. Because those two type of scenarios would've been less problematic because it gives you the freedom to interpret and write about it however you want to, but not in this particular instance.

So my question would sill be, why would Brandon not break up with Amy?. Because this whole stroyline, as it stands now, feels more like some romantic fever dream by someone. Or straight up pulp fiction....
 

jufot

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2021
1,669
3,824
378
With that in mind, shouldn't they be super happy right now?. Basically at the very hight of their relationship, with sunshine and rainbows everywhere?. I just found it to be odd what's presented to us here, from a logic standpoint.
What makes you think it's the height of their relationship? They have clearly fallen far from whatever past heights, and I don't think either of them would dispute it.

But why would he want to marry Amy when he's happier with someone else? Wouldn't it make more sense for him to break up with Amy?. What's his gain here, to potentially pay alimony somewhere down the road?. Or is it something else, does Amy have money?. Is Amy like a trophy for him?. But even then, none of this makes any sense at all.
Because relationships don't work that way? Anonymous people online love to post self-righteous "just leave" comments in response to cheating stories, but real life is seldom that simple. A relationship can be too good to leave and too bad to stay in. Even if the cheater is caught, it's far from a given that their partner will want to leave or even be mad at all.

And even if Brandon has no redeemable qualities whatsoever (a massive if) and Amy suspects his extracurriculars, inertia alone is enough to stop most people from changing course.

She basically doesn't have any real flaws, at least none that we know about.
You say this, but then complain about her staying with Brandon. Wouldn't that be a massive, real flaw? :)

I'm just mentioning all of those things because we don't get to see anything of it in the game. We do get to see Amy and Brandon interact only once (I think). In that scene we get a brief look at him where it gets telegraphed to the audience how dissmissive he behaves while basically being on his way out again to cheat on Amy. It just doesn't add up to me...
Because it ultimately doesn't matter. The player's perspective is that of a third party, and clearly, all MC is interested in is to be there to catch her when she inevitably falls. It doesn't matter how or why her engagement has ended up in this state. That's in the past. It doesn't even matter how it will end, only that it will.
 
  • Thinking Face
Reactions: realjitter

TREXrg

Member
Jun 26, 2022
349
641
169
I do agree but with just one remark. AL was the sacrificial goat that DPC slaughtered to get a +50% attention bonus. I don't know how many people love the game and how many hate it, but almost everyone knew about the game and its author who pulled off such a stunt. The game was certainly talked about everywhere. So when DPC released the first episode of BaD, the initial interest was just colossal due to the previous fame. So no, it was not a bad writing, but a cold, calculated move.
Oh he certaintly did it for that reason,
and by 'Bad Writing' i meant what people feelt about it not that it's badly written
he also had BaD fast enough to ride the infame and he improved significant so BaD looked better animations/renders all around
so it's a stunt not many could pull of and a generaly still have the feeling he may does something akin to that because it is what he sees as 'ART'
 
  • Like
Reactions: yossa999

realjitter

Member
Jun 21, 2021
319
400
187
What makes you think it's the height of their relationship? They have clearly fallen far from whatever past heights, and I don't think either of them would dispute it.
Still that sounds a little too convienent to me. So the situation is just simply that they both reluctantly crawl towards a marriage they both don't want?. Again, it's 1 month before their wedding. They should be in the middle of their wedding preperatios with family gathereings and all the million things that play into such an event... It's just, for my tastes a bit too simple to just give us Brandon the cheater in this scenario. I wouldn't even think about and I also would agree with everything you wrote if it weren't for those specific circumstances, is all.

I am aware about that the focal point of this story is not Amy + Brandon, it's of course MC + Amy/Becca. I just think this whole getting married thing is a too big of a burden for that storyline. It's like a rom/com storyline to me without the com.
 
Last edited:

jufot

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2021
1,669
3,824
378
for my tastes a bit too simple to just give us Brandon the cheater in this scenario.
I agree that "Brandon the cheater" is the weakest point of the game. I just don't think the specifics of it really matter.
 

jufot

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2021
1,669
3,824
378
Imagine if the scenario would be different, with Amy being happily married to Brandon until she meets the MC... Oh the controversy..
It would have been infinitely better, but AVN audiences treasure their hugboxes and are utterly terrified of emotional discomfort or conflict. It would never fly, unfortunately.
 
  • Sad
Reactions: realjitter

forthewins

Member
Feb 5, 2021
213
426
163
Jufot, man, this is really an unfair comment.

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
Hey, man. I haven't played all of your game, but I did play a good chunk of it and plan on catching up.

I just want to say I see you're taking this feedback hard. Hang in there.

No good art has ever come from trying to give people what they want. Make the game you want to make.

And if it matters, honestly, this discussion is just making me want to get back to your game. So for everyone you may turn off by having a twist that people weren't expecting and didn't "want", you may be attracting others to your game to see what the fuss is all about, and those that aren't as bothered by those kinds of twists.

I think Dr. Pinkcake is doing okay after all that backlash from the fire, last I heard.

edit: fixing messy quotes
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Impious Monk

forthewins

Member
Feb 5, 2021
213
426
163
So when DPC released the first episode of BaD, the initial interest was just colossal due to the previous fame. So no, it was not a bad writing, but a cold, calculated move.
I actually think it was neither. It was a writer with a vision, that didn't really care what affect it had on the audience. He was going to follow through with his plan no matter what.

I do kind of doubt he'll have the balls to again go with such a tragic and shocking ending with BaD though, given how much money he's making nowadays. But it did have a huge warning at the beginning of the game that things may happen that will be unpleasant, etc. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: yossa999

yossa999

Engaged Member
Dec 5, 2020
3,616
24,158
669
Wow bro, I was just asking for directions to the nearest grocery store, no need to get that worked up. :KEK: :KEK: :KEK:

Okay, sorry for the dumb joke, but I'll try to jump on the bandwagon of your train of thought.

I don't get, if anything it got me more hyped about AVN's going forward since AL was also the first AVN i've read. Dramatic events are present in every media everywhere. Even freaking Hallmark movies do have them (I assume, maybe not :p). So what is this here, the hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil club?
Let me point out that you may be talking to someone who is not a native English speaker, and who is not even trying to think in English, but is mechanically translating common words and idioms from his native language.

Now about the stunt, one of the definitions of this word is from the Google's English dictionary which they claim is provided by Oxford Languages: "something unusual done to attract attention."

To me it sounds like a perfect definition of what DPC did with Maya and Josy Missy and Megan in AL. I mean, dramatic events are not taboo in AVNs, but something as shocking as the sudden death of one of the main love interest does not strike me as a very common plot device. Especially when the author makes you responsible for the choice who's going to die. In fact, very few AVN writers would dare to do it, a happy ending is the standard and trusted expectation of most players.
Was the fire situation and the death choice unexpected? I think it totally was. Did he attract a lot of attention, even if it was negative? I guess he did. So, a stunt.
Same goes for when people bring up "escapism". Like, what are they even talking about?.
About a magic dick and a harem I guess :KEK:

Something like: "I don't want problems and complications in relationships with the opposite sex in the game like it happens in my real life. I want to be a pumped-up Jason Momoa MC, like in WiAB (while lying on the couch, munching on chips and never going to the gym) so that all the guys respect me, and all the girls are getting wet just from my appearance. And I want to sleep with all the girls at once and so that they don't get jealous, not like in the real life, where for cheating on my wife I will get a divorce, alimony and a reputation."
Escapism? Escapism!

I wanted to bring up Strangers on paper once more since jufot mentioned the whole marriage thing again. I think I went a little too soft on this storyline because the more I think about the less thought out it comes across...
Oh man, I bought it on Steam cause the devs are very talented and I wanted to support them, but do I like the game after the last chapter? I'm not sure.

So what's the situation here, we have Amy and Brandon about to get married, yay. Well, it's not a forced marriage and it's also not some weird/complicated family interference/whatever kind of deal. With that in mind, shouldn't they be super happy right now?. Basically at the very hight of their relationship, with sunshine and rainbows everywhere?. I just found it to be odd what's presented to us here, from a logic standpoint.

On one hand we have Brandon the asshole cheater :p. Like, ok?. But why would he want to marry Amy when he's happier with someone else? Wouldn't it make more sense for him to break up with Amy?. What's his gain here, to potentially pay alimony somewhere down the road?. Or is it something else, does Amy have money?. Is Amy like a trophy for him?. But even then, none of this makes any sense at all.
Are you really looking for a logical reason why a girl chooses a certain guy and stays loyal to him even though he's a jerk?

Maybe he has a chin and nose shape similar to her father and she feels cozy and protected around him. Maybe he uses the same perfume as her first love, with whom she lost her virginity. Maybe when she was a child, her parents took her to a football game and her mother told her that when she grew up, she would marry a quarterback, while buying her ice cream. And now she associates pleasure exclusively with quarterbacks.

Obviously, I'm exaggerating, but sometimes the reasons are exactly like that and there is no logic to them.

You said it yourself, she's super-Amy, she's a top cheerleader, smart, witty and sexy. She's faithful to him and puts a blind eye on his little sins. All the guys envy him when he tells over a beer how he had his way with her last night and in what positions and how she moaned... And most importantly, it seems she's his maximum level (I know how that sounds, but if we accept that he only sees her as a trophy), apparently he's too small and unimportant for the heiress from a rich family.
And what about Amy herself?. In the game she's portrayed as being the whole package. Attractive, smart, witty, ambitious, confident and so on and so forth. What a woman, right?. She basically doesn't have any real flaws, at least none that we know about. So how come that "super Amy" wants to marry assshole Brandon in the first place, just out of convenience?. Or maybe her inner clock's already ticking and she just takes whomever?. Does Brandon has some kind of hold over her?. Or maybe Amy is completely infatuated with him so that she's unable to see what's right infront of her?. All of that doesn't sound like our super Amy , does it?.
Sounds like a thousand similar characters from those romantic melodramas, where she's going to marry a guy who might not even be a bad guy, but who can't stimulate her G-spot the way MC did. But at the last moment (fucking the viewer's brain for 1h 45m), she realizes that the MC is the one she's really loved her whole life, and runs away from the altar into the sunset with MC. Yuck.

So I guess she'll end up breaking up with her fiancé. Or maybe marry him and meet the MC after a decade gap and admit how wrong she was. Then again, a thousand similar endings from pop movies.
So my question would sill be, why would Brandon not break up with Amy?
She is obedient, comfortable, has great tits and very skillful at blowjobs.
 

NebulousShooter

Forum Fanatic
Donor
Oct 24, 2018
4,666
31,865
647
Same goes for when people bring up "escapism". Like, what are they even talking about?. First of all escapism is a vastly exaggerated word in my opinion, entertainment would be more accurate. And when I bring up entertainment, well, I dont think I have to explain this any further since we're all grown ups here. The self insert argument would also be invalid imo because self inseration is (obviously) not an AVN exclusive thing.
Its not an AVN exclusive thing, but games offer the most out of all the entertainment choices in terms of interactivity and immersion, so it is the closest thing to escaping reality. Some argue that books are, since you use your imagination, but cmon, nothing is more immersive than you making choices and experiencing the consequences of those choices.

I don't get, if anything it got me more hyped about AVN's going forward since AL was also the first AVN i've read. Dramatic events are present in every media everywhere. Even freaking Hallmark movies do have them (I assume, maybe not :p). So what is this here, the hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil club?.
Some things that work in one medium, don't work as well in others, or are complete deal breakers in other cases. Kinks are the best example, someone following porn flic trends would come to the wrong conclusion on what is popular in a AVN, thats why sluts are a turn off for the majority of the playerbase, yet in regular porn people can't get enough of them, the wilder and sluttier the better.

Its the same thing with other themes, they just don't work in a AVN setting, visual novels have always been from inception at their core dating simulators. Get the girl(s) and ride off into the sunset and watch the 'ending' you unlocked. The more it deviates from that formula, the smaller the audience. Make your own case if that is a good thing, or not.

As for the rest of you comment, I didn't read it since I haven't played the LDNA yet and don't want to be even more spoiled than what can already be inferred from skimming peoples posts on the topic. :Kappa:
 

yossa999

Engaged Member
Dec 5, 2020
3,616
24,158
669
I actually think it was neither. It was a writer with a vision, that didn't really care what affect it had on the audience. He was going to follow through with his plan no matter what.

I do kind of doubt he'll have the balls to again go with such a tragic and shocking ending with BaD though, given how much money he's making nowadays. But it did have a huge warning at the beginning of the game that things may happen that will be unpleasant, etc. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
I won't argue, but even his vision then worked in the right direction and brought him the hype needed for a successful kickstart to the second game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Johnny Dough

forthewins

Member
Feb 5, 2021
213
426
163
I won't argue, but even his vision then worked in the right direction and brought him the hype needed for a successful kickstart to the second game.
For sure. I kind of hope he goes with something just as shocking if not more so with BaD, just to watch all the mayhem that ensues. :D
 
  • Yay, update!
Reactions: yossa999

jamdan

Forum Fanatic
Sep 28, 2018
4,474
24,646
750
I'm not so sure what DPC did was a "stunt" because I don't think he did it to attract attention specifically, that was just a side-effect that ended up being beneficial.

I think this was a case of "there is no way something bad isn't going to happen" so you just have to... let it happen. The ex-GF of MC, from what I recall, was nuts. So she was dangerous, and dangerous people tend to do dangerous things.

So having her literally kill off one of the LI's ended up being the most concise and straightforward way to show that danger.
Because either way, she still would've been needed to be dealt with, and that would've involved more danger and more prolonging of the game.
 

yossa999

Engaged Member
Dec 5, 2020
3,616
24,158
669
As for the rest of you comment, I didn't read it since I haven't played the LDNA yet and don't want to be even more spoiled than what can already be inferred from skimming peoples posts on the topic. :Kappa:
:WaitWhat: Haha, but he didn't say a word about LDNA, his post was mostly about Strangers on Paper
 
  • Haha
Reactions: NebulousShooter

yossa999

Engaged Member
Dec 5, 2020
3,616
24,158
669
I'm not so sure what DPC did was a "stunt" because I don't think he did it to attract attention specifically, that was just a side-effect that ended up being beneficial.

I think this was a case of "there is no way something bad isn't going to happen" so you just have to... let it happen. The ex-GF of MC, from what I recall, was nuts. So she was dangerous, and dangerous people tend to do dangerous things.

So having her literally kill off one of the LI's ended up being the most concise and straightforward way to show that danger.
Because either way, she still would've been needed to be dealt with, and that would've involved more danger and more prolonging of the game.
I think only DPC knows the truth, but I got the impression from the whole discussion about AL back then that it was intentional shock content to attract the maximum attention. I guess I need to re-read his old posts on this forum, he was pretty open back then. He couldn't just not realize that turning a dating sim into a horror game would push away many players.

I don't know what ending BAD is heading towards, I wrote in my review on the first season on Steam that I have a feeling from the game that American Pie will turn into Saw. But so far all the crises in the game are resolved very easily and harmlessly. First, suspense is created, dark music, ominous hints, Hitchcockian shots like when Patrick droves to Maya for a surprise room inspection and then "MC, why your sheets are pink?" Dude, seriously...
 

realjitter

Member
Jun 21, 2021
319
400
187
She is obedient, comfortable, has great tits and very skillful at blowjobs.
Wow, you're going pretty hard on Amy here.

I do have to disagree though because you have to look at the bigger picture here. Someone correct me, but I think this AVN will "only" have 4 chapters. With that in mind you could call it more of a short story compared to your average AVN. So you certainly have to make some decisions as a writer about what to put into your short story and what not. Like I wrote in my initial mini review, the developer already did way more than I thought she would. So the question would be if it would add anything significant to the story if you would flesh out the Amy character even more by giving her more character traits/flaws/whatever.

I personally would say no, I like her as she is, but it does depend a little be on what happens next.
 
  • Thinking Face
Reactions: yossa999
5.00 star(s) 8 Votes