Recommending Story-first games

[realjitter]

A new year, a new AVN

Strangers on paper (Full spoilers ahead)

It's a bit strange because I remember giving this one a try a while ago already and just wasn't feeling it for whatever reason. I played like 10 minutes of it and then just closed it and just let it sit there until I eventually forgot all about it... But now I gave it another shot and it turned out to be pretty amazing to be honest. Right up there, although different, with something like short sad stories in my opinion.

First of all, I was surprised about the level of detail when it comes to the writing and the characters. Not only that, also the consistency of it. Cynical me was pretty certain about how the story would unfold and what the LI's would be like after their initial introduction, but I was proven wrong.. To a point at least.

Well, the only thing i ended up predicting correctly was the reason why Amy and her future husband would (eventually) break up. That was the only, in my mind, missed opportunity where the developer could've challenged him/herself a bit more from a writing perspective. But that's just a minor thing which also doesn't really matter because the rest of it turned out to be so nicely interwoven.

I mean, sure, at first glance it does come across a bit corny. I think that was also the reason why I abandoned it back then. We have Amy, the ex cheerleader and Becca the "emo girl". We've seen those tropes plenty of times already in all kinds of media. But again, the devil lies in the detail. Or, in this case, the writing and how you handle said tropes.

Becca for example, the sexy, "mysterious" girl. Probably the more problematic of the 2 storylines. It's kinda funny because the MC sees her as being a more mature girl. I mean, as of yet, we don't have all the information about what's really going on with her. Just some vague information about her family and whatnot, but nothing definite. So I can just speculate, but to me she behaves, to a degree, more like a teenager up to this point. Either that or she has some more serious problems of some kind. Slightly traumatized?, depressive tendencies?, I don't know. I could also be wrong here and it just simply takes longer for her to open up... it's hard to tell.

It's just that she appears almost absent in some scenes, caught up in her head. Then she changes her behaviour, but shuts down again right after..... I don't know, i'd be a little bit worried I guess. Which brings me back to the teenager thing, if she would be 16 yo I wouldtn't think much of it, but she's a YA. There are quite a few scenes I could bring up here that would hint at something like that, but...maybe not.

This can also become problematic for the MC because he too is portrayed as being more of an introvert, sensible guy, which I thought was an interesting choice for the MC. It's just way harder to write that kind of guy than to write the more straight forward dude. That was actually the part I paid most attention to. Like, can I really by into him or is he just supposed to be a romance template to fit the girls?.

Besides that, I did like the "cliffhanger" of chapter 2. For most people I imagine this was a big yawn/whatever, but I thought it was an interesting and unexpected choice with the break up of his parents. We do know that the MC is on good terms with his mother and we also know that he's ok with his father based the phone call they had. So you can't just go with the "He was an asshole anyways and i'm glad that he's finally gone" storyline. This should have some, most likely negative, impact on him going forward.

As for Amy?. Well, at first glance this does seem to be the more complicated storyline of the two with her about to get married and all that.. But, as I mentioned earlier, the whole reveal about him being just a cheater took away a bit of the wind out of the sails, from my perspective. But then again, I do have to assume that the developer is not a professional writer and with that in mind he/she's doing a pretty good job here regardless.

Speaking of good job, the last thing I wanted to mention are the lewd scenes, or scene in this case. As the story went on it occured to me that going with just your standart AVN porn animation could've really hurt this AVN. Thankfuly the developer agreed with me here and didn't do that. Quite the opposite actually, we do get to learn more about Becca in that scene. And by that I don't mean that she apparently has a bit of a dominant streak going on. "Did I studder?" was probebly my favourite line of the game .

Anyway, i'm gonna stop rambling here. You really would need to see the finished product in order to talk about it properly. Anything i've mentioned above could be just way, way off.....

So overall, a pretty well crafted and fleshed out AVN and also a bit of an oddity amongst AVN's in general...

Small scale on the outside, big scale on the inside

 

[jufot]

But, as I mentioned earlier, the whole reveal about him being just a cheater took away a bit of the wind out of the sails, from my perscpective

It is my only real complaint about the story so far. It would have been far more interesting if the fiancé was just boring and uninteresting. Making him a cheater gives Amy an easy, socially acceptable out. There is no real conflict to it. Leaving a good guy just because he is bland would be a proper challenge, and maybe even a moral dilemma.

But then again, I do have to assume that the developer is not a professional writer and with that in mind he/she's doing a pretty good job here regardless.

She (the writer is a woman) said on Patreon that she has some published short stories out there, but when asked, she wasn't willing to share them as there is no way to do it anonymously.

Speaking of good job, the last thing I wanted to mention are the lewd scenes, or scene in this case.

It is the absolute gold standard for AVN sex scenes. It's unique enough to have a sex scene from the female perspective, but everything about it - the writing, composition, score, lighting - is all leagues ahead of the competition.

 

[realjitter]

She (the writer is a woman) said on Patreon that she has some published short stories out there, but when asked, she wasn't willing to share them as there is no way to do it anonymously.

Autsch, that makes the things I wrote sound like a bit of an insult . But yeah, I can see that. I mean. there's quite a lot of dialogue which has a double meaning + the overall attention to detail.. Again, it's pretty good.

 

[Johnny Dough]

Not sure if you'll be playing LDNA and if you want spoilers, so I'll put this under the spoiler section.

Spoiler: Disclaimer: DO NOT OPEN if you have not played LDNA, intend to play it, and do not want major spoilers.

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I've been thinking about this incest thing lately because every time I see an incest-tagged game I cringe and think, "Oh, no! Another incest game in 2025!" (Or earlier because I already started to feel like this sometime between 2023 and 2024.) I'm not a moralist, so this is not the issue. When I started playing AVNs, I approached the incest genre with an open mind. There are some of these games I like because they integrate the theme into their plots and make something good out of it (usually, something funny). There are also others that could do without it but have nice stories, so I like them despite the incest. Nowadays, however, I only see repetitions of the same themes, nothing new on the table, and a series of clichés that only serve as fanservice.

About your post, specifically, I think those things work in the non-AVN world (see, for instance, the amazing movie Oldboy, and, way earlier, the classic Oedipus Rex). In the AVN universe, however, I think most people play/read those games/stories to have a good time and enjoy themselves (I'm not saying they are stupid... it's fair to have hobbies to relax the mind, and I believe that despite this, they or, at least, some of them may have more intellectual interests in other areas); and I'm saying this because I believe that here, in the AVN world, those who enjoy those shocking twists that could spoil their fun are probably a minority. I would like it because I like to see the world burn (figuratively, of course), but the majority would either stay because it's their kink—and, thus, not a shocking twist but a gift— or would be driven away because it's not their kink, and they've been put off by the twist.

For instance, in my previous post—which was supposed to be more of a joke than something serious—, the scene works great in a movie, but, if it was here, I don't doubt a pitchfork mob would be formed asking for the dev's head (of course, there would be those who would like it, but they would probably be playing games that tells them in advance what to expect). Thus, since those who would like those twists qua twist are not there for the sex, maybe this would work better in a non-"adult" VN (i.e., without explicit sex).

Well... These are just my impressions. Of course, it's all open to debate and, in fact, I would welcome it.

 

[jufot]

the majority would either stay because it's their kink—and, thus, not a shocking twist but a gift—

It certainly seems to be the case here. I haven't seen a single person on the Discord wonder what this revelation means, given the incessant incest discourse in earlier chapters and Rockford's own sermon at that girl's trial. On the contrary, the vast majority reacted along the lines of "hehehe, sister sex " and the dev was very much onboard with it.

 

[yossa999]

I've been thinking about this incest thing lately because every time I see an incest-tagged game I cringe and think, "Oh, no! Another incest game in 2025!" (Or earlier because I already started to feel like this sometime between 2023 and 2024.) I'm not a moralist, so this is not the issue. When I started playing AVNs, I approached the incest genre with an open mind. There are some of these games I like because they integrate the theme into their plots and make something good out of it (usually, something funny). There are also others that could do without it but have nice stories, so I like them despite the incest. Nowadays, however, I only see repetitions of the same themes, nothing new on the table, and a series of clichés that only serve as fanservice.

About your post, specifically, I think those things work in the non-AVN world (see, for instance, the amazing movie Oldboy, and, way earlier, the classic Oedipus Rex). In the AVN universe, however, I think most people play/read those games/stories to have a good time and enjoy themselves (I'm not saying they are stupid... it's fair to have hobbies to relax the mind, and I believe that despite this, they or, at least, some of them may have more intellectual interests in other areas); and I'm saying this because I believe that here, in the AVN world, those who enjoy those shocking twists that could spoil their fun are probably a minority. I would like it because I like to see the world burn (figuratively, of course), but the majority would either stay because it's their kink—and, thus, not a shocking twist but a gift— or would be driven away because it's not their kink, and they've been put off by the twist.

For instance, in my previous post—which was supposed to be more of a joke than something serious—, the scene works great in a movie, but, if it was here, I don't doubt a pitchfork mob would be formed asking for the dev's head (of course, there would be those who would like it, but they would probably be playing games that tells them in advance what to expect). Thus, since those who would like those twists qua twist are not there for the sex, maybe this would work better in a non-"adult" VN (i.e., without explicit sex).

Well... These are just my impressions. Of course, it's all open to debate and, in fact, I would welcome it.

Heh, the thing is, I don't really see the point in discussing this because I agree with almost everything.

You see, the problem is that I've always interpreted the concept of adult visual novels as something more than just porn. I thought it included all the topics that would fall under the age restrictions of mainstream media, like depression and suicidal characters, heavy drug addiction, violence, etc.

But in the latest additions to the rules, the administration clearly explained that by adult they mean sex and everything connected with it. Therefore, it is now forbidden to post games on the site that are completely devoid of sexual themes. So now, when they tell me "If you want a good story, go read a book" - I reply "okay" with the sad voice and go read the book.

But you see, the fact that most people are just looking for porn plots with their favorite fetishes in AVNs doesn't mean that games with a deep and serious plot have no right to exist. And I apologize if I sound arrogant, but I don't care about other people's preferences. Let them take care of their own needs, and I will play and discuss the games that I like.

And this thread seems to me to be a place where most of the participants share my interest in story-driven games and where I enjoy reading reviews and feedback on such a games. Besides, I'm a curious guy and I'm quite happy with a reasonable mixture of porn logic and a serious plot. I think I'm in the minority on this thread, because I get the impression that most of the regulars on this thread tend to avoid games with any hint of porn logic in the plot, they just don't like it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing or arguing with this in any way. But it seems to me that their problem with LDNA is not the twist but the incest, although imho it in no way puts LDNA on the same level as those games where the plot is based on incest and follows exclusively porn logic in order to satisfy the fans of this fetish. However, I’m repeating myself and there’s nothing to add here, we just have different opinions.

At least, it is unlikely that anyone will deny that such a twist is on par in its shocking effect to one famous fire in which a girl died.

 

[camube]

ever since the malware bullshit that has been happening (context for those who doesn't know) https://f95zone.to/threads/recent-malware-infected-games.207437/ i never download from f95zone anymore. i just use this forum for searching purposes cuz devs promotes their games here and then download directly from the devs patreon page

on itchio at the moment there's a game bundle for 70+ games that cost $8

You must be registered to see the links

i just bought them just in case off of the 70 games, there are a couple i want to try later on. I want to play sicae one day but other than that idk what games are in the bundle, lol

check it out! cuz i think some of you here are patrons

 

[realjitter]

But in the latest additions to the rules, the administration clearly explained that by adult they mean sex and everything connected with it. Therefore, it is now forbidden to post games on the site that are completely devoid of sexual themes.

Interesting, I didn't even know about this. It's also interesting that "they" chose to purge NSC games instead of. idk, maybe introducing stricter rules when it comes to underage porn?. F95 isn't exactly the Kool Kids Club when it comes to that with their super creepy loli and shota loopholes.

As for LDNA, I can't say much about it since I haven't played it since the initial release. But I do remember it being a more story focused game, or not?. So if the developer wants to tackle the incest topic in a more serious manner, by all means, go for it. I mean, there should be a big tonal shift coming up on that route. Absolutely nothing will be the same, his friends and family, his work.. Idk, there's so much going into this topic, I don't even wanna think about it . But yeah, going forward, it shouldn't be very hard to determine how serious the developer will take this storybranch.

One the flipside, "he" can do whatever he wants to of course. It's not really important if this game remains more grounded in reality or if it drifts into lala land. It's kinda whatever at the end of the day.

 

[yossa999]

Interesting, I didn't even know about this. It's also interesting that "they" chose to purge NSC games instead of. idk, maybe introducing stricter rules when it comes to underage porn?. F95 isn't exactly the Kool Kids Club when it comes to that with their super creepy loli and shota loopholes.

As for LDNA, I can't say much about it since I haven't played it since the initial release. But I do remember it being a more story focused game, or not?. So if the developer wants to tackle the incest topic in a more serious manner, by all means, go for it. I mean, there should be a big tonal shift coming up on that route. Absolutely nothing will be the same, his friends and family, his work.. Idk, there's so much going into this topic, I don't even wanna think about it . But yeah, going forward, it shouldn't be very hard to determine how serious the developer will take this storybranch.

One the flipside, "he" can do whatever he wants to of course. It's not really important if this game remains more grounded in reality or if it drifts into lala land. It's kinda whatever at the end of the day.

Yeah, I meant exactly that, the purge of NSC games.
https://f95zone.to/threads/no-sexual-content-games-missing-read-here.238104/

Damn, I apologize for spoiling this part of LDNA, but it was already discussed openly here, so I thought there was no point in bothering with spoilers. Yeah it's a story focused game with a minumum of the lewd scenes. I can only advise you to play it and then come back to this discussion, otherwise we will have to discuss the topic without specifics, and that makes no sense. I only repeat that incest there so far is akin to the fire in Acting Lessons.

 

[Impious Monk]

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Jufot, man, this is really an unfair comment.

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[jufot]

Jufot, man, this is really an unfair comment.

Hey Monk! Thanks for chiming in. I admit my reaction might have been a bit much. But please know that it's only because I've held (and continue to hold) LDNA in such high esteem. The vast majority of devs here commit much more egregious (in my opinion) errors, and they don't even register with me. I only complained because I care.

With that said, I'd like to address some of your specific points below.

if you think that I'm onboard with a mass response of, "Oh, wasn't that fun?" then I would like to clarify how I really feel.

It certainly felt like it, but I do hear you on the light-hearted, shit-talking nature of Discord and the need to blow off steam. It seems I've read you wrong here, and I apologize.

The reveal and loss of Colleen (and Emmeline, if that's the path the player is on) is supposed to be a dark, fucked up revelation.

This is the second time I've seen you mention the loss of Colleen, and for the life of me, I just don't get it. Why would the revelation mean losing Colleen? If blood is the reason Rockford cares for her, then he doesn't deserve her. If blood doesn't matter and family is what you choose (as this episode has argued so elegantly) then nothing changes about Colleen!

building as they are upon people furious with Jamie's mansion scene (a scene I really loved, and am crushed by the negative response to it)

I loved - loved - that scene, as I've mentioned in my comment here. It's a moment where they both show such exemplary character, that they both prioritize the other's well-being despite the emotional turmoil it causes them. It's a brilliant scene and you should be very proud!

No one seems interested in discussing the meaning of family, despite my trying to set this up throughout the entire story.

If it's any consolation, I'm still looking forward to the evolution of Rockford's understanding of what family is. I don't think you needed the Emmeline twist for that, but the previous three chapters have earned you a lot of leeway in my book, so I'm looking forward to seeing how you deal with it.

Like I told you on Discord, I'm really disappointed to hear you or anyone else call this a "cheap twist," because it shows me that I've completely failed in what I was trying to do.

As much as I don't like to disappoint you as a big fan and supporter of LDNA, I'm afraid it still feels cheap to me and a big part of that is not the revelation, but how you chose to present it. You placed it immediately after a sex scene where lack of protection, children, and pregnancy were deliberately highlighted. It was a sex scene meant for titillation, which invited a lot of the sneering "sister sex" commentary on Discord. If your goal was to highlight Rockford's emotional devastation on receiving said news and encourage discussion on that, you shouldn't have had the sex scene. He could have just talked to Aghavni at the office.

Anyway, I do apologize again if I seemed a bit too harsh, but hopefully this clarifies my opinions a bit.

EDIT: On a lighter note, the dream scene with Vega has put a huuge smile on my face. At first I felt a bit mad, like why would Vega apologize when she hasn't done anything wrong, but then you took it to a wonderful place that I couldn't see coming. Well done

 

[Impious Monk]

Sorry, one more thing I want to comment here, not really a continuation of my previous post but:

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[jufot]

some members have previously expressed an interest in seeing more AVNs where the devs are willing to kill off an LI

I've meant literally

For a player who loved Emmeline and cannot, will not ever go down an incest path, she's just been removed from the board. I hope this thread will see some value in that.

I see the value in that, certainly. It's just not a big loss to me, as her vision of white picket fence / lots of little spawn just doesn't appeal. I'd love to hear from the Emmeline fans who fit your description, though.

 

[yossa999]

I'd love to hear from the Emmeline fans who fit your description, though.

Emmeline fan (former?) reporting in. My first reaction was

Okay. My first playthrough is Emmeline. Fuck this game.

I was saying from Chapter 2, if you're choosing the options that shape Rockford as a guy who's tired of being alone and locked in a room with his phobias, then Emmeline is the best choice. She's not as pretty as the other girls, but she's very cute, adorable even when she's clumsy, and embodies family. So yeah, it was a low blow for a dating sim, Monk! But this story isn't a dating sim, right?

If blood is the reason Rockford cares for her, then he doesn't deserve her. If blood doesn't matter and family is what you choose (as this episode has argued so elegantly) then nothing changes about Colleen!

The essense of the yearly discussion in the Where it All Began thread. You probably would be surprised how many people think that blood means everything.

 

[jufot]

You probably would be surprised how many people think that blood means everything.

Not at all, sadly. I have very low opinions of a lot of people

 

[Drankz]

Hi Impious Monk

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[Impious Monk]

Hey Monk! Thanks for chiming in. I admit my reaction might have been a bit much. But please know that it's only because I've held (and continue to hold) LDNA in such high esteem. The vast majority of devs here commit much more egregious (in my opinion) errors, and they don't even register with me. I only complained because I care.

With that said, I'd like to address some of your specific points below.


It certainly felt like it, but I do hear you on the light-hearted, shit-talking nature of Discord and the need to blow off steam. It seems I've read you wrong here, and I apologize.


This is the second time I've seen you mention the loss of Colleen, and for the life of me, I just don't get it. Why would the revelation mean losing Colleen? If blood is the reason Rockford cares for her, then he doesn't deserve her. If blood doesn't matter and family is what you choose (as this episode has argued so elegantly) then nothing changes about Colleen!


I loved - loved - that scene, as I've mentioned in my comment here. It's a moment where they both show such exemplary character, that they both prioritize the other's well-being despite the emotional turmoil it causes them. It's a brilliant scene and you should be very proud!


If it's any consolation, I'm still looking forward to the evolution of Rockford's understanding of what family is. I don't think you needed the Emmeline twist for that, but the previous three chapters have earned you a lot of leeway in my book, so I'm looking forward to seeing how you deal with it.


As much as I don't like to disappoint you as a big fan and supporter of LDNA, I'm afraid it still feels cheap to me and a big part of that is not the revelation, but how you chose to present it. You placed it immediately after a sex scene where lack of protection, children, and pregnancy were deliberately highlighted. It was a sex scene meant for titillation, which invited a lot of the sneering "sister sex" commentary on Discord. If your goal was to highlight Rockford's emotional devastation on receiving said news and encourage discussion on that, you shouldn't have had the sex scene. He could have just talked to Aghavni at the office.

Anyway, I do apologize again if I seemed a bit too harsh, but hopefully this clarifies my opinions a bit.

EDIT: On a lighter note, the dream scene with Vega has put a huuge smile on my face. At first I felt a bit mad, like why would Vega apologize when she hasn't done anything wrong, but then you took it to a wonderful place that I couldn't see coming. Well done

I really do apologize man, my earlier comment was more of a response to the entire internet than to you, and that's not fair at all to you. Just been a week.

I've tried to avoid spending commenting in this thread lately because I know I can get defensive and I really do think threads like this are important for fans/players to be able to freely express themselves without worrying about offending some insecure dev on the other side of the internet. And even though it can be painful reading harsh commentary from people I respect, I would much, much rather hear the unvarnished truth than just get smoke blown up my ass.

Screenwriter Paul Guyot says the difference between an amateur writer and a professional writer getting feedback is that the amateur only wants to hear what's great about his work, while the professional only wants to hear how he can improve. This is my first time writing anything so I'm without question a horrible amateur, but I aspire to be better.

I appreciate you, brother.

 

[camube]

i see a lot of posts with spoilers here and the word incest. i haven't had time to read Leaving DNA. probably wont have a time for a month
damn im gonna leave this thread for a while so i can enjoy the game when i get around to read it

 

[jufot]

I really do apologize man, my earlier comment was more of a response to the entire internet than to you, and that's not fair at all to you.

No apology necessary, mate. Keep in mind that I'm just some anonymous guy on the Internet running his mouth. I can't imagine the stress you've been under, and it would behove us all (me especially) to phrase any criticism constructively.

This is my first time writing anything so I'm without question a horrible amateur, but I aspire to be better.

You've said this before long ago, and I'm sorry, but I still don't believe it. Nobody writes this good on their first try

 

[Tlaero]

Imagine the following scenario. You're inexperienced in sexual affairs and very, very nervous. You work up the nerve take your clothes off in front of someone else for the first time ... and they snicker.

Writers do the same thing, only rather than baring their bodies, they bare their souls. The snickers hit hard.

Impious Monk, I'm sorry for what you're going through. I can't promise that it gets better, but I can say that I appreciate your bravery in putting yourself out there like you did. Hang in there.

Tlaero