Recommending Story-first games

[desmosome]

noping123

Playing your game now. I saw it on latest updates and remember seeing your posts here. About half way in, but I am loving it! Pretty light on an overarching plot, but I can see that it's more of a character driven thing. The dialogue writing is superb! The conversations sound so real. Dialogues like that are pretty rare for AVNs. We see different speech patterns and conversation dynamics for different pairings. The subject of the conversations and how it flows are realistic. There are some subtle humor in there too which I like.

The other thing I like to play around with is the seemingly huge amounts of variations based on your choices and relationship status. In some ways, this resembles Intertwined, but executed with more complexity. I like to live dangerously, so I'm pursuing everyone as far as it can go, but I hope it doesn't totally blow up too soon lol.

Since I always go for the most fucked up relationships, I'm hoping for some secret relationship with Stacey... lol. I believe I'm about half way through, so maybe I'll find out.

 

[noping123]

noping123

Playing your game now. I saw it on latest updates and remember seeing your posts here. About half way in, but I am loving it! Pretty light on an overarching plot, but I can see that it's more of a character driven thing. The dialogue writing is superb! The conversations sound so real. Dialogues like that are pretty rare for AVNs. We see different speech patterns and conversation dynamics for different pairings. The subject of the conversations and how it flows are realistic. There are some subtle humor in there too which I like.

The other thing I like to play around with is the seemingly huge amounts of variations based on your choices and relationship status. In some ways, this resembles Intertwined, but executed with more complexity. I like to live dangerously, so I'm pursuing everyone as far as it can go, but I hope it doesn't totally blow up too soon lol.

Since I always go for the most fucked up relationships, I'm hoping for some secret relationship with Stacey... lol. I believe I'm about half way through, so maybe I'll find out.

Wow I'm uh. not going to comment too much here lol. I'll just say - for the current version of the game, the point where you MEET stacey for the first time, is just about the halfway point? Maybe slightly before? The end of the current version is just shy of the overall halfway point for the game. The actual halfway point comes during the next release.

The game is (unfortunately for me) going to become more varied over time, with the script I have written for the next release, there's a LOT of differences here and there - and the next release after that, well fuck me its going to be a development nightmare. Still I have things mostly mapped out so that helps a lot.

Also, you want to *REALLY* live dangerously? Break Mary's heart in Ch4. (The start of Ch4 is a meeting with nikki and erin at fridas. That's the first major scene of Ch4 anyway). Now *THAT* would be living dangerously.

 

[desmosome]

Wow I'm uh. not going to comment too much here lol. I'll just say - for the current version of the game, the point where you MEET stacey for the first time, is just about the halfway point? Maybe slightly before? The end of the current version is just shy of the overall halfway point for the game. The actual halfway point comes during the next release.

The game is (unfortunately for me) going to become more varied over time, with the script I have written for the next release, there's a LOT of differences here and there - and the next release after that, well fuck me its going to be a development nightmare. Still I have things mostly mapped out so that helps a lot.

Also, you want to *REALLY* live dangerously? Break Mary's heart in Ch4. (The start of Ch4 is a meeting with nikki and erin at fridas. That's the first major scene of Ch4 anyway). Now *THAT* would be living dangerously.

Hmmm, I downlaoded the 0.4 on the game thread OP, but it ended at chapter 3. Any ideas?

 

[noping123]

Hmmm, I downlaoded the 0.4 on the game thread OP, but it ended at chapter 3. Any ideas?

None. I didn't leak it, someone else did, but I checked the files (didnt download but the size is correct for v4. v3 is about 900mb, v4 is 1.2gb). The end of Ch3 is....

Ch3 ends in the club. You meet the girls there, they leave, you have a real quick scene with Javi, then Ch3 ends.

If you got past that point, you got to Ch4. If not, I have nfc.

 

[desmosome]

None. I didn't leak it, someone else did, but I checked the files (didnt download but the size is correct for v4. v3 is about 900mb, v4 is 1.2gb). The end of Ch3 is....

Ch3 ends in the club. You meet the girls there, they leave, you have a real quick scene with Javi, then Ch3 ends.

If you got past that point, you got to Ch4. If not, I have nfc.

yea it just ends after talking with Javi and the game prompts you to save. Hmmm...

 

[desmosome]

None. I didn't leak it, someone else did, but I checked the files (didnt download but the size is correct for v4. v3 is about 900mb, v4 is 1.2gb). The end of Ch3 is....

Ch3 ends in the club. You meet the girls there, they leave, you have a real quick scene with Javi, then Ch3 ends.

If you got past that point, you got to Ch4. If not, I have nfc.

Oh wait, I did download that fixed script file I saw on the last page of the game thread. Maybe that was a chapter 3 script file?

 

[noping123]

Oh wait, I did download that fixed script file I saw on the past page of the game thread. Maybe that was a chapter 3 script file?

That'd be it, lol. That script fixed a bug in Ch3, so I posted it, but it's depreciated for V4 since the fix is included in the v4 release. I edited that post to remove it since it's not needed anymore.

 

[Jaike]

Did someone say telenovela? That reminds me of Masq, an old adult adventure game that I played when I was absolutely way too young for it. It was like a fast-paced noir soap opera about a fashion business, with a POV perspective and a lot of nudity and killing. The images were MS Paint level but it was on the higher end of Paint graphics. I don't remember many story details, but there was a part where the MC strangled a guy at a bank, a point where the MC would break in somewhere with a friend, a hostage situation at a school, a segment in jail and a trailer where some obese guy threatened a woman and the MC could kill him and also shoot a snake. The screenshots

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kind of support most of that. It was pretty easy to get killed.

Unfortunately you had to be online to play it and the server doesn't work anymore. There are download links

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and

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but you can't start a game. The

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when Bush was still in the White House, so... To add to the telenovela vibe, one of those versions is only in Spanish. Probably would've been too soapy for this thread though.

 

[realjitter]

a lot of nudity and killing

Say no more, i'm interested

 

[jufot]

The images were MS Paint level but it was on the higher end of Paint graphics.

I don't know about that, the higher end of MS Paint is... well,

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[Jaike]

I don't know about that, the higher end of MS Paint is... well,

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Wow, that's really impressive, but not very practical for an adult game. Let's say an artist works full-time on that, for one picture a week. With five weeks of vacation in a year that's about 45 images. With a two-year development period, that's a game with 90 still images and only a portion of that is naked images.... of Santa Claus.

But if your video shows the top percentile of MS Paint graphics, the game has, let's say, the top quintile in image quality. It's just how narrowly you define "the higher end".

Spoiler: But Masq also had its share of naked unsexy men

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[jufot]

With a two-year development period, that's a game with 90 still images and only a portion of that is naked images.... of Santa Claus.

Damn you, now I'm imagining a Santa Claus porn game and it's all your fault Someone go and make that please!

with a side of NTR vibes

More like rapey vibes :/

 

[HogRocket]

I'm glad I stumbled onto this thread. As much as I love my fuck-a-minute porn-fests - I'm happiest with a story driven......story

 

[desmosome]

Got around to playing Toro 7 as well. It's actually my first time playing a Tora Production game. Pretty interesting read overall. I liked the set up for the plot and the writing in general.

Some things that felt a little off from a story telling perspective. A lot of the dialogues about gender identity and no-sharing seemed unnatural. That is, it didn't seem like irl dialogues would really flow like that. It came off too on the nose like it was aimed directly at the player, rather than the MC. Especially the exchange about "no-sharing" before banging Stef. Personally, I'd think a lot of casual sex would be going on in a cramped station like that. Maybe even some sneaky stuff behind people's backs. The exclusive clause seems like something that would come up once people actually got seriously involved. I didn't buy that MC and Stef's relationship was at that point where she would expect a commitment from him.

I'm not saying there couldn't be a crew of this size that were totally in sync with their outlook on dating. It just seems weird to talk about things like that so early in a relationship like it's a disclaimer.

The other thing that made me go "hmmm..." was the Doc, and to a lesser expent, the director being way too suspicious lol. Story telling conversion pretty much lets us rule them out as the suspect immediately. I suppose it's possible that there is no actual murderer among the crew. It seems like unknowingly romancing a murderer wouldn't go over too well with the more... sensitive folks around the forums lol. The devs must know this as well. Another angle could be that it was self defense or justified in some way.

 

[Vasin]

Damn you, now I'm imagining a Santa Claus porn game and it's all your fault Someone go and make that please!

Don't thank me. Just have to download the game from dev's Patreon, I think version in the thread is demo. Don't actually have to be a patron. Game itself I wouldn't put in the thread, but the bonus episode has the content you requested. It still haunts me in nightmares to this day.

 

[Tlaero]

Some things that felt a little off from a story telling perspective. A lot of the dialogues about gender identity and no-sharing seemed unnatural. That is, it didn't seem like irl dialogues would really flow like that. It came off too on the nose like it was aimed directly at the player, rather than the MC.

That's fair. Most of my games are mostly story with a little bit of gameplay. One LI, defined MC, etc. In this one I'm experimenting with tilting the scale a little more to the "gameplay" side. So I've done a few things to explain to the player what they should expect. In the cases you mentioned, I was definitely talking to the player, although I tried to fit it into the story.

That said, I work with multiple gay, trans, and non-binary people, and I learned their specifics in not much longer than happened here. I completely understand that work environments like mine aren't anywhere near the norm right now, but Toro 7 takes place at least 50 years in the future.

50 years ago, the bigger controversy would have been that one of the scientists was black, but society has made some progress in that time. Part of this progress happened as a result of Science Fiction normalizing things (ie Gene Roddenberry putting a black woman on the bridge of the Starship Enterprise). It's the responsibility of Science Fiction writers to inspire the present to grow into the future.

However, we've got to do it well. I appreciate your feedback that this didn't come across as well as it could have.

Tlaero

 

[desmosome]

That's fair. Most of my games are mostly story with a little bit of gameplay. One LI, defined MC, etc. In this one I'm experimenting with tilting the scale a little more to the "gameplay" side. So I've done a few things to explain to the player what they should expect. In the cases you mentioned, I was definitely talking to the player, although I tried to fit it into the story.

That said, I work with multiple gay, trans, and non-binary people, and I learned their specifics in not much longer than happened here. I completely understand that work environments like mine aren't anywhere near the norm right now, but Toro 7 takes place at least 50 years in the future.

50 years ago, the bigger controversy would have been that one of the scientists was black, but society has made some progress in that time. Part of this progress happened as a result of Science Fiction normalizing things (ie Gene Roddenberry putting a black woman on the bridge of the Starship Enterprise). It's the responsibility of Science Fiction writers to inspire the present to grow into the future.

However, we've got to do it well. I appreciate your feedback that this didn't come across as well as it could have.

Tlaero

Oh, I wasn't trying to say that the sexual orientation conversations were too short. It was closer to the opposite, in that the gender identity talks came out too fast. I just found it unnatural that everyone is declaring their orientation right off the bat. It's basically the same idea as the point I raised about the no-sharing rules. These conversations are a little too meta gamey for me. It gave a vibe like... "Hey player, these are the LI that you can go for, and remember, no sleeping around!"

Tbh, it's not such a big deal. It's just that little bit of immersion and natural character interactions sacrificed for gameplay reasons. Personally, I would have preferred a short disclaimer at the game start which would remove the pressure to inform the player through dialogues ASAP. That would let the writer bring up such topics for character developement rather than as a means to lay out the gameplay rules.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Raife]

Also, you want to *REALLY* live dangerously? Break Mary's heart in Ch4. (The start of Ch4 is a meeting with nikki and erin at fridas. That's the first major scene of Ch4 anyway). Now *THAT* would be living dangerously.

I also enjoy _Alive_ noping, especially:

1) Your detailed character work: the LIs are distinctive, and feel compelling and credible. I like the way that you've built friendships and relationships between your NPCs, which are unrelated to the MC. Characters who have a history together, like Nikki and Erin, feel more organic and 'alive.'

2) In a related point, I love the way your characters react quite differently to each other and the MC, based on what they know (or infer) about other characters' relationships with the MC. That must be challenging for you (the dev) to track, but it gives _Alive_ a sense of realism, risk and gameplay, which is thoroughly lacking in harem-type games.

So, I'm looking forward to your next chapter a great deal -- as you say, it looks to include a bunch of highly complex scenarios.

As one of your backers, I'm a bit dismayed that you haven't attracted more support... although your numbers have ticked up a bit.

If I had to guess, it's because while your LIs are great, the overall story arc just isn't particularly gripping, yet, although Erin's evil ex is lurking. There's also a bit of a problem with the MC:
he's just not a very interesting guy... so he's not very entertaining to roleplay. He wakes up, works out, goes to clubs, watches porn... it is just a bit boring. Your LIs have much, much more noteworthy lives.

At any rate... good luck. I look forward to your next chapter.

 

[Raife]

a game with 90 still images and only a portion of that is naked images.... of Santa Claus.

Great, Jaike: now we're going to have an endless F95 debate over a possible 'Santa' tag... thanks a million.

 

[noping123]

If I had to guess, it's because while your LIs are great, the overall story arc just isn't particularly gripping, yet, although Erin's evil ex is lurking. There's also a bit of a problem with the MC:
he's just not a very interesting guy... so he's not very entertaining to roleplay. He wakes up, works out, goes to clubs, watches porn... it is just a bit boring. Your LIs have much, much more noteworthy lives.

Yea, I've always envisioned this as a full piece, and honestly wrote it as such, so I think that plays into some of the "story" bits not feeling quite there yet, since admittedly a lot of that is backloaded. The front bit is more character work, the back bit is more story.

As far as the MC goes... there's a lot of things going on here. First, you're right. His life is "boring". That's partially by design, although I definitely see the whole "Man his life is boring when he's not interacting with people" thing. That's part of the reason I've started peppering in his backstory a bit, I did a small piece of it in CH4, another will come in ch5, plus as CH5 comes he'll have more to do, so hopefully that'll be slightly addressed. Or not, who knows.

Regarding your other points: #1, it's funny. All the character backstories I had written on day 1, and how (or if) they knew each other. So far you've mostly had characters who DO have history interacting (Like erin/nikki). Ch5 brings a lot of character interactions between people who lack that history, and don't actually know each other very well, so that's been very interesting to write, and I'm looking forward to putting all of that together.

Regarding #2... It's actually not much work. The hardest bit, is the coding side of it - making sure all the variables are in the correct place, and trying to make sure things are coded properly to take you on the correct path. The writing side of it, for me, is easy. Idk why, but it is. Who knows. Probably because I'm a halfway decent writer, (but a piss poor artist!) who has a mind for those sort of details, if I had to guess.



So why don't I have much support? Honestly? I think it's because it's just not that great. I have a decent story on my hands, and it'll be better IMO once it's fully realized, and fairly good character work I think, but I think if I have to step away from myself and be objective, it's just not that good right now as a whole. I can say with honesty it's not as good as I wanted it to be when I started.

I've slowly come to this conclusion over the last week or two, and tbh, it's sort of destroyed any motivation I've had to work on the game. All the work I've gotten done, has been basically me forcing myself to do it, because the motivation just didn't exist. Add to that some pretty harsh (Not necessarily undeserved, but definitely harsh) criticism I've gotten recently, and my motivation is at an all time low. A big part of me says "Not many people like this, and even less like it enough to support it, so why waste your time", and that has become increasingly difficult to fight against.

I'm still absolutely fucking determined to finish this, but it'll probably delay the release by a week or two while I fight to get myself motivated again. Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for reassurances or anything, just randomly kvetching mostly, eventually I'll fight through and find myself in a spot where I'm motivated again, but for now I'll just have to find a way to deal with the honest realization that, what I've produced, is not as good as what I originally envisioned. I think what I'll need to do first is take some time and figure out where that disconnect occured - then I'll probably be able to get into a spot where I'll be excited to work again.