VN Ren'Py Stray Incubus [S2 Ch.1a] [Flynn974]

[shitass1001]

Well i was talking about the face eater thing, they learned it the same day, and then they all just ignore/forgot it???

didnt it say that weeks have passed? when I was in school sometimes I couldnt remember what I learned about the period before the one I was in, let alone 2-3 weeks prior

 

[MatureWLover]

Well i was talking about the face eater thing, they learned it the same day, and then they all just ignore/forgot it???

They didn't/couldn't know that they were in an illusion. They thought 3 weeks had passed. So thats probably a big factor on why they forgot.

 

[packor]

that's the problem. They THOUGHT that weeks have elapsed, but it didn't, so actually they should have retained that information since they Did, in fact, just have a lesson on it. It's not like they were imprinted with several weeks of experiences to muddle that up at all.

 

[ChaosStar0]

that's the problem. They THOUGHT that weeks have elapsed, but it didn't, so actually they should have retained that information since they Did, in fact, just have a lesson on it. It's not like they were imprinted with several weeks of experiences to muddle that up at all.

They were. That's how they thought weeks had passed.

 

[Coaxmetal]

Whatever the case is with the training illusions, it’s still not the best choice writing wise to make the player aware of something the characters don’t recall.

If you wrote a murder mystery and showed the murderer to the reader - the detective would easily appear incompetent.

In this case I hand-waived the entire thing since earlier it was shown the illusion magic could affect the characters’ memories and the event was short - not a long mystery novel.

Still, the shapeshifter stuff could’ve been told way earlier in class to give the players a chance to forget.

 

[packor]

They were. That's how they thought weeks had passed.

Negative. It was actually explained in the game after the first illusion mission.

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[DarkBlade12345]

Whatever the case is with the training illusions, it’s still not the best choice writing wise to make the player aware of something the characters don’t recall.

If you wrote a murder mystery and showed the murderer to the reader - the detective would easily appear incompetent.

In this case I hand-waived the entire thing since earlier it was shown the illusion magic could affect the characters’ memories and the event was short - not a long mystery novel.

Still, the shapeshifter stuff could’ve been told way earlier in class to give the players a chance to forget.

I don't think it's supposed to be immediately obvious that it's an illusion. When I was playing it for the first time, I just assumed that there was an actual timeskip and that this was the actual mission, since the illusion followed the same narrative. It only really became obvious to me after the first death, that it was an illusion.

 

[Flynn974]

Well i was talking about the face eater thing, they learned it the same day, and then they all just ignore/forgot it???

Ehhh... The whole idea is like being in a dream, when you're in there, you almost never ask yourself how you got there and how the succession of events went leading to you being in this situation, that's how illusions work, and that's why no one could tell that several days hadn't really passed in the first illusion and that it was actually the very same day a few hours later.

 

[Coaxmetal]

I don't think it's supposed to be immediately obvious that it's an illusion. When I was playing it for the first time, I just assumed that there was an actual timeskip and that this was the actual mission, since the illusion followed the same narrative. It only really became obvious to me after the first death, that it was an illusion.

Not my point at all. Illusion or reality, we were told about face eaters in class and suddenly we jump to the mission (or training as it turned out) and somebody got their face et and the characters didn’t know what we knew.

Hence the dude I was responding to thought that they were stupid.

 

[DarkBlade12345]

Not my point at all. Illusion or reality, we were told about face eaters in class and suddenly we jump to the mission (or training as it turned out) and somebody got their face et and the characters didn’t know what we knew.

Hence the dude I was responding to thought that they were stupid.

I'm probably misremembering since it's been a long time since I played that part, but don't they eventually remember or figure out that they're face eaters? I vaguely remember the characters questioning each other to make sure that they're real.

 

[_SomeOneElse_]

Ehhh... The whole idea is like being in a dream, when you're in there, you almost never ask yourself how you got there and how the succession of events went leading to you being in this situation, that's how illusions work, and that's why no one could tell that several days hadn't really passed in the first illusion and that it was actually the very same day a few hours later.

That's why the MC should learn about spinning the top to make sure he is not in a Nth-layer of a shared dream - probably a topic for a higher belt ninja ...

 

[Alandir]

I'm probably misremembering since it's been a long time since I played that part, but don't they eventually remember or figure out that they're face eaters? I vaguely remember the characters questioning each other to make sure that they're real.

Not really. While you are away, Candy and Torr get attacked by one of them, candy gets away and when you find her, questions you whether you are really Zycris. But that's it. They don't mention face-eaters. Candy doesn't even question Tamara, who is with you, after she established that you are the real one. And Tamara turns out to be one of the face-eaters.
I think it's generally one of the better done segments. If you pay attention you can notice as the player the exact time that each characters gets face-eaten, because the turned character each have one feature that's wrong in their face.
But it does seem weird how noone figured out that there's face-eaters around when it's so obvious and these characters are usually smarter than this.

 

[packor]

I'm probably misremembering since it's been a long time since I played that part, but don't they eventually remember or figure out that they're face eaters? I vaguely remember the characters questioning each other to make sure that they're real.

that was the first mission, not that one.

 

[Coaxmetal]

I'm probably misremembering since it's been a long time since I played that part, but don't they eventually remember or figure out that they're face eaters? I vaguely remember the characters questioning each other to make sure that they're real.

They do. That’s why it didn’t bother me.

 

[HugeBeef]

Ehhh... The whole idea is like being in a dream, when you're in there, you almost never ask yourself how you got there and how the succession of events went leading to you being in this situation, that's how illusions work, and that's why no one could tell that several days hadn't really passed in the first illusion and that it was actually the very same day a few hours later.

Thank you for the Reply, but why do they not remember things once they see it in there? Like i learned something many years ago and when i see something that looks like the thing i learned, it suddenly pops into my head, i probably could replay the game and find stuff they remember once they go into an illusion that they should have forgotten, but okay, as Coaxmetal said maybe you should mention these things to us earlier so WE have a chance to forget and not just sit there and wait for them to remember

Edit: What i meant is, for example if i played a game on this site a couple YEARS ago and now i download it thinking i never played this game, yes the first couple minutes i think this shit is new, but then one scene that was stuck in my head pops up and suddenly i know the whole fucking game XD

 

[AggressiveCheeto]

Thank you for the Reply, but why do they not remember things once they see it in there? Like i learned something many years ago and when i see something that looks like the thing i learned, it suddenly pops into my head, i probably could replay the game and find stuff they remember once they go into an illusion that they should have forgotten, but okay, as Coaxmetal said maybe you should mention these things to us earlier so WE have a chance to forget and not just sit there and wait for them to remember

Edit: What i meant is, for example if i played a game on this site a couple YEARS ago and now i download it thinking i never played this game, yes the first couple minutes i think this shit is new, but then one scene that was stuck in my head pops up and suddenly i know the whole fucking game XD

Unless the player hasn't played in months or something like that, it would take a stupid amount of filler to make them forget about that lesson. The illusions are explicitly meant to scramble the sense of time to test lesson retention and improvement in hard situations, lore wise it all makes perfect sense. From a writing perspective, I find it significantly more engaging to try to catch where things go wrong knowing what's coming due to the horror elements whereas not knowing what to expect would just create some confusion and make the payoff significantly unrewarding if the lesson is revealed in some flashback after the fact or something.

 

[HugeBeef]

Unless the player hasn't played in months or something like that, it would take a stupid amount of filler to make them forget about that lesson. The illusions are explicitly meant to scramble the sense of time to test lesson retention and improvement in hard situations, lore wise it all makes perfect sense. From a writing perspective, I find it significantly more engaging to try to catch where things go wrong knowing what's coming due to the horror elements whereas not knowing what to expect would just create some confusion and make the payoff significantly unrewarding if the lesson is revealed in some flashback after the fact or something.

???? I guess everyone has their opinion, but for me finding out stuff by myself is better than getting in spoonfed, "From a writing perspective, I find it significantly more engaging to try to catch where things go wrong knowing what's coming due to the horror elements whereas not knowing what to expect would just create some confusion and make the payoff significantly unrewarding" yeah right, "catch where things go wrong" how is it horror if you know whats gonna happen? thats just lazy tbh


Edit: Okay i just replayed the scene and your whole points fall apart, if its meant to test information retention then how do they even know the mission? How do they know Tamara and MC are the Leaders? It just makes less and less sense if you dig too deep. In the beginning, we learn they use illusions to put stuff into peoples head, so whats the point of them removing it from their minds if this is a test of information retention?

 

[packor]

I don't know wat people are talking about anymore. It would have been better while it was left at "they're just stupid", because they really haven't been that bright since the start of the story, and that was fine, because not every character in every story has to be a brainiac. I REALLLY don't want to start digging into writing mistakes, inconsistencies, etc. it will ruin the experience.

 

[HugeBeef]

I don't know wat people are talking about anymore. It would have been better while it was left at "they're just stupid", because they really haven't been that bright since the start of the story, and that was fine, because not every character in every story has to be a brainiac. I REALLLY don't want to start digging into writing mistakes, inconsistencies, etc. it will ruin the experience.

same but that guy rubbed me the wrong way XD yeah i actually like the game and didnt even mind them being stupid before or after this scene.... but that scene just made them look kinda brainless ahahaha

 

[hoshimota]

With a lot of VNs, what happens is they shuffle things around in the development process, and one or two scenes wind up not making as much sense. I think that is honestly what happened here.