Unreal Engine Completed Subverse [v1.0] [Studio Fow]

[NBV]

I absolutely hate the "game with porn, not a porn game" argument. Stop pretending StudioFow didn't advertise it as a smut focused adventure game initially, contently emphasized it's porn aspects through it's initial funding phase, set the majority of it's goal tiers for additional porn content, or constantly put its porn and waifus at the forefront of nearly every random tweet they make. They aren't continuously tweeting lewd pics of their girls because they know people care about it's boring ship phases.

How much are they paying you to brick wall every form of criticism in this thread. It's literally been just you and the other guy jumping on everyone's case over any form of criticism, even the most minor kind. You two even stopped trying to form legitimate responses to people's replies over a hundred pages ago, and now you just formulate the same template responses, as if you're some kind of PR staff. Last time I checked, the moment someone says "well, why don't you try to do it" against any form of movie or video game critic counts as something people should automatically disregard as a worthless argument. ...and this isn't the first time you've done this, nor is it the first time someone has had to point out how stupid of an argument that is. You guys are on repeat like goddamn robots.

 

[WSmith]

Pssst, guys, all of you, you are repeating yourself and others. It's done, no one is going to change their mind on this. Let's just wait for the update to drop, and discuss it when it gets here

 

[NBV]

Pssst, guys, all of you, you are repeating yourself and others. It's done, no one is going to change their mind on this. Let's just wait for the update to drop, and discuss it when it gets here

Well, it just gets tiring trying to read through the threads and seeing the same two guys constantly try to shut down people. You're right, a lot of us may not change our opinions, but people joining these threads should at least be able to have them. They won't allow anyone to move on and talk about the game, unless it's strictly to praise it. The fact of the matter is, not everyone is going to give Fow an endless amount of praise and leeway like they are, and they need to accept it.

 

[WSmith]

Well, it just gets tiring trying to read through the threads and seeing the same two guys constantly try to shut down people. You're right, a lot of us may not change our opinions, but people joining these threads should at least be able to have them. They won't allow anyone to move on and talk about the game, unless it's strictly to praise it. The fact of the matter is, not everyone is going to give Fow an endless amount of praise and leeway like they are, and they need to accept it.

Sure, and I completely agree! But I would also say that if an argument is had for at least a couple of times, regardless of the argument, regardless of the thread, people should read that, think "oh, its already been discussed" and move on. Or start a subthread? Im sick of getting a notification that there are five new posts and its just the same old tripe. "I expected more from this studio because of X" vs "Your argument is unrealistic because of X".

We get it. We can argue all day long about what is fair and good, but in the end fow is going to make something, and we can only hold them to what they say, and then what they do. But to argue in between what they say and they do over what they should have done or might do, is only fun once. After that its just two dogs barking.

So, you're right, its up to people defending to just shut it or simply write "that argument has been made before, please go read back", and its up to the other side to think about what they post is valuable. Both are unlikely to happen though

Edit: Im going to back to ignoring this whole discussion about whether or not fow should do X or not now though, and see if there are fun, legitimate discussions going on, and then jump back in

 

[TheUnsaid]

i'm just saying that at least we should able to control camera angles or change position not stuck in a one simple position and loop

Hmmm...
Actually. I disagree with this.

I think it's better if camera control isn't given to the player.
The camera is a tool for framing.
When an animator makes an animation, and they're conscious of where the camera is, they can make the motion, character's expression, and more fit well with that camera's location.

It's a femdom game so I don't know how well this example will be received here, but look at Labyrinth of Estrus.


The camera is a thing the animator is moving around to accentuate the eroticism and impact of the scenes. The camera is moved in close when the player gets dived on. When the full on fellatio is happening, the camera keeps the head centered following the mouth. The background moves around it.

Imagine if the player was controlling that camera. Sure the player can sneak and look at the wolf-girl's vag if he wants to, but the aspects of the scene that the animator worked on, like the girl's changing expressions, or the player's pants getting pulled off might be out of camera.

Also, a lot of animators use fixed camera's to cheat and make bodies move in completely unnatural ways. I remember, back when Tumblr was a thing, HowlSFM showed one of the making of's of one of his animations, and the guy's neck was stretched and almost breaking in other angles just for the animation to work for that one camera angle. The animation was great, and fit his artistic vision, but the animation would look awful in any other camera angle.

I'm willing to bet similar cheats are probably happening with some of the scenes in subverse and that's why alternate camera angles aren't a thing.

So yeah. I wouldn't give the camera away to the player as it's really useful as a directing tool and can be used to heighten the eroticism of scenes and draw focus to where you want it to be.

 

[NBV]

We can agree on the camera being used for framing perfect angles in dynamic sex scenes, but that's not how it was used in the first early access version. The video example you posted isn't even close to anything we've seen them do in the game so far. If they do keep the camera fixed but have dynamic fixed camera angles like what you've shown, then keep it by all means. If it's going to be the same static positions with minor speed ups and an ejaculation ending, then is there really any need to keep it fixed?

 

[Zeddy]

"but look at Labyrinth of Estrus."

If I'm not mistaken, Labyrinth of Estrus does give limited camera control to the player. Point still stands though. From seeing some of the scenes in Subverse with unreal unlocker, I believe with a little cleanup that they could give camera control, or at least multiple fixed angles with camera options, for select scenes they deem special enough. They probably are already going to do that with the longer scenes they have mentioned. I do enjoy good camera work.

 

[TheUnsaid]

The video example you posted isn't even close to anything we've seen them do in the game so far. If they do keep the camera fixed but have dynamic fixed camera angles like what you've shown, then keep it by all means. If it's going to be the same static positions with minor speed ups and an ejaculation ending, then is there really any need to keep it fixed?

Of course, I'm not saying that they should keep everything as is.

I think jumping to saying, "we want a user controlled camera" is not what the consumers should be asking for.
In fact, I'm seeing too many people jump to solutions they think are best for the game when they should just be pointing out problems. It's up to the devs to think up solutions that are right for them if they even agree with the problems being problems in the first place.

If I'm not mistaken, Labyrinth of Estrus does give limited camera control to the player.

No it doesn't.

 

[NBV]

at least multiple fixed angles with camera options, for select scenes they deem special enough. They probably are already going to do that with the longer scenes they have mentioned. I do enjoy good camera work.

Or at least have a cross-section kind of angle to show the penetration happening for scenes where the camera hides that angle. I'm referring to scenes like this:

A small thing on the top right of the screen to show the machine's dildo actually penetrating her vagina would make this scene less boring to look at.

Of course, I'm not saying that they should keep everything as is.

I think jumping to saying, "we want a more dynamic camera" is not what the consumers should be asking for.
In fact, I'm seeing too many people jump to solutions they think are best for the game when they should just be pointing out problems. It's up to the devs to think up solutions that are right for them if they even agree with the problems being problems in the first place.

No it doesn't.

Well, there were plenty of people giving more thought of replies than just asking for an unlocked camera. These things tend to get lost in the pile though. There's a lot of posts pointing out problems with suggestions, rather than being solutions they think devs must do.

 

[Zeddy]

No it doesn't.

Ya I just checked you can change the camera with R1 L1, I said "limited" camera control for a reason.

 

[Zeddy]

A small thing on the top right of the screen to show the machine's dildo actually penetrating her vagina would make this scene less boring to look at.

That would probably end up looking like what Succubus Cafe did. I'm not a huge fan with how some of those turn out for games. There have been a few 3d artists that have been making some high quality pre rendered internal views that look great though. It definitely wouldn't be the hardest thing to add but that's up to FOW of course. It's not a make or break feature for me but it would be cool for some people I think.

Edit: I thought you were talking about internal views since you said "cross-section," If that's not what you meant, sorry about that.

 

[TheUnsaid]

Ya I just checked you can change the camera with R1 L1, I said "limited" camera control for a reason.

Ah. I'm playing it keyboard and mouse so I didn't know that.

Or at least have a cross-section kind of angle to show the penetration happening for scenes where the camera hides that angle. I'm referring to scenes like this:

A small thing on the top right of the screen to show the machine's dildo actually penetrating her vagina would make this scene less boring to look at.

Crossection views are surprisingly mixed in reception.
I'm on the team that likes them, because I like seeing the place that gets penetrated or that feeling of penetration in general, but others feel disgusted at the sight of seeing the "inside" of a body.

In most games, they're usually toggles, and in MMD videos and the like the animators outright create separate versions of their videos with and without them.

Well, there were plenty of people giving more thought of replies than just asking for an unlocked camera. These things tend to get lost in the pile though. There's a lot of posts pointing out problems with suggestions, rather than being solutions they think devs must do.

Yeah that's fair. Maybe I'm just hyper-focusing on the people who think they have the answers... but I can't fault them too hard. They have a feeling something has to be done and are giving their take. I just wish more consumers could actually communicate their desires correctly.

With the whole discussion on NTR (which as I said earlier isn't even what they think is the problem), and the desire for a player controlled camera... I just hope the devs don't get inundated by complaints that don't even get to the core of what the complainers care about.

Well at the end of the day, it's up to the dev to be able to see through this and get to the core of what people REALLY want from them, and if they want to do it anyway.

____

Regarding whether or not Subverse locks its camera for directing reasons or not...
I think they do.


They framed this scene to only work on this angle. Even the Mantic scenes are framed in a way that the how the character expresses themselves and where exactly the motion are, are the focus.

Plus the actual setting of the ship might not be completely moddeled. Like Kili's 4 person gangbang? Where even are they in that scene? I'm pretty sure they definitely do not want any male faces in any of these scenes because they're not modeling them. I mean... look at the captain. If you have control over the camera you could see his face which isn't work they're gonna do.

Is it good directing? Not really. It's ok, but it's not part of a larger scene, so the camera can't really do much work, and because the scenes don't progress or move in any way like Labyrinth of Estrus, they can't do interesting things on an animation level that improves eroticism.

Honestly? 90% of my issues regarding the scenes themselves directly would be solved if these scenes just had

1. Pre-insert. Like the dick is out and not inside the girl
2. Insertion. The actual sex movement.
3. Creampie. End of sex movement.

And dialogue all the way through to make the scenes more erotic. Hmm... but that's more voice acting work... It's really crucial to setting up a tone and more importantly PACE to these scenes though. If all you get is a 5 second SFM animation the pace of the scenes is nothing. It's done immediately and the scene feels unsatisfying. It's why people don't just look at the CG for the games they like but play the games and see the scenes in the games.

Of course my criticisms about sexual content integration wouldn't change still. I'm just talking about the scenes themselves, not how they integrate into the full game.

But well.. I'm not here for the adult content anyway XD
It's FOW after all. I don't sexually align with them 99% of the time. I'm curious what they'll do next tho. Pretty hyped for the next update.

 

[RandoCard3]

Have they given a set date for the next release, or is it a vague window?

 

[Gwedelino]

To the post above me : Early October, nothing more accurate than this.

I know that next update is still not released, however I remember Studio Fow telling us when they released the first version of the game that the two next big updates are gonna be :

1) Ela's Update
2) Pandora System rework / upgrade / whatever you call it

Do someone remember the same thing or I am making up things about that 2nd update?

 

[RandoCard3]

To the post above me : Early October, nothing more accurate than this.

I know that next update is still not released, however I remember Studio Fow telling us when they released the first version of the game that the two next big updates are gonna be :

1) Ela's Update
2) Pandora System rework / upgrade / whatever you call it

Do someone remember the same thing or I am making up things about that 2nd update?

Thanks

 

[Razrback16]

To the post above me : Early October, nothing more accurate than this.

I know that next update is still not released, however I remember Studio Fow telling us when they released the first version of the game that the two next big updates are gonna be :

1) Ela's Update
2) Pandora System rework / upgrade / whatever you call it

Do someone remember the same thing or I am making up things about that 2nd update?

Pretty sure you are correct on this.

 

[Deleted member 324588]

Sure, and I completely agree! But I would also say that if an argument is had for at least a couple of times, regardless of the argument, regardless of the thread, people should read that, think "oh, its already been discussed" and move on. Or start a subthread? Im sick of getting a notification that there are five new posts and its just the same old tripe. "I expected more from this studio because of X" vs "Your argument is unrealistic because of X".

We get it. We can argue all day long about what is fair and good, but in the end fow is going to make something, and we can only hold them to what they say, and then what they do. But to argue in between what they say and they do over what they should have done or might do, is only fun once. After that its just two dogs barking.

So, you're right, its up to people defending to just shut it or simply write "that argument has been made before, please go read back", and its up to the other side to think about what they post is valuable. Both are unlikely to happen though

Edit: Im going to back to ignoring this whole discussion about whether or not fow should do X or not now though, and see if there are fun, legitimate discussions going on, and then jump back in

You've more or less summed up this thread. I don't enjoy repeating my defenses over and over, but people keep making the same complaints over and over. When there isn't anything new to really discuss yet, its just redundant, especially on a pirate forum where your thoughts really don't matter to the devs. If you wanted to have your words read, you'd join the Discord.

So when the Elaisha update occurs in the next few weeks, I'll be about to answer folks's technical or game issues. But I'm done tangling with the same talking points on end.

 

[TheUnsaid]

When there isn't anything new to really discuss yet, its just redundant,

Is there anything wrong with being redundant in a discussion?

Does every new user need to read through 224 pages of discussion to make sure that the thing they're about to say wasn't said or discussed before?

Should old users who've made statements not make them anymore even though the thread's active participants have most likely changed?

especially on a pirate forum where your thoughts really don't matter to the devs.

I mean... I own the game on Steam, and have made statements on steam's discussion board too. A discussion around a project doesn't have to reach the creators to have value.

Like the NTR discussion earlier, whether or not that reaches the Subverse team is irrelevant. It's about the framing of what the users are actually complaining about. Is it really NTR they don't want or is it that they want exclusive heroines? Does the game really fit the definition of NTR? Points can be made on either side, and a discussion had, but whatever answer people come to doesn't necessarily matter to the game, but the user's own perception. If their perception changes they know how to contact the Subverse team.

I know you don't mean to downplay considering you're also an active participant in the discussions, but the discussions here aren't innately irrelevant just because they happen here.

 

[kasata]

Man, some people down bad, you could write a book with all these exhausting paragraphs. We need to take a moment and appreciate the quiet before the new update, cause soon enough the "i dOn't lIkE ThIs fEtIsH, wHy iS It iN ThE GaMe, i'M fOrCeD To pLaY ThIs" crowd will take over this thread again.

 

[Evilfish82]

Man, some people down bad, you could write a book with all these exhausting paragraphs. We need to take a moment and appreciate the quiet before the new update, cause soon enough the "i dOn't lIkE ThIs fEtIsH, wHy iS It iN ThE GaMe, i'M fOrCeD To pLaY ThIs" crowd will take over this thread again.

Most of the people aren't complaining about the game itself. Yeah some are pointing out what they want but that is to be expected. The game is still in development and if there's a time to make themselves heard is this. What most people seem to be having a problem with is the lack of communication from the devs which has been terrible.