Unreal Engine Completed Subverse [v1.1.1] [Studio Fow]

[Deleted member 324588]

There's one slogan that encapsulates a vast majority of porn devs, "We'll milk your wallet, but not you", and the ability to complain when people expect progress, and an actual dev schedule.

They had roadmaps before but all that led to was stress and complaining if they were even a day late on something.

And progress isn’t instant in a update for two, they’re not crunching their team to make a quarterly earnings report look better to their shareholders. So things like the Pandora overhaul are gonna take time. Even so the foreplay clips before the recruitment scenes are decent, adding that context people have been asking for. I doubt that will be done for every Pandora scene (because there are dozens of them at this point) but that is something showing progress.

 

[trigunxkeal]

what's up with the torrent file

 

[Derpina5678]

Triple A budgets are waaay more than 2M. And wasn't their patreon gone long before they announced this game? I'm not saying they don't deserve the blame as they clearly mismanged this. I'm just saying you guys don't have a full view on the costs of running a business. Can you share some examples of better quality, or larger scope for less costs? I'm curious to know.

Neverwinter Nights was developed on 1.2 mil and took 3-5 years depending on how you count by 50~70 people (including artists, va, testers etc).
Pillars of Eternity on 4 mil took slightly under 3 years from kickstarted to finished game by 110~120 people (including artists, va, commercials and promo costs, etc).

Not that a few Bethesda devs and modern Obsidian dev team are a fair comparison point from experience, but they are a decent "good quality for money benchmark" for AA budget dev cycles. The estimated 2 mil kickstarter and post taxes on initial sales around 1.5~1.6 (so 3.6mil total initial budget) FOW got 4 and 3 years ago is more than enough for a game. Especially since over 80% of the initial release scenes were done before the kickstarter went up, yet in content are barely at the end of Act 1 out of 5 of those comparisons.

Naturally didnt include studio costs in the comparison because FOW doesnt have a fixed studio or coverage, but are off contract and work from home.

 

[ShoeBailey]

How did this game go from early access/kickstart to early access/beta after $1mil+ and literal years of dev time?

 

[Oppailance]

People really have unrealistic expectations with regards to speed and small teams. Four elements trainer took forever, but it ended up awesome.

 

[j4yj4m]

People really have unrealistic expectations with regards to speed and small teams. Four elements trainer took forever, but it ended up awesome.

Well, in this case it's bascially the opposite. Here they basically promised "the revolution" (literally on their kickstarter), collected a lot of money and delivered something that didn't meet these high expectations of many who already played these kind of games before.

So yeah, it's indeed about managing expectations - but that goes both ways. I'm sure people would be quite a bit kinder and more positive about the game, if the initial advertisements had been a little more modest.

 

[Deleted member 324588]

Well, in this case it's bascially the opposite. Here they basically promised "the revolution" (literally on their kickstarter), collected a lot of money and delivered something that didn't meet these high expectations of many who already played these kind of games before.

So yeah, it's indeed about managing expectations - but that goes both ways. I'm sure people would be quite a bit kinder and more positive about the game, if the initial advertisements had been a little more modest.

I’d say they were pretty modest, it was articles and such hyping it like it was gonna be the XCOM/Mass Effect of smut games when you shouldn’t have expected something of that level from a first game.

And most of the letdown didn’t come from the backers, who’d been following along every dev diary and seeing how it developed, but from newer players who didn’t look into it at all and bought in thinking every gal was gonna have a 30-minute Kunoichi film dedicated to them, or somehow got the impression that there’d be no alien fugging in an adult space game.

 

[NBV]

How did this game go from early access/kickstart to early access/beta after $1mil+ and literal years of dev time?

I would assume it had to do with lots of mismanagement and the refusal to have a roadmap early on. Things like the original project manager working on setting up Fow Coin to be released at the same time they put out Subverse's EA version is one example.

EDIT: Subverse's dev team and original steam page referenced it as a porn version of Mass Effect, not just random articles. You'd think after being constantly called out for being wrong about these things that the two usual suspects would stop bringing them up. But hey, let's talk out of our ass and claim without substance that we know it wasn't a fair amount of the backers who were let down by the game.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Neverwinter Nights was developed on 1.2 mil and took 3-5 years depending on how you count by 50~70 people (including artists, va, testers etc).
Pillars of Eternity on 4 mil took slightly under 3 years from kickstarted to finished game by 110~120 people (including artists, va, commercials and promo costs, etc).

Uhm, if you check dev sallaries back in 2002 of when Never Winter nights was released. Ranging from 50k entry sallaries for art and up towards 90k for coders. NWN had a dev team of 60+ people. So you need to dig a bit deeper than 1.2m budget for that game.

 

[Joshua Tree]

I would assume it had to do with lots of mismanagement and the refusal to have a roadmap early on. Things like the original project manager working on setting up Fow Coin to be released at the same time they put out Subverse's EA version is one example.

EDIT: Subverse's dev team and original steam page referenced it as a porn version of Mass Effect, not just random articles. You'd think after being constantly called out for being wrong about these things that the two usual suspects would stop bringing them up. But hey, let's talk out of our ass and claim without substance that we know it wasn't a fair amount of the backers who were let down by the game.

Uh... they said "Mass Effect" like exploration..... of which the game have. If you refute that, then you should go back and play Mass Effect and move your little spaceship around planets and what not to find shit to do.

And I believe they said romance like plots you would see in Mass Effect just with lots of lewd shit.

Also, if you claim the original steam page referenced it as a porn version of Mass Effect, you can always dig that page out with waybackmachine and show us right?

 

[EmilIrving]

Also, if you claim the original steam page referenced it as a porn version of Mass Effect, you can always dig that page out with waybackmachine and show us right?

Kind of curious about that honesty, I don't recall the steam page holding that description. I only remember anything pointing directly to Mass Effect would be the teaser trailer where Studio Fow made fun of the third game's endings.

 

[Ladydarkness]

torrent file doesnt work

Right button, save link as...

 

[Joshua Tree]

Kind of curious about that honesty, I don't recall the steam page holding that description. I only remember anything pointing directly to Mass Effect would be the teaser trailer where Studio Fow made fun of the third game's endings.

EVERYONE made fun of that ending, and the players made such a riot that Bioware had to go back and fix a LESS worse ending. The original ending took a giant dump on players that had played the entire series. You could tell the real talent at Bioware did wane over the years. And then we got the Mass Effect Andromeda with all the mongo faces.. good job Bioware

 

[NBV]

Uh... they said "Mass Effect" like exploration..... of which the game have. If you refute that, then you should go back and play Mass Effect and move your little spaceship around planets and what not to find shit to do.

And I believe they said romance like plots you would see in Mass Effect just with lots of lewd shit.

Also, if you claim the original steam page referenced it as a porn version of Mass Effect, you can always dig that page out with waybackmachine and show us right?

You're being completely disingenuous if you're going to use the argument that they were only referring to Mass Effect's ship phases for exploration. They promised and answered Q/A questions in ways that implied there would be things that they have since rolled back on to avoid upsetting a subset of fans. You acknowledged this many times before, but you insist of pretending people are grasping for content they never promised or eluded to the game having.

I've already posted the past steam pages or references to their kickstarter pages in past conversations with you involved. You've just chosen to ignore them when they were posted. There's a lot of lewd things they teased they would add, only for them to be removed from their pages and never mentioned again.



It took many patches for them to even acknowledge that they had to add these, which still aren't implemented yet. They're only NOW adding foreplay to these scenes that backers kept giving feedback on the scenes feeling empty without them.


EDIT: Here's one convo where you pulled the same convo your doing now and then had to weasel around it after the fact was shown. https://f95zone.to/threads/subverse-v0-4-5-studio-fow.77900/post-6797552

 

[Joshua Tree]

You're being completely disingenuous if you're going to use the argument that they were only referring to Mass Effect's ship phases for exploration. They promised and answered Q/A questions in ways that implied there would be things that they have since rolled back on to avoid upsetting a subset of fans. You acknowledged this many times before, but you insist of pretending people are grasping for content they never promised or eluded to the game having.

You failed to provide steam did show it as Mass Effect of Porn back then too..

And post a stretch goal about scenes they already said will be coming, the loyality ones. idk that about. You don't decide what order content get released in early access. they do..

 

[Benthic Lurker]

Save please

 

[NBV]

You failed to provide steam did show it as Mass Effect of Porn back then too..

And post a stretch goal about scenes they already said will be coming, the loyality ones. idk that about. You don't decide what order content get released in early access. they do..

You can't use the Wayback Machine on adult steam games. It requires you to login and you can't login on a snapshot machine website. All we can do is point to the current pages they still have up that mentioned Mass Effect exploration.



And the crux of my point is that they did promise backers things that they have walked back on. Now they're universe excuse is that it's a "game with porn, not a porn game", despite advertising it as the apex of porn games.


Didn't they say one of their pre-Taron or Ela updates that they were going to roll out some of their Pandora changes but never did? I know I don't decide they're order, but they shouldn't overpromise things either. If they couldn't make it happen, just say so in a dev diary. Going dark on that front and pretending like the "Pandora Overhauls" discussion wasn't a thing is not the way to go.

 

[droglob]

People really have unrealistic expectations with regards to speed and small teams. Four elements trainer took forever, but it ended up awesome.

Don't you know how this works?

Average WEG scammer copy pasting gifs into HTML?
Great game! Take your time, making porn games is hard! God bless!

Studio FOW?
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[NBV]

Don't you know how this works?

Average WEG scammer copy pasting gifs into HTML?
Great game! Take your time, making porn games is hard! God bless!

Studio FOW?
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

What upsets people the most is when developers or their most die-hard white knights tend to be dishonest with how they reply to feedback and negativity. Maybe it'd help if people stopped pretending every person who says their disappointed with aspects of the game are freeloading non-backers or stop grouping them all into a camp of people "REEEING"?

Other WEG devs don't get 2-4 million in funding when they pretend 15 second loops are okay.

 

[droglob]

What upsets people the most is when developers or their most die-hard white knights tend to be dishonest with how they reply to feedback and negativity. Maybe it'd help if people stopped pretending every person who says their disappointed with aspects of the game are freeloading non-backers or stop grouping them all into a camp of people "REEEING"?

Other WEG devs don't get 2-4 million in funding when they pretend 15 second loops are okay.

it looks like you typed a lot of words but all that got through was passive aggressive bullshit and hypocrisy.

WAIT WAIT WAIT
3 letter name? Am i misremembering or are you the resident anti FOW off his meds? I might legit be misremembering but he's bound to be around here and you're starting to ring a bell.