RPGM Succubus Covenant Generation One: The Cursed Forest [Ch. 5] [Olympus]

[LingMLBBB]

I have read lot of posts about how this

It's so clear that Zion is pretty much burned out or just has the intention to milk the Patreon money as much as he can. Even with the initial promise of giving periodical updates about the development, after finishing the part of writing the H-Scenes and story in late April, there was complete silence. Then late June comes and gives an update with a pretext (can be true or false) that his mother was sick and didn't get to work on the game for 10 days. I'm really sorry for him if this happened, since I was in the same boat with a mother who had medical issues, but people deserved the truth in the fact that the development was halted for two months. . Then in July he starts revealing the layout for the maps, which were, to be honest, like a slap in the face for me. Four maps with bland and generic tiles, which even a newbie dev could finish up in a couple of hours tops. Atop of it all, the maps are symmetrical in sides, WITH 0 DIFFERENCES WHATSOEVER, thing which a developer can confirm is the biggest sign of rushing and not giving a fuck, since you create one half of the map and just duplicate it on the other side. Basically he just started working on the game again at the beginning of July and is probably in a rush mode to finish up this chapter. I guarantee it won't come out any time sooner than September and it will be a piece bland rushed garbage, with some unbalanced fights and 3 hours tops of gameplay, with 0 soul or creativity.

Just to make a comparison with a truly dedicated developer, Torotoro started making Paradox Part 3 1 year before this guy and he is currently test phasing a game with over 120 hours worth of content. I was really rooting for this project because I saw ambition, but that quickly faded away when he released the Ch3 demo which was truly laughable.

Oh and as a reference to his empty promises, check out his reply from way back:

Yes I miss those ages . Most jap games come with over 70 hours and lot of arts need to wait 1year but worth.
I am glad those game creators didnt become petroners.
Those people who know this game engine is easy to use. I am pleased with you guys.

 

[Johnlie2803]

Any more updates from the devs? I begin to build up hope since the news that they plan to release the next chapter. Is the next update really happen on August?

 

[Femdom Enjoyer]

Any more updates from the devs? I begin to build up hope since the news that they plan to release the next chapter. Is the next update really happen on August?

It's not confirmed, but Zion said in discord recently that he's planning on breaking the tribal expansion part into a separate update in order to try and get the content out sooner. Based on that, I think a month from now isn't unlikely for the next update. It was also said that the recollection room would come out either with the tribal expansion, or at a later date. I'm guessing one of the discord admins will help make the recollection room while he starts on WS again.

 

[FrostFire88]

It's so clear that Zion is pretty much burned out or just has the intention to milk the Patreon money as much as he can. Even with the initial promise of giving periodical updates about the development, after finishing the part of writing the H-Scenes and story in late April, there was complete silence. Then late June comes and gives an update with a pretext (can be true or false) that his mother was sick and didn't get to work on the game for 10 days. I'm really sorry for him if this happened, since I was in the same boat with a mother who had medical issues, but people deserved the truth in the fact that the development was halted for two months. . Then in July he starts revealing the layout for the maps, which were, to be honest, like a slap in the face for me. Four maps with bland and generic tiles, which even a newbie dev could finish up in a couple of hours tops. Atop of it all, the maps are symmetrical in sides, WITH 0 DIFFERENCES WHATSOEVER, thing which a developer can confirm is the biggest sign of rushing and not giving a fuck, since you create one half of the map and just duplicate it on the other side. Basically he just started working on the game again at the beginning of July and is probably in a rush mode to finish up this chapter. I guarantee it won't come out any time sooner than September and it will be a piece bland rushed garbage, with some unbalanced fights and 3 hours tops of gameplay, with 0 soul or creativity.

Just to make a comparison with a truly dedicated developer, Torotoro started making Paradox Part 3 1 year before this guy and he is currently test phasing a game with over 120 hours worth of content. I was really rooting for this project because I saw ambition, but that quickly faded away when he released the Ch3 demo which was truly laughable.

Oh and as a reference to his empty promises, check out his reply from way back:

I think this paints a much bleaker picture than what's happening. I mean I don't quite get your point about the map design and fight balance for Chapter 5. Combat and and Map Design has never been SC's strong suits. These seem like odd reasons to think Chapter 5 is going to be bad.

As for burn out, I'm not convinced he's totally burned out and trying to milk people's money on Patreon. Reading his posts on Patreon, he's clearly still passionate about the world he's created and the genre. I think if anything he's disheartened his project hasn't been panning out the way he originally intended, and to be fair, that's definitely on him. You're supposed to start and aim small, and if things go well you can grow from there. He set himself up for failure by making big promises like 100 Chapters, 2 Chapters a year, animated H-Scenes, etc etc.

I don't think it's fair either to compare him to TrTr. They're a larger and more experienced team. I don't look at Paradox Part 3 as a shining example of good project management either. While Part 3 will probably turn out great, it's very clear development didn't go as smoothly and as quick as they originally intended. Shit happens. Zion found that out the hard way multiple times, and he definitely needs to rethink and restructure Succubus Covenant into a size that's more manageable for him.

 

[Femdom Enjoyer]

I think this paints a much bleaker picture than what's happening. I mean I don't quite get your point about the map design and fight balance for Chapter 5. Combat and and Map Design has never been SC's strong suits. These seem like odd reasons to think Chapter 5 is going to be bad.

As for burn out, I'm not convinced he's totally burned out and trying to milk people's money on Patreon. Reading his posts on Patreon, he's clearly still passionate about the world he's created and the genre. I think if anything he's disheartened his project hasn't been panning out the way he originally intended, and to be fair, that's definitely on him. You're supposed to start and aim small, and if things go well you can grow from there. He set himself up for failure by making big promises like 100 Chapters, 2 Chapters a year, animated H-Scenes, etc etc.

I don't think it's fair either to compare him to TrTr. They're a larger and more experienced team. I don't look at Paradox Part 3 as a shining example of good project management either. While Part 3 will probably turn out great, it's very clear development didn't go as smoothly and as quick as they originally intended. Shit happens. Zion found that out the hard way multiple times, and he definitely needs to rethink and restructure Succubus Covenant into a size that's more manageable for him.

Yeah agreed. Look at any city map SC has and it's kinda overly big, symmetrical, and uninteresting. I hope his map making skills improve over time but it's not a big deal. TrTr was from the start using multiple artists, and didn't have issues with having the lead artist on the team get injured twice and having to take breaks to focus on side projects. He put out a full game and a chapter for another game in that time.

I do think Zion has some issues with project management and workflow, but I think it's a bit silly to say he's milking shit on patreon. Honestly, he could (and should imo) do a lot more to incentivize people to subscribe on patreon. His polls about which succubus should be the guest succubus, letting the patrons vote to design features, and giving higher tier patrons more votes would absolutely amp up patronage, but he isn't doing that. Even just putting out more consistent monthly reports would give people more reason to subscribe, but I honestly think he's just putting his nose down and working on the game.

 

[kwunt]

If it's a $50K scam, people would have been wary and recognized, but it's a $5, so it's going to pass indifferently

 

[dregatar]

And hopefully 2021 will be the year that we gain your trust back.
Even if you don't support us directly, keep tuned on us.
There will be a big announcement in a few weeks, and once Kain returns we are going to intensify our work on the main series.

6 months for a chapter is something that it will not happen again. It must not.
I'll announce once Kain returns, and I ask for you to judge us based on this year.

Thank you for the support you gave us. And I'm sorry we failed you last year.

I think this paints a much bleaker picture than what's happening. I mean I don't quite get your point about the map design and fight balance for Chapter 5. Combat and and Map Design has never been SC's strong suits. These seem like odd reasons to think Chapter 5 is going to be bad.

As for burn out, I'm not convinced he's totally burned out and trying to milk people's money on Patreon. Reading his posts on Patreon, he's clearly still passionate about the world he's created and the genre. I think if anything he's disheartened his project hasn't been panning out the way he originally intended, and to be fair, that's definitely on him. You're supposed to start and aim small, and if things go well you can grow from there. He set himself up for failure by making big promises like 100 Chapters, 2 Chapters a year, animated H-Scenes, etc etc.

I don't think it's fair either to compare him to TrTr. They're a larger and more experienced team. I don't look at Paradox Part 3 as a shining example of good project management either. While Part 3 will probably turn out great, it's very clear development didn't go as smoothly and as quick as they originally intended. Shit happens. Zion found that out the hard way multiple times, and he definitely needs to rethink and restructure Succubus Covenant into a size that's more manageable for him.

Good maps and combat weren't SC's house mark, but at least the maps were not completely symmetrical, which is the lowest you can get in terms of design. What I'm trying to say is that judging by the points I wrote in my previous posts, the chapter will be rushed, which is never a good sign. I'm not even gonna go into combat, as we saw from the previous chapter that it's completely broken.

It's one thing to create posts about lore and a teaser here and there, but when it comes down to actually putting the work down to create the game which incorporates these things, I'm just not seeing it.
Also, you're correct, he keeps setting himself up for failure every time he makes an announcement after a chapter is released. In my point of view, he tries to keep up the hype by promising things he can't fulfill. It's ok if it happens once or twice, but people got fed up with the excuses. At least don't announce or promise anything until you have a product near completion.

I think it's fair to compare anyone to TrTr, since he doesn't have a large team behind him. I don't know from where people jump to these conclusions, especially since he mentions he has to bring people alongside him to playtest, since this project can't be completed solely. Even if there were issues with development (like one of his major artists, Xelvy, just disappearing from the face of this planet), he will deliver P3, a game worth of 150+ hours playtime, while SC can be completed in around 8 hours if you focus on the main story. People should compare him to anybody else in this business, since he set a standard for what a truly dedicated dev can do, after which you can see how other people in the business lack these qualities.

 

[LingMLBBB]

Everything start with RPG engine is easy to use and cost less time.
This one basic fact that every zion fans ignore then insult others .

Doing alone or with group doesnt cover this fact
Even if torotoro is a single person i sure he will work more with honesty than all patroners.
Cause patron itself is a good scam place.

Alright if you think zion is not milking money. He is just being a lazy bastard then

 

[Femdom Enjoyer]

Good maps and combat weren't SC's house mark, but at least the maps were not completely symmetrical

Look at Adalon, the Hammerfall Tribe, any of the three city-states, or any of the dungeons. They're all symetrical and kinda boring when you look at them zoomed out, but not that bad to play through. Honestly, the starting city in Warlock Saga was awful to me. Way too big and spread out. His encounter maps are good I think, but his cities and to a lesser extent his world map needs some work. I think he's making these maps to be more like his dungeon maps, due to the fact that they're artificially created, so symmetry makes sense kinda. I think it's pretty clearly a pattern in his map designs, and not a sign of sudden laziness. I agree that the designs look bland, but I don't think they'll be that bad to play through.

I think it's fair to compare anyone to TrTr, since he doesn't have a large team behind him.

I mean kinda, but TrTr has a team behind him, and Zion doesn't. I agree that TrTr is a better workhorse though, sure. If it was just TrTr vs Zion in who could put out more content faster, I think we can all agree that TrTr would win. But I also think TrTr is a fucking legend, making the best h-game series known to man, and anyone would fall short compared to him. That doesn't mean Zion is maliciously abusing his patrons.

 

[dregatar]

Look at Adalon, the Hammerfall Tribe, any of the three city-states, or any of the dungeons. They're all symetrical and kinda boring when you look at them zoomed out, but not that bad to play through. Honestly, the starting city in Warlock Saga was awful to me. Way too big and spread out. His encounter maps are good I think, but his cities and to a lesser extent his world map needs some work. I think he's making these maps to be more like his dungeon maps, due to the fact that they're artificially created, so symmetry makes sense kinda. I think it's pretty clearly a pattern in his map designs, and not a sign of sudden laziness. I agree that the designs look bland, but I don't think they'll be that bad to play through.



I mean kinda, but TrTr has a team behind him, and Zion doesn't. I agree that TrTr is a better workhorse though, sure. If it was just TrTr vs Zion in who could put out more content faster, I think we can all agree that TrTr would win. But I also think TrTr is a fucking legend, making the best h-game series known to man, and anyone would fall short compared to him. That doesn't mean Zion is maliciously abusing his patrons.

The images of the maps you attached are from the dungeons and I don't expect variety in them, however, the map of the world zones were diverse and even had some exploration along the way. The last maps he uploaded on discord were the world maps for the 4 succubi before the Dutchess, which should be intriguing and filled with some challenges before fighting the bosses at least.

My main point is not that he's milking the patreons, I'll even drop that idea, however there's no doubt he's gotten lazy or burned out along the way. The best evidence I can give is ch3 development. He announced that Kain had some medical issues and couldn't draw anymore, however instead of using this time to develop the chapter and use placeholders instead of the art, so he could replace them at the moment Kain came back, he decided to sit on his ass and do absolutely nothing. Atop of it all, he released a "demo" version of ch3, since he realised the time gap from the last chapter's release was too big and people started to lose interest. I'm just venting my frustrations since I invested 300$+ in this project in the first 12 months, hoping for improvements from chapter to chapter even if there were issues along the way. Sadly, the trend seems to be the opposite.

 

[ElitexCursed]

Brother in christ, it's a hentai game.

 

[Femdom Enjoyer]

The images of the maps you attached are from the dungeons and I don't expect variety in them, however, the map of the world zones were diverse and even had some exploration along the way. The last maps he uploaded on discord were the world maps for the 4 succubi before the Dutchess, which should be intriguing and filled with some challenges before fighting the bosses at least.

I get what you're saying, and agree that the upcoming maps are boring. I just think he's better at "nature" maps than he is at maps that are built by someone or something. Some of the towns are decent, but most maps that are man-made (or made by something else) are excessively symmetrical and boxy, and not just the dungeons. Regardless, I agree the maps are kinda disappointing, but I also place a lot of value on them.

My main point is not that he's milking the patreons, I'll even drop that idea, however there's no doubt he's gotten lazy or burned out along the way. The best evidence I can give is ch3 development. He announced that Kain had some medical issues and couldn't draw anymore, however instead of using this time to develop the chapter and use placeholders instead of the art, so he could replace them at the moment Kain came back, he decided to sit on his ass and do absolutely nothing. Atop of it all, he released a "demo" version of ch3, since he realised the time gap from the last chapter's release was too big and people started to lose interest. I'm just venting my frustrations since I invested 300$+ in this project in the first 12 months, hoping for improvements from chapter to chapter even if there were issues along the way. Sadly, the trend seems to be the opposite.

Yeah I can understand your frustration if you were a high-tier backer. Honestly, I don't think that he provides enough benefit or content to justify subscribing big atm, nor has he for a while. But I disagree about the quality of content not improving. I started during chapter 2. And chapter 3 saw a huge improvement as far as gameplay was concerned. He spent a long time redoing the combat on the previous fights, and adding new content to the game. Chapter 4 saw improvements to the writing as well. I wouldn't want him constantly iterating on older content though, so it's fine he hasn't gone back and spent more time redoing the systems. As far as sitting on his ass, idk man, I can't say how hard he works or not, but he released Warlock Saga Ch. 1 in that time.

Honestly I preferred Kain's art, but Kain got injured, then stepped down from the project or something. (Idk what went on there, he said he was not doing lewd art anymore, but still does it?) It seems to me like Zion got blindsided by Kain getting injured, then stepping down, then having to strip all of IND3X's animations, spending time to hire new artists, getting caught up on art, only for the next artist to get injured. I think he is responsible for some of the delays, and lacks some game development and project management skills that would get the ball rolling faster, but I genuinely think he's trying.

I do also think he's learning from some of his mistakes, and trying to do better. Best example of that? His artist/art bottleneck which caused so many delays? He's resolved to make sure that isn't going to be an issue anymore, and hired like 5+ artists to work on the game with the patron money, and has art for multiple chapters of the next game ready to go. That to me is what shows the most dedication. He's investing massively in the art, and while he has some weaknesses as a game dev, as someone who pays attention in the discord, I do really think he's trying.

Sorry for the wallpost lmao

 

[blufalcon]

I find it kind of funny and vindicating that people are complaining now. A few years ago I brought up some criticism and was dogpiled on by the dev and a couple of his dickriders. Huge plot pacing issues and lack of depth to the combat. The main storyline is "just ok" and side quests are extremely empty. They introduced like 30 characters and less than a handful of them have any personality at all. There's a lot of lore but its presented in such a tedious way that it takes away from the experience. Not to mention the main drawing point of the game for me were the succubus designs which, in my opinion, have gotten worse with the change of artists. I pledged for chapter 3 and played that and then figured that the most glaring issues were probably going to persist forever.

 

[LingMLBBB]

I find it kind of funny and vindicating that people are complaining now. A few years ago I brought up some criticism and was dogpiled on by the dev and a couple of his dickriders. Huge plot pacing issues and lack of depth to the combat. The main storyline is "just ok" and side quests are extremely empty. They introduced like 30 characters and less than a handful of them have any personality at all. There's a lot of lore but its presented in such a tedious way that it takes away from the experience. Not to mention the main drawing point of the game for me were the succubus designs which, in my opinion, have gotten worse with the change of artists. I pledged for chapter 3 and played that and then figured that the most glaring issues were probably going to persist forever.

Yes also the animation. It is not even qualified as real animation like drawing lot of frames for frames per second like succubus academia.
Cutting a single succubus image like Body parts (head,butts) are cut out from main body and made them move in same pattern. That is the easiest and lowest level animation.
but still zion complain like it cost lot of time which is pretty dumb move he knew people addicted to game and nobody will complain that much

 

[LingMLBBB]

also zion tried to move different unique drain effects for each clans and moving effect on sex scene.
Lazy Zion really love searching new ways to make his already easy work easy.
But thanks to pateron nuke like comments those effects will comeback
lazy zion surrendered XD

 

[Succubus Hunter]

Zion is going to make Bo wei and Koda look like amateurs compared to the milking tactic he is about to drop,turns out HE was the succubus draining others of money all along!

Oh trust me, NOBODY could make Boda look like amateurs when it comes to delays.

But... Mistress Koda as a money sucking succubus is something that begs to be made into fanart (And shared to the ToT Patreon).

 

[FrostFire88]

I find it kind of funny and vindicating that people are complaining now. A few years ago I brought up some criticism and was dogpiled on by the dev and a couple of his dickriders. Huge plot pacing issues and lack of depth to the combat. The main storyline is "just ok" and side quests are extremely empty. They introduced like 30 characters and less than a handful of them have any personality at all. There's a lot of lore but its presented in such a tedious way that it takes away from the experience. Not to mention the main drawing point of the game for me were the succubus designs which, in my opinion, have gotten worse with the change of artists. I pledged for chapter 3 and played that and then figured that the most glaring issues were probably going to persist forever.

I guess I count myself fortunate that I love the new artist. Dancer Succubus is my personal favorite in the entire game. That said I think you echoed my biggest issue with the game, which is the pacing.

I can appreciate Zion loves the world he created and wants to world build and develop it's lore, but it's just too much imo. The gameplay/story cycle of Map -> Story section -> Map -> Story section -> Map -> Story section, really wears on me. Especially since the story sections are so long, even when you're holding down the skip button to speed up the dialogue.

Succubus Covenant is NOT a game you can speed run, mainly for this reason. With Chapter 5 around the corner, it's been recommended to start a fresh game when it releases, just to make extra sure you don't run into game breaking bugs. But no goddamn way am I doing that. It will literally take 10+ hours to start from the beginning and catch up to Chapter 5. The game desperately has needed a Skip Cutscene feature for a long time now and it's never been implemented.

But I am very much looking forward to Chapter 5. It is a bit sad Zion has lost control of managing his project, and much of the thread has turned against him. After Chapter 5, he can right the ship, but he needs to come to terms with the fact that he needs to seriously and significantly pull back on the scale of Succubus Covenant, and turn it into something that is more manageable for the time he has and the pace of development time he has set for the past few years.

 

[FrostFire88]

From what I read on the Patreon post and on Discord:

• Zion separating the Tribe Quest from Chapter 5 for now, so he can release the base game soon. He will release the base version of Chapter 5, and then immediately work on the Tribe Quests afterward.
• Tribe Quests include Love Interest quests, Secret Succubus, Shiki Succubus, Bloody Jaw girl, Hammerfall girl.
• Zion aims to finish development on Chapter 5 in August, and then submit for playtesting.
• As people play Chapter 5, he will be working on the Tribe Quests and wants to finish development on them in 1-2 months.

 

[animefan1111]

From what I read on the Patreon post and on Discord:

• Zion separating the Tribe Quest from Chapter 5 for now, so he can release the base game soon. He will release the base version of Chapter 5, and then immediately work on the Tribe Quests afterward.
• Tribe Quests include Love Interest quests, Secret Succubus, Shiki Succubus, Bloody Jaw girl, Hammerfall girl.
• Zion aims to finish development on Chapter 5 in August, and then submit for playtesting.
• As people play Chapter 5, he will be working on the Tribe Quests and wants to finish development on them in 1-2 months.

Thanks for the update. So yet another delay and he's not providing the entire chapter. This isn't surprising. It's in his economic interest to take his sweet time with the game since he gets paid by the month. Hopefully, the end product will be worth the wait.

 

[ZAIK0]

new art on patreon