VN Ren'Py Summer's Gone [S1 Steam + DLC] [Oceanlab]

[John972]

Characters acting batshit crazy? I'm guessing you didn't like the edgier MC? Can you give me an example of a "Character originally acting badshit crazy" that is no longer part of the current version of the game? Other than the Bella bedroom sister argument that used to be amazing, natural, logical and packed with raw emotion compared to the lethargic shitshow of a wet fart scene that replaced it? How about the new bathroom Nami scene that makes me want to gouge my eyes out and throw them into the fire, when she starts shaking like an epileptic monkey with downs? How's that for batshit crazy?

I stand by the adjectives I used. Appalling fits rather accurately when you put it in the context of the Steam release, the amount of work Ocean put on the reworks and how big the game is. Seriously, when was the last time you replayed this game? The broken English and the grammar errors stick out like a gangrenous wound.

And the dialogue quality is self evident. I would bet my left nut Ocean used to have someone REALLY FUCKING TALENTED writting the script for the first few versions of this game because the quality difference to what we have now is monumental. And I don't just mean English skills. I mean exposition, dialogue, character interaction...

Batshit Crazy? easy (if you really know the game)...

Spoiler: Examples

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OK, your turn. Please provide several examples of "broken English and the grammar errors [that] stick out like a gangrenous wound".

At most, each beta release contains the usual number of grammatical and spelling errors, especially considering English isn't Ocean's native language. Plenty of punters inform Ocean on Discord about grammar and spelling mistakes...unless you think they're all Muppets that couldn't proof-read a plum pudding.

Here are two examples from original CH 2 versus reworked CH 2 (original from CH 2 Beta, reworked from CH 4.5 FULL - the reworked parts of 4.5 FULL can be considered Beta in the same sense of CH 2 Beta, since neither release had player feedback)

Please point out to me 1. the "nosedive in dialogue quality" and 2. the "broken English and the grammar errors [that] stick out like a gangrenous wound." A less darker tone doesn't count as a "nosedive" because that is your subjective opinion.

Maja drives MC home:

Spoiler: CH 2

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Spoiler: CH 2 Rework

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MC and Bella are paired up in the Classroom:

Spoiler: CH 2

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Spoiler: CH 2 Rework

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Yeah, I get you're pissed that the game is no longer as "edgy" as you want or potentially doesn't follow the kink paths you want. This thread is filled with complaints the same as yours from punters who mask their disappointment in the less darker tone by calling the game crap, badly written etc etc.

As Ocean himself has stated:

Spoiler: Aug 19, 2021

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Spoiler: Mar 27, 2022

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[John972]

The only thing is questionable how this works with Amber being the MC's psychologist, should such a twists be prohibited by her professional ethics and maybe legal considerations?

Spoiler: Ocean, on Discord

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[Naiton]

Batshit Crazy? easy (if you really know the game)...

Spoiler: Examples

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OK, your turn. Please provide several examples of "broken English and the grammar errors [that] stick out like a gangrenous wound".

At most, each beta release contains the usual number of grammatical and spelling errors, especially considering English isn't Ocean's native language. Plenty of punters inform Ocean on Discord about grammar and spelling mistakes...unless you think they're all Muppets that couldn't proof-read a plum pudding.

Here are two examples from original CH 2 versus reworked CH 2 (original from CH 2 Beta, reworked from CH 4.5 FULL - the reworked parts of 4.5 FULL can be considered Beta in the same sense of CH 2 Beta, since neither release had player feedback)

Please point out to me 1. the "nosedive in dialogue quality" and 2. the "broken English and the grammar errors [that] stick out like a gangrenous wound." A less darker tone doesn't count as a "nosedive" because that is your subjective opinion.

Maja drives MC home:

Spoiler: CH 2

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Spoiler: CH 2 Rework

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MC and Bella are paired up in the Classroom:

Spoiler: CH 2

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Spoiler: CH 2 Rework

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Yeah, I get you're pissed that the game is no longer as "edgy" as you want or potentially doesn't follow the kink paths you want. This thread is filled with complaints the same as yours from punters who mask their disappointment in the less darker tone by calling the game crap, badly written etc etc.

As Ocean himself has stated:

Spoiler: Aug 19, 2021

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Spoiler: Mar 27, 2022

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But he has some valid points i think we discussed aswell time ago. He has this crtique because he has to change mid development.. and i think its fair to do it. His older game had similar issues with rereleasing chapters which does alienate current fans of his work .. and if the product fails to generate enough new ones .. youre cutting yourself . I think without the changes of the story .. just the better renders he would be on the first page of the filtered "by rating" games here which is a shame because he belongs there.

Ofc you can argue the good old "its his vision he can do whatever he whats" and its somewhat true.. he will do whatever he wants but many ppl see the game worse (writing). but changing charactermodels, and have a mc which considered letting vic die to chapter 4,5 he cuddles and let girls sleep on him did not give credit to his trauma. He did suffer for years and now he is in some days in college, did have 2 therapie sessions and hes another guy

I get its about healing ... and not succumb to pain and trauma ... but all he did need is school and some sleepovers. Its weird

 

[Ottoeight]

Spoiler: Ocean, on Discord

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Guys, you are arguing over "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin". The game's development will never reach that far.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

how many angels can dance on the head of a pin

 

[Joshuam303]

Agree.
About Bella, if she was the only real LI, I could get it. But there are many characters who are on her level. Without being a harem game, it will be tough to realize it. (We know that it will be not a harem, Ocean said it himself)
Bella and Nami are now two characters who are most developed. If Ocean spend so much time for other characters, this will go AWAM route fast. I know that Bella fans will go ballistic if they don't have Bella in one or two updates. Nami fans too. And if Ocean makes all characters on same level, it will become worst than AWAM.
I really hope Ocean has a plan to develop it at good speed. Faster is always better, but if he can (after last rework is finished) maintain his tempo from today, we're good. If he can cut 3-4 weeks, even better.
Ocean isn't a bad developer, he can make story credible, his ability for details is probably one level up comparable to other devs. And his renders and animations are just unbelievable... It's hard to compare him to other developers, few of then have such a level of animations.

I really hope he has time for all of the routes. For me I love Victoria and I am also disabled so I feel kinship with her and want to see good things happen for her. Like ending up with the protagonist.

 

[rudy007]

I really hope he has time for all of the routes. For me I love Victoria and I am also disabled so I feel kinship with her and want to see good things happen for her. Like ending up with the protagonist.

We all hope. Game is great. Played it from the first version. (before rework)
I hope Victoria will get better. One of games where it is tough to choose a girl (or woman). Ocean made for every one a girl. or more...

 

[Donettes]

But he has some valid points i think we discussed aswell time ago. He has this crtique because he has to change mid development.. and i think its fair to do it. His older game had similar issues with rereleasing chapters which does alienate current fans of his work .. and if the product fails to generate enough new ones .. youre cutting yourself . I think without the changes of the story .. just the better renders he would be on the first page of the filtered "by rating" games here which is a shame because he belongs there.

Ofc you can argue the good old "its his vision he can do whatever he whats" and its somewhat true.. he will do whatever he wants but many ppl see the game worse (writing). but changing charactermodels, and have a mc which considered letting vic die to chapter 4,5 he cuddles and let girls sleep on him did not give credit to his trauma. He did suffer for years and now he is in some days in college, did have 2 therapie sessions and hes another guy

I get its about healing ... and not succumb to pain and trauma ... but all he did need is school and some sleepovers. Its weird

He forced himself into isolation, and now he's forcing himself out of that shell, trying to get back to being the person he really can be. But he's doing it so fast that he's burning out in the process, as shown by his recurring panic attacks (now I don't remember how many of them are "canon" and how many are a consequence of our choices, but the more social exposure he gets the more attacks he suffers). Even Nami has been reminding him for a couple of chapters now that he needs to take it easier. And look, I don't deny that it might be rash to go in a few weeks from having cold/dark thoughts like the one you said to someone seemingly normal, but at the end of the day his current attitude is just another shell to counter the original one. The rework is not perfect, but beyond personal tastes it's been a success. The upward support he receives on Patreon proves it.

And about the rating, I mean... the game still has no sex scenes and only recently started to have suggestive ones. You can't expect such a game to be in the top top on this site.

 

[idontdreamwhenisleep69]

He forced himself into isolation, and now he's forcing himself out of that shell, trying to get back to being the person he really can be. But he's doing it so fast that he's burning out in the process, as shown by his recurring panic attacks (now I don't remember how many of them are "canon" and how many are a consequence of our choices, but the more social exposure he gets the more attacks he suffers). Even Nami has been reminding him for a couple of chapters now that he needs to take it easier. And look, I don't deny that it might be rash to go in a few weeks from having cold/dark thoughts like the one you said to someone seemingly normal, but at the end of the day his current attitude is just another shell to counter the original one. The rework is not perfect, but beyond personal tastes it's been a success. The upward support he receives on Patreon proves it.

And about the rating, I mean... the game still has no sex scenes and only recently started to have suggestive ones. You can't expect such a game to be in the top top on this site.

Another thing to consider is the vast majority of the negative reviews are from early on with people complaining about the super edgy (prework) MC early on. SG is highly regarded, with a few detractors.

 

[Donettes]

Another thing to consider is the vast majority of the negative reviews are from early on with people complaining about the super edgy (prework) MC early on. SG is highly regarded, with a few detractors.

Yeah that too. "Cringe emo guy", "no sex scenes" and complaints about the poor quality of the pre-rework writing. From the latest reviews there are a few that still mention some of these things (especially the no sex part) but nowhere near that level.

 

[John972]

But he has some valid points i think we discussed aswell time ago. He has this crtique because he has to change mid development.. and i think its fair to do it. His older game had similar issues with rereleasing chapters which does alienate current fans of his work .. and if the product fails to generate enough new ones .. youre cutting yourself . I think without the changes of the story .. just the better renders he would be on the first page of the filtered "by rating" games here which is a shame because he belongs there.

Ofc you can argue the good old "its his vision he can do whatever he whats" and its somewhat true.. he will do whatever he wants but many ppl see the game worse (writing). but changing charactermodels, and have a mc which considered letting vic die to chapter 4,5 he cuddles and let girls sleep on him did not give credit to his trauma. He did suffer for years and now he is in some days in college, did have 2 therapie sessions and hes another guy

I get its about healing ... and not succumb to pain and trauma ... but all he did need is school and some sleepovers. Its weird

People go on about the original story as if it wasn't also full of head-scratching BS. The game is not perfect in any of its iterations. I get why people are mad/disappointed, but stand by my comment that this is more about that disappointment than any real "nosedive in dialogue quality."

AFAIK, all Ocean has done has brought the goal posts closer together in terms of the range of potential MC behaviors.

To paraphrase Ocean, in the newer version, the MC's behavior can range from:

a boy who managed to get his head out of his ass

to

a cocky jerk ... snorting coke from Miss Hill's ass

In the older version it was:

a boy who managed to get his head out of his ass

to

someone ready to shoot up his college with an AR-15

In a few days in college and 2 therapy sessions, the MC has gone from a traumatized youth who just spent the last year holed-up in his bedroom to a traumatized youth being forced to interact with the outside world again.

If you think he's solely fucked up because of Summer's disappearance, then you've missed some important plot points. His current time in college is like his previous time in High School (well AFTER Summer's disappearance) but with a lot less fighting and more forced effort at socializing. The MC attends the sleepover 'cause Nami's there. You can play it where nothing happens, something lost on most people 'cause they want to see the lewds. 'just like most people don't play the overall "stay traumatized/don't socialize" route, 'cause it's boring.

 

[yossa999]

Guys, you are arguing over "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin". The game's development will never reach that far.

Don't you worry, we're already there in our heads, so it's okay, we're just syncing our delusions.

 

[WastedTalent]

Another thing to consider is the vast majority of the negative reviews are from early on with people complaining about the super edgy (prework) MC early on. SG is highly regarded, with a few detractors.

I honestly preferred the original darker version.

 

[yossa999]

But he has some valid points i think we discussed aswell time ago. He has this crtique because he has to change mid development.. and i think its fair to do it. His older game had similar issues with rereleasing chapters which does alienate current fans of his work .. and if the product fails to generate enough new ones .. youre cutting yourself . I think without the changes of the story .. just the better renders he would be on the first page of the filtered "by rating" games here which is a shame because he belongs there.

Ofc you can argue the good old "its his vision he can do whatever he whats" and its somewhat true.. he will do whatever he wants but many ppl see the game worse (writing). but changing charactermodels, and have a mc which considered letting vic die to chapter 4,5 he cuddles and let girls sleep on him did not give credit to his trauma. He did suffer for years and now he is in some days in college, did have 2 therapie sessions and hes another guy

I get its about healing ... and not succumb to pain and trauma ... but all he did need is school and some sleepovers. Its weird

Although your reproaches are true in many points, this works both ways. Why don't you take into account the fact that there is a long distance in terms of feelings and emotions between the MC who's rambling this nonsense about letting the suffering stranger die to escape living the life in pain and the MC who went through a series of deep emotional moments with Vic and developed a true bond of trust and friendship with her (hospital, his promise to her, her revelations about being bullied)? And this isn't the first time this scene has come up to prove that the MC is a crazy maniac at that moment. He may be on the edge, but he still struggles with it. How did you guys even read it as he was seriously going to let Vic die, have you all been bitten by Marla? Isn't it obvious that he was echoing his dark thoughts as he inspecting Vic. "I live in pain and suffering, I want to end this -> She will live in pain and suffering, maybe it's better to let her go." But his actions say otherwise, he tries to help her the best he can (questionable efforts, but that's not the point). While the adult and supposedly responsible Marla runs around in circles waving her gun.
And besides school and some sleepovers, he constantly pushed himself into social interactions, although at first he was mostly faking it (read the new dialogue with Nami in his room after his first day of college). But meeting new people and being involved in their lives seems to have caused a change in his attitude towards himself and others.
Were the changes too fast? I think everyone has their own pace in this matter. I remember that Richard Bandler, the co-founder of neuro-linguistic programming wrote something about how the brain learns quickly: "...And change doesn't need to be slow or painful. If you can learn to create something as sophisticated as a phobia, fear or compulsion, you can learn to use the same ability to do something different in the same situations." Maybe Nika's willingness to constantly push himself to connect with people is that "something different" that caused a fast change in his state of mind and is the key to his healing.

 

[Kassandara]

I honestly preferred the original darker version.

Ocean recently said that he now has plans for one dark route (as far as I understood it has something to do with Bella only). Of course, as always, it's not 100% confirmed. So maybe we will get something

 

[SweatyDevil]

Ocean recently said that he now has plans for one dark route (as far as I understood it has something to do with Bella only). Of course, as always, it's not 100% confirmed. So maybe we will get something

dark route...Bella path...Ehh why i'm getting Deadpool strapon flashbacks??

 

[MangoTree]

So i just started playing the game, in chapter 2 mc mentions that she interrupted Sai talking to Nami but that never happened in my playthrough.

I tried a few different routes but there is no scene where you meet Sai before the fight in the audtorium. bug?

 

[squares]

So i just started playing the game, in chapter 2 mc mentions that she interrupted Sai talking to Nami but that never happened in my playthrough.

I tried a few different routes but there is no scene where you meet Sai before the fight in the audtorium. bug?

I wanted to ask that question too, but after reading this thread for a while, I figured that current ch2 is a mess due to ongoing rework.

 

[Orgitas]

I wanted to ask that question too, but after reading this thread for a while, I figured that current ch2 is a mess due to ongoing rework.

Chapter 2 has improved in 4.5 Final over 4.5 beta. Quite a bit of it was still in it in the beta. Gave a sneak peak on how meh the renders were and how terrible the writing was before the revisions. Fortunately it isn't like that, so much, in the 4.5 final (a lot of it has been updated). However, come 5.0 all the scenes in chapter 2 should be fully updated.

 

[John972]

So i just started playing the game, in chapter 2 mc mentions that she interrupted Sai talking to Nami but that never happened in my playthrough.

I tried a few different routes but there is no scene where you meet Sai before the fight in the audtorium. bug?

I wanted to ask that question too, but after reading this thread for a while, I figured that current ch2 is a mess due to ongoing rework.

Chapter 2 has improved in 4.5 Final over 4.5 beta. Quite a bit of it was still in it in the beta. Gave a sneak peak on how meh the renders were and how terrible the writing was before the revisions. Fortunately it isn't like that, so much, in the 4.5 final (a lot of it has been updated). However, come 5.0 all the scenes in chapter 2 should be fully updated.

Yeah, there's still a lot of legacy stuff from the second half of the original CH 2 that hasn't been reworked yet...

Spoiler: Original (now deleted) scene from CH 2 Beta

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...for shits & giggles, the original spliff-lovin' Summer (who looked more like 16-to-17-year-old trailer trash, not the well-to-do 13-to-14-year-old of the rework)

Spoiler: Summer

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