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Zeniks1895

Newbie
Jul 30, 2021
50
163
Aren't you forgetting that from Vanessa's perspective, Bella approached her, trying to pull her into Bella's intrigue and use her? She realized that fast and played a brainless bimbo to find out more about what Bella's game and goal are and how exactly is she trying to use her. Why the hell should she be honest or even friendly towards people who are trying to use her?

You are calling it deceitful, I call it smart and totally fair move against deceitful and manipulative people.

Bella was the deceitful one there, don't forget that simply because you like Bella.



We don't really know what her goal is with the games with the Holgerssons. Maybe she is using Mario, maybe Mario wants to be used? I'm not judging before I have more information.

The way she tested Nika's reactions may also have something to do with the connection between Bella and Nika. Vanessa still doesn't know what Bella wants and why, so maybe she was trying to see how easy it would be to manipulate Nika and get that information from Nika instead of Bella.
She is smart and won't let Bella and Nika simply to use her for their Holgersson games. I like that about her.

And she has been fairly friendly (as of pre 4.5 beta that I haven't played) towards the people who tried to manipulate her.
But she does deceive the people around her with her behaviour. She tried to trick MC too until she realised he was figuring her out. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It's a kind of trap from those who are trying to manipulate her (this pattern of behaviour is probably a result of past events related to her mother) and Bella fell into it.

Regarding the second point, I have yet to see anything in the game to justify her peculiar behaviour towards men.
Her trying to seduce the MC had nothing to do with Bella. She realises that the MC is connected to Bella only if you're on her root. The other way, the scene is the same but instead of dialogue about Bella, she suggests going to the shop on Wednesday to buy underwear for MC .
 

N1ghtcrawler

Member
May 29, 2023
148
2,711
The point that her treatment of Mario raises is that she is cruel and capricious. Sure Mario is weak, but she exploits his weakness for her own amusement. While going out with Mario, she undresses in front of Nika to see if she can seduce him, so very capricious and not loyal. Mario is her toy because he is weak, and she views all men as the weaker sex. She simply hasn't someone like Nika who can reject her. Currently this makes Nika a curiosity and someone she can't ignore - but ignoring her charms, he threatens her view of the world.

We all see what we interpret, based on our preferences. As far as insincerity, she was insincere and completely opaque with Bella - she played a bimbo and lulled Bella into a sense of false security. Nika realises she's playing Bella, and by extension, she's toying with him, hence all the questions about who he's interested in (if you're ona path already). But she is deceitful, there is no other way to explain how she acted towards Bella, and she is untrustworthy, seeking to cheat on Mario before a quick game of tennis.
I agree with almost everything you said. But she said that she sees most men as the weaker sex, not all of them. Whether she thinks that Nika is a bug in the system that needs to be fixed I have no idea. It's too early to judge, but we'll see.

As for insincerity, I only meant that she says what she really thinks. This does not mean that she in't manipulative and doesn't hide her real intentions.

I judge by what I have seen myself. We don't see Bella and Vanessa meeting. Bella might have formed a biased impression. If not, then it is obvious that Vanessa sensed something was wrong or already knew about Bella's intentions because there is no other explanation why she behaved differently with her. If she had been sincere with her, she would have shot herself in the foot. It's the same with Nika if he's on Bella's path. Besides, she was as sincere with him as possible in her situation. She openly let him know that she knew about his connection to Bella.

ps.
Saw the message of Patreon acquiring f95zone. Literally the best april fool's joke in my life lol.
 
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BobTheDuck

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2018
1,889
10,678
Aren't you forgetting that from Vanessa's perspective, Bella approached her, trying to pull her into Bella's intrigue and use her? She realized that fast and played a brainless bimbo to find out more about what Bella's game and goal are and how exactly is she trying to use her. Why the hell should she be honest or even friendly towards people who are trying to use her?

You are calling it deceitful, I call it smart and totally fair move against deceitful and manipulative people.

Bella was the deceitful one there, don't forget that simply because you like Bella.



We don't really know what her goal is with the games with the Holgerssons. Maybe she is using Mario, maybe Mario wants to be used? I'm not judging before I have more information.

The way she tested Nika's reactions may also have something to do with the connection between Bella and Nika. Vanessa still doesn't know what Bella wants and why, so maybe she was trying to see how easy it would be to manipulate Nika and get that information from Nika instead of Bella.
She is smart and won't let Bella and Nika simply to use her for their Holgersson games. I like that about her.

And she has been fairly friendly (as of pre 4.5 beta that I haven't played) towards the people who tried to manipulate her.
I agree with almost everything you said. But she said that she sees most men as the weaker sex, not all of them. Whether she thinks that Nika is a bug in the system that needs to be fixed I have no idea. It's too early to judge, but we'll see.

As for insincerity, I only meant that she says what she really thinks. This does not mean that she in't manipulative and doesn't hide her real intentions.

I judge by what I have seen myself. We don't see Bella and Vanessa meeting. Bella might have formed a biased impression. If not, then it is obvious that Vanessa sensed something was wrong or already knew about Bella's intentions because there is no other explanation why she behaved differently with her. If she had been sincere with her, she would have shot herself in the foot. It's the same with Nika if he's on Bella's path. Besides, she was as sincere with him as possible in her situation. She openly let him know that she knew about his connection to Bella.

ps.
Saw the message of Patreon acquiring f95zone. Literally the best april fool's joke in my life lol.
Responding together as you both make the same point. I'm not a Bella fan. Bella being deceptive does not make Vanessa's deception any less deceptive. Vanessa could have been honest and still called Bella out, Vanessa could have just not engaged with Bella, there are so many options to not be deceptive. Vanessa leads Bella on because she love mind games. It's not about tit for tat, responding to fire with fire or anything. Ethics is an independant status that we should hold to regardless of anyone else's two-faced antics. All Vanessa's behaviour towards Bella shows is that she like to play deceitful, manipulative games, which is 100% her character throughout the game. At the point that Vanessa meets Bella, how does she know why? We know why, but Vanessa defaults to ...something because she thinks Bella's someone she can leverage, without even knowing (at that point) why Bella's approaching her. If she does know, is she storing the information for future blackmail/leverage? She is not being transparent or sincere in her first interaction with Bella, regardless of Bella's intentions.

Similarly, there is no ethical way to justify how she exploits Mario's affection for her own purposes. She is blueballing him into wearing a buttplug, doesn't matter that she justifies it to herslef by also wearing one. She is manipulating him into doing something he would unlikely choose for himself by withholding sex, implying that if he submits to her antics, he'll get a reward. She's grooming him for her own amusement, while looking down on him. Is that the basis for a healthy, loving relationship? Sure, hold off sex if you're inclinded to treat it as something special, but leveraging it like that, knowing he would be ashamed if it got out (while telling people she's just met, please let it get out she thinks) while dangling a carrot of a reward - she actually cheapens their relationship. Sex becomes transactional, and a reward for how much he endures. And the first moment she meets Nika, she's attempting to seduce him and cheat on weak, faithful Mario, further abusing him. So she dumps Mario to be sincere? Or does she continue being manipulative and deceitful?

Even throwing out the knowledge of Mario's buttplug is a double game. She can test Nika and Nami's integrity to find out what kind of people they are - if rumours spread about Mario, she knows from where. She's a pretty stand up girlfriend :rolleyes: Nika would be wise to notice how she treates Mario as being her default mode of behaviour.

The fact that she is friendly is another misdirection. She knows Noji is important to Nick, so she is the dutiful host. Don't forget that she knows about Bella and Nika, but says "I don't think we share the same social circles" when Nika says he thinks he's seen her before. More misdirection. She triggers Zara to be more competitive towards Nika, then actively bets (the driver's license) against her while knowing what their mom did to Zara, belittling her own sister for the sake of a stranger she's just met - playing games with her sister's mental health.

She applies social darwinism to ther ethics, and that ubermensch mentality is something I despise. Weak people shouldn't be exploited even if we don't like them - or should Vic be exploited like Mario too? Or Damian? How does Nika respond as someone with crippled emotions? He supports Damian to further his own goals (well, baskets), and he has many choices to be kind to Vic, and it seems cruel to me not to take the chance to be supportive.

On the social darwinism, her "I'll never need to work, I'll see where life takes me" attitude also shows she's really entitled, and she's into Mario as a gold digger. Zara still has goals, Vanessa plans to float through life amusing herself at other's expense. If she doesn't go for Mario, does she just sponge of daddy Nick? Her plan for her future is to manipulate people so she can be indolent in her lifestyle.

Nika also doesn't judge Vanessa by what Bella's seen, which is why he calls her to call off interacting with Vanessa, because he realises how manipulative Vanessa is. But I still love this to describe her:

1.jpg

Shit, they really got me this time)
I am literally am too old for that kind of gag, even if I was born yesterday apparently....
 

White cat6

Newbie
Jan 21, 2024
83
63
Responding together as you both make the same point. I'm not a Bella fan. Bella being deceptive does not make Vanessa's deception any less deceptive. Vanessa could have been honest and still called Bella out, Vanessa could have just not engaged with Bella, there are so many options to not be deceptive. Vanessa leads Bella on because she love mind games. It's not about tit for tat, responding to fire with fire or anything. Ethics is an independant status that we should hold to regardless of anyone else's two-faced antics. All Vanessa's behaviour towards Bella shows is that she like to play deceitful, manipulative games, which is 100% her character throughout the game. At the point that Vanessa meets Bella, how does she know why? We know why, but Vanessa defaults to ...something because she thinks Bella's someone she can leverage, without even knowing (at that point) why Bella's approaching her. If she does know, is she storing the information for future blackmail/leverage? She is not being transparent or sincere in her first interaction with Bella, regardless of Bella's intentions.

Similarly, there is no ethical way to justify how she exploits Mario's affection for her own purposes. She is blueballing him into wearing a buttplug, doesn't matter that she justifies it to herslef by also wearing one. She is manipulating him into doing something he would unlikely choose for himself by withholding sex, implying that if he submits to her antics, he'll get a reward. She's grooming him for her own amusement, while looking down on him. Is that the basis for a healthy, loving relationship? Sure, hold off sex if you're inclinded to treat it as something special, but leveraging it like that, knowing he would be ashamed if it got out (while telling people she's just met, please let it get out she thinks) while dangling a carrot of a reward - she actually cheapens their relationship. Sex becomes transactional, and a reward for how much he endures. And the first moment she meets Nika, she's attempting to seduce him and cheat on weak, faithful Mario, further abusing him. So she dumps Mario to be sincere? Or does she continue being manipulative and deceitful?

Even throwing out the knowledge of Mario's buttplug is a double game. She can test Nika and Nami's integrity to find out what kind of people they are - if rumours spread about Mario, she knows from where. She's a pretty stand up girlfriend :rolleyes: Nika would be wise to notice how she treates Mario as being her default mode of behaviour.

The fact that she is friendly is another misdirection. She knows Noji is important to Nick, so she is the dutiful host. Don't forget that she knows about Bella and Nika, but says "I don't think we share the same social circles" when Nika says he thinks he's seen her before. More misdirection. She triggers Zara to be more competitive towards Nika, then actively bets (the driver's license) against her while knowing what their mom did to Zara, belittling her own sister for the sake of a stranger she's just met - playing games with her sister's mental health.

She applies social darwinism to ther ethics, and that ubermensch mentality is something I despise. Weak people shouldn't be exploited even if we don't like them - or should Vic be exploited like Mario too? Or Damian? How does Nika respond as someone with crippled emotions? He supports Damian to further his own goals (well, baskets), and he has many choices to be kind to Vic, and it seems cruel to me not to take the chance to be supportive.

On the social darwinism, her "I'll never need to work, I'll see where life takes me" attitude also shows she's really entitled, and she's into Mario as a gold digger. Zara still has goals, Vanessa plans to float through life amusing herself at other's expense. If she doesn't go for Mario, does she just sponge of daddy Nick? Her plan for her future is to manipulate people so she can be indolent in her lifestyle.

Nika also doesn't judge Vanessa by what Bella's seen, which is why he calls her to call off interacting with Vanessa, because he realises how manipulative Vanessa is. But I still love this to describe her:

View attachment 3497856



I am literally am too old for that kind of gag, even if I was born yesterday apparently....
Funny. Vanessa and Bella are a couple. They work together. And Vanessa is in charge. Vanessa's target is not Mario, but Stefan himself. Vanessa plans to seduce him. When Amber gets ready to go visit the Holgersons, Bella is not angry because Stefan might seduce Amber. She is worried that when Amber sees Vanessa, she will understand what is happening and will interfere with Vanessa. Vanessa is at a level where she can say that money is not the main thing. For Vanessa, money is not a goal but a means to achieve goals, and believe me, she is very active and will not go with the flow.
About seducing Nika. Remember Sasha's feature? Vanessa is exactly the same. Remember when Coach Hill sent Nika to stretch with Sasha? It’s possible that Coach Hill doesn’t know Sasha’s peculiarities, but the person who asked him to do it knows for sure. After warming up, Ayua comes up and casually looks at Niki’s penis. Accidentally? Or is she checking to see if he is aroused? After some time, Vanessa tries to "seduce" Nika. In fact, Vanessa is testing whether her “charm” is working on Nika. Nika and Sasha are extremely important elements of Vanessa’s plan, but so far she can’t do anything next to Nik Nozhdi. That's why the "dormitory" plan came into being. His goal is to get Nika and Nami out of Noji's protection.
 
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imzahai

Active Member
Apr 19, 2019
948
1,284
Funny. Vanessa and Bella are a couple. They work together. And Vanessa is in charge. Vanessa's target is not Mario, but Stefan himself. Vanessa plans to seduce him. When Amber gets ready to go visit the Holgersons, Bella is not angry because Stefan might seduce Amber. She is worried that when Amber sees Vanessa, she will understand what is happening and will interfere with Vanessa. Vanessa is at a level where she can say that money is not the main thing. For Vanessa, money is not a goal but a means to achieve goals, and believe me, she is very active and will not go with the flow.
About seducing Nika. Remember Sasha's feature? Vanessa is exactly the same. Remember when Coach Hill sent Nika to stretch with Sasha? It’s possible that Coach Hill doesn’t know Sasha’s peculiarities, but the person who asked him to do it knows for sure. After warming up, Ayua comes up and casually looks at Niki’s penis. Accidentally? Or is she checking to see if he is aroused? After some time, Vanessa tries to "seduce" Nika. In fact, Vanessa is testing whether her “charm” is working on Nika. Nika and Sasha are extremely important elements of Vanessa’s plan, but so far she can’t do anything next to Nik Nozhdi. That's why the "dormitory" plan came into being. His goal is to get Nika and Nami out of Noji's protection.
Ayua is checking his penis because they all just got done talking about it in the changing area and they are teenage girls, so it would still be something on the mind because of the subject matter.
same reason she asked Bella if she had any dick pix.
 

White cat6

Newbie
Jan 21, 2024
83
63
Ayua is checking his penis because they all just got done talking about it in the changing area and they are teenage girls, so it would still be something on the mind because of the subject matter.
same reason she asked Bella if she had any dick pix.
This is Ocean's genius. He gives you a simple answer and you accept it. In fact, his simple answer is not always correct. For example, many see Ayua as the daughter of Mira and Willy. In reality this is not the case. But wait and see.
 

imzahai

Active Member
Apr 19, 2019
948
1,284
This is Ocean's genius. He gives you a simple answer and you accept it. In fact, his simple answer is not always correct. For example, many see Ayua as the daughter of Mira and Willy. In reality this is not the case. But wait and see.
share with us your great knowledge of the family tree of Zane.

because logic and evidence all point to Miru, or her sister [possibly another relative] and... William or his Father, as the ONLY 2 male options available. especially when Ayua said her Aunt Katie [will's sister]
 
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AlexFXR

Member
Sep 24, 2023
408
668
Once this game is completed I will gladly pay for it, until that happens I will download it here.
Well, you are a cunning one. The game will be made for at least another 27 years.:ROFLMAO:
Forcing your Patreon members to buy the game on Steam when they're already paying for it is wild
Ocean has a talent for finding trouble. If everything goes as you say, then just a giant wave of crap will rise.:poop:
 

White cat6

Newbie
Jan 21, 2024
83
63
share with us your great knowledge of the family tree of Zane.

because logic and evidence all point to Ayua, or her sister [possibly another relative] and... William or his Father, as the ONLY 2 male options available. especially when Ayua said her Aunt Katie [will's sister]
As I say The simplest answer. Ocean doesn't work that way. The answer may be the most unexpected.
Try to answer the following questions for yourself, the answers to which you consider the only correct ones:
A. Is it only Willie's children who can call Katie Auntie?
b. Is it only natural children who can call their mother’s sister aunt?
 

Deleted member 6168082

Active Member
Jun 5, 2023
927
1,403
Bella/MC dialogues are really well done. You could feel Bella's feelings boiling over at MC's ignorance...
Hmm, I don't know if you can "feel" what a rendered model "feels" because they don't "feel" anything at all. You are the one "feeling" the feels you feel because of the words that were written and your mind + soul putting the words into a feeling you, yourself understands.

I just spewed some stuff, did it make sense? I will never know.
 

BobTheDuck

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2018
1,889
10,678
As I say The simplest answer. Ocean doesn't work that way. The answer may be the most unexpected.
Try to answer the following questions for yourself, the answers to which you consider the only correct ones:
A. Is it only Willie's children who can call Katie Auntie?
b. Is it only natural children who can call their mother’s sister aunt?
A: No, even Kat or Lucas's children would probably call Katie aunt, rather than second aunt. But for a female Zane to be Ayua's mother requires an asian father, which is nowhere visible yet. There are currently two asians in WiaB that we know, so Willi or Lucas would have to be the father with current information to call Katie an aunt, but only Willi if she's a Zane. If Dylan was the father, Katie would be a sister.
B: No, but I doubt Ocean will go that eastern eurocentric, as not all his players are culturally similar, and a vast portion are western, who don't call family friends uncles etc. She could be adopted, but there is no information in the story to suggest that.

Be honest, you just don't like the idea of Miru and Willi :sneaky:

Jokes aside, in regards your convoluted theory where almost everyone is playing the Truman Show with Nika as Truman: as much as I over think things, I'm conviced you are better at overthinking things than me. I'm not going to say you're wrong, because time will tell, but Occam's Razor is quite useful. I have a tendency to over complicate things myself. Your theories depend on massive assumptions based on information that no one else is noticing in the story: if you make such claims, provide the evidence from the current script so we can check it out, it is easy to do. I am happy to discuss theories after all, but without any reference to the proof of these claims, it's really hard to see where you're deriving all this from. Post the screens with explanations, or copy/paste from the script, give us a handle to understand what you're seeing so we can actually discuss it rationally.

share with us your great knowledge of the family tree of Zane.

because logic and evidence all point to Ayua, or her sister [possibly another relative] and... William or his Father, as the ONLY 2 male options available. especially when Ayua said her Aunt Katie [will's sister]
I think you meant 'Miru, or her sister'. For Ayua to be Dylan's daughter, Katie would be her sister, not her aunt. The only cases for Ayua to be Katie's niece are adoption, Willi as father with an asian mother or Leia as mother with an asian father. Lucas, Kat or Joe are out as potential parents, as they're not Zane's but whatever name Joe's family goes by: Helen is Zane by marriage, Scarlet is Helen's sister. Or it could be one of those randoms mentioned by Kat at the farm while on the hay, but that's an incredibly long bow to draw (most likely called some form of cousin then?)
 
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yossa999

Engaged Member
Dec 5, 2020
2,401
16,163
A: No, even Kat or Lucas's children would probably call Katie aunt, rather than second aunt. But for a female Zane to be Ayua's mother requires an asian father, which is nowhere visible yet. There are currently two asians in WiaB that we know, so Willi or Lucas would have to be the father with current information to call Katie an aunt, but only Willi if she's a Zane. If Dylan was the father, Katie would be a sister.
B: No, but I doubt Ocean will go that eastern eurocentric, as not all his players are culturally similar, and a vast portion are western, who don't call family friends uncles etc. She could be adopted, but there is no information in the story to suggest that.

Be honest, you just don't like the idea of Miru and Willi :sneaky:

Jokes aside, in regards your convoluted theory where almost everyone is playing the Truman Show with Nika as Truman: as much as I over think things, I'm conviced you are better at overthinking things than me. I'm not going to say you're wrong, because time will tell, but Occam's Razor is quite useful. I have a tendency to over complicate things myself. Your theories depend on massive assumptions based on information that no one else is noticing in the story: if you make such claims, provide the evidence from the current script so we can check it out, it is easy to do. I am happy to discuss theories after all, but without any reference to the proof of these claims, it's really hard to see where you're deriving all this from. Post the screens with explanations, or copy/paste from the script, give us a handle to understand what you're seeing so we can actually discuss it rationally.
I think point B implies that Ayua may be an adopted child.

Anyway, these all are conclusions from the theory that Sasha is Summer. :illuminati:
popcorn.gif
 

BobTheDuck

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2018
1,889
10,678
I think point B implies that Ayua may be an adopted child.

Anyway, these all are conclusions from the theory that Sasha is Summer. :illuminati:
View attachment 3498485
Sure, but if there's a theory, nominally there is some evidence provided to support the hypothesis. It's really hard to see this angle when it's offered with no supporting material, I prefer to look for things in the game.
 

John972

Active Member
Apr 24, 2018
975
3,195
This is Ocean's genius. He gives you a simple answer and you accept it. In fact, his simple answer is not always correct. For example, many see Ayua as the daughter of Mira and Willy. In reality this is not the case. But wait and see.

Ayua is a Zane, leaving Willi or Leia being a parent (thus making Katie an auntie).

Ayua learnt her families' secret fighting style, which, by the brief descriptions given, is IDENTICAL to Miru's families' secret fighting style. Miru has stated that the secret can only be passed down through her family.

The only realistic scenario where Willi and Miru are not Ayua's parents is Miru having a brother or sister or cousin introduced later in WIAB (one that produces offspring with a Zane). Considering no such characters have surfaced in WIAB, your statement, "In reality this is not the case," is rather definitive for a theory unencumbered by the burden of evidence.
 
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White cat6

Newbie
Jan 21, 2024
83
63
A: No, even Kat or Lucas's children would probably call Katie aunt, rather than second aunt. But for a female Zane to be Ayua's mother requires an asian father, which is nowhere visible yet. There are currently two asians in WiaB that we know, so Willi or Lucas would have to be the father with current information to call Katie an aunt, but only Willi if she's a Zane. If Dylan was the father, Katie would be a sister.
B: No, but I doubt Ocean will go that eastern eurocentric, as not all his players are culturally similar, and a vast portion are western, who don't call family friends uncles etc. She could be adopted, but there is no information in the story to suggest that.

Be honest, you just don't like the idea of Miru and Willi :sneaky:

Jokes aside, in regards your convoluted theory where almost everyone is playing the Truman Show with Nika as Truman: as much as I over think things, I'm conviced you are better at overthinking things than me. I'm not going to say you're wrong, because time will tell, but Occam's Razor is quite useful. I have a tendency to over complicate things myself. Your theories depend on massive assumptions based on information that no one else is noticing in the story: if you make such claims, provide the evidence from the current script so we can check it out, it is easy to do. I am happy to discuss theories after all, but without any reference to the proof of these claims, it's really hard to see where you're deriving all this from. Post the screens with explanations, or copy/paste from the script, give us a handle to understand what you're seeing so we can actually discuss it rationally.



I think you meant 'Miru, or her sister'. For Ayua to be Dylan's daughter, Katie would be her sister, not her aunt. The only cases for Ayua to be Katie's niece are adoption, Willi as father with an asian mother or Leia as mother with an asian father. Lucas, Kat or Joe are out as potential parents, as they're not Zane's but whatever name Joe's family goes by: Helen is Zane by marriage, Scarlet is Helen's sister. Or it could be one of those randoms mentioned by Kat at the farm while on the hay, but that's an incredibly long bow to draw (most likely called some form of cousin then?)
I’m too lazy to write you an answer, but you and I have already discussed this topic and I’ve already told you how Ayua could be Katie’s niece and who her mother is. If you want, look at the old comments.
 
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