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I'm not demanding anything... you are correct in pointing out there's a lot of shitty games sold on Steam, and guess what? Everyone calls them out for being shit.
It's not about not allowing them to sell, they're free to do so... but if it's shit, then it's shit... why should we give Ocean a pass and not all those other shitty games?
I completely disagree with that... an AVN market saturation due to a ton of crappy AI generated, or just plain bad AVNs doesn't help anyone at all.
Did George RR Martin ever finish Winds of Winter or did he choke on a hot dog before he got it done?
And speaking of which, I finally downloaded the damned thing to check it out... and yeah, not impressed so far (I'm at the gym with Bella part, so not done yet).
6 years of development and endless remakes, changes and tweaks to renders, story and dialogues, and the game STILL has typos and it STILL reads like it's badly translated, with a ton of just weird dialogues.
Oh and also, STILL the same basic bitch renpy UI. STILL the same ugly-ass text-box that covers a third of the screen (imagine having some of the best renders in the genre and covering them with that shit), STILL the same vanilla renpy font, with no shadow or outline... STILL the same base renpy choice-button visuals... STILL the same ugly main menu screen with mis-aligned and mis-fitting buttons with jagged edges.
Right now my only question is: What the fuck has Ocean been doing all this time? Even shit-tier AVNs put in the effort to at least customize the UI for fuck's sake... like, this is some very basic stuff, for real... Is this really a product worth defending tooth and nail as if it were one of the best AVNs out there?
Well, like I said, not impressed right now... It's really disappointing that he's taken sooo much time to "prepare for a Steam release" and this is what he released.
6 years of development and endless remakes, changes and tweaks to renders, story and dialogues, and the game STILL has typos and it STILL reads like it's badly translated, with a ton of just weird dialogues.
Oh and also, STILL the same basic bitch renpy UI. STILL the same ugly-ass text-box that covers a third of the screen (imagine having some of the best renders in the genre and covering them with that shit), STILL the same vanilla renpy font, with no shadow or outline... STILL the same base renpy choice-button visuals... STILL the same ugly main menu screen with mis-aligned and mis-fitting buttons with jagged edges.
Right now my only question is: What the fuck has Ocean been doing all this time? Even shit-tier AVNs put in the effort to at least customize the UI for fuck's sake... like, this is some very basic stuff, for real... Is this really a product worth defending tooth and nail as if it were one of the best AVNs out there?
Well, like I said, not impressed right now... It's really disappointing that he's taken sooo much time to "prepare for a Steam release" and this is what he released.
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- Dec 24, 2018
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There doesn't have to be any consensus on everything. I can enjoy SG without agreeing with all Ocean's decisions. I can also enjoy SG while still having criticisms of the game, even if it didn't have grammar issues. I also don't have to like every game based on peer pressure or rating. I can like all the games that subjectively appeal to me. You do the same I'm sure. Everyone has their own list of guilty pleasure games, that they like for nostalgia or some other dumb reason.
A game doesn't have to be critically approved by others for me to enjoy it. All that does is show that I have no opinion about my own tastes. A games review score is made up of individual tastes covering a full spectrum. I am not extra medium and neither are you: so point to these universally panned games without one even moderate review. There is difference in opinion on everything. Other people's tastes don't translate well with what I enjoy on the whole. What a game is rated *might* influence my decision to play it or buy it, but the thing that influences me to play are the previews and the blurb.
Cultivating a few elite games also doesn't help the AVN market. Do you believe monopolies result in better development (or more marketplace choices), or competition? If dev's have to work hard to stand out, chances are that a lot of those shittier games will end up disappearing. SG and WiaB do stand out. Do they live up to their hype? Not yet. I'd say WiaB lives up to more currently than SG, but both have a long process ahead. If someone does or doesn't have the patience to wait, well, that's really their choice isn't it? There's no objective quality in that choice, just subjective opinions and personal taste.
I may not remember that scene at all but im glad cause I welcome any Nami spanking
Yeah, I'll try to be as nice as possible here: There's a reason why I didn't reply to you earlier. Let's leave it at that...
Nobody forces you to give him a pass, if you dislike SG and don’t want to play it (anymore) because you think it’s „shitty“, there’s nobody stopping you.
I give Ocean a pass because I don’t think it’s „shitty“ it’s among my fav 20 AVNs.
I couldn’t give less of a shit about a lot of the things which annoy you (like basic renpy menu, I even prefer it over customized ones) for example. Everyone is different.
And you can’t be serious about your last point, more AVNs being made and funded leads automatically to more good avns being made. That’s pretty basic logic.
If nobody gets funding to produce quality avns we would end up with a market of low effort, low quality ai shit, not the other way around.
- Dec 24, 2018
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Okay thenYeah, I'll try to be as nice as possible here: There's a reason why I didn't reply to you earlier. Let's leave it at that...
I just wanted to say I really liked the way you worded this post it's so true. Your post kind of relates to my experience playing games in general especially when I read reviews. I've played countless of AVN's on this site many see issues with or dislike but I don't. But im able to easily find personal enjoyment easier / the good in them more than most people I feel like. Which is probably why ive only dropped maybe 2 AVN's out of the 96 ive played.
Summers Gone is actually a perfect example of this. If I think critically about the game I can see things I dislike about SG that would normally prevent me considering it a S or A tier AVN on my personal list and would probably land in the middle or so of my list. But then there is small things I enjoy the hell out of in SG like the characters , the character interactions and comedy that makes any issues I have with the game seem like a nitpick or a non issue because of how much I enjoy those small things. As I always say personal enjoyment is more important than the quality of a AVN. After all you can enjoy shit and know it's shit but it's still really enjoyable to the point that it becomes a favorite.
- Dec 24, 2018
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I'm still out of reacts, so
We don't play these games to brag about what we've played, we play for personal satisfaction. If people aren't satisfied, they should seek to get their money back
I'm personally interested in the story, and I want to find out where it goes. I've pirated over 300 games off this site like a complete sponge, at least half of which I'm yet to play; some games just don't engage me even if other people think they're great, other ones which seem a bit shit I still enjoy while knowing they're just a guilty pleasure, some are underrated... it's all my opinion in action. No one validates my playthroughs.No one's going to write my epitaph and say, "well, shit, he only played the BEST games, wow what a guy." This is not only a niche enjoyment, it's completely optional, and there's no rewards for playing the 'right' games.
- Oct 1, 2023
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Due to the fact that I haven't been part of this "honorable club" for that long, I logically have a completely different perspective than the "old-timers".
Therefore, I want to limit my conclusion to what we have in front of us at the moment.
Question one: Is this version worth downloading?
Partly, partly. It is and remains the same story. You can download and play them, but you don't have to. What I can say is that it's definitely worth playing through again, because chapters two and three in particular have received some significant changes. Not only have new scenes been added or omitted, but the dialogue has also changed. Some things are now logically clearer, and some things, in the "Ocean style", are blurrier. The renderings now fit seamlessly into the very high overall level of quality, making it a real feast for the eyes and ears. It's a real treat to play through it again (for the nth time).
Question two: Is it worth buying the Steam version or later the Patreon version?
Well, here I say that everyone has to decide for themselves. I don't want to and won't comment on it here. What I can completely understand is that some supporters from days gone by are pretty “angry” (to say the least) with Ocean.
Question three: Should you support Ocean in the future?
A definite YES, BUT, as much as I'm sorry, ONLY NOW! What Ocean threw at our feet with S1, people, is unparalleled! The anticipation for S2 is huge and even more so given the fact that S2 is already in the works.
My conclusion is that SG is a house number that other VNs have to measure themselves against!
Therefore, I want to limit my conclusion to what we have in front of us at the moment.
Question one: Is this version worth downloading?
Partly, partly. It is and remains the same story. You can download and play them, but you don't have to. What I can say is that it's definitely worth playing through again, because chapters two and three in particular have received some significant changes. Not only have new scenes been added or omitted, but the dialogue has also changed. Some things are now logically clearer, and some things, in the "Ocean style", are blurrier. The renderings now fit seamlessly into the very high overall level of quality, making it a real feast for the eyes and ears. It's a real treat to play through it again (for the nth time).
Question two: Is it worth buying the Steam version or later the Patreon version?
Well, here I say that everyone has to decide for themselves. I don't want to and won't comment on it here. What I can completely understand is that some supporters from days gone by are pretty “angry” (to say the least) with Ocean.
Question three: Should you support Ocean in the future?
A definite YES, BUT, as much as I'm sorry, ONLY NOW! What Ocean threw at our feet with S1, people, is unparalleled! The anticipation for S2 is huge and even more so given the fact that S2 is already in the works.
My conclusion is that SG is a house number that other VNs have to measure themselves against!
Having watched this rework saga unfold since 2021:
1. Ocean began reworking the original game. By original game, I am referring to Chs 1 to 3.5.
Ch 4 was the first full chapter to feature visuals of the quality they are now. The quality of the visuals (and some of the writing) in those early chapters was very poor compared to now.
This rework was a long and drawn out process. He said that process is finished with the release of Season 1 (personally, I'd have no problem if Ocean reworked renders in Chs 3 and 3.5 to bring everything up to that Ch 4 quality. Instead, he drew a line under everything and put a disclaimer with the Steam release explaining why the Ch 3 and 3.5 renders look different to the rest).
2. A Music licensing agency pulled the plug on AVN developers with little warning. Some musicians also barred their work being used with adult content. This was a wake-up call for all AVN developers (many games seen on F95 were affected by the music licensing fiasco) and now we have Patreon doing a similar thing with little warning (witness WIAB getting pulled from Patreon). In terms of SG, loosing music licenses absolutely screwed several existing cinematics in SG, which were designed and synced around specific music tracks. This required reworks of existing material because it was forced via a third-party service provider, NOT because Ocean wanted to do it.
3. Ocean decided to keep his existing music in the game. This caused a rethink of the content in what is now Season 1 because Ocean did not want to risk loosing those existing music licenses (see the first two sentences of 2. above). Again, This required modification or removal of existing material because it was forced via a third-party service provider, NOT because Ocean wanted to do it.
Any argument that Ocean should have just ditched the music is meaningless. SG is designed to be an audio-visual experience and Ocean is sticking to that.
4. Then we get the Steam restrictions. Yes, Ocean made the choice to market the game on Steam and to market it specifically in his home country. This meant Ocean had to make further changes to comply with a third-party service provider. This was made easier because of changes already required to compile with music licensing. Several knowledgeable people in this thread have previously explained the importance of a German Steam release for SG (including Ocean having a major fan base in that country).
Point 1. above is about the rework Ocean wanted to make. Points 2. to 4. above are about the reworks Ocean needed to make because of third-party restrictions.
You ARE making predictions for what may or may not happen going forward into Season 2 by prescribing all the reasons for the reworks solely to Ocean's alleged OCD. No Developer can easily plan for what happened with 2, 3, and to a lesser extent 4. above.
You prescribe future actions on reworks, despite Ocean declaring that the major three-year game rework is over with the completion of Season 1.
Without all the facts surrounding decisions made by the Developer and without seeing the consequences of these decisions one or two years from now, who the f^^k are we to rush to judgement on the quality of those decisions. I am trying to reserve any judgement or conclusions for the future.
Like I said, let's see where everything is at by this time next year.
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- Sep 24, 2023
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Why is this nonsense? This is the custom on Patreon; everyone who makes reworks is called milkmaids. People on Patreon have already encountered developers who constantly postpone the release of new chapters due to reworks. Such dishonest developers only took money, but did not develop their games, so they began to be called milkmen. Doesn't remind you of anything? Ocean's plot has been stagnant without development for several years now, so people stop believing him. They have every right to do so.Than Ocean is(was) working on SG reworks, planning on how to rework, etc. too side by side. So saying it that Ocean is milking or not working hard is bullshit (I know you didn't said it, just addressing to everyone
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Whenever I try launching the Mac version, it just says "this application doesn't work"
If i try the compressed version of Mac it gives a python script code error.
Can anyone help? (using apple silicon m chip)
If i try the compressed version of Mac it gives a python script code error.
Can anyone help? (using apple silicon m chip)
- Dec 24, 2018
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With compressed mac versions, I've gotten into the habit of downloading the PC version and porting it via renpy myself. Download the version of renpy that the game uses (right click the mac app, show package contents then look for script-version.txt) and compile your own, then manually replace the game folder with the PC version. Some games the compiled mac version is just screwy, so it's worth getting familiar with compiling it yourself.
Edit: I installed on an M series from steam and it works fine, so it's probably just the archive files having been compressed via PC.