VN Ren'Py Summer's Gone [S1 Steam + DLC] [Oceanlab]

[BobTheDuck]

Noted. Maybe fapping rotted his brain and now he can't play a visual novel without seeing a sex scene every few minutes. It's annoying to see someone spreading misinformation, but I'm glad to see that the patrons are supportive. I really want Ocean to go all out on this game, it's incredibly good.

He gets hard trolling. It's the only thing that works for him I guess. The congnitive dissonance of attacking patrons who provide the leaks and devlogs, as well as supporting the dev so there is a even a game is astounding.

He is:
- attacking Ocean's patrons for (allegedly) doing what he does almost daily (publicly tearing Ocean a new one with bad reviews, milking claims, narrative complaints etc)
- attacking white knights or sychophants for wanting Ocean to succeed, which he claims he wants.
- claims he's a free thinker who sees through evil dev's malicious lies, but denigrates anyone who dares have an alternative opinion.

 

[Ray_D]

He gets hard trolling. It's the only thing that works for him I guess. The congnitive dissonance of attacking patrons who provide the leaks and devlogs, as well as supporting the dev so there is a even a game is astounding.

He is:
- attacking Ocean's patrons for (allegedly) doing what he does almost daily (publicly tearing Ocean a new one with bad reviews, milking claims, narrative complaints etc)
- attacking white knights or sychophants for wanting Ocean to succeed, which he claims he wants.
- claims he's a free thinker who sees through evil dev's malicious lies, but denigrates anyone who dares have an alternative opinion.

View attachment 3755570

 

[BobTheDuck]

I disagree. Not only was the writing much worse (and that is saying something, considering even the final game isn't what I'd call stellar), it was way too agressive and lacked subtlety.

I'm on the fence about it. In some cases Ocean vastly improved the plausibility of thinks, but for four characters he took some of their parts backwards.

- Bella in the rework is mostly emotionally stable and just a bitch. Pre-rework, she snapped mentally when triggered, no we have tantrums. But, having said that, Bella in Ch5 is better than any previous chapter of Bella, as far as consistency of character. It'd just be great if she didn't have resting bitchface as an emotion, but was volatile, showing that AMber doesn't know how to 'fix' her daughter.
- Nami lost great content, but I believe her story arc is now far better. I can see the build up to a romance being less forced, she's uncertain that she wants it, even if her emotions say yes. She's more afraid of consequences, and less certain of her own desires and has become more of a wildcard. I do sympathise with people who lost scenes that made Nami endearing to them, because in her case, the material was pretty much just cut.
- Mila. We all know, even if new players don't. But her model is not voluptuous. I don't even know. Some stuff in ch4.5 and 5 seems more natural, but I don't even know what her body shape is anymore.
- Boobs. Boobs have suffered. It's like Ocean has done a Wayne's World EXTREME CLOSEUP! He already had great boobs, it was not necessary to add so much digital silicon.

But, overall, if I forget where it started, and take it as a complete body of work, the story is overall, great, and the writing in the newer chapters is generally better than the reworked parts, because it doesn't have to fit what was there before. I have hope for Season 2 because Ocean has an open road ahead, hopefully no more roundabouts.

 

[SmokyQ]

I think this game has some of the best characterizations in all of AVNs. All of the characters (except for one) have a clear distinctive nature to them even the ones that don't have a lot of screentime. I'm not saying its perfect or anything but for AVNs its actually really impressive, which makes it all the more hilarious that Summer herself might have the worst characterization in all of fiction. This bitch is a completely different character scene to scene moment to moment and often line to line nothing about her character traits or motivations are even remotely consistent. A soggy cardboard box has better characterization then Summer because at least we can understand that its soggy and a box made out of cardboard, its not going to magically turn into a bicycle at the drop of a fucking hat. One moment she wants to grab a spider to fight another spider then the next moment she is overly scared of a imaginary spider on her shoulder, one line she yells that Nami is stupid just because she borrowed some gloves than literally the next line says that she is sad that they don't hang out anymore, one scene she is super mature, selfless and attentive to Nia on her birthday then another scene she could barley control herself screaming and jumping on people n shit when Nika didn't want them to mess with his console. And those are examples off the top of my head their is a lot more and don't forget she doesn't even have a lot of screentime either but somehow someway she managed to be like 12 contradictory characters in that short timespan.

 

[BobTheDuck]

I think this game has some of the best characterizations in all of AVNs. All of the characters (except for one) have a clear distinctive nature to them even the ones that don't have a lot of screentime. I'm not saying its perfect or anything but for AVNs its actually really impressive, which makes it all the more hilarious that Summer herself might have the worst characterization in all of fiction. This bitch is a completely different character scene to scene moment to moment and often line to line nothing about her character traits or motivations are even remotely consistent. A soggy cardboard box has better characterization then Summer because at least we can understand that its soggy and a box made out of cardboard, its not going to magically turn into a bicycle at the drop of a fucking hat. One moment she wants to grab a spider to fight another spider then the next moment she is overly scared of a imaginary spider on her shoulder, one line she yells that Nami is stupid just because she borrowed some gloves than literally the next line says that she is sad that they don't hang out anymore, one scene she is super mature, selfless and attentive to Nia on her birthday then another scene she could barley control herself screaming and jumping on people n shit when Nika didn't want them to mess with his console. And those are examples off the top of my head their is a lot more and don't forget she doesn't even have a lot of screentime either but somehow someway she managed to be like 12 contradictory characters in that short timespan.

Generally I'd agree, but 12-13 year olds are not known for consistency or maturity but are capable of such things at least 33% of the time. If you analyse most of SG's characters enough, you'll find inconsistencies. If you analyse real life public personalities you'll also discover inconsistencies.

I find her a completely believable character, keeping in mind the flashbacks are told from either Nika or Nia's perspective - Nia has put Summer on a pedestal far taller than Nika has, even if she doesn't have the same sort of trauma. Nika is specifically remembering moments that are out of sync, and his memory is suspect (not remembering Vic's surname is a classic example, not remembering things about the hospital etc.)

I think Ocean has done well to avoid making her an angel, because she was just a regular person, she is not meant to be superior to any of the LI's in any way, she was 'merely' the person Nika can't get over.

 

[Adhdclassic]

Didn't think much about it but Nicks house must be really huge. in one night he bought in his girls 2 teens Then Mila pops up and he lets her stay for the night. Nick also must be a good dude to let a stranger (Mila) stay in his house. Friend of his girls kids or no still a stranger or maybe he saw what I saw big Tiddies and phat ass and he thought Nojiko nice, Mila DDaaayyyyyuuumm.

 

[hmc15]

This game lost its charm. and I feel like this thread is the strongest echo chamber with most professional white knights in the entire F95zone. They will never listen, and even if they do, they will make an excuse or try to gaslight you.

I genuinely do not understand the white knightism

 

[RNasc4444]

I genuinely do not understand the white knightism

At this point I believe it's in big part due to fears of the game being abandoned. I've been here long enough to realize that even Oceans biggest fans, supporters and staunch defenders know that the game has serious flaws and weaknesses. But they choose to overlook them because they want the game to keep going.

Games get abandoned here pretty much every week. For multiple reasons. One of them is devs not being able to handle criticism. Whatever form of it. Fair or unfair, honest or not. Seeing games you enjoy getting that tag tend to make you a little overprotective of the ones that may follow suit.

I'm sure there are other reasons for it but this has to be one of the biggest.

Personally I don't believe in coddling devs or artists or whatever. I give what I perceive as fair feedback. Both good or bad. Because at the end of the day, praising a bad product will never help make it better.

 

[O1duvai]

At this point I believe it's in big part due to fears of the game being abandoned. I've been here long enough to realize that even Oceans biggest fans, supporters and staunch defenders know that the game has serious flaws and weaknesses. But they choose to overlook them because they want the game to keep going.

Games get abandoned here pretty much every week. For multiple reasons. One of them is devs not being able to handle criticism. Whatever form of it. Fair or unfair, honest or not. Seeing games you enjoy getting that tag tend to make you a little overprotective of the ones that may follow suit.

I'm sure there are other reasons for it but this has to be one of the biggest.

Personally I don't believe in coddling devs or artists or whatever. I give what I perceive as fair feedback. Both good or bad. Because at the end of the day, praising a bad product will never help make it better.

More than a third of the games posted on this forum over the past four years have been on my computer and most of them are jerk off attractions. I can also add a library of a couple of dozen similar games in steam. Based on this, I can fully judge the quality of the games, and this particular one has a couple of shortcomings for the entire cast, after the rework.

All the songs about the characters being too soft compared to their old versions, about “role reversal”, criticism of actions in the spirit of “it doesn't happen, it's not logical” or “this act is very stupid” are not adequate criticism of the game itself. Holy saints, protoganist turned from a redneck schoolboy into an ordinary person This is a matter of taste. And I would like to hope that the Ocean doesn’t care about this (that this is not its only source of income).

Games are abandoned for various reasons, for example, if the author has nothing to eat, but specifically in this case, I don’t see any relevance. Except for taxes and censorship in Germany.

 

[yossa999]

I genuinely do not understand the white knightism

Let me help you understand, dude.

There is AVN Summer's Gone. Like any media product, be it a movie, book or song, some people like it and others don't. For those who like the game, it is completely natural to stay and chat in the thread dedicated to the game they like, share positive impressions, discuss their favorite moments and praise the author for a good job.

Those who don't like the game are divided into several groups. Some, in my opinion the most adequate people, will simply shrug their shoulders and pass by, into the threads of those games that they like and are interested in. And they will forget about the existence of this game and its developer. Some of them will write a post or two about what they didn’t like in a respectful manner, some may leave a negative review. And they will move on, to the thread of a game where they like everything.

The less adequate ones will stay longer and begin to seek the attention of those who like the game. To get what they want, they start writing offensive posts and insulting people, calling it "criticism." Eventually someone will answer them, insults will be exchanged, and they will leave the thread happy with themselves. And to justify their own assholeness, they will accuse their opponents of white knightism, fanboism and other -isms. Because, of course, the thought that their opinion and their very person are irrelevant and insignificant to others will probably never cross their minds. No, they receive harsh response, of course, not because they started it, but because their opponents are pathetic white knights. But the good thing is that after their ego is fed enough, they will lose interest and leave.

And there are the most persistent ones who literally live by this thread and fight against the white knighthood. For me, they are something like arachnids from the movie "Starship Troopers", an absolutely alien life form, I can’t imagine what’s going on in their heads. But for them, anyone who says that they like the game and agrees with the author’s vision is a white knight, a dev's dickrider and a natural enemy, like any earthling to an arachnid.

I personally here to chat in this thread with people I like to communicate with, to discuss the game, to read news and gossip, to watch fanarts, and sometimes, when I'm in the mood, to giggle at the attempts of the groups above to insult me or tell me that the game I like, it's actually crap and I just don't get it. If this is white knightism, then so be it.

 

[AlexFXR]

The less adequate ones will stay longer and begin to seek the attention of those who like the game. To get what they want, they start writing offensive posts and insulting people, calling it "criticism."

When you crowd attack one person and begin to bully and insult him because he has an opinion that does not coincide with yours, is this normal? What category did you come up with for yourself?

 

[O1duvai]

And there are the most persistent ones who literally live by this thread and fight against the white knighthood. For me, they are something like arachnids from the movie "Starship Troopers", an absolutely alien life form, I can’t imagine what’s going on in their heads. But for them, anyone who says that they like the game and agrees with the author’s vision is a white knight, a dev's dickrider and a natural enemy, like any earthling to an arachnid.

 

[bobbo69]

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Hello,

Season 1 has been released on Epic and GOG on the 5th of June.
I sadly have no way to check how it's going with GOG, as I can't access my partner's account anymore. (Apparently, it's not activated.)

And they keep telling me it's due to temporary maintenance... that's lasted 8 days, while all the other devs I asked who use GOG have no issues and have never seen this error message before.

Sadly, GOG's Partner Support hasn't answered my last E-Mail in which I asked if they are sure that this is what's happening... So, I will wait a little longer, and if nothing happens, I will contact someone else at GOG.

Of course, I don't expect anything game-changing from either GOG or Epic. But as we say in Germany, "Kleinvieh macht auch Mist." (Means something along the lines of small things add up.)

But it's a real feeling of accomplishment now.
There's one more thing, though. I'm now in contact with the German rating agency USK. If I had gotten the official rating, I could've sold SG in Germany. It does cost a minimum of 1300€ (in my case 1800€), but I think it's worth it.
It would've been amazing if I could've released it in Germany last month, but, well, you learn things.
This means I will now get back to the German translation, and I hope to have it out in Germany by the end of the month.

Season 2 - Chapter 1

I'm implementing new strategies to smoothen development. I made a gigantic mindmap of everything that needs to be done.
I also included every single scene for Chapter 1.
Chapter 1 has 28 scenes.

Just for comparison, Season 1 - Chapter 5 had 16 scenes.
Of course, some scenes are small, and some are quite big. But overall, this will be the biggest update I've ever done.

Previews
Today, I have a few Noji focused previews... I just felt her today. I wanted to show some really great Zara renders buuuut... I don't want to show too many previews at once.
Zara's next time. (If she brings home an A)
View attachment 3730020 View attachment 3730021 View attachment 3730018

And a bonus preview:
When you're on edge 24/7, and he touches your hand.
View attachment 3730019
I know some would like a render count or a percentage, but I'm sorry, I'll keep it to myself for a while.
I will only say that S2 - Chapter 1 is planned to be released this year.

Taxes, taxes, and even more taxes.
There's a lot of tax talk coming now. If you don't care about it, you can click away. The Dev log will end here for you.
Thanks for your support and time to read until this point.

I think it's important to be somewhat transparent about what's happening behind the scenes, especially regarding the support you guys give me and the planned upgrades.

In the last log, I mentioned that I'd be waiting with the workstation until I know how much pre-tax I'd have to pay...
Less than a week ago, I got an email from my tax office with this information. In the mail were 17 PDFs, all of which had a "Checked" in front of them.
So, my tax offices reviewed them, and they were fine.

When I opened the PDF, it told me how much income and business tax I have to pay every three and two months.
And when I saw the number, I was like... Well, I guess I'll be developing the games from prison soon.
It turns out that there was a typo in it that inflated one of the numbers to something in the late five digits. That was a good scare.
Income tax and business tax are paid separately.

Anyways, what they want from me is still way too much. They're using my 2023 numbers + growth to calculate my pre-tax.
And... There's something I had in 2023 that I don't have anymore... So, due to an unfortunate event, support is down by ~35% compared to 2023.
The amount they want now, if broken down to a monthly base, is 80% of my pre-tax income.
Which is obviously insane. I'm deliberately not adding Steam/Epic/GOG, as I have no numbers of which to go to.
It will still take until July when I see the first payment from Steam. Almost all of it will also go to taxes.
Why?
Because my tax office declares my VAT/UST every month, the government has my 2023 numbers.
Usually, I would have to pay the 2023 taxes in 2025. But because they already saw a rough estimation of my numbers, I have to pay three different bills.
1. The taxes for 2022. Those were calculated in.
2. They raised my pre-tax for 2023 by A LOT, and I have to pay it all at once.
3. The insane 2024 pre-tax on top of the upper two.

That's where all the Steam money is going.
It would've been okay if it had been spaced over a year or so, but not all at once. This ruins my upgrade plans.
And while we asked for the 2024 pre-tax to be lowered with proof that something happened that justifies it, it doesn't mean the government will accept it. They could just say no.

Maybe the Steam or Epic Summer sale will bring in a little extra, which I can dedicate to the workstation fund. Then there's also still WIAB's Steam release in Q4.

I also have to contact Late Kids, Youth 83, The Intangible, and some other artists for Season 2, which is going to cost me a lot again... But it takes priority over the workstation.

So, I will be honest and say I most likely won't be able to get a new workstation this year. It's just not in the cards. The Summer sale or WiAB's Steam release could always surprise us, but I can't rely on it.
I'd say we're just set back by a year in terms of PC upgrades. It's kinda meh, considering that I can set up more renders than it can render overnight, but it's still a good boy.

And yes, I'm thinking about leaving Germany. I actually have a call scheduled for tomorrow with a tax office in a different country. If I can use said "law," I will seriously consider moving in 2025. Unfortunately, thanks to my apartment lease, I'm still stuck in Germany until mid-2025.

It's not great, and I hate that more or less every penny I earn goes somewhere into the expenses, but I'm so incredibly motivated.
Workwise, it's still going to be a great year.

Take care, and thanks a lot for the support!

• Ocean

And here, I thought our government was corrupt

 

[dameromeroxxx]

Damn i really love this game, but I really hope that Ocean will find a way to speed up the production time. Game is 5 years old and we are still at the stage named ''oh that girl in the background looks interesting when I meet you''. We have two of Sasha's friends, the goth girl from the bus and the pizzeria two girls with blue ribbons the one from the cafeteria and the one from the library, hell, there are still girls mentioned only in words like Nancy's friends from the farm or the female athletes from the first team. Not to mention the adult version of Summer, ye she will come back, I don't see any possibility that the Ocean will miss all this fuss and drama associated with her return. for comparison, badik has a similar production time and there is only a mysterious blonde with blue eyes left to meet. Ocean really should have found a way to speed it up

 

[N1ghtcrawler]

Since when is a direct insult on the part of Stefan, nowhere more direct than that, except maybe the “mother of easy virtue” (but wait, this is also in that dialogue), is not a reason for punching a person... in the gilded face? What surprises me even more is that you are not the least bit confused by the reason for this attitude. Well, her absence. "Just because I can", because ass plug with inlay, “Archduke Joseph”, no less.
...
In simple terms, the question here is why assholes cannot be punished in one way or another if the system refuses to do this or works for them for some reason.
We have a scene with banal, undisguised humiliation. Without any adequate reasons.
We were fenced off from actions in the moment only by the fact that we have a different social status, which puts us in a deliberately losing position. That's it, there are no other conditions.

You confused Mario with Stefan, which is why I didn't understand what you meant.
And you confused Mario with the other assholes. Was Nika supposed to punch Mario in the face because the other asshole standing next to him called Mila's mother a whore? (Actually, that would be hillarious to see.) Was he also supposed to break into Mario's house, damage his private property, violate his privacy, and steal money from him? Wait, that's exactly what happened here.

What makes you think that the system should allow you to punch a person who insults you and that system shouldn't retaliate in their favor? In any country with a fair legal system, you will be punished for it and the system will be right.
So no, legally speaking you can't punch a person for insulting you.
Practically speaking... you can. But you need to make a cost/benefit analysis as to what you believe to be in your best interest. So if you want to play a rebel rising up against the system, feel free to do so. In Nika's case, everything was telling him that his rebel act wasn't in his best interest, but he went for it by not just punching, and he screwed up drastically.

Btw, can I ask? A couple of questions. Why is Vanessa such a saint? From the first second of her appearance, she is shown to be an arrogant manipulator, above anyone else.

But, okay, it's not that important. What's more interesting is why we're so worried about Vanessa and not Brenda.

Wrong. She is shown to be a silly rich girl that Bella and Nika think they can easily use. At least that's how Bella describes her after meeting her. Spoiled, but still innocent. Even if she had revealed her true nature to Bella, her being an arrogant manipulator doesn't make her a justifiable victim for their plan.

What exactly is wrong? Before the first meeting, the description came exclusively from a third person, which is what you emphasize. I wrote exactly the same thing. If you don’t know a person or you just know that he exists and you can “use” him for something, you will definitely add this to your plan until you receive new information.
Did I see any arguments against manipulating her? No. Unless solely from the principle of self-preservation.

By the way. When it turns out that Vanessa is manipulating Bella (we already have at least two examples of what she does to people), I am sure that we will not condemn her for this. How it works? On a first-come, first-served basis, probably.

First you said Vanessa is an arrogant manipulator, above everyone else. For you, it was more important to worrry about Brenda than Vanessa. It is so obvious that you were trying to give Nika and Bella a moral justification. They are not wrong in what they're doing because Vanessa is a manipulator. Her being a manipulator is the only excuse you use every time. If she wasn't, as you say now, they would have found out about it after they received new information.
The argument you see against manipulating her is the principle of self-preservation. In the end, what triggered this principle of self-preservation? Her manipulative, predatory mind. But how you justify their actions against Vanessa in the first place? That she is a manipulator.
Overall, it's only you who is looking for an excuse for them, they didn't bother about it at all.

Bella is not just a third person but Nika's accomplice. Nika came up with a plan but they developed it together. If the information about Vanessa was coming from someone like Emilio, your words would make sense. That's not the case here. They work together as a team, they actively share ideas and information about their target, they are equal co-conspirators in their scheme.

What information was Nika supposed to receive about Vanessa other than what he was getting from Bella? She was working on her under the agreement, their roles were already assigned. Nika and Vanessa's meeting was never supposed to happen, it was a simple coincidence.

Well, I see an argument against manipulating her. Vanessa has done nothing to either Bella or Nika (and still hasn't). But they chose to ruin her life as well as the Holgersons if the plan succeeded without her having done anything to either of them. Up until Nika met her, from his perspective Vanessa was presented as an innocent. But the reason he refused to use her was exactly the opposite. They needed a stupid and naive girl who was easy to control. Simply put, they needed a new Brenda.

They aborted using Vanessa for their plan because they couldn't succeed, not because they showed remorse. The plan hasn't necessarily been aborted by the way, just that Nika knows that Bella shouldn't try it with Vanessa. That says a lot about what kind of people Bella and Nika really are.

And yes, let's pretend it wasn't Bella who came to Vanessa to manipulate her in the first place and that Vanessa most likely used her skill as a defense mechanism. By the way, both Nika and Vanessa are manipulators. So far, Nika has a lot more examples of using his skill, he also used it against Bella.

Well, first of all, if all their actions were reasonable and not emotional, we would have a couple of anti-heroes. Secondly, aspen trees do not grow oranges. We were shown a son, an asshole who hardly became like that because of nature’s mistakes, and... perhaps there is one more small moment that I personally can perceive as confirmation of Bella’s “opinion” about Holgerson. Violation of her personal space at a restaurant table. A girl who is much younger, who is the daughter of the woman to whom he rolls his balls.

Give me a definition of an antihero that says their actions should be reasonable, not emotional. It only fits your personal ideas about anti-heroes and you made it up.
Bella has her little confirmation of her theory, and I have a whole ton of confirmations that she is full of crap and her words should be taken with huge skepticism every time she opens her mouth.

Does this justify the “destruction of the family”? No. Well, not yet. If it turns out that Holgerson is connected to drugs, then excuse me, for me this issue will immediately be resolved (I have a feeling that the plot will go in that direction).

You have a very flexible view of what is justified and what is not. Breaking into private property for an insult is justified, but pretending to be a different person in front of someone who is trying to manipulate you in the first place - nope. Destroying a man's family for persecuting an innocent girl is over the top, but giving him another woman just because she doesn't meet your personal standards of a normal person, even though she pretends to be normal is the perfect deal. The list could go on and on.

 

[sfree21]

Is there sex in the game? or just teasing and nude?

 

[Ali ibn Hassan]

When you crowd attack one person and begin to bully and insult him because he has an opinion that does not coincide with yours, is this normal? What category did you come up with for yourself?

I find the way your mind work is fascinating

 

[Penfold Mole]

Didn't think much about it but Nicks house must be really huge. in one night he bought in his girls 2 teens Then Mila pops up and he lets her stay for the night. Nick also must be a good dude to let a stranger (Mila) stay in his house. Friend of his girls kids or no still a stranger or maybe he saw what I saw big Tiddies and phat ass and he thought Nojiko nice, Mila DDaaayyyyyuuumm.

He has a fucking huge ass bike in the middle of his hall / lobby! The lobby could fit a small house by itself!

He obviously lives in a mansion, not a simple house. He could probably house a few more full families there without feeling overpopulated

His daughter wears a fucking tiara on daily basis , as Nami so well points out.

The man is clearly loaded like a movie star. Nojiko found a fucking goldmine!

Spoiler

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[O1duvai]

You confused Mario with Stefan, which is why I didn't understand what you meant.
And you confused Mario with the other assholes. Was Nika supposed to punch Mario in the face because the other asshole standing next to him called Mila's mother a whore? (Actually, that would be hillarious to see.) Was he also supposed to break into Mario's house, damage his private property, violate his privacy, and steal money from him? Wait, that's exactly what happened here.

Yes, I got the names mixed up, I apologize. It will be necessary to refresh and replay.

We have a company in front of us. The company you don't like, obviously you don't like them either. One of them comes point blank and says that your (this is an example, I don’t mean anything like that) mother... you understand. The citizens standing behind him grin, laugh and hint in every possible way that they agree. Why should I separate these people's faces in front of my fist? Okay, I would understand if someone in the company (Mario) looked different, stood with a serious face, for example, or looked at the birds. But that's not true.
So yes, it’s not very good to generalize. But it is quite possible to understand what follows and the actions do not contradict the reason.

The fact that he decided to keep money out of the house and Bella did not stop him (and not only) - I condemn, but this is also understandable from the point of view of the character formed by the surrounding world. A person who has never seen such money will most likely try to steal it.
But, personally, I(!), I don’t think that just such an act, with the described context (character and situation, the dude lives on Nojiko’s neck), should be perceived as a point of no return and the character should be considered a complete asshole.

What makes you think that the system should allow you to punch a person who insults you and that system shouldn't retaliate in their favor? In any country with a fair legal system, you will be punished for it and the system will be right.
So no, legally speaking you can't punch a person for insulting you.
Practically speaking... you can. But you need to make a cost/benefit analysis as to what you believe to be in your best interest. So if you want to play a rebel rising up against the system, feel free to do so. In Nika's case, everything was telling him that his rebel act wasn't in his best interest, but he went for it by not just punching, and he screwed up drastically.

Are we talking about justice or laws? These are slightly different things. And I don't think it's appropriate to shoot someone in the face with a shotgun because of an insult., but contrary to popular belief among people who live in bubbles, if you just turn away and walk on with your head held high, even though you'll likely see these people often, it won't do you are strong and will not be stopped by a snickering pig. On the contrary, you will already encounter someone who considers himself above the laws you love.
I know how this works from my personal experience from elementary school. When I was still small and a little stupid, and didn’t know much about the psychology of scumbags.

First you said Vanessa is an arrogant manipulator, above everyone else. For you, it was more important to worrry about Brenda than Vanessa. It is so obvious that you were trying to give Nika and Bella a moral justification. They are not wrong in what they're doing because Vanessa is a manipulator. Her being a manipulator is the only excuse you use every time. If she wasn't, as you say now, they would have found out about it after they received new information.
The argument you see against manipulating her is the principle of self-preservation. In the end, what triggered this principle of self-preservation? Her manipulative, predatory mind. But how you justify their actions against Vanessa in the first place? That she is a manipulator.
Overall, it's only you who is looking for an excuse for them, they didn't bother about it at all.

Why do I need another argument for myself?
This is something like a game of deep psychology, if I understand correctly. Then everything is much simpler - I don’t like arrogant people who pose an existential threat.

Let's assume the situation. You want to take some action, for example, climb the career ladder. Someone else is standing in your way, well, competition for a place. You know that your opponent is cheating and decide to set him up or simply tell management about exactly how he does it so that the place becomes yours.
But you have never seen this person before and here is your first meeting. On what basis might your opinion change (or, conversely, remain the same)?

I suspect you'll apply the same rules I apply to Vanessa. And you will absolutely not care about the shape of her ass or the presence/absence of heterochromia.

So my opinion is based on a couple of scenes at the end of the season and I didn't like it at all. In a short dialogue while changing clothes, she literally tries to get into the protagonist’s head, which would also cause antipathy in me.

Why did I talk about Brenda? Because at the moment, while we have one season, for us and Nika this is a completely unfamiliar and incomprehensible character, who is also... (drums) used. Then we are shown Bella’s reaction (yes, she clearly knows more about Brenda, but they are clearly not friends and for her this is also some person from the street).
And it is on the basis of this reaction that I conclude that in front of me is far from a bad person who can do crap, but also has the brain to regret it. Isn't that what separates people from assholes?
I don’t see any point in talking about Nika in the same situation, because the player chooses his reaction and projects himself accordingly (or farms achievements in the steam version).
The point is that I don't need to justify anyone. I can either understand and accept the action/character or I can’t. There is no additional subtext here, I don’t like those people who deliberately do crap knowing what it will lead to. And I’m sure that everything Vanessa does has been thought through more than once.

What information was Nika supposed to receive about Vanessa other than what he was getting from Bella? She was working on her under the agreement, their roles were already assigned. Nika and Vanessa's meeting was never supposed to happen, it was a simple coincidence.

This is exactly the point. In people's reactions to random "revelations". I could understand if Nika was made to be completely repulsed and he would not react in any way, in the spirit of “following the plan,” but this is not so.

Well, I see an argument against manipulating her. Vanessa has done nothing to either Bella or Nika (and still hasn't). But they chose to ruin her life as well as the Holgersons if the plan succeeded without her having done anything to either of them. Up until Nika met her, from his perspective Vanessa was presented as an innocent. But the reason he refused to use her was exactly the opposite. They needed a stupid and naive girl who was easy to control. Simply put, they needed a new Brenda.

Stop, stop. Firstly, I don’t really understand what exactly will ruin Vanessa’s life, sex with an older man? It would even be interesting to watch. I still don’t see any arguments in favor of leaving everything as it is, folding my paws and ending up living with an asshole who strokes his daughter’s hand while hitting on her mother. As for Vanessa, neither you nor I have a good picture of what kind of person this is and what his motives are. It's simply not in the text of the season, so naturally my assessment is based on its manipulation.

Separately, I will note that you instantly gave the label to Brenda, probably because her husband cheated on her and she acutely perceives reminders of this.
Is this assessment, like, better than Bella's assessment of Holgerson? Ok then.

They aborted using Vanessa for their plan because they couldn't succeed, not because they showed remorse. The plan hasn't necessarily been aborted by the way, just that Nika knows that Bella shouldn't try it with Vanessa. That says a lot about what kind of people Bella and Nika really are.

In the context of the dialogues written by the author, Nika’s reluctance to continue what she had planned with Vanessa was dictated, in my opinion, by something else. Getting used to Bella's company.
But you can interpret this differently. Only in my opinion this is obvious.

And yes, let's pretend it wasn't Bella who came to Vanessa to manipulate her in the first place and that Vanessa most likely used her skill as a defense mechanism. By the way, both Nika and Vanessa are manipulators. So far, Nika has a lot more examples of using his skill, he also used it against Bella.

Everything here is so simple that it’s strange to discuss it in a serious conversation. He simply has more screen time in the season (probably this has something to do with the fact that Nika is the protagonist).

Give me a definition of an antihero that says their actions should be reasonable, not emotional. It only fits your personal ideas about anti-heroes and you made it up.
Bella has her little confirmation of her theory, and I have a whole ton of confirmations that she is full of crap and her words should be taken with huge skepticism every time she opens her mouth.

You have a very flexible view of what is justified and what is not. Breaking into private property for an insult is justified, but pretending to be a different person in front of someone who is trying to manipulate you in the first place - nope. Destroying a man's family for persecuting an innocent girl is over the top, but giving him another woman just because she doesn't meet your personal standards of a normal person, even though she pretends to be normal is the perfect deal. The list could go on and on.

But this is interesting, by the way.
I can give you an example of an anti-hero driven by logic and skill, whose actions are reasonable and deliberate, whose goal is likely to be largely justified. The so-called "ambiguous" anti-heroes.
Good Philadelphian Clyde Shelton.
Remember who it is? I strongly doubt that you will be able to justify his actions from the point of view of law and logic (although it depends on whose), but hardly from the point of view of morality.

This is also where the legs of flexible morality grow. It is unlikely that you can call a rich sheikh who approaches students much younger than himself, while simultaneously returning to the bedroom with their mothers, a highly moral person.
Let me emphasize that all this is not confirmed by the script of the first season. This is all speculation on both your part and mine.

And you still depersonalize and consider stupid the same abstract girl who is “put in bed". You describe Vanessa as extremely intelligent, but that label can still stick to her.
It's like this abstract has no brains.

And yes, everyone has their own standards of normality. The only problem is that I don’t use “standards” and at first Bella infuriated me just as much as, most likely, many of the players. The only difference is that I have more flexible ideas about people and their psyche, and I don’t deny them chances because of one fuckup.
But, again, I understand perfectly well that the author can make a Deep Dark fantasy about assholes and I won’t like the updated heroes.

Is there sex in the game? or just teasing and nude?

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[MadMonk]

Can't wait to play through the entire season 2 in like 7 years...