VN Ren'Py Summer's Gone [S1 Steam + DLC] [Oceanlab]

[BobTheDuck]

Very fair. And I think we've discussed this before but the fact that this is how his traumatized brain portrays her raises even more red flags. If you love someone to the point of almost obsession, to the point you can't let her go, wouldn't your brain portray your idealized version of her?

His dream/nightmare portrayal of Summer matches the other tidbits we got of her personality though. Her agressive nature when Nami first brings her home and her assholish atittude in the icecream scene with Elsa and the MC.

Anyways I'm more concerned on how her future appearance will affect the story. I did once say (and fully maintain today) that Summer being alive and showing up in the future would be the single greatest detriment to this story there could possibly be.

I hate being out of reacts. I'll owe you one internet coffee cup of like.

Even the flashbacks are Nika's idealised/traumatised/avoidance memories, so even they could be false. But your point about Summer being aliv and returning... well I don't care if she's alive or dead, just that she should remain out of the story except for flashbacks. I mean if Ocean brings her back, the whole point of healing through a combination of choice and communal support is superceded by a monopoly get out of jail free card.

Nika should work through his trauma without Summer in my opinion, it's a stronger story. Much better if Summer does appear, that sh appears right at the end, in the bad ending, and Nika leaves with her Natural BOrn Killers style. Or She turns up at Nika's epilogue wedding, and he wonders who she is, turns around to look at his bride, and we never see Summer again, like passing ships.

Something non derivative. We've seen too many old flame/returning ex stories to even care. Her as a disruptor and her plot works better if it can't b solved in the game, and that can be its own game later.

 

[Don Sucio]

She's not fat, but she's not athletic either, especially compared to Zara or Bella, or better yet, compare her to Louise, the girl who was in the night street basketball game at the end of Chapter 5. Louise is also petite, but very fit.

The only scene where we see Vic completely naked, which crosses my mind - are those special renders with a collar and a condom. And there she has a sexy tummy, which Fabienne talked about to Butch in Pulp Fiction.

Spoiler: Vic

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I don't know how, but Ocean managed to make half of the renders with Vic absolutely unattractive to me, and half where I find her very attractive and a few where she's absolutely gorgeous. Overall, she's probably the most interesting character for me in terms of the plot, because it's unclear what her future role is in this whole story, and how she is/was connected to the MC (something in the past?). But she appears in almost all the events, one way or another. She's always somewhere nearby.

I´m not a fan of Vic but she is the one who can change Nika, i´m pretty sure. Her personality is the opposite to Nika, and she is really fucked up...

About her body, i think she is hot, there is this scene where Vic needs to pee and Nika helps her... For me, hot.
I usually prefer bodies like Zara or Bella, even Nami, but what can i say, i lke to grab some "meat" too while i fuck (sorry for the unnecessary information).

It´s her personality what i dislike , too childish for me... But it has its own charm too, i suppose.

Anyways I'm more concerned on how her future appearance will affect the story. I did once say (and fully maintain today) that Summer being alive and showing up in the future would be the single greatest detriment to this story there could possibly be.

I think Summer being back (and alive) would be logical if Ocean wants the MC to fight againts his demons agains, like some type of proof for his state of mind. And maybe make the player choose between continue with his path or maybe change things and get near to Summer.

I wouldn´t mind her being alive but i don´t care too much if she is dead.

 

[hermit_tr]

Christ, Nami was ugly in that version.

Actually in that version she was quite pretty, but only when her mouth was closed.
I don't know if it was Regium's style, or if he still couldn't adjust the characters expressions when their mouths were open.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

Much better if Summer does appear, that sh appears right at the end, in the bad ending, and Nika leaves with her Natural BOrn Killers style.

I thought the bad ending was Nika and Bella gunned down by the cop after a robbery gone wrong

 

[BobTheDuck]

I think Summer being back (and alive) would be logical if Ocean wants the MC to fight againts his demons agains, like some type of proof for his state of mind. And maybe make the player choose between continue with his path or maybe change things and get near to Summer.

I wouldn´t mind her being alive but i don´t care too much if she is dead.

Ah, I know Ocean can do things like that, and he'll do them well enough ...but how commonplace is that scenario in AVN's already? I'd love to find out things like:

- Nika got too handsy, and Summer told her parents, Summer hates Nika now, and the parents give in because SHE want's to move far far away (I know it's not likely);
- or Summer stays away on purpose, comes to the wedding (or whatever event) to see Nika's happy, then slips away with a smile on her face;
- or we see more and more flashbacks, until we find out exactly what happened to Summer that Nika's blocking out.

These are far less derivative options that the boring "old flame, which do I choose???" scenario. As I say, Ocean can do it well, but why not do something more interesting? That is my hope. Giving up the mystery of why she's gone with her coming back as though it was a holiday of no consequence would 100% cheapen the story.

 

[Krytax123]

Ah, I know Ocean can do things like that, and he'll do them well enough ...but how commonplace is that scenario in AVN's already? I'd love to find out things like:

- Nika got too handsy, and Summer told her parents, Summer hates Nika now, and the parents give in because SHE want's to move far far away (I know it's not likely);
- or Summer stays away on purpose, comes to the wedding (or whatever event) to see Nika's happy, then slips away with a smile on her face;
- or we see more and more flashbacks, until we find out exactly what happened to Summer that Nika's blocking out.

These are far less derivative options that the boring "old flame, which do I choose???" scenario. As I say, Ocean can do it well, but why not do something more interesting? That is my hope. Giving up the mystery of why she's gone with her coming back as though it was a holiday of no consequence would 100% cheapen the story.

Nah man, i would really really hate these two variations.

I like summer and would like her coming back as a LI BUT imo it works best for the story if shes simply dead BUT (again) imo we missed that point in the story already. There would be no need to keep everything nebolous if she would just be dead and someone should have pointed it out.

Also Nia should be aware if she would have died realisticly.

And i entirely lack creativity how Summer will come back and why/where she is gone. It would be way easier if shes simply dead because otherwise Ocean would have to have a really coherent great plot about that in his sleeve. I cant see any reason which would realistically explain her abscence and NO WAY to make contact in our times while still giving her the possibility to come back easy peasy.

The only thing i could somehow vaguely imagine is that Summers family is closer to the Zane's and its somehow related to some kind of deal to keep Nika away from the Zane's. But in this case Noji would have to be the one enforcing the "deal" and i think she would feel way worse if her decision did lead to Nika's state and would proably have reverted it.

So yeah, i really like Summer, but in lack of good ideas of her being away and how to bring her back, i would vote for her being dead at this point

I just hope it wont turn out to be some shit like Nika is fully aware of everything (and everyone else too) and all this mystery is just for us viewers because Nika is suppressing his memorys ... uggh.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Nah man, i would really really hate these two variations.

I like summer and would like her coming back as a LI BUT imo it works best for the story if shes simply dead BUT (again) imo we missed that point in the story already. There would be no need to keep everything nebolous if she would just be dead and someone should have pointed it out.

Also Nia should be aware if she would have died realisticly.

And i entirely lack creativity how Summer will come back and why/where she is gone. It would be way easier if shes simply dead because otherwise Ocean would have to have a really coherent great plot about that in his sleeve. I cant see any reason which would realistically explain her abscence and NO WAY to make contact in our times while still giving her the possibility to come back easy peasy.

The only thing i could somehow vaguely imagine is that Summers family is closer to the Zane's and its somehow related to some kind of deal to keep Nika away from the Zane's. But in this case Noji would have to be the one enforcing the "deal" and i think she would feel way worse if her decision did lead to Nika's state and would proably have reverted it.

So yeah, i really like Summer, but in lack of good ideas of her being away and how to bring her back, i would vote for her being dead at this point

I just hope it wont turn out to be some shit like Nika is fully aware of everything (and everyone else too) and all this mystery is just for us viewers because Nika is suppressing his memorys ... uggh.

My scenarios weren't the best and were pretty tongue in cheek, more to point out that Summer hasn't been waiting out of sight, in the wings waiting to make her grand main stage debut ...necessarily. She could, but it don't think she needs to even if she is alive. These are just a couple of ways it could be retconned - we find out from Emilio what the ral score is, or we find out as AMber's therapy helps Nika be more honest and he reveals what he's been hiding in his memory, whether simply trauma of what he witnessed or whatever.

Nia doesn't need to know, because if Summer survived, Nia could still find Summer's house and ask her parents. Or find out from the new people living in the house that the old owners moved interstate or whatever. Summer was just as important to Nia in many ways as Summer was to Nika - in some ways more, as Nia didn't have friends and Nika always had Nami.

But yeah, just throwing out ideas while we wait to see. Ocean'll do his story regardless of what I think about Summer anyway, she's important to him for the plot, so I guess she's one of the more detailed plot plans Ocean's cooked up

 

[Don Sucio]

Ah, I know Ocean can do things like that, and he'll do them well enough ...but how commonplace is that scenario in AVN's already? I'd love to find out things like:

- Nika got too handsy, and Summer told her parents, Summer hates Nika now, and the parents give in because SHE want's to move far far away (I know it's not likely);
- or we see more and more flashbacks, until we find out exactly what happened to Summer that Nika's blocking out.

I find out those two interesting.

The first one would be wild, i mean, Nika would be the bad guy, something like harassment or abuse? It could have been interesting in old SG, but don´t you think maybe is too much for the new SG, too much dark?
Anyway i would be happy with something like Nika being the cause of her escape.

The second one is the most plausible for me, i think Ocean is going to bring back Summer at some point and Nika will continue having flashback revealing step by step what happened.

I don´t know how capable is Ocean, i know he is good, for me one of the best in this VN world, but how good is he actually? I have my expectations really up, he is doing all i want in a VN right now but i think if he is going to "screw it up" at some point is going to be with this Summer thing. I hope i´m wrong but we will see.

What i really need to know asap is the violent incident, i think that would reveal so many things, and i need it because i have always suspected from Nami or her implication somehow.

 

[BobTheDuck]

I find out those two interesting.

The first one would be wild, i mean, Nika would be the bad guy, something like harassment or abuse? It could have been interesting in old SG, but don´t you think maybe is too much for the new SG, too much dark?
Anyway i would be happy with something like Nika being the cause of her escape.

The second one is the most plausible for me, i think Ocean is going to bring back Summer at some point and Nika will continue having flashback revealing step by step what happened.

I don´t know how capable is Ocean, i know he is good, for me one of the best in this VN world, but how good is he actually? I have my expectations really up, he is doing all i want in a VN right now but i think if he is going to "screw it up" at some point is going to be with this Summer thing. I hope i´m wrong but we will see.

What i really need to know asap is the violent incident, i think that would reveal so many things, and i need it because i have always suspected from Nami or her implication somehow.

I think as time goes on SG will have some darker stuff, I mean Bella did do a hit and run, Melanie attempted to murder Vic as a kid, whatever Nami did and the violent incident was also are going to be dark. I think the no dark path is more that there is no path where Nika becomes one with the dark side. It's his story of redemption from over thinking and over feeling, not the story of how he breaks anyone. So dark themes will still be present, just not choices moving away from healing. That's how I understand it anyway. There will be tension, not everything will be hadpats and handholding.

So if that's true, there can still be some disturbing things other than Seigbert.

Capability we'll find out. While the story keeps us interested, he's doing it well, that's the only real criteria for me.

I don't think we'll find out about the violent incident too quickly. A reval like that will tell too much, Nika will make us work for that knowledge

 

[Don Sucio]

I think as time goes on SG will have some darker stuff, I mean Bella did do a hit and run, Melanie attempted to murder Vic as a kid, whatever Nami did and the violent incident was also are going to be dark. I think the no dark path is more that there is no path where Nika becomes one with the dark side. It's his story of redemption from over thinking and over feeling, not the story of how he breaks anyone. So dark themes will still be present, just not choices moving away from healing. That's how I understand it anyway. There will be tension, not everything will be hadpats and handholding.

So if that's true, there can still be some disturbing things other than Seigbert.

Capability we'll find out. While the story keeps us interested, he's doing it well, that's the only real criteria for me.

I don't think we'll find out about the violent incident too quickly. A reval like that will tell too much, Nika will make us work for that knowledge

I´m with you, yeah.

I can wait some more years before finding out what happened in the violent incident . But i think it could be revealed between season 2 or 3, maybe 3 or 4? (I don´t remember how many seasons is going to have the game).

About the dark path i have said so many times that i always have been a fan of dark paths, i enjoy being the "bad boy", freedom in games are the best. But i understand why Ocean decided to retire that path, the story is (imo) better with a redemption arc, more emotions.

But i think is still viable to be a little dark, for example take revenge on certains characters or maybe line up with bad characters like that girl who is bad and Bella´s enemy (i don´t remember her name, maybe Cerill, Melani? ). There may be options where Nika is bad buuut is still healing, or at least i hope so. I want to see some fetishes that maybe are "dark", like femdom (Veronica?), peggind (Maja?) and that stuff, i think those fetishes fit better in a "dark" path, and of course those situations where the MC lose, like that time when Zara and Nadia(?) lock up Nika in the locker room , that scene was very hot imo but at the end nothing happened, i would be happy with more of that but with a proper ending . Is good too imo to have some situations where Nika lose, after all he is not Superman and i think makes him more real.

Buuuut, as always Ocean has the answers we are looking for.

 

[Hobocop Harrier du bois]

I´m with you, yeah.

I can wait some more years before finding out what happened in the violent incident . But i think it could be revealed between season 2 or 3, maybe 3 or 4? (I don´t remember how many seasons is going to have the game).

About the dark path i have said so many times that i always have been a fan of dark paths, i enjoy being the "bad boy", freedom in games are the best. But i understand why Ocean decided to retire that path, the story is (imo) better with a redemption arc, more emotions.

But i think is still viable to be a little dark, for example take revenge on certains characters or maybe line up with bad characters like that girl who is bad and Bella´s enemy (i don´t remember her name, maybe Cerill, Melani? ). There may be options where Nika is bad buuut is still healing, or at least i hope so. I want to see some fetishes that maybe are "dark", like femdom (Veronica?), peggind (Maja?) and that stuff, i think those fetishes fit better in a "dark" path, and of course those situations where the MC lose, like that time when Zara and Nadia(?) lock up Nika in the locker room , that scene was very hot imo but at the end nothing happened, i would be happy with more of that but with a proper ending . Is good too imo to have some situations where Nika lose, after all he is not Superman and i think makes him more real.

Buuuut, as always Ocean has the answers we are looking for.

Maja sadly isn't an LI. Ocean has confirmed this. At best you'll get some booba and ass shots i guess.

 

[Mamaragan]

I think as time goes on SG will have some darker stuff, I mean Bella did do a hit and run, Melanie attempted to murder Vic as a kid, whatever Nami did and the violent incident was also are going to be dark. I think the no dark path is more that there is no path where Nika becomes one with the dark side. It's his story of redemption from over thinking and over feeling, not the story of how he breaks anyone. So dark themes will still be present, just not choices moving away from healing. That's how I understand it anyway. There will be tension, not everything will be hadpats and handholding.

So if that's true, there can still be some disturbing things other than Seigbert.

Capability we'll find out. While the story keeps us interested, he's doing it well, that's the only real criteria for me.

I don't think we'll find out about the violent incident too quickly. A reval like that will tell too much, Nika will make us work for that knowledge

I don't think sg will have darker scenes. Ocean really made it clear when he deleted the gun scene. The game will have, I think, some adult themed scenes, and I don't mean the sexual kind. But actual dark shit like the OG game was supposed to have? Nah. I think that's reserved for WIAB.

 

[Don Sucio]

Maja sadly isn't an LI. Ocean has confirmed this. At best you'll get some booba and ass shots i guess.

Oh, I know!

If i´m not wrong Maja would be lewdable, maybe some sex scene before she understands what she is doing and blah blah blah. I think it´s still possible to have some fun with her, just not like a couple or something extendable to all the story.

If i´m not wrong something similar can happen with Amber. I´m replaying the game now so there are soo many thing i have forgotten.

 

[BobTheDuck]

I´m with you, yeah.

I can wait some more years before finding out what happened in the violent incident . But i think it could be revealed between season 2 or 3, maybe 3 or 4? (I don´t remember how many seasons is going to have the game).

About the dark path i have said so many times that i always have been a fan of dark paths, i enjoy being the "bad boy", freedom in games are the best. But i understand why Ocean decided to retire that path, the story is (imo) better with a redemption arc, more emotions.

But i think is still viable to be a little dark, for example take revenge on certains characters or maybe line up with bad characters like that girl who is bad and Bella´s enemy (i don´t remember her name, maybe Cerill, Melani? ). There may be options where Nika is bad buuut is still healing, or at least i hope so. I want to see some fetishes that maybe are "dark", like femdom (Veronica?), peggind (Maja?) and that stuff, i think those fetishes fit better in a "dark" path, and of course those situations where the MC lose, like that time when Zara and Nadia(?) lock up Nika in the locker room , that scene was very hot imo but at the end nothing happened, i would be happy with more of that but with a proper ending . Is good too imo to have some situations where Nika lose, after all he is not Superman and i think makes him more real.

Buuuut, as always Ocean has the answers we are looking for.

Well, as I say, we've still got Nika getting into fights, he'll go to train with Ayua for what if there are no other fights? I can imagine the scene with those two idiot racers getting violent next time he meets them. No one's pushed Nika's buttons yet either, but we saw he wants to get serious when Zara/Robin/Nadia used Nami as a lure. So someone will use his emotions against him at some point and he'll lash out. It won't dark enough to glorify violence (and I'm glad of that personally), but there will be teeth. Vanessa we already know can be dangerous in some way from the way she talks about "Miss Steiner" - that was pretty threatening, asserting dominance. And Maja having a shibari fetish ...why would we need to know that specifically where we've already seen the box of toys unless it's there? Then we've got the stuff with Bella's sister and dad. That won't be happy. So there will be dark ideas and events, but it won't be RE (as funny as that would be for at least 5 min).

I don't think sg will have darker scenes. Ocean really made it clear when he deleted the gun scene. The game will have, I think, some adult themed scenes, and I don't mean the sexual kind. But actual dark shit like the OG game was supposed to have? Nah. I think that's reserved for WIAB.

The dark path not being present is different to whether there will be further trauma for NIka to process. If there's no further trauma, he's just in cotton wool, he hasn't healed. Ocean took away the gun scene, but left a gun on Bella's desk. There has to be implications of consequence. The original dark path was Nika being abusive. So remove the abusive part, there can still be really dark moments, like what we know about Melanie attempting murder. I think the dark moments won't be that dark, but there will be some serious fights I imagine, especially as Bella's already done one hit and run, and Marla's done the hit. We can have more of that easily. But it won't be the main direction, otherwise it won't be about healing. Just enough seriousness to show Nika developing life skills and fortitude when Maja ties him up maybe?

 

[Mamaragan]

Well, as I say, we've still got Nika getting into fights, he'll go to train with Ayua for what if there are no other fights? I can imagine the scene with those two idiot racers getting violent next time he meets them. No one's pushed Nika's buttons yet either, but we saw he wants to get serious when Zara/Robin/Nadia used Nami as a lure. So someone will use his emotions against him at some point and he'll lash out. It won't dark enough to glorify violence (and I'm glad of that personally), but there will be teeth. Vanessa we already know can be dangerous in some way from the way she talks about "Miss Steiner" - that was pretty threatening, asserting dominance. And Maja having a shibari fetish ...why would we need to know that specifically where we've already seen the box of toys unless it's there? Then we've got the stuff with Bella's sister and dad. That won't be happy. So there will be dark ideas and events, but it won't be RE (as funny as that would be for at least 5 min).



The dark path not being present is different to whether there will be further trauma for NIka to process. If there's no further trauma, he's just in cotton wool, he hasn't healed. Ocean took away the gun scene, but left a gun on Bella's desk. There has to be implications of consequence. The original dark path was Nika being abusive. So remove the abusive part, there can still be really dark moments, like what we know about Melanie attempting murder. I think the dark moments won't be that dark, but there will be some serious fights I imagine, especially as Bella's already done one hit and run, and Marla's done the hit. We can have more of that easily. But it won't be the main direction, otherwise it won't be about healing. Just enough seriousness to show Nika developing life skills and fortitude when Maja ties him up maybe?

Maybe it's an issue about how we interpret words. Because everything you said, I don't consider it dark elements. Just adult themes. Bella's gun presence has no dark undertone, unless she suddenly tells you she shot someone, or trying to kill herself with it. The "hit and run" from Bella is more comical and vindictive than "dark". She didn't crush him under her wheel and left this clown crippled for life.

Melanie supposed attempted murder is just a story we hear from Vic, there's no flashback showing us. It's just there to establish her as the sociopathic antagonist.

Since the game is about healing, we'll be encouraged moving from anything considered "dark". This is why I don't think dark stuff are going to be present the way we think.

There will be adult themes like:
Cheating, Rivalry with other colleges that was hinted could turn nasty, the illegal races, the secrets surrounding MC, the book club, Ceril, bullying ect...

But dark stuff like rape, murder, humiliation, blackmail, death, is unlikely imo.

 

[KrusherKev]

Amber doesn't need to be a now and forever kinda love interest, she's hot now and will be an interesting lewdable character if nothing else. Maja however, she needs to be full on eventual love interest, MC hitting that only a few times would be such a waste of a hottie

 

[BobTheDuck]

Maybe it's an issue about how we interpret words. Because everything you said, I don't consider it dark elements. Just adult themes. Bella's gun presence has no dark undertone, unless she suddenly tells you she shot someone, or trying to kill herself with it. The "hit and run" from Bella is more comical and vindictive than "dark". She didn't crush him under her wheel and left this clown crippled for life.

Melanie supposed attempted murder is just a story we hear from Vic, there's no flashback showing us. It's just there to establish her as the sociopathic antagonist.

Since the game is about healing, we'll be encouraged moving from anything considered "dark". This is why I don't think dark stuff are going to be present the way we think.

There will be adult themes like:
Cheating, Rivalry with other colleges that was hinted could turn nasty, the illegal races, the secrets surrounding MC, the book club, Ceril, bullying ect...

But dark stuff like rape, murder, humiliation, blackmail, death, is unlikely imo.

Yeah, in that sense I don't expect (or personally want) things like rape or blackmail. Until we know what happened to summer though, murder or death aren't ruled out. We still have Emilio present.

Th fact that a hit and run can be considered comical (I personally saw it as a moment which could easily have gotten dark) shows that th focus even in darker themes will be on the surviving trauma aspect, naturally. But I hold to the point that we only know healing because there was a wound that's become a scar, and we only know a broken leg has healed once we can run again. So the dark path is gone, but there will need to be darker elements even if some (like breaking and entering) are seen as a joke rather than taken seriously. I'd love for there to be serious consequences for little things like that, simply because choices should have an impact, not just be different flavours.

So I think you're right - we're mostly agreeing, we just use different degrees to measure.

Amber doesn't need to be a now and forever kinda love interest, she's hot now and will be an interesting lewdable character if nothing else. Maja however, she needs to be full on eventual love interest, MC hitting that only a few times would be such a waste of a hottie

As much as I'd love that to be the case, Vic is really in our way

 

[Don Sucio]

Maybe it's an issue about how we interpret words. Because everything you said, I don't consider it dark elements. Just adult themes. Bella's gun presence has no dark undertone, unless she suddenly tells you she shot someone, or trying to kill herself with it. The "hit and run" from Bella is more comical and vindictive than "dark". She didn't crush him under her wheel and left this clown crippled for life.

Melanie supposed attempted murder is just a story we hear from Vic, there's no flashback showing us. It's just there to establish her as the sociopathic antagonist.

Since the game is about healing, we'll be encouraged moving from anything considered "dark". This is why I don't think dark stuff are going to be present the way we think.

There will be adult themes like:
Cheating, Rivalry with other colleges that was hinted could turn nasty, the illegal races, the secrets surrounding MC, the book club, Ceril, bullying ect...

But dark stuff like rape, murder, humiliation, blackmail, death, is unlikely imo.

Well, some things like rape or murder i´m pretty sure there aren´t going to be in this game too, but if we look to the humiliation thing we already have some scenes, for example Nika tied up in the locker room , at least for me is humiliating... Who knows if we end up in other similar situation, for example if Nika makes Vanessa angry who know what can happen, or maybe if Nika starts dating Zara or Bella and he ends up cheating on them... Maybe some type of revenge could exits, even if is just some thing like a false rumor spreading about Nika as a revenge or i don´t know, i think those things are humiliating too, would be better imo if humiliation appears in some sex scene, of course... But i don´t think that is in Ocean´s mind.

Anyway i think is really easy to satisfy those things, for example: Maja tied up Nika and she makes fun of him while she is putting a big dildo inside his... Okay, too much, but you know what i mean. In this situation Nika has agreed to do that and is just the "spice" in the moment that makes this humiliation thing appear. I don´t know, i doubt this is going to happen like i would like but i choose to believe in it for now

 

[Dr.TSoni]

As much as I'd love that to be the case, Vic is really in our way

Okay, but then don't say I never do anything for you.