VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.99] [WeirdWorld]

[sexoffended]

Yeah, I edited my post because I misjudged your point. There are a few reasons why I think Nyx can resurrect from nothing.

1. Duncan is willing to die to give Nico the chance to take out Ella and he has mentioned numerous times that he is protected by the Reaper. Duncan is an old member of Nyx's team and he probably knows exactly how this works. Also Nico is way too quick to accept his judgement without even a goodbye when she considers herself better than Ella and is already empowered with Clark's power. Nico kills by transporting her victims to the sun. I don't think you can come back from this.

Edit: To add to this, Nico may be able to just transport Ella to a faraway planet and then just retrieve Duncan's corpse . However I doubt that space can actually kill Ella or most level 5s for this matter. They don't need to breath, Ella's body is significantly stronger than Nico's who is confirmed to be able to survive it for weeks, and high level Superhumans don't actually need propulsion to travel, they can just manipulate their energy. So Ella will come back, perhaps in a year, but she will come back. And even if she can't, Hex can do it for her.

2. Ella has probably marked Christie and Emily. However those 2 are just human. If attacked by a monster, it's quite likely that they will get eaten or their body will be left in such a stated that it will be hard to find even a small piece of it. And that's without considering what apocalypse Ella will bring to Earth.

Both present Duncan and the victims of Gorgon have a common point. They are actively affected by someone else's power. Perhaps that's the reason why she can't bring them back. Also I'm quite interested in why Nyx doesn't just use her death ray on Duncan to kill him. If that's her main offensive power and it's confirmed that he can ressurect the people she personally kills, why burn him down in the first place?

Anyway, that's the reasons I think that she is capable of restoring someone from nothing as long as she has preserve their soul. But you make a good point. The Gorgon one is very interesting and it's not like my arguments are fullproof.

However my suggestion of Truth still holds because even if she can't restore a body from nothing, she seems capable of restoring it despite the injuries suffered, which is in line with what Eisheth can do. It does open a possibility for Creation though, similar to how Deryl can regenerate flesh with his Elixir.



I mentioned this about Nyx and left the chance for Dark open, but it's not as clear cut. Nyx stops Michael's energy but not Tiffany's light. She only drains Tiffany when she catches her in her hand. This effect can easily be attributed to Power, similarly to how Michael is capable of absorbing energy and draining other Superhumans. Michael is just a level 2 so his draining effect wouldn't be that amazing anyway. Nyx on the other hand is an extremely advanced level 5, so if she has a similar power, it would be easy to apply it to Tiffany.
Dark is not out of the question, but since she has some similarities to Michael, I'd rather support this angle.

As for the Memory monster having a Dark component for the imitation, sure, it's a possibility, but the monster report mentions simple things like making Armor and a Sword from shadow material. It's quite a jump to extend this to using someone else's powers, especially when Xanthe sets a different precedent.

I won't rule it out completely, but I want to see how Langdon's powers work, which I attribute to the Dark too. If Langdon is capable of using a monster or superhuman body to it's full effect, then perhaps there is more to Dark than what I think.



Hmm, it's obvious that we view the Truth trait differently. In fact we seem to view it completely opposite.
To use your own examples, I think the Truth power is about letting the rock drop and deciding that the correct way to fall is up instead of down, which is probably why Eisheth has telekinetic powers in the first place. Inside Eisheth's domain, not every action has a reaction, rocks fall to the sky, not to the ground, Death is just a suggestion, not a fact. It's exactly what she says, "I decide what is Truth".

Your idea seems to me more like determinism. I like it but I can't observe it in the game in a form that will persuade me that's the case.

Nyx failed to contain Tiffany because of her light form, not power drain. Also her passive aura "deadens" everything around her monster energy included. Not as complete as Valravn, but she is still capable of nullifying supernatural phenomena. She likely was infected by a monster with high Dark and Memory lineage further developed by her with each evolution, judging by her incomplete and yet distinct traits.

Langdon probably has a mix of Dark and Authority lineage. He's described to be able to possess someone as long as his energy pool is bigger to completely suppress his target's power. Dark makes his ranged intangible form, Authority suppresses his host (both Apostles are also present in Minyak). There's also a possibility for him to be able to use host's abilities like Jake. Biggest question would be how his power is impacted by proximity to and will of his target.

 

[jak1165]

Out of curiosity, What did you guys name the mc and the mc's superhero name?

I just named mine Deacon Killgrave cause it sounded edgy and his superhero name Blacklight (based from the virus in the prototype games)

First time I played the game I had been playing Deus Ex so the protagonist was named JC Denton and the superhero name was Daedalus

 

[KingAgamemnon]

Yeah, I edited my post because I misjudged your point. There are a few reasons why I think Nyx can resurrect from nothing.

1. Duncan is willing to die to give Nico the chance to take out Ella and he has mentioned numerous times that he is protected by the Reaper. Duncan is an old member of Nyx's team and he probably knows exactly how this works. Also Nico is way too quick to accept his judgement without even a goodbye when she considers herself better than Ella and is already empowered with Clark's power. Nico kills by transporting her victims to the sun. I don't think you can come back from this.

Edit: To add to this, Nico may be able to just transport Ella to a faraway planet and then just retrieve Duncan's corpse . However I doubt that space can actually kill Ella or most level 5s for this matter. They don't need to breath, Ella's body is significantly stronger than Nico's who is confirmed to be able to survive it for weeks, and high level Superhumans don't actually need propulsion to travel, they can just manipulate their energy. So Ella will come back, perhaps in a year, but she will come back. And even if she can't, Hex can do it for her.

2. Ella has probably marked Christie and Emily. However those 2 are just human. If attacked by a monster, it's quite likely that they will get eaten or their body will be left in such a stated that it will be hard to find even a small piece of it. And that's without considering what apocalypse Ella will bring to Earth.

Both present Duncan and the victims of Gorgon have a common point. They are actively affected by someone else's power. Perhaps that's the reason why she can't bring them back. Also I'm quite interested in why Nyx doesn't just use her death ray on Duncan to kill him. If that's her main offensive power and it's confirmed that he can ressurect the people she personally kills, why burn him down in the first place?

Anyway, that's the reasons I think that she is capable of restoring someone from nothing as long as she has preserve their soul. But you make a good point. The Gorgon one is very interesting and it's not like my arguments are fullproof.

However my suggestion of Truth still holds because even if she can't restore a body from nothing, she seems capable of restoring it despite the injuries suffered, which is in line with what Eisheth can do. It does open a possibility for Creation though, similar to how Deryl can regenerate flesh with his Elixir.



I mentioned this about Nyx and left the chance for Dark open, but it's not as clear cut. Nyx stops Michael's energy but not Tiffany's light. She only drains Tiffany when she catches her in her hand. This effect can easily be attributed to Power, similarly to how Michael is capable of absorbing energy and draining other Superhumans. Michael is just a level 2 so his draining effect wouldn't be that amazing anyway. Nyx on the other hand is an extremely advanced level 5, so if she has a similar power, it would be easy to apply it to Tiffany.
Dark is not out of the question, but since she has some similarities to Michael, I'd rather support this angle.

As for the Memory monster having a Dark component for the imitation, sure, it's a possibility, but the monster report mentions simple things like making Armor and a Sword from shadow material. It's quite a jump to extend this to using someone else's powers, especially when Xanthe sets a different precedent.

I won't rule it out completely, but I want to see how Langdon's powers work, which I attribute to the Dark too. If Langdon is capable of using a monster or superhuman body to it's full effect, then perhaps there is more to Dark than what I think.



Hmm, it's obvious that we view the Truth trait differently. In fact we seem to view it completely opposite.
To use your own examples, I think the Truth power is about letting the rock drop and deciding that the correct way to fall is up instead of down, which is probably why Eisheth has telekinetic powers in the first place. Inside Eisheth's domain, not every action has a reaction, rocks fall to the sky, not to the ground, Death is just a suggestion, not a fact. It's exactly what she says, "I decide what is Truth".

Your idea seems to me more like determinism. I like it but I can't observe it in the game in a form that will persuade me that's the case.

I think that Truth can be used in the way you describe, but I also see it as being able to operate as I explained, since that is what makes the most sense to me. Thematically, what you describe is much more like a Reality power or what Agaeclifw described Order, or however her name is spelled, to be like.

Eisheth's power is the ability to enforce her own truths within her domain, whereas Deus's power is the ability to divine truths about the future and other people and things. This is what I meant about Truth being "flowery"; it can be very literal as in the ability to control truths, or more metaphorical, which allows Deus to do stuff like see the future and know he's in a dream.

As for determinism, I feel like if it didn't exist, and people could just change their fates on a whim, then Time powers that allow you to interact with past and future selfs seem kinda worthless since the whole point is that by doing so you change fate. Narratively, Deus pretty strongly seems to indicate that something like fate exists, especially when things go outside the expectations, like when MC is taken over by the Apostle, and he says something to the effect of "this wasn't supposed to happen." And i figure this situation is only possible because of meta reasons; that is to say, we players have the ability to change the fate of the MC because if we couldn't it would just be a novel.

 

[SASHAKAMEN]

what is the difference between 0.975 and 0.976?

 

[KingAgamemnon]

what is the difference between 0.975 and 0.976?

Minor bug/text fixes. 0.975 was the beta release and 0.976 is the full public release

 

[kibaris]

Considering the very conceptual nature of his abilities, I have to say that Deus screams Truth to me, with a strong helping of Memory. Memory explains a lot of precognition, whereas Truth fits as the most cleanly conceptually based power among the 12 apostles. Possibly some small amount of Space too for the reasons you mentioned.

I replayed that part and i would agree more with Gt here..., look

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Deus attack with ray of light, and the way he made them appear directly inside mc body made me think of Nico and Hexeringe, and mc said that Deus flee through a tear in space. so likely ether + light ( Deus attacks are base on light) + memory or time when Eiseth and Elijah attack are more about kinetic energy and moving things (like Elijah with is gadget or what Eiseth did with Shen before Nico come to our rescue)

 

[harem.king]

Yeah, I edited my post because I misjudged your point. There are a few reasons why I think Nyx can resurrect from nothing.

1. Duncan is willing to die to give Nico the chance to take out Ella and he has mentioned numerous times that he is protected by the Reaper. Duncan is an old member of Nyx's team and he probably knows exactly how this works.

Didn't Nyx explicitly tell us how it works?

She "marks" someone.
Once marked, she can resurrect them.
She has a limited number of marks she can maintain. And as such only important / high leveled individuals get marked.
She then marks the MC so she can resurrect him should he die.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

I replayed that part and i would agree more with Gt here..., look

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Deus attack with ray of light, and the way he made them appear directly inside mc body made me think of Nico and Hexeringe, and mc said that Deus flee through a tear in space. so likely ether + light ( Deus attacks are base on light) + memory or time when Eiseth and Elijah attack are more about kinetic energy and moving things (like Elijah with is gadget or what Eiseth did with Shen before Nico come to our rescue)

If I'm not mistaken, it was confirmed that Deus has absolutely no Time in him. And I don't dismiss his offensive traits being pretty heavily space + light, i just think that his future sight and divination abilities are emblematic to me of Truth. In fact i can see how, using Eiseth as our comparison, how such light based attacks could also work under Truth instead of Space or Light.

 

[lorkdubo]

If I'm not mistaken, it was confirmed that Deus has absolutely no Time in him. And I don't dismiss his offensive traits being pretty heavily space + light, i just think that his future sight and divination abilities are emblematic to me of Truth. In fact i can see how, using Eiseth as our comparison, how such light based attacks could also work under Truth instead of Space or Light.

I mean. Time does not exist per se. I like the concept of causality more. But... Causal structure does act as a foundation for Space and Time.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

I mean. Time does not exist per se. I like the concept of causality more. But... Causal structure does act as a foundation for Space and Time.

In the interest in not going on a rant, I will simply say that "Time is an illusion" is abjectly false. The only illusory thing about time is the concept of the present. Events still occur, even if observers may disagree about which order they occurred in. Time not existing would be a real big problem considering we have a whole Apostle based around it, so clearly the future and the past must exist to some degree, otherwise all we have are like time stop or slow or speed up abilities, which is very narrow for such a fundamental property.

And I agree that causality is more of a Space-Time thing than a Truth thing, but it appears WW is going the route of Truth being the reality warper of the apostlespawn. Gtdead goes further into that route as Truth being an enforcer of 'subjective reality', whereas I assert that Deus exhibits the trait more passively as someone who 'perceives the truth/reality in all things'.

 

[Gtdead]

Didn't Nyx explicitly tell us how it works?

She "marks" someone.
Once marked, she can resurrect them.
She has a limited number of marks she can maintain. And as such only important / high leveled individuals get marked.
She then marks the MC so she can resurrect him should he die.

Well yes, but the question we are trying to answer is how does she ressurect someone?
Does she need to touch the body?
Does she need to be near where the individual died?
Does she just make it happen as long as the individual is dead without regard for distance and leftover body?

If Nico sends Duncan to the sun, is Nyx even capable of bringing him back? Does a drop of sweat or blood suffice?
Depending on how she does it, the trait that gives her that ability can be different.

 

[harem.king]

Well yes, but the question we are trying to answer is how does she ressurect someone?
Does she need to touch the body?
Does she need to be near where the individual died?
Does she just make it happen as long as the individual is dead without regard for distance and leftover body?

If Nico sends Duncan to the sun, is Nyx even capable of bringing him back? Does a drop of sweat or blood suffice?
Depending on how she does it, the trait that gives her that ability can be different.

Oh, I see.
Well, she marks you before you are sent to go out alone to enemy territory... so, my guess is that she needs nothing beyond the mark itself
but we won't know until it becomes relevant

 

[kibaris]

Oh, I see.
Well, she marks you before you are sent to go out alone to enemy territory... so, my guess is that she needs nothing beyond the mark itself
but we won't know until it becomes re

Nico exist ^^, and during Diamond Battle Nyx asked Nico to send her in when a third of the people she marked died.

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[harem.king]

Nico exist ^^ and during Diamond Battle she asked to send her in when a third of the people she marked died.

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Good points.

Although... it might be because being there makes it easier and she has to resurrect such a sheer quantity of people that she needs the cost savings from being there.

Alternatively...
She says "now is a good time for me to get involved" not "now is a good time for me to resurrect them"
Her "get involved" is to go in and kill Ella, not go in to resurrect people.

 

[kibaris]

Good points.
Although... it might be because being there makes it easier and she has to resurrect such a sheer quantity of people that she needs the cost savings from being there.

it could be, but when she resurrect people, she usualy have their body like with Duncan when he failed to evolve or even now in Hero base when she burned him and resurrected him, their also is the gorgon mission when the operation officer said that she cant turn stone to flesh again, And when mc devoured Christie during a dead end, it seems like she couldn be restored (even if it's not Nyx that marked Christie but her monster parent).
Of course none of that is irefutable proof, but they still let us think that she need at least something to work to, (even for Ella her body is still in Hero base and no doubt that she will return at some point)

Edit, for Nyx going to Ella it's unlikely because that scene is close to the begining of Diamond battle and they dont know where she is at that point, also Nico who left after Nyx is there before Nyx,who appears only much later after Nico could fight Ella (and we even see Nyx with Duncan (a member of her team) to save Laurie from a monster after that she was 'send in')

 

[kibaris]

I've been thinking about these dream sequences and i have revised my judgment about whom could appear

We can see that 1 to 6 are either direct spawn of apostle (like Jake Michael and Ella) , directly a chosen (Syla) or spawn of a Chosen ( Alice)
Only Claudia doesnt fit that patern but we know that HERO collect avatar from apostle so it's not impossible.

For 7 to 12 it's almost certain that 8th and 12 will be Tiffany and Deryl (avatar from 8th and Rebis spawn)
are left

7- could be Valravn, Sylla talk about fierce Ennemy and he definitly fit and also are a chosen

9- Elijah is a spawn of a monster from Eiseth lineage and Eiseth said that he could call him mother , so maybe he could have inerited a pure trait

I also had a theory about Christie who would be turned into a superhuman one whay or another and inherit a non fighting power like seeing in the future maybe? (because so far all power like that are monopolized by HERO) and also close to mc.
She was obsessed with the truth about Ella's past and had a bigger role in the latest update ( she helped a lot with Ellla's doll)
And she is a very sexual character like Eiseth from 9th and since WW surprised us with Claudia whom isnt a superhuman yet it could be a possibility.

10- the one I'm the least certain about,only two character have fiting power, Demi, but it dont look that she will have a big role in the story and her power look more like a mix between autority and 10, also we can see the monster that turned her and since he isnt a chosen, he would have to be an apostle (but it's unlikely because of that memories mc had during is first evolution)

the other with a fiting power is Shen, we dont know is monster parent and he tried to kidnap Liz and Amber and maintain mc in that dream + they fighted a little so it could be enough since mc was wrongly thinking about Deus in dream about time, but that cult dont seem to acknowledge him like they do with Devana and Evander so it doesnt look like it but he still a good possibility.

Like Claudia or my theory about Christie for 5 and 9 it could also be someone who isnt a superhuman yet and we definitly have some teasing about Emily inerhiting one trait, and if it isnt 7 it could be 10 but i dont have more argument here and it would be through an apostle avatar from HERO maybe since they collect them.

11- Evander would be the best fit , he seem to be a direct spawn of and apostle or is dead avatar from what that cult said and he have a link with mc through their fight and he also tried to kidnap Liz and Amber.

edit : And if i'm wrong about all of them being apostle spawn, chosen or chosen spawn.

Maybe Nyx could be a good option for 7th, with how she handle Michael and Tiffany during their evolution, Henri could be a good option for 9 since he seem to be capable rewrite reality (and it could explain why it's so dangerous to be around him ) , and Lisa ask him to stop fucking with her library's sign" so it's seem like the change is real , and Danica for 11th have a fiting power and fought and can bond a little with mc during a hunt.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

I've been thinking about these dream sequences and i have revised my judgment about whom could appear

We can see that 1 to 6 are either direct spawn of apostle (like Jake Michael and Ella) , directly a chosen (Syla) or spawn of a Chosen ( Alice)
Only Claudia doesnt fit that patern but we know that HERO collect avatar from apostle so it's not impossible.

For 7 to 12 it's almost certain that 8th and 12 will be Tiffany and Deryl (avatar from 8th and Rebis spawn)
are left

7- could be Valravn, Sylla talk about fierce Ennemy and he definitly fit and also are a chosen

9- Elijah is a spawn of a monster from Eiseth lineage and Eiseth said that he could call him mother , so maybe he could have inerited a pure trait

I also had a theory about Christie who would be turned into a superhuman one whay or another and inherit a non fighting power like seeing in the future maybe? (because so far all power like that are monopolized by HERO) and also close to mc.
She was obsessed with the truth about Ella's past and had a bigger role in the latest update ( she helped a lot with Ellla's doll)
And she is a very sexual character like Eiseth from 9th and since WW surprised us with Claudia whom isnt a superhuman yet it could be a possibility.

10- the one I'm the least certain about,only two character have fiting power, Demi, but it dont look that she will have a big role in the story and her power look more like a mix between autority and 10, also we can see the monster that turned her and since he isnt a chosen, he would have to be an apostle (but it's unlikely because of that memories mc had during is first evolution)

the other with a fiting power is Shen, we dont know is monster parent and he tried to kidnap Liz and Amber and maintain mc in that dream + they fighted a little so it could be enough since mc was wrongly thinking about Deus in dream about time, but that cult dont seem to acknowledge him like they do with Devana and Evander so it doesnt look like it but he still a good possibility.

Like Claudia or my theory about Christie for 5 and 9 it could also be someone who isnt a superhuman yet and we definitly have some teasing about Emily inerhiting one trait, and if it isnt 7 it could be 10 but i dont have more argument here and it would be through an apostle avatar from HERO maybe since they collect them.

11- Evander would be the best fit , he seem to be a direct spawn of and apostle or is dead avatar from what that cult said and he have a link with mc through their fight and he also tried to kidnap Liz and Amber.

edit : And if i'm wrong about all of them being apostle spawn, chosen or chosen spawn.

Maybe Nyx could be a good option for 7th, with how she handle Michael and Tiffany during their evolution, Henri could be a good option for 9 since he seem to be capable rewrite reality (and it could explain why it's so dangerous to be around him ) , and Lisa ask him to stop fucking with her library's sign" so it's seem like the change is real , and Danica for 11th have a fiting power and fought and can bond a little with mc during a hunt.

But we already saw Nyx through the sensations we felt in between the dreams, so it would be weird for her to show up again

 

[kibaris]

But we already saw Nyx through the sensations we felt in between the dreams, so it would be weird for her to show up again

same can be said about Syla , yet she appear for memory and in the anomaly in mc memories (because the one that locked mc memories is likely Syla, also Nyx said this " Visit me here again some times and we'll see. I'll admit... it does get lonely here some night...", so if i'm wrong about what i said in my other post, she could still be a possibility .

 

[Gtdead]

But we already saw Nyx through the sensations we felt in between the dreams, so it would be weird for her to show up again

Nyx and Bailey pretty much invite MC to come back again. So the possibility exists to see them again in the next update and it seems to me that their content will be significant. Nyx's will probably be romantic but Bailey talks about another world and some oddities without any precedent. I'm very excited about Bailey's content, not necessarily due to her character, but she is a link to very interesting things.

I think it will depend a lot on how MC will experience his Memory powers from now on. Will his dreams start becoming more active in general, even after he returns to his normal routine?
If no then I expect to see them shortly.
If yes, then Nyx and Bailey may get a lot of content that way but it will probably come at a later time.

 

[DrakoGhoul]

I guess I'll chime in since I was catching up with the thread.

7th - Almost certainly Valravn unless WW uses this as an opportunity to show the 7th again. MC has got memories about the 7th, even when he never encountered it on that dead end. So this could be another Deus moment, since MC never actually used his memories on or connected to Deus yet he's there for the 5th Apostle stuff. There's also Nyx.

Then again, there's nothing that say Danica couldn't appear here actually. Her X mark the spot is undetectable and can rip through just about anything as long as she stares at it long enough. You can't even detect it unless she shows you first. She could definitely be a wild card for multiple apostle spots.

8th - Definitely Tiffany but could be Clark. They're both closely related so there's a chance MC sees both of them. Maybe Oscar as well. Slim chance for Dani.

9th - Eisheth since he saw her memories through her blood, which is unavoidable. It could be Henri or Elijah too.

10th - Shen is the most direct but if WW did change Aglaecwif's origin, this would be the likely candidate since she's still a Chosen of a single Apostle. Especially since she was previewed next to Shen and it wouldn't be too shocking if she actually turned him. Or, Demi, maybe.

11th - Plenty of options really. Nyx, Malik, Klaus, and Evander. Maybe Danica, though I doubt it as you can easily put her in Light or Darkness as well with her power, Cross Light. Klaus gets overlooked here, but his powers are actually pretty destructive. Not as potent as Evander but those two abilities function pretty much the same and MC actually could've did the same thing to Evander that he did to Klaus.

12th - Plenty as well. Devana, Deryl, Tanos, Rebis, Alexis and even Lucius. Deryl would actually be the boring pick here since we know about him already. I honestly don't think the dream sequence would be interesting like Alice, Michael or Ella were when we saw them. I could be wrong, but maybe Deryl isn't used here.

To be honest, I don't think we're going to even see the other six Apostles, personally. At least not via the dream. We'll probably learn about them when MC wakes up. The cult will likely spread their gospel to him like they did with Evander and Devana during the infiltration. Maybe even another Chosen, like Rebis or Aglaecwif, might encounter him. Rebis might find his birth interesting and want to compare him to his engineered creations. Aglaecwif is for obvious reasons.

That's just me though. Maybe WW just gets all of the introductions for the Apostles out of the way in the dreams now. I also could be wrong about who appears in what dream.