VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.99] [WeirdWorld]

[Gtdead]

What follows the "rule of cool" that WW would be able to convey/draw and still fit with overall lore .

I wonder how much his fighting will change because memory is on the opposite end of "fighting styles". One is "oooga boooga zombieboi smash" and the other would presumably be more esoteric. That also makes me think about how WW will show the powers during a fight scene which could greatly impact what MC uses in battle.

For example: what would the player see if MC used "nightmare" just a line of text describing it? Or would we get a full look into it? And how would that effect the flow of the fight etc

Truth be told, Memory Echo as an attack was "shown" only against Deryl. Past that we just assume what it does but we aren't shown. Against Claire he describes how it interacts with the corruption but not much else. I expect the mental attacks to be given similar attention, just a mention of what memory MC uses/deletes/manipulates for maximum impact. We also have the Jake and Shen precedents. Sometimes WW shows the effects, other times they are implied. Shen's illusions for example start getting wild towards the end of the fight, while Command: Pain was reduced the a "ghgahahghaaahg" from MC and we could never judge the actual damage done.

I'm certain that MC won't favor direct memory attacks anyway. He will only use them against someone like Evander who is exceptionally strong against Physical attacks.

 

[Gtdead]

AFAIK just from memoryscape connection alone MC can communicate with his allies, dead or alive, and spy on his enemies given he made strong enough impression. Flashbacks and illusions are a good possibility. Anything like memory blocks will probably be heavily limited if not in speed then definitely in power, as we gradually start to enter territory of the 1st.

During the last update WW removed a lot of text that made it seem like Authority can affect Memories. He completely changed how people understand Jake's weight loss, he made it seem like Laurie remembers but can't think about her time with Troy against Ella. I also think that he added dialogue to Ella making a remark how Authrority isn't meant to be used for Memory manipulation.

So everything Jake did to affect other's "perception" of him was crossing into Memory's territory. He literally removed every mention of the word memory in Jake's abilities and the timing of the "retcon" coincides very well with MC learning new memory stuff. I have a post in the offtopic listing all the changes in dialogue.

edit: What are the differences anyway?
For me the difference is fairly clear. Authority works on Behavior, Memory works on Perception.
Under Authority, If A kills B, he will know what he did, but couldn't do otherwise and may not question the reasons why he did it, thinking he was in the right.
Under Memory, If A kills B, he won't exactly know what he did, either because he forgot about it or because he remembered the scene/victim differently.

The difference with Illusion is that
Under Memory, if A kills B, only A will think that something seemed wrong about B.
Under Illusion, if A kills B, everyone will agree that something seemed wrong with B.

Edit: Found it
https://f95zone.to/threads/superhuman-off-topic-discussion.174695/post-12816370

 

[Marvoch]

A little change of focus. It's a thing a thought about a lot during the game. In your opinion how much of a difference will sparing or absorping Jake will do? With the last development of MC Memory powers and is inner world, it could be a big change in power, but I'm not that sure.

 

[Simpgor]

A little change of focus. It's a thing a thought about a lot during the game. In your opinion how much of a difference will sparing or absorping Jake will do? With the last development of MC Memory powers and is inner world, it could be a big change in power, but I'm not that sure.

Given the "meta" of a visual novel the change won't be that big until near the end. This update was the first time that it's really "come into play" and him being alive/dead doesn't create very different scenarios.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

During the last update WW removed a lot of text that made it seem like Authority can affect Memories. He completely changed how people understand Jake's weight loss, he made it seem like Laurie remembers but can't think about her time with Tony against Ella. I also think that he added dialogue to Ella making a remark how Authrority isn't meant to be used for Memory manipulation.

So everything Jake did to affect other's "perception" of him was crossing into Memory's territory. He literally removed every mention of the word memory in Jake's abilities and the timing of the "retcon" coincides very well with MC learning new memory stuff. I have a post in the offtopic listing all the changes in dialogue.

edit: What are the differences anyway?
For me the difference is fairly clear. Authority works on Behavior, Memory works on Perception.
Under Authority, If A kills B, he will know what he did, but couldn't do otherwise and may not question the reasons why he did it, thinking he was in the right.
Under Memory, If A kills B, he won't exactly know what he did, either because he forgot about it or because he remembered the scene/victim differently.

The difference with Illusion is that
Under Memory, if A kills B, only A will think that something seemed wrong about B.
Under Illusion, if A kills B, everyone will agree that something seemed wrong with B.

Edit: Found it
https://f95zone.to/threads/superhuman-off-topic-discussion.174695/post-12816370

This makes me wonder, is Jake actually thin now, or is he still projecting his "thinness" onto other people. And if so, shouldn't we be strong enough to see through it now?

 

[Gtdead]

A little change of focus. It's a thing a thought about a lot during the game. In your opinion how much of a difference will sparing or absorping Jake will do? With the last development of MC Memory powers and is inner world, it could be a big change in power, but I'm not that sure.

We actually have a 4th Wall break in this instance:

label killweak3:
Unknown "More."
Unknown "We need more."
You "H-Huh? *snore*"
Unknown "Every opportunity. Every single one. Always devour. Always."
Unknown "Our end requires it."

Frankly I don't expect that characters as weak as Kenny, Bailey, Danica and Jake will matter in terms of power. At most they have a few tens of power. But if the "end requires it", it probably means that MC must get confident at consuming, which may allow him to consume even stronger beings at some later point.

The other possibility is that MC will eventually start making copies of these people. If he can make a copy of Jake, imbued with MC's own power, that would be extremely potent.

Bailey while not important, is probably required to show MC the way. She is talking about another world she visits inside MC's consciousness. Who knows what this will turn out to be.

So my prediction is that it will unlock an ending. However it probably won't happen out of the blue. As we approach the end, the differences between the two routes will become more pronounced.

This makes me wonder, is Jake actually thin now, or is he still projecting his "thinness" onto other people. And if so, shouldn't we be strong enough to see through it now?

With this new change I doubt that Jake can make people see him as thin anyway. At most he can make them think that fat is attractive.
But anyway, Jake confirms he has changed.

Jake "(I'm not even fat anymore, does his mind not register the inconsistency? I've got to get this thing under control.)"

 

[sexoffended]

During the last update WW removed a lot of text that made it seem like Authority can affect Memories. He completely changed how people understand Jake's weight loss, he made it seem like Laurie remembers but can't think about her time with Tony against Ella. I also think that he added dialogue to Ella making a remark how Authrority isn't meant to be used for Memory manipulation.

So everything Jake did to affect other's "perception" of him was crossing into Memory's territory. He literally removed every mention of the word memory in Jake's abilities and the timing of the "retcon" coincides very well with MC learning new memory stuff. I have a post in the offtopic listing all the changes in dialogue.

edit: What are the differences anyway?
For me the difference is fairly clear. Authority works on Behavior, Memory works on Perception.
Under Authority, If A kills B, he will know what he did, but couldn't do otherwise and may not question the reasons why he did it, thinking he was in the right.
Under Memory, If A kills B, he won't exactly know what he did, either because he forgot about it or because he remembered the scene/victim differently.

The difference with Illusion is that
Under Memory, if A kills B, only A will think that something seemed wrong about B.
Under Illusion, if A kills B, everyone will agree that something seemed wrong with B.

Edit: Found it
https://f95zone.to/threads/superhuman-off-topic-discussion.174695/post-12816370

Honestly, I find theory about 10th being Illusion a complete malarkey, and Authority is shown to be perfectly capable of suppressing memories, because remembering something is a behaviour. Jake's weight loss always was about everyone just being affected by his power and ignoring it. Changes are mostly here to remove any potential confusion.

Memory changes perception of the past, not present, unless it somehow manifested into reality, as illusion (Shen) or otherwise (whatever Nico sent sunbathing).

 

[kibaris]

Honestly, I find theory about 10th being Illusion a complete malarkey, and Authority is shown to be perfectly capable of suppressing memories, because remembering something is a behaviour. Jake's weight loss always was about everyone just being affected by his power and ignoring it. Changes are mostly here to remove any potential confusion.

Memory changes perception of the past, not present, unless it somehow manifested into reality, as illusion (Shen) or otherwise (whatever Nico sent sunbathing).

Except for the fact that Autority doesnt suppress them, they block the action to thinking about them, Laurie is aware of it and her memories are still there,she just dont make the connection with Jake power.
It's the same with Jake weight loss, he forced other to think about it beeing normal a certain way , Mc still know that Jake was overweight , because he was more powerfull than Jake and knew him before, when other affected by his power couldnt think about it because of his power prevented them to do so.

With memories power like what Sylla did to mc, he was aware that memory are missing but cant remember anything at all. he can think about them and any way he want but it doesnt change anything , there's just nothing to think about.

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and with enough power you can surpass that order, like mc did in prison

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[Marvoch]

Honestly, I find theory about 10th being Illusion a complete malarkey

Why doesn't it make sense for the tenth to be Illusion? In the end, Shen has powers based on illusion and dream manipulation (so they exist), and Eisheth is the direct progeny of the ninth and all her powers are built around rewriting the reality to her benefit. Given the general trend of the apostles' power pairs, this seems reasonable as an assumption. Will (mental), Power (physical); Body (physical), Memory (mental); Space and Time are in clear antithesis. So the opposite of reality is illusion, or at most dreams or imagination.

 

[myst0501]

Honestly, I find theory about 10th being Illusion a complete malarkey, and Authority is shown to be perfectly capable of suppressing memories, because remembering something is a behaviour. Jake's weight loss always was about everyone just being affected by his power and ignoring it. Changes are mostly here to remove any potential confusion.

Memory changes perception of the past, not present, unless it somehow manifested into reality, as illusion (Shen) or otherwise (whatever Nico sent sunbathing).

Superhuman powers may come from different sources/origins, but that doesn't mean they can't be applied for similar overlapping results. Jake commanding someone to forget something is a good example.

Frankly, I fail to see why the mc couldn't replicate all of the powers jake has shown so far with their own memory powers once he's become experienced enough with them.

I also dispute that memory can't change your "present". Even by the time light bounces of an object we may be looking at and enters our eyes, a small fraction of time has passed. Given that, it is entirely plausible to say everything we are looking at any given moment actually exists a fractions of a fraction of time in the past. With that in mind, there is no reason memory cannot generate real time illusions by messing with someones memories of their perceived present moment.

 

[kibaris]

Superhuman powers may come from different sources, but I that doesn't mean that can't be applied for similar overlapping results. Jake commanding someone to forget something is a good example.

Frankly, I fail to see how to see why the mc couldn't replicate all of the powers jake has shown so far with their memory powers once he's experienced enough with them.

I also dispute that memory can't change your "present". Even by the time light bounces of an object we may be looking at and enters our eyes, a small fraction of time has passed. Given that, it is entirely plausible to say everything we are looking at any given moment actually exists a fractions of a fraction of time in the past. With that in mind, there is not reason memory cannot generate real time illusions by messing with someones memories.

A monster with memory can already doing that, the one that look like Sylla

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and i'm willing to bet that Sylla will teach something similar to mc .

 

[Marvoch]

A monster with memory can already doing that, the one that look like Sylla

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and i'm willing to bet that Sylla will teach something similar to mc .

Yeah! That's what it also think. He will be able to replicate other powers via memory and body. Obv limited by his own power cap and maybe skill set.

 

[kibaris]

For 10 beeing Illusion, i would think that with 9 beeing Truth, 10 will simply be Lie where would fall every form of deception like illusion.
And both would fall under Reality who would be the 4th arbiter.

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for the 1st, we have voice, will,words and he's god's will
for the 2nd every word refer to strenght( lifting, energy,might) and he's god's strenght
for the 3rd basis of life, Origin, flesh and he's god's form
for the 4rd history, adaptation,evolution and he's god's insight
for the 5th we have eyes mind and patience and he's god's age
for the 6th we have the expansion of universe , and he's god space.

For 9 and 10 il could be god's deceit and god's right falling under reality, one bending it to make things true and the other to deceiving with lies

 

[Gtdead]

Thinking about what expressions the various Traits have is a bit like changing ghosts. We also have small nuggets of info that really mess with my perception.

Examples:
1. Ella suggests that Jake's power is much more mentally oriented than it should. She says that he is the type of person who cares more about people than things.

This is extremely interesting, as it's suggests that Authority can be used for objects, not just living beings. The question is.. how?

-At first I thought that it would be some form of telekinesis, or commanding objects to float, perform various functions etc. This is the power of the Ninth...

- It also can't be the ability to change matter's state. That would be part of Body's power. For example commanding things to melt, freeze, explode etc.
- Messing with their energy should be part of Power. Things like forcing items to combust etc.
- Turning them into living objects would be the domain of Creation.
- Annihilating them would be the domain of Destruction.

Does anyone have any idea who Authority could be applied to objects? The only thing I can think of is ..asking a door to open? Basically asking any object to perform the function it was made for? This whole thing seems extremely restrictive compared to Ella's proposal.

I guess if you could ask Tectonic Plates to move, Earth to stop rotating, or the Sun to stop burning, that would be fucking terrifying but it would also require terrible amounts of power that Jake clearly doesn't possess. And frankly I still think that at this level it messes with Truth's portfolio.

2. WW changed every reference to Jake to make it seem like he absolutely can't interact with Memories.

Even that ability to stop individuals from thinking about their memories seem to be a stretch for his powers.
Ella "You fucked her mind in a serious way. Messing with someone's memories like that... It's not what your powers are for. And using them on her while on the cusp of your evolution? Very dangerous move."

So it seems that the reason Mia's brain got destroyed was because Jake forced her to forget. The only way for the affected to forget is to.. destroy the brain? At least this one kinda makes sense?

3. WW seems to have deleted some old dialogue with Ella saying that her trasmutation power is something that not even the Apostles can do.

I put my hand in the fire about this. I'm certain that such a piece of dialogue existed but I can't find it anywhere. I guess it's not that important, but again I feel that transmutation kinda messes with Truth's portfolio, at least in some of the ways we've seen Ella do it. Perhaps Eisheth's domain is part of a more complex interaction, similar to Valravn's heart?

 

[kibaris]

I guess if you could ask Tectonic Plates to move, Earth to stop rotating, or the Sun to stop burning, that would be fucking terrifying but it would also require terrible amounts of power that Jake clearly doesn't possess. And frankly I still think that at this level it messes with Truth's portfolio.

i think you have something here, "I lift my arms and the world trembles and cracks. " it made me think of earthquake,he could have some influence over the law of nature herself and it would fit with some natural phenomenon, after all lightning during thunderstorm, fire with wildfire , wind with tempest/tornado, ice and heat with temperature ,global warming and ice age.


and all that would fall under the 2nd , and Jake whas supposed to inerit both trait, it could be it since the law of nature is also known as the law of the strongest

Edit

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The power to structure all things, to write the laws that govern the universe, influencing nature could be that, earth by herself isnt a living beeing, Fire,Tornado,Earthquake,lightning, temperature are caused and influenced by something else and arent existing by themself.

 

[Gtdead]

i think you have something here, "I lift my arms and the world trembles and cracks. " it made me think of earthquake,he could have some influence over the law of nature herself and it would fit with some natural phenomenon, after all lightning during thunderstorm, fire with wildfire , wind with tempest/tornado, ice and heat with temperature ,global warming and ice age.


and all that would fall under the 2nd , and Jake whas supposed to inerit both trait, it could be it.

Well sure, but since Jake doesn't seem like having manifested the Power trait at all, I'd guess that Ella was refereing to the Authority trait itself.
This particular quote "I lift my arms and the world trembles and cracks" seems a bit literal to me.

"The arm that did the deed disappears, fading into nothing once more, apparently having accomplished it's task."
scene michael156 with dissolve
"While the other, now points at Michael-"
Michael "(Fuck!!)"
play sound "audio/explodefire.mp3"
scene michael157 with vpunch
"He leaps out of the way immediately. There's no time for thinking or strategy, only acting on what he just saw moments ago, that monster being vaporized by lightning."
"But it's not lightning that fires from its finger, instead an orange beam of blistering energy, scorching a hole through earth, burning god knows how deep."
"Michael avoids it just in the nick of time, the monster not bothering to correct its aim as he dives for the floor."
"But... something is off."

He lifted his arm, threw a ray and according to the narrator it burned a hole who knows how deep. With a bit more effort, he could probably crack the Earth if he wanted to.

 

[myst0501]

Thinking about what expressions the various Traits have is a bit like changing ghosts. We also have small nuggets of info that really mess with my perception.

2. WW changed every reference to Jake to make it seem like he absolutely can't interact with Memories.

Even that ability to stop individuals from thinking about their memories seem to be a stretch for his powers.
Ella "You fucked her mind in a serious way. Messing with someone's memories like that... It's not what your powers are for. And using them on her while on the cusp of your evolution? Very dangerous move."

So it seems that the reason Mia's brain got destroyed was because Jake forced her to forget. The only way for the affected to forget is to.. destroy the brain? At least this one kinda makes sense?

3. WW seems to have deleted some old dialogue with Ella saying that her trasmutation power is something that not even the Apostles can do.

I put my hand in the fire about this. I'm certain that such a piece of dialogue existed but I can't find it anywhere. I guess it's not that important, but again I feel that transmutation kinda messes with Truth's portfolio, at least in some of the ways we've seen Ella do it. Perhaps Eisheth's domain is part of a more complex interaction, similar to Valravn's heart?

2. There is also the case of when Jake ordered Laurie to "Leave and tell no one that you found us, don't even think about what happened today." This resulted in Laurie forgetting without seeming to otherwise damage her mind.

3. That reference to them being unable to use powers is still present in the latest release. Its under label train21 in the eventstraining script.

Ella "Hehe, that's right. It's something that even the monsters that made us can't do."
You "They can't?"
Ella "No. They're transformative power is restricted solely to themselves."

 

[Gtdead]

2. There is also the case of when Jake ordered Laurie to "Leave and tell no one that you found us, don't even think about what happened today." This resulted in Laurie forgetting without seeming to otherwise damage her mind.

Kinda makes sense for Laurie to not suffer adverse effects for this (in comparison to Mia). The dialogue was changed to support that Laurie could not think about it. She tried, she knew that something happened, but her brain wouldn't allow her to think about it.

New Text:
Laurie "It's.... difficult, for me to think about. We were sent out with a bunch of others to search for Ella, the two of us found her and... she killed him."

Old Text:
Laurie "I can't remember.... We were sent out with a bunch of others to search for Ella, so I assume it was her..."

3. That reference to them being unable to use powers is still present in the latest release. Its under label train21 in the eventstraining script.

That's the one. Thanks. I thought it was during MC's visit to the orphanage because it was refering to transmuting matter. This piece of dialogue has some important exposition in my opinion that hits a bit harder since the last update. Ella mentions reading minds without knowing about MC's memory trait. It also supports a few of my newer theories.

What utility are you using to traverse the script? I have a program that combiles all days into a single file and mostly using "grep".

 

[myst0501]

What utility are you using to traverse the script? I have a program that combiles all days into a single file and mostly using "grep".

I just open all the scripts in notepad++, and use its search function there.

 

[Gtdead]

I just open all the scripts in notepad++, and use its search function there.

I'm on Linux so I can't use notepad++. Does that function search through all the different files?
If not perhaps you may get some value out of this. It's sorted by days first (number sort, not text sort), events second: