VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.991] [WeirdWorld]

[vogelbeest]

Any alteration the shapeshifter does is permanent. They don't need to "sustain" the transformation.

In a training scene Ella explains that that is not the case, you have to exert your power to maintain changes.

It's all dependent on the situation... MC tells his regeneration is basically his body wanting to return to it's original state...
As for what exactly is the original state, that's kinda broad for a shapeshifter.. Most bodies changed after becoming a superhuman, but it's mostly changes based on how they see themselves... Alice and Michael probably didn't change due to the serums they've been popping since late childhood... But shapeshifters have more then one "original state" i guess..

The more familiar MC gets with his shapes the easier it will be to recover during fights, against Valravn he managed to re-attach limbs and half his torso, while before anything cut off would liquidify and then evaporate... (he even liquidifies and reforms) Ella being undamaged from Gillibrand's attacks was just not allowing changes to her shape... Control...

Ella is similar to MC, but there's some differences too, Ella has had perfect control on shapeshifting since her first evolution, MC has very good control, but MC's better understanding and instinct seem to be the deciding factors for that.

When MC is practising detection at HERO base, there's no way to detect him in futa form, only the changing itself could be picked up... So any basic shape available to the shapeshifter hardly needs sustenance, it's the active changes during fights that do though because that's mostly adapting limbs tentacles and whatever else constantly...

Ella's body is one of her standard forms... so not much needed to stay like that.
MC returns to his original form too when passed out... Except for that day he knocked himself out and turned into Amber...
It might have been some reflex/instinctive action but it remains a strange event...

 

[myst0501]

In a training scene Ella explains that that is not the case, you have to exert your power to maintain changes. Which either means that at lvl 5 that rule does not apply to her, that WW just forgot about it, or that she is still alive.

Do you have a citation for that? Because numerous times the MC has mentioned he doesn't need to spend energy to maintain different forms, only to make changes.

 

[salomond]

looks great

 

[Fanvor]

Do you have a citation for that? Because numerous times the MC has mentioned he doesn't need to spend energy to maintain different forms, only to make changes.

 

[myst0501]

Hmm, but I guess the reason why it seems like it hasn't be the case is because of the next line she says:

Ella "Correct, very good. It's a relatively inconsequential amount normally,...

 

[Fanvor]

True, but, that explains how she changed from that mass of flesh back to normal, and leaves us with a question of why the lvl 3 mustache is still a tree.

 

[myst0501]

True, but, that explains how she changed from that mass of flesh back to normal, and leaves us with a question of why the lvl 3 mustache is still a tree.

Because Ella put a shit ton of energy into it. The mc thinks this line about fixing tree person:

"(But according to what she told me, he should be able to turn himself back normally if he can focus on taking control of the power, she implanted in him.)"
"(Then again, I'm not sure a tree has that level of consciousness...)"

And the only way to undue would be to counteract the energy ella put into it. The problem for mc is that energy is just so much larger than his.

 

[vogelbeest]

True, but, that explains how she changed from that mass of flesh back to normal, and leaves us with a question of why the lvl 3 mustache is still a tree.

The transformation of Gillibrand is another thing. It's not shapeshifting (own body) but transmutation, the power to shape objects or living matter, much like Ella compresses the hobo's body...
Why she was able to do it, that's the conversation about him not evolving, her 5th evolution power could easily overcome his 3rd evolution defenses, he can't return to his original state since his 3rd evolution power can't undo it... Maybe in several sessions with the help of MC. But this is not a matter of extra flesh, it's another skill/power...

 

[Fanvor]

Because Ella put a shit ton of energy into it. The mc thinks this line about fixing tree person:

"(But according to what she told me, he should be able to turn himself back normally if he can focus on taking control of the power, she implanted in him.)"
"(Then again, I'm not sure a tree has that level of consciousness...)"

And the only way to undue would be to counteract the energy Ella put into it. The problem for mc is that energy is just so much larger than his.

From the line you yourself quoted "But according to what she told me, he should be able to turn himself back normally". In the alley where she killed a hobo she explained that once you stop pouring fresh power into the victim the power that's left inside will get absorbed and changes will revert.

So Rules As Written, either Ella is still alive and continues to feed the transformation, or she is simply able to break the rules. We can safely ignore this part: "(Then again, I'm not sure a tree has that level of consciousness...)", when Mc tried to changed the size of Angelinas breasts in the end of her story they reverted instantly, I would remind you that Mc was lvl 2 at the time while Ange was, and still is, a lvl 1 with next to 0 power, that tells us that consciousness doesn't play part in the process, if I recall correctly Ange didn't even understand she did something, reversal of change just happens, it is a natural process and the amount inside doesn't matter.

 

[Fanvor]

The transformation of Gillibrand is another thing. It's not shapeshifting (own body) but transmutation, the power to shape objects or living matter, much like Ella compresses the hobo's body...
Why she was able to do it, that's the conversation about him not evolving, her 5th evolution power could easily overcome his 3rd evolution defenses, he can't return to his original state since his 3rd evolution power can't undo it... Maybe in several sessions with the help of MC. But this is not a matter of extra flesh, it's another skill/power...

Your answer hinges on the rule breaking 5th evo, which is fair, but, the simple fact is that it's far more likely that Ella is simply continuing to feed the transformation, this answer doesn't force us to make any guesses based on what is possible and gives us an answer based on what we already know.

 

[vogelbeest]

the simple fact is that it's far more likely that Ella is simply continuing to feed the transformation,

Uhm, no the power was put into it to the transformation (and lost)... Like bending a steel bar, you need a certain amount of energy to change the shape but after that it remains in that form... To return it into the original state you need the same amount of energy to undo it... MC isn't losing energy for transforming Niki either, that energy is just lost...

 

[Fanvor]

Uhm, no the power was put into it to the transformation (and lost)... Like bending a steel bar, you need a certain amount of energy to change the shape but after that it remains in that form... To return it into the original state you need the same amount of energy to undo it... MC isn't losing energy for transforming Niki either, that energy is just lost...

Nikki isn't a Superhuman, rules are vastly different.

 

[myst0501]

From the line you yourself quoted "But according to what she told me, he should be able to turn himself back normally". In the alley where she killed a hobo she explained that once you stop pouring fresh power into the victim the power that's left inside will get absorbed and changes will revert.

So Rules As Written, either Ella is still alive and continues to feed the transformation, or she is simply able to break the rules. We can safely ignore this part: "(Then again, I'm not sure a tree has that level of consciousness...)", when Mc tried to changed the size of Angelinas breasts in the end of her story they reverted instantly, I would remind you that Mc was lvl 2 at the time while Ange was, and still is, a lvl 1 with next to 0 power, that tells us that consciousness doesn't play part in the process, if I recall correctly Ange didn't even understand she did something, reversal of change just happens, it is a natural process and the amount inside doesn't matter.

Looking at the statement you posted about ella saying new flesh required energy to maintain it, and things like the hobo being turned into a stone you mentioned. I think a distinction needs to be made between creating new flesh/generating additional mass, and transmuting/altering existing flesh/mass.

It would make sense that generating additional mass would require exponentially more energy to maintain as ella explained further in that conversation, but if altering existing mass required a maintence cost in energy, a number of contradictions would pop up.

 

[Fanvor]

a number of contradictions would pop up.

Like?

 

[myst0501]

one example would be the hobo stone you mentioned. if it had some kind of maintenance cost on it, eventually it would pop back into a beheaded hobo corpse. however ella at that time expressed that it was an ideal way of disposing of and hiding any dead bodies. that wouldn't make any sense if it some point a day/week/month from now it mysteriously turned back into a corpse.

 

[Fanvor]

Like?

And even if I'm wrong and it has nothing to do with continuing to feed the connection, Mustache man has to have more power than Ella, or at least a close amount. So when the connection is broken and he is fighting the energy left inside of him, he should have won almost immediately, the foreign energy doesn't get any "reinforcement" while he can just produce more.

 

[myst0501]

And even if I'm wrong and it has nothing to do with continuing to feed the connection, Mustache man has to have more power than Ella, or at least a close amount. So when the connection is broken and he is fighting the energy left inside of him, he should have won almost immediately, the foreign energy doesn't get any "reinforcement" while he can just produce more.

i don't think ella is feeding any kind of connection, tree person simple lacks the cognizance to try and push it out himself as pointed out by the mc's quotes in my previous post. And/or gillibrand is simple to weak to push out the energy of a level 5 like ella.

 

[Fanvor]

one example would be the hobo stone you mentioned. if it had some kind of maintenance cost on it, eventually it would pop back into a beheaded hobo corpse. however ella at that time expressed that it was an ideal way of disposing of and hiding any dead bodies. that wouldn't make any sense if it some point a day/week/month from now it mysteriously turned back into a corpse.

My answer is that since hobo is not a s/h it doesn't need any maintenance. The power is spent on transformation and there is nothing left inside of the victim.

i don't think ella is feeding any kind of connection, tree person simple lacks the cognizance to try and push it out himself as pointed out by the mc's quotes in my previous post. And/or gillibrand is simple to weak to push out the energy of a level 5 like ella.

I already answered why consciousness doesn't matter.

We can safely ignore this part: "(Then again, I'm not sure a tree has that level of consciousness...)", when Mc tried to changed the size of Angelinas breasts in the end of her story they reverted instantly, I would remind you that Mc was lvl 2 at the time while Ange was, and still is, a lvl 1 with next to 0 power, that tells us that consciousness doesn't play part in the process, if I recall correctly Ange didn't even understand she did something, reversal of change just happens, it is a natural process and the amount inside doesn't matter.

 

[vogelbeest]

Nikki isn't a Superhuman, rules are vastly different.

That's true, but that's why i said Ella was able to do it, the level difference between Ella (5th) and Gillibrand (3rd) was why she was able to transmutate him. But regardless of that, how it works remains the same, transmutation needs a certain amount of energy/power to change the object/person and the energy/power is lost in the process... But it remains like that.

The shapeshifting needs power/energy to maintain the extra mass created, as soon you run out of power the extra mass (tentacles, wings, whatever) disappears and you return to your original form/ the form your subconscious thinks is the original form, even when passed out...

Shapeshifting and transforming/transmutation are different skills... They are very similar but don't exactly follow the same rules. With shapeshifting a lot extra mass is created, with transmutation the mass doesn't change that drastically, only the shape does.

 

[Fanvor]

And/or gillibrand is simple to weak to push out the energy of a level 5 like ella.

Already answered why power doesn't matter in this example.

So when the connection is broken and he is fighting the energy left inside of him, he should have won almost immediately, the foreign energy doesn't get any "reinforcement" while he can just produce more.