VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.996 Public] [WeirdWorld]

[SasugaRyzeSama]

There's that but that reasoning is more for the main characters, Bramon is only one man and each serum is expensive and time consuming, it needs to be tailor made for the individual, given his view of things, I think he is perfectly willing to hand them out like candy if he had the means and was allowed too, willing to sacrifice some level 1's for a level 2.

Ella said herself that very few Superhumans can reach level 3, let alone level 4 or 5, so most Superhumans simply aren't worth the investment. The MC and his allies are a cut above the rest, most Superhumans are the background characters that Alice was trashing for the Aldians, Michael and Tiffany even with her connections, wouldn't have been granted the serum unless they where the extreme stand outs they are.

It doesn't need to be tailor-made, it just decreases the chance of evolution going wrong and monsterification if it is. As he said, it's just 100~ something monsters juice, the problem with making it is with monster material more than anything, and that's becoming less and less of a problem lately in the story, so it could be made en masse. Bramon though brilliant is just a man, and whatever he can do can be taught and replicated by another people, he doesn't dance in Voodo mask around the syringes to make it work, he's not essential in making them.

The problem I think isn't with what Bramon is or isn't willing to do is only a part of the matter - H.E.R.O. has more than one person calling the shots, if others are against Bramon making a cystern of it and handing it left and right then he can't do it in any capacity openly, in contrast to the superhumans at their council he have no force argument, and I cannot see him just doing things "I want so I'll do it, fuck you" to spite Malik or Bernhardt without being stopped and put in place in more or less brutal way. And other captains might have reasons to not want it - Malik seems like a person that wouldn't risk lives of other people without minimizing it as much as possible (which takes time), Bernhardt have his reservations with serum at least seeming to be less effective in contrast to natural evolution, others might too. There probably was a vote for that already, and the effect are as seen.

 

[obibobi]

It doesn't need to be tailor-made, it just decreases the chance of evolution going wrong and monsterification if it is. As he said, it's just 100~ something monsters juice, the problem with making it is with monster material more than anything, and that's becoming less and less of a problem lately in the story, so it could be made en masse. Bramon though brilliant is just a man, and whatever he can do can be taught and replicated by another people, he doesn't dance in Voodo mask around the syringes to make it work, he's not essential in making them.

The problem I think isn't with what Bramon is or isn't willing to do is only a part of the matter - H.E.R.O. has more than one person calling the shots, if others are against Bramon making a cystern of it and handing it left and right then he can't do it in any capacity openly, in contrast to the superhumans at their council he have no force argument, and I cannot see him just doing things "I want so I'll do it, fuck you" to spite Malik or Bernhardt without being stopped and put in place in more or less brutal way. And other captains might have reasons to not want it - Malik seems like a person that wouldn't risk lives of other people without minimizing it as much as possible (which takes time), Bernhardt have his reservations with serum at least seeming to be less effective in contrast to natural evolution, others might too. There probably was a vote for that already, and the effect are as seen.

Your arguments is based on the idea of what it's ingredients are and going, those are easy to acquire, so it must be easy to make despite almost every point made within the game saying otherwise. If it was that easy Ella an established genius at this sort of thing wouldn't have needed to break in, Deryl wouldn't have needed so much time to make an inferior version, despite having direct access to the original, Bramon himself said they make time to make and his son, another established super genius said he can't do it. Yes in real life you can replicate someone else's work easily enough with the knowledge and expertise, but Bramon is a brilliant man in a superhero setting, that often means they are essential in making them.

HERO's morales have already shown they would allow it, they are willing to empower willing people, despite their being a small chance of success and a higher chance of death or worse and that many of the Superhumans for Hero are desperate for that serum and would take the risk.

Then you have Sin who only seem to have access to the inferior monsterisation version, this version is only recently perfected, it's clearly more than just shoving monster blood in a syringe.

 

[Ddlc]

There's that but that reasoning is more for the main characters, Bramon is only one man and each serum is expensive and time consuming, it needs to be tailor made for the individual, given his view of things, I think he is perfectly willing to hand them out like candy if he had the means and was allowed too, willing to sacrifice some level 1's for a level 2.

Ella said herself that very few Superhumans can reach level 3, let alone level 4 or 5, so most Superhumans simply aren't worth the investment. The MC and his allies are a cut above the rest, most Superhumans are the background characters that Alice was trashing for the Aldians, Michael and Tiffany even with her connections, wouldn't have been granted the serum unless they where the extreme stand outs they are.

Just after the mafia arc Nico talks with Xanthe about getting the evolution serum for her. Nico is not only a liutenant, but also has a very useful power to keep HERO working, and is considered one of the strongest. Even so she was trying to exchange favors with Xanthe for the serum, so i really don't know the logic behind why some get it or not.
Michael was stuck in lvl 1 for a long time, so i assume it was an investment in someone with potential, Tiffany is the daughter of Dexter, she will definitly have special treatment. Clark and Alexis had them back in their fight against Ella, it seems they were saving the serum for a difficult situation, or maybe unsure about the results. Zack got it to recover from his coma.
I think it's a decision from the high ups of HERO, case by case, and that not all of them take the idea lightly, but if Xanthe is willing to make more superhumans even if he has to sacrifice safety, i don't imagine him caring about giving the serum to more people.

 

[SasugaRyzeSama]

Your arguments is based on the idea of what it's ingredients are and going, those are easy to acquire, so it must be easy to make despite almost every point made within the game saying otherwise. If it was that easy Ella an established genius at this sort of thing wouldn't have needed to break in, Deryl wouldn't have needed so much time to make an inferior version, despite having direct access to the original, Bramon himself said they make time to make and his son, another established super genius said he can't do it. Yes in real life you can replicate someone else's work easily enough with the knowledge and expertise, but Bramon is a brilliant man in a superhero setting, that often means they are essential in making them.

HERO's morales have already shown they would allow it, they are willing to empower willing people, despite their being a small chance of success and a higher chance of death or worse and that many of the Superhumans for Hero are desperate for that serum and would take the risk.

Then you have Sin who only seem to have access to the inferior monsterisation version, this version is only recently perfected, it's clearly more than just shoving monster blood in a syringe.

Ella isn't a genius, she has a lot of knowledge about monsters, their powers and apostles that she either learned herself or was taught, if the serum or its equivalent was already used somewhere, she probably would knew. But to our current knowledge it was not, Bramon was probably the first being ever to develop it and apply to others. Not that it didn't happen before, but that it was made not on accident, and recognized as such. Consider MC - his third evo was triggered by the similar mechanism as his serum, lots of different monster material, but MC didn't even realize that until Bramon explained it to him. Without that it would probably be lost to time. Now, the serum is lots of monster parts in a syringe, and as evident by MC reacting to exactly that, if you're lucky it works without monsterification, but I think the intent put into it is the exact ratios and preparation, with over a hundred different monster species mixed finding the one needed for an individual is the problem and time-consuming part, not the making it at all.

And yeah, I'd agree his expertise and, well, his very own brain and mind was essential in developing the serum over the years, that when you already know how to do it, then it can be taught. And Tanos said he can't make it, true too. But, do he know the mechanism behind it? He very well might not, and that's what is stopping him from making one, certainly not etics or lack of monsters. Deryl might know how to do it, but the way of determining the ratios or some other mechanism wasn't given to him by Bramon. Why wouldn't he do it then? Well, why won't anyone else gamble someone's life, their close friends to boot on something that might quite possibly fail. All speculations on my part, yes, but not without premises.

 

[PerpetuallyAmiss]

WW said natural evo is not better. He would be even stronger if he used Bramon's serum.

More accurate I think, is that artificial isn't weaker and the sooner you reach level 5 the better in terms of accruing power. Might disqualify you from trials though depending on what they are.

 

[hsuaisbsjsh]

Just after the mafia arc Nico talks with Xanthe about getting the evolution serum for her. Nico is not only a liutenant, but also has a very useful power to keep HERO working, and is considered one of the strongest. Even so she was trying to exchange favors with Xanthe for the serum, so i really don't know the logic behind why some get it or not.
Michael was stuck in lvl 1 for a long time, so i assume it was an investment in someone with potential, Tiffany is the daughter of Dexter, she will definitly have special treatment. Clark and Alexis had them back in their fight against Ella, it seems they were saving the serum for a difficult situation, or maybe unsure about the results. Zack got it to recover from his coma.
I think it's a decision from the high ups of HERO, case by case, and that not all of them take the idea lightly, but if Xanthe is willing to make more superhumans even if he has to sacrifice safety, i don't imagine him caring about giving the serum to more people.

i mean nico is basically immune to anyone power if she grows to where she can teleport planets. like what will happen if she teleports the planet to that dimension the portal ring teleported mc to in the dead end where he tried to attack Charlie or if she teleported it into the middle of the strength eater ocean? heck and if she cant teleport planets she could maybe teleport the core if she grows strong enough

 

[Rutonat]

There's that but that reasoning is more for the main characters, Bramon is only one man and each serum is expensive and time consuming, it needs to be tailor made for the individual, given his view of things, I think he is perfectly willing to hand them out like candy if he had the means and was allowed too, willing to sacrifice some level 1's for a level 2.

Ella said herself that very few Superhumans can reach level 3, let alone level 4 or 5, so most Superhumans simply aren't worth the investment. The MC and his allies are a cut above the rest, most Superhumans are the background characters that Alice was trashing for the Aldians, Michael and Tiffany even with her connections, wouldn't have been granted the serum unless they where the extreme stand outs they are.

If the fact Bramon is alone was the issue, they'd have started producing them a lot faster with Deryl's help.
There's a lot more afoot than "Bramon is just one man and materials are rare", clearly.

More accurate I think, is that artificial isn't weaker and the sooner you reach level 5 the better in terms of accruing power. Might disqualify you from trials though depending on what they are.

Imma press X to doubt.
The natural method ensures the superhuman has had time to master their power correctly and cultivate it. Evolving too soon means not having the same mastery and experience. Plus, evolutions magnify the strength already present, so forcing an evolution too quickly would mean magnifying a lesser strength, thus leading to a lower total once at Level 5, in all logic.
Otherwise, if the end result was to be the same strength, some high ranks would have been made Level 5 years ago solely based on their specific power being highly useful.

 

[Grimnir098]

The game itself discusses at length of the fact that forcing evolutions isn't the best.
Not only does it carries the risk of failing and the Superhuman going crazy because "they weren't ready", but it also makes it occur before their power and body decide it's time, meaning it can force it to happen before their state matures enough, lowering their strength in the end.
It's literally a plot point that comes back multiple times, that it's not the best shortcut, and that weighing the pros and cons makes it tempting.

Otherwise, the old man would hand them out like candy so that H.E.R.O. can have plenty of strong Superhumans.

All evolutions carry the risk of failing, and it's not like you suddenly evolve just because you're ready for it. The serum can make you evolve before you're ready, but so can other things. Kenny evolved with literally a power of 1, and clearly he wasn't ready.
Also, it doesn't lower your power to evolve early, it's actually better in terms of power accumulation. It might cut off certain abilities you could have developed, or make those abilities weaker, but I don't think we actually have confirmation on that.

All in all, the serum isn't worse than a natural evolution. It's arguably better because mental stability is important for a safe evolution, meaning you can take it when you're calm and mentally prepared.

 

[Grimnir098]

Plus, evolutions magnify the strength already present, so forcing an evolution too quickly would mean magnifying a lesser strength, thus leading to a lower total once at Level 5, in all logic.
Otherwise, if the end result was to be the same strength, some high ranks would have been made Level 5 years ago solely based on their specific power being highly useful.

You also accumulate power more quickly at a higher level. I'm pretty sure it's specifically stated in-game that reaching a higher level is better.

The reason people aside from the Big Three weren't level 5 earlier is because Xanthe hadn't created the serum. Lexi and Clark were literally testing it, and only used it because they needed level 5 to defeat Ella.

 

[Rutonat]

All evolutions carry the risk of failing, and it's not like you suddenly evolve just because you're ready for it. The serum can make you evolve before you're ready, but so can other things. Kenny evolved with literally a power of 1, and clearly he wasn't ready.
Also, it doesn't lower your power to evolve early, it's actually better in terms of power accumulation. It might cut off certain abilities you could have developed, or make those abilities weaker, but I don't think we actually have confirmation on that.

All in all, the serum isn't worse than a natural evolution. It's arguably better because mental stability is important for a safe evolution, meaning you can take it when you're calm and mentally prepared.

Okay so.

1. I never said natural evolution carried no risk. You decided I did.

2. I didn't say evolving via serum reduced power levels. Again, you decided I did. I said evolving earlier than you should had less power to magnify. If you multiply 10 by 5, you'll get more than multiplying 7 by 5.

If you're gonna argue with people, try not to put words in their mouth.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

From my understanding, there are some people who just otherwise would not reach level 5. Whether it's due to their genetics, mental state, or alternative factors, some people would cap out at 1 or 2 or 3 or whatever. The serum is better than a natural evo in the sense that the risk of monsterfication is likely lower and it allows people who otherwise would not have progressed further to evolve. Like, the Level 3 guy who got turned into a tree likely is one of those people who can't evolve further, but would be able to do so if he were given the serum. That's my take on things.

 

[Dinoflaggelate]

Like, the Level 3 guy who got turned into a tree likely is one of those people who can't evolve further, but would be able to do so if he were given the serum.

I hope we get to do something with Duncan once we get back from the monster world. Enough focus has been placed on him that it doesn't feel right to leave him as a tree. The MC's Memory powers have improved and his strength has grown, maybe that would let him restore Duncan's mind and enable him to focus his energy to undo the transformation.

 

[Rutonat]

I hope we get to do something with Duncan once we get back from the monster world. Enough focus has been placed on him that it doesn't feel right to leave him as a tree. The MC's Memory powers have improved and his strength has grown, maybe that would let him restore Duncan's mind and enable him to focus his energy to undo the transformation.

I think two of the things that are very likely to happen is using the MC's newfound mastery over the Memory powers to help both Duncan and a certain small nerdy girl.

 

[Jonathan Y]

I hope we get to do something with Duncan once we get back from the monster world. Enough focus has been placed on him that it doesn't feel right to leave him as a tree. The MC's Memory powers have improved and his strength has grown, maybe that would let him restore Duncan's mind and enable him to focus his energy to undo the transformation.

Doubt he is ready for that yet, him improving his Memory abilities is definitely the way to go for that objective. But to restore Duncan the Mc needs to match either Duncan's self or Ella's corruption inside him, which is unlikely, because Duncan is/was still likely quite a lot stronger than the Mc currently is, given he was a abnormaly poweful level three who had been a superhuman for far longer than the Mc, and the foreign, corrupting power that resides in Duncan is from Ella, a former level 5.
I think the Mc will need to reach atleast level 4 to be able to restore Duncan, if not level 5.

 

[BenoTF25]

When do you people think Bernhardt become a superhuman?

Looking at the Captains, all of them look like either young adults or at least not that old, with Nyx(according to a guess from the MC) appearing to be 28, Malik on the other hand look like someone on his 30s at most, not really any wrinkle or anything so it means they stoped aging at a not so advanced age, Berni on the other hand look like someone on his 40s at least, if not early fifties, does that mean he stayed on early evos more than the others?, or did he just become a Superhuman far later on life?, the latter would be strange, a common human leading a bunch of SH who we know as a fact, respected him even back then, it would only make sense if Bernhardt was like Michael as a Human.

 

[DecadentDesires]

it would only make sense if Bernhardt was like Michael as a Human.

What an excellent thought and that would explain how he's so powerful. Honestly though, I thought Bernhardt's face looked like that due to the monster who turned him, not aging, but I could be wrong. That's some weird and severe wrinkling tho. Hard to judge with 2D art what's monster influenced or aging influenced. Could even be both. We may need WW to confirm.

 

[Krytax123]

When do you people think Bernhardt become a superhuman?

Looking at the Captains, all of them look like either young adults or at least not that old, with Nyx(according to a guess from the MC) appearing to be 28, Malik on the other hand look like someone on his 30s at most, not really any wrinkle or anything so it means they stoped aging at a not so advanced age, Berni on the other hand look like someone on his 40s at least, if not early fifties, does that mean he stayed on early evos more than the others?, or did he just become a Superhuman far later on life?, the latter would be strange, a common human leading a bunch of SH who we know as a fact, respected him even back then, it would only make sense if Bernhardt was like Michael as a Human.

Huh?

Bernhard could have simply been 40 when they all got turned into superhumans while the others were like 20.

It doesnt mean that Bernhard became a superhuman later, he was simply already older when they got turned. So it would still be a superhuman leading superhumans.

 

[DecadentDesires]

I think the Mc will need to reach atleast level 4 to be able to restore Duncan, if not level 5.

Certainly 5 or an Eye or other entity assisted level four. It's currently well out of his power and skill abilities. I doubt MC could even fix Mia or Laurie currently and those cases didn't involve a level 5ish(I mean he seemed to have more power than Ella and she was a neophyte level 5) victim body and a level 5 body distortion from a known superior shapeshifter.

 

[Dinoflaggelate]

When do you people think Bernhardt become a superhuman?

Looking at the Captains, all of them look like either young adults or at least not that old, with Nyx(according to a guess from the MC) appearing to be 28, Malik on the other hand look like someone on his 30s at most, not really any wrinkle or anything so it means they stoped aging at a not so advanced age, Berni on the other hand look like someone on his 40s at least, if not early fifties, does that mean he stayed on early evos more than the others?, or did he just become a Superhuman far later on life?, the latter would be strange, a common human leading a bunch of SH who we know as a fact, respected him even back then, it would only make sense if Bernhardt was like Michael as a Human.

Nyx says that Bernhardt has looked like that for as long as she's known him, so presumably he was just infected later in life than the other members of M-Division. We know they weren't all the same age when they got their powers, Nyx also says that she got her powers much younger than Malik did.

It might also just be that Bernhardt doesn't care about his appearance. We saw that with Dietz, that since he didn't mind looking old, becoming a superhuman didn't cause much aesthetic rejuvenation. Bernhardt's a grumpy old man on the inside, so maybe he wants his face to show it.

 

[DecadentDesires]

Huh?

Bernhard could have simply been 40 when they all got turned into superhumans while the others were like 20.

It doesnt mean that Bernhard became a superhuman later, he was simply already older when they got turned. So it would still be a superhuman leading superhumans.

Someone stated that the Big Three were all childhood friends at one point if memory serves right. I would hope Bernie wasn't hanging out with Little Henri and Malik that much.