- Aug 19, 2022
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It checks out. 1.0 has to be a big update and plot-heavy. A Hero/SIN or Hero/Public altercations can be the content we are looking for.
- Thread starter WeirdWorld
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- Jul 13, 2021
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I have some thoughts on SIN's leadership and this post gave me a reason to attempt putting it all together.
1) Very early in the game, Ella loses a precious stone. Some time later we see Ella approach Langdon, who gives the stone to her in exchange for aid. This aid is described as actual protection, but Langdon goes ahead and asks for some pills to lure and capture monsters.
2) Langdon gives a building to Ella to house the kids and an office with computers connected to his satellites. He mentions he has started turning people to superhumans, and he asks Ella if he and his son will survive the transformation.
3) Ella has the kids searching for some items. At some point, around the time Jake takes control of the Prime Minister's office, she has a discussion with Cole about it.
4) Ella finds whatever she is looking for in the mine, It seems to be a heart that increases her corruption by exposure. She then decides to use this place to allow Deryl to work in peace.
5) Cole announces SIN to the world and Langdon calls Ella to discuss how things are going. He remarks that Ella fucked up by delegating the work to Cole and that SIN is important to their plans, but Ella says that he has not need for SIN and is generally dismissive, acting like she wants to do the minimum possible.
6) During the battle we learn that SIN was Cole's assignment. The assumption is that Ella made him do it.
Commentary:
Up till now, it seems that Ella and SIN are two different entities in a business agreement. Naturally we don't even know at this point why Ella would bother with finding recruits for SIN. After all the initial agreement seemed to be about protection. Additionally the main assumption was that Ella gave the "assignment" to Cole.
6) Ella dies and sometime later we see Charlie with Jared. We learn that there are more stones to be found and Jared is leading the search but he has no clue what the stones are for. We also learn that Tanos works for SIN and that Ella discussed MC with Langdon.
7) We learn that the twins were Shen's thing, the twinsnatcher is Eisheth, an S Class monster, and they both were acting on Tanos' interests. Additionally Shen thinks that Ella's death affects SIN's survival and he wonders if there is any point to what they do. He is however proud that the twins are better than MC. Lastly he remarks that they can do nothing against Eisheth's bloodlust, at least till they reach level 5. Finally we learn that Eisheth is in love with Tanos.
Commentary:
At this point we can notice a shift. We know from Aglaecwif that Ella wants to do a ritual. However without her, it doesn't make sense that the kids will continue doing her bidding unless she has transfered her full knowledge to them. Yet the kids continue going through the motions. Charlie (who isn't even an "Ella's kid" to begin with) helps Jared with stones, Her, Cole and Zara continue recruiting for SIN, Shen does doc's bidding and keeps the Apostle spawn hunt alive, and the S Class monsters continue their alliance with SIN. All in all it seems that Ella's death hasn't changed anything.
We seemingly gone from a simple business agreement to fix Ella's fuckup to a full intergration between SIN, Ella's kids and the monsters. The question is why?
8) MC finds a picture connecting Ella to Tanos.
Commentary:
I'd love to say at this point that all have been made clear, but the truth is that it made this whole thing A LOT more complicated.
1) Tanos is a superhuman of creation, and quite likely the original creator of the pills if Deryl is to be believed. Why would Langdon need Ella's pills?
2) Tanos has an S Class monster doing his bidding. Their "relationship" doesn't seem very recent. If so, why would Langdon even bother with Ella
3) If Ella and Tanos are in cahoots, why would she make a business deal with Langdon instead of just asking Tanos to intrervene?
4) Ella is "chosen" according to Aglaecwif, which is probably why the S Class monsters follow her. Why do they remain? I can't accept that Charlie and Zara mindcontrol them. If that was the case, they would stop Eisheth from going after random twins, but Shen makes it sound impossible.
5) Does Tanos know about Ella's plans and how apostles factor into it? If Langdon knows about MC and Ella believes him to be exactly what she needs, why haven't SIN tried to trap/abduct him but Langdon tries to "persuade" him instead?
There are probably a lot more questions that need to be answered in order for this to make any sense at all. At the moment it seems that all power is in Tanos' fingertips. He is the one who does research on apostle spawns, he can get Eisheth to do his bidding, he has an important connection to Ella.
Thoughts?
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- Dec 3, 2018
- 1,744
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My guess is that Ella's pills may differ from Tanos's pills.
For whatever reason her's might be more effective or have a different effect...for whatever reason Tanos can't replicate it and thus Langy needs Ella.
Ella for whatever reason knows a lot of shit that I presume others dont know even an S class monster.
My best guess here is that Ella and him had a falling out...or maybe they were never close to begin with.
Honestly this one is totallllly up in the air on why they remain.
They must benefit heavily from remaining with SIN...they don't have to hunt anymore, the superhumans just provide em with whatever they need like with pinkie...they give her twins or 'lovers'
Basically like how humans provide for dogs for a service.
Dog gets meat in return for protecting livestock as an example.
There's a good possibility that they had a falling out so I doubt Tanos knows of any of Ella's plans and if he does they might be outdated.
In regards to MC my guess is that Ella didn't give langy EVERYTHING about MC like how important he is to her plan just that he is a target of interest. Another possibility is that Langy knows its currently extremely difficult to kidnap MC due to him being constantly in the HERO base and the fact the MC can disguise himself so getting away is very easy unless brought into Hex's dimension so its too much risk unless they can ensure they can lock em into one area for transportation to Hex dimension.
- Jan 27, 2021
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First, there seems to be an important power difference between regular S Rank monsters, and Eisheth, Aglaecwif, the Fairy, Valravn, the Rebis, and one currently unknown monster.
I believe this was shown in the scene where the MC connects with the memory wolf monster. It spoke of ascendant beasts that stood above others of its kind, and showed shadowy figures, but you can definitely make out who they are.
Second, we know they're using mind control on monsters because Briar talks about how Hex was "made friendly" or something, pretty clearly alluding to mind control.
It's likely they just can't mind control a monster of Eisheth and Aglaecwif's power, which is why they can't keep Eisheth from killing twins, and why (IIRC) Ella needed to make a deal with Aglaecwif (who may not even still be with SIN after the Battle of the Diamonds). Eisheth is still with SIN because she loves Tanos.
It would also explain why, as Briar stated, they couldn't make Valravn friendly. Those three are simply on another level, even to other S Rank monsters.
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Rerun the game, that Tanos guy reminds me of The God Emperor of Mankind from Warhammer 40k, and Eisheth...something related to slaanesh, very heretic( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Brair also claims to want to/is attempting to be friends with the monsters (iirc nobody else in SIN uses the words "friends") which would be muddled if they were actively being mind controlled (if they are controlled they should already be friends) but it could just be a case of Brair being a "good person" and trying to be nice/friendly even if they are controlled but he seems like the most """"normal"""" of the SIN bunch so it could really go either way.
Valravn might not have wanted to talk to them because he clearly wants to RP a solo "dark knight" build and it wouldn't really make sense that MC is able to beat him at level 2 (even if Cole weakened him Cole isn't a level 5 is he?) but Ella wasn't able to control him at 4 or 5? Or even go back at that level and force him?
- Nov 22, 2020
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- Jul 23, 2020
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Nah that is his cousin thanos this is tanos
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- Jun 23, 2017
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While it is true that they are "on another level", it is worth noting that Valravn in particular specifically has the power to negate intangible abilities' effects on himself. They can't mind-control him because he is simply outright immune to mind control as part of his power.
- Jun 23, 2017
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Valravn explicitly heals very slowly, even when he is free to hunt for hearts, having only reached 163 power by the time of his fight, so I don't expect him to recover too quickly while locked up in a power-negating cell under constant surveillance by HERO. If he gets out on his own, it'll likely have something to do with taking advantage of some other disruption, and/or the fact that the cell's power negation is probably from the same origin as Valravn's powers. (Negation is a power of the lineage of the 7th/Dark, which Valravn is a pure, first-generation member of.)
As for Cole's fight, they ambushed him after some major ritual. Cole was fighting him with Zara and Briar as support. And they were losing. They needed Ella to intervene, and then, despite the fact that she has similar powers to MC... Ella needed Briar's help to keep going.
I'll also note that despite your comment, MC's powers are a rather good matchup. Valravn is immune to intangible abilities, and effortlessly cuts through tanks. Another super of comparable level to MC would be dead, even if they could theoretically take out Valravn faster than MC could.
Valravn is not likely to be "significantly weaker" than the rest, unless they're unfathomably powerful.
sorry for not having a degree in this games lore or others characters power levels your
- Jun 23, 2017
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No need for the passive-aggression. I wasn't trying to attack you, merely clarify, and apologize if I came across as hostile.
And I did not misread. I just felt my addendum worthwhile, if tangential.
- Jun 22, 2017
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I think this is due to the nature of Valravn's power, his miasma makes him a hell to fight for most people, from what i understood this also makes him immune to both Zara and Charlie's powers, other S Ranks like Exenringue are not, my guess is that most monsters are either forced/tricked to take the mark and vows or maybe take them voluntarily, some monsters, the Elite ones monster dog mentioned are beyond that and have their own goals and only cooperate with SIN because they want to.
- Nov 8, 2020
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- Jul 13, 2021
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Yeah, I'm refering to the ones that the Hound showed MC. I don't really have a better name for them. Pure S Ranks? Ascended S Ranks? An interesting question thought is how stronger they could be compared to the other S Ranks like Hex and Goliath. These two seem to fair pretty well against Nico and Alexis respectively although Malik had an easy time against Goliath, even if he didn't stay to finish it off. I also found it curious that the Fairy is one of them, as I expected Hex to be more powerful, which makes it even more odd than Xanthe delegated it's capture to the Aldains instead of bringing the full might of HERO for this mission.
Briar claims that Aglaecwif and the rest of the monsters are his friends and mentions mind-control only when it comes to Hex and Valravn, noting that these two were defeated. As for Valravn, the probable reason they failed to do anything to him is because of his miasma which makes him immune to intangible abilities. I bet that in order to control the monsters, they have to defeat them first.
It makes a lot of sense that Ella was a level 4 when she fought Valravn and it's probable that the kids ambushed him. There is some intrigue with Cole messing up, and it's possible that Valravn used his heart to conduct the ritual and the kids somehow managed to steal it, leaving him weakened, but Cole wanted to kill it and fucked the plan up. This is conjecture but it's a plausible scenario for all the shit he's got and the accusations the others throw at him.
For all her skill, I think Ella, even as a level 5, isn't strong enough to be the cream of the crop, especially considering her feelings towards Alexis. If Alexis isn't capable enough to beat Goliath, Goliath isn't even one of the top monsters, Ella is so pissed at her, and Alexis claiming that shapeshifters counter her power, then this is a very strong possibility. Which would also mean that the Ascended S Ranks willingly work together with SIN and they have their reason for staying despite Ella dying. If that reason is supposed to be some ritual, then I have to assume that at least someone else knows about it, and if Aglaecwif claims that she doesn't know, my best guess is Tanos.
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It's been a while since this was mentioned, but after seeing the monster report for Valravn and learned that the Fairy is one of the all powerful monsters, I think it's fair to say that Alice has indeed inherited the pure Space trait and she's for all intends and purposes similar to an apostle spawn. Perhaps there may be some power related considerations, but if Valravn as a 1st gen is confirmed to be able to pass the pure trait, it stands to reason that the Fairy can do it too.
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That's the million dollar question. The public version changed some dialogue to indicate that Met may be a level 3. If Met is a level 3, has a bit of advantage thanks to his lightning powers, and only managed to tie against Evander, then it's probable that Evander is also a level 3 that somehow evolved super quickly.
If that's the case, then MC's performance is more than acceptable. If not, then Evander is probably a walking plot hole, because a level 2 going toe to toe with a level 3 is already a stretch, but doing it against 2 level 3s, one of them having an advantage, is ridiculous.
One of the great questions is how Ella knows so much. Xanthe has been researching monsters for decades and he looks like a schoolkid compared to Ella. I can accept that she may be exceptionally smart and having augmented her brain in ways that humans can't compete, but she's only been at it for what, 5 years? It's unlikely that level 1 or level 2 Ella was remotely interested in researching monsters. She looked like a scared girl trying to deal with the voices in her head.
It stands to reason that she has help, and at this point, the only one who is knowledgable enough about monsters is Tanos. We know from Markus that Tanos and Bramon had a falling out, and that Tanos worked on Markus' formula. He also looks middle aged, probably close to 45, so he could have a good 20 years of experience researching monsters, and he is a superhuman of creation, similar to Deryl, probably having a similar affinity.
I can only find 2 indications that Ella may had a falling out:
1) She looks miserable in the photo.
2) She used human teachers to research her forms.
However both could be explained away, the first by just considering her age and the circumstances of her infection, and the second by trying to use her school time efficiently (although I'm not really sure why she even attended school at this point, perhaps she was directed to, or she used it to hide from something?). The fact that this picture was found in the middle of a room which is hidden and personal to Ella, along with the fact that SIN progressed so fast after she joined, suggest that Ella has a good relationship with him, or at least a neutral one.
Edit: Although now that I think about it, perhaps these monster church people may have helped Ella with lore and knowledge. Althught the way they talk about the partnership makes me think that it's fairly recent. Perhaps that's the reason Langdon knows about MC? Ella wanted them in her side and told them that she has created an apostle spawn?
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