VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.999] [WeirdWorld]

[OnlineRando]

I'm talking about the name of the Apostle's trait, not the name of the Apostle.
Authority is the name of the First, Will is the name of Authority's trait.
Jake is the spawn of Authority, and therefore uses Will.

I'm saying that, firstly, they describe the powers of these traits poorly compared to the name of the apostle, and secondly, that I'm not sure where the notion that these are the traits' names came from in the first place.

I don't think Alice's ability, which has so far only tangentially touched on space and mostly has to do with gravity and dark energy, should be called the space trait. Space is clearly an application of it, but Ether as a concept fits the trait much better. The X in the "God's X" titles are seemingly there more for big wording than for accuracy.

 

[Snugglepuff]

Yes? How do you get me not wanting an explanation from me telling you to explain?

Because the end of the post I was replying to is contradicting your apparent need for an explanation. Either that, or you're responding to something else without any indication of what and who that line is for.

That is, explain how what I said relates to ionizing radiation. How does me saying monster power, especially Michael's, hinders MC's regen while inside his body, relates at all to ionizing radiation. Also, if you will, explain how that would be relevant, and how you got that from my words in the first place.

I'll make this as simple as possible, without having to explain the effects of ionising radiation to you...

As a superhuman, Michael is basically a walking nuclear reactor.

Firstly, forget your obsession with saying "monster power" as an alternative to energy and powers, especially when it comes to Michael's powers and his Apostle. The Power trait isn't about powers, it's about energy - "power" in terms of energy and energy fields.

Michael's power is basically the manipulation of energy fields/electromagnetic fields relating to the high end of the EM Spectrum, particularly around nuclear energy aka ionising radiation (we'll get to that), and is why he can mask his own energies better than other superhumans and why his physical durability generally is better than others of equal level.

He can absord energy-based attacks at level 1 and emit a literal "shotgun-like" radiation burst called (wait for it) Ionised Red... He literally fires a blast of nuclear energy with high intensity ionising radiation that results in whomever gets hit with it, being ripped apart at the cellular level.

Level 2, he gets an objectively better version of Ionised Red in the form of Radiation Beam - Higher output and in focused beam rather than a "conical blast".
Radiation knife is basically just him stabbing/slashing an opponent with concentrated ionising radiation. Funnily enough, Michael can potentially generate a "Radsaber" (radiation lightsaber) instead, but that one might be a little too on the nose.

His radiation attacks damage superhumans, slowing their abilities to heal (cellular/genetic damage), and even give them literal radiation poisoning (cellular/genetic damage)... That's all to do with ionising radiation.

So, for the third time now, you have agreed with me that the MC can be damaged and possibly killed by high exposure to radiation/radioactive particles.

I'm saying that, firstly, they describe the powers of these traits poorly compared to the name of the apostle, and secondly, that I'm not sure where the notion that these are the traits' names came from in the first place.

I don't think Alice's ability, which has so far only tangentially touched on space and mostly has to do with gravity and dark energy, should be called the space trait. Space is clearly an application of it, but Ether as a concept fits the trait much better.

To interject on this, as it relates to what I've written above, it's "space" as in space and spacetime, which is where gravity and (theoretical) dark energy come into play, and their effects on spacetime.

If you haven't played the Mass Effect games (Biotics, element zero, dark energy fields), go read up on the subjects of gravity and dark energy and spacetime. Otherwise this'll turn into an astrophysics lesson.

 

[Tahxeol]

I know pretty much everyone here hate Jack, but what would his next evolutions have added to his powerset (I don't believe his mental would allow him to evolve again)?

Outside of raw power, I don't see any more application of raw authority than brainwashing, giving orders, forcing commands on somone

 

[OnlineRando]

Firstly, forget your obsession with saying "monster power" as an alternative to energy and powers, especially when it comes to Michael's powers and his Apostle. The Power trait isn't about powers, it's about energy - "power" in terms of energy and energy fields.

Did I not say multiple times that his power affects energy? Which would include monster power? Which would affect powers? I'm pretty sure I said this over five times already.

Michael's power is basically the manipulation of energy fields/electromagnetic fields relating to the high end of the EM Spectrum, particularly around nuclear energy aka ionising radiation (we'll get to that), and is why he can mask his own energies better than other superhumans and why his physical durability generally is better than others of equal level.

No indication of anything after ionizing radiation. In fact, it was explained superhumans are generally more talented at hiding their monster power the more stoic/emotionally disconnected they are (and the opposite is true for sensing), and Michael is the definition of disconnected from other people. As for his "increased durability", that would mostly come down to absorbing the edge off of energy attacks when they hit him.

He can absord energy-based attacks at level 1 and emit a literal "shotgun-like" radiation burst called (wait for it) Ionised Red... He literally fires a blast of nuclear energy with high intensity ionising radiation that results in whomever gets hit with it, being ripped apart at the cellular level.

Level 2, he gets an objectively better version of Ionised Red in the form of Radiation Beam - Higher output and in focused beam rather than a "conical blast".
Radiation knife is basically just him stabbing/slashing an opponent with concentrated ionising radiation. Funnily enough, Michael can potentially generate a "Radsaber" (radiation lightsaber) instead, but that one might be a little too on the nose.

His radiation attacks damage superhumans, slowing their abilities to heal (cellular/genetic damage), and even give them literal radiation poisoning (cellular/genetic damage)... That's all to do with ionising radiation.

Cool? So he can produce ionizing radiation. Why does that matter to the current subject?

So, for the third time now, you have agreed with me that the MC can be damaged and possibly killed by high exposure to radiation/radioactive particles.

Where? WHERE???? WHERE DO I AGREE???? The ONLY thing I said is that MONSTER POWER, as in the energy superhumans use, resists MC's and Ella's shapeshifting. Michael's MONSTER POWER, meanwhile, is also specifically monster power of the trait that can mess with energy, INCLUDING MONSTER POWER, so his effects would FURTHER interrupt MC's shapeshifting BEYOND what other superhumans, like Cole, could do with effects that persist inside MC's body.

You can't ignore the existence of monster power as a major player in this discussion. Everything any superhuman does with their power is constructed, fueled, and imbued with monster power, which has been shown and stated an innumerable amounts of times to interfere with the effects of other monster power. Yes, MC COULD be damaged and possibly killed by high exposure to radiation.... If it's made and fueled by monster power. Other radiation, we have no reference on.

To interject on this, as it relates to what I've written above, it's "space" as in space and spacetime, which is where gravity and (theoretical) dark energy come into play, and their effects on spacetime.

Yes, but you'd think a trait named space would work from space back onto gravity and dark energy, rather than backwards. The trait of Ether seems to be closer to the philosophical element of ether/aether mixed with some current understanding of space, hence the name Ether in the first place, though I'm not saying that with certainty, since there's clearly a lot we're still gonna learn about Alice's powers.



The takeaway from all of this should be that you can't try and science pseudo science while conveniently ignoring the pseudo.

 

[Grimnir098]

I'm saying that, firstly, they describe the powers of these traits poorly compared to the name of the apostle, and secondly, that I'm not sure where the notion that these are the traits' names came from in the first place.

I don't think Alice's ability, which has so far only tangentially touched on space and mostly has to do with gravity and dark energy, should be called the space trait. Space is clearly an application of it, but Ether as a concept fits the trait much better. The X in the "God's X" titles are seemingly there more for big wording than for accuracy.

I literally gave you the evidence for that notion. Ether calls Alice "heir to Space" (among other things), and refers to himself as "God's space". Also, it just makes sense that the Apostle and the Apostle's trait would have different names, since they are separate, i.e. one can have the Apostle's trait without being the Apostle.

As for Alice's ability, I'm not sure how Ether fits it better. This is the definition I found, "the clear sky; the upper regions of air beyond the clouds." That has nothing to do with gravity and dark energy.
Are you working off a different definition?

 

[Snugglepuff]

Did I not say multiple times that his power affects energy? Which would include monster power? Which would affect powers? I'm pretty sure I said this over five times already.

Again, forget your precious "monster power".

No indication of anything after ionizing radiation.

Seriously???

You have got to be trolling.

monster power

Are you being paid for how many times you can say those words together?

As for his "increased durability", that would mostly come down to absorbing the edge off of energy attacks when they hit him.

Thank you for repeating what I said in a different way...

Cool? So he can produce ionizing radiation. Why does that matter to the current subject?

It matters because you still haven't even lifted a finger to look up the effects of ionising radiation... It's been explained, you've ignored those explanations (across several posts between multiple people) and you won't

If it's made and fueled by monster power.

Y'know what, forget all about it.
Forget the explanations from others, forget mine, forget the question in the first place, and (again) forget we ever interacted prior to Space/Ether naming.

Yes, but you'd think a trait named space would work from space back onto gravity and dark energy, rather than backwards.

No, it would be circular. Not forward or backward, but both.

Space is Ether, Ether is Space.

The trait of Ether seems to be closer to the philosophical element of ether/aether mixed with some current understanding of space, hence the name Ether in the first place, though I'm not saying that with certainty, since there's clearly a lot we're still gonna learn about Alice's powers.

I'm not saying it should be called Space instead of Ether.
Ether is the name, but it's also Space... Because Ether/Aether was just the "crude" or "primitive" word used for what we call space (as in outer space), so he's basically proposing an alternate word that means the same.


Ultimately it's all "Lovecraftian Infinity Gems".

I literally gave you the evidence for that notion. Ether calls Alice "heir to Space" (among other things), and refers to himself as "God's space". Also, it just makes sense that the Apostle and the Apostle's trait would have different names, since they are separate, i.e. one can have the Apostle's trait without being the Apostle.

As for Alice's ability, I'm not sure how Ether fits it better. This is the definition I found, "the clear sky; the upper regions of air beyond the clouds." That has nothing to do with gravity and dark energy.
Are you working off a different definition?

Ether is an old word for space.

 

[OnlineRando]

I literally gave you the evidence for that notion. Ether calls Alice "heir to Space" (among other things), and refers to himself as "God's space". Also, it just makes sense that the Apostle and the Apostle's trait would have different names, since they are separate, i.e. one can have the Apostle's trait without being the Apostle.

As for Alice's ability, I'm not sure how Ether fits it better. This is the definition I found, "the clear sky; the upper regions of air beyond the clouds." That has nothing to do with gravity and dark energy.
Are you working off a different definition?

Ether's had many definitions over the millennia. It was a hypothetical element in classical physics (though eventually proven to not exist) that supposedly filled space and allowed light waves to move in a vacuum. Certain philosophers believed ether to be a medium through which divine forces affected the world, and as you said, the ancient greeks believed ether/aether was what existed beyond the clouds, being space. They thought the sun, moon, and stars were made of ether. Certain theories also linked ether to gravity. There's definitely a lot of stuff I missed, but the gist is that conceptually, its supposed to be an invisible substance/medium through which certain forces were created/channeled.

 

[OnlineRando]

Again, forget your precious "monster power".

I am not going to ignore the single most important thing to this subject because it's convenient for you.

Seriously???

You have got to be trolling.

Michael being good at hiding his energy signal was explained in-game by him being emotionally reserved.

Are you being paid for how many times you can say those words together?

Again, the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT thing when talking about abilities in superhuman, and you're trying to sweep it under the rug.

Thank you for repeating what I said in a different way...

When did you say that? You said his physical durability was better than that of a superhuman of an equal level, but this isn't durability. But you're welcome, I guess.

It matters because you still haven't even lifted a finger to look up the effects of ionising radiation... It's been explained, you've ignored those explanations (across several posts between multiple people) and you won't

I thought we already came to the conclusion MC could heal from radiation, but apparently you're stuck on that, so let me reiterate: MC has displayed things far beyond cellular, and even molecular shapeshifting. He shapeshifted into entirely different species, for god's sake, and IIRC WW said he could even transform into fungi. Clearly, genetic, cellular, molecular, and even potentially atomic scale damage are not enough to disallow him from transforming, at least when he's using his memory templates.

Also, who's multiple people? This has been just you and me.

How about you start considering how the thing that causes the powers to exist in the first place interacts with what we're talking about?

 

[Snugglepuff]

Also, who's multiple people? This has been just you and me.

Your ignorance of other people's input is all the reason I need to say, no... No we're not doing this any more.

 

[TheShelly]

Just to clear a few things up for the sake of hopefully putting all of this arguing behind us and to avoid a mod coming to clap us for the Nth time:

MONSTER POWER aka MP as Ella explains it, is the supernatural energy that powers every single superhuman and monster's abilities. This energy is channeled through their bodies, filtered through their unique DNA into becoming a refined version itself unique to that individual being and their abilities. The capability to hold and channel Raw MP is part of the core trait that unites every monster and superhuman despite their lineages.

The Power Stat reflects an individual's ability to filter greater amounts of Raw MP and the total capacity of their Refined MP.

A superhuman's Refined MP will protect its wielder both subconsciously and not. This is why direct power clashes were problematic for Jake. His ability affects the internals of another Superhuman, so trying to manipulate an aware subject would result in him having to exert more energy in his commands as his target's own Refined MP would try to purge the foreign MP and its effects. It has been demonstrated multiple times that foreign MP entering a superhumans body hinders their abilities regardless of the specifics of the method of transfer itself.

The MC has suffered hampered regeneration when faced with persistent damage-over-time effects. Its why fire was such a weakness before his 3rd Evo. Deryl did not need to create MP-infused fire or acid to stunlock him. Regular radiation would thus most likely also cause him difficulties.

When sparring with Michael he notes that the injuries he gets are giving him trouble, which is impressive, given that Michael was his 1st Evo and MC was a brand-new 3rd Evo. The reasoning for this is that Michael's radiation is causing damage on multiple fronts at the same time - It causes thermal burns, cell and DNA damage and also infuses his body with foreign MP. Also to point out, Michael's powers can most closely be defined as Dynakinesis - the ability to absorb, hold and convert energy from one form to another.

Mayhaps we all could do with another playthrough to refresh the facts?

 

[OnlineRando]

Just to clear a few things up for the sake of hopefully putting all of this arguing behind us and to avoid a mod coming to clap us for the Nth time:

MONSTER POWER aka MP as Ella explains it, is the supernatural energy that powers every single superhuman and monster's abilities. This energy is channeled through their bodies, filtered through their unique DNA into becoming a refined version itself unique to that individual being and their abilities. The capability to hold and channel Raw MP is part of the core trait that unites every monster and superhuman despite their lineages.

The Power Stat reflects an individual's ability to filter greater amounts of Raw MP and the total capacity of their Refined MP.

A superhuman's Refined MP will protect its wielder both subconsciously and not. This is why direct power clashes were problematic for Jake. His ability affects the internals of another Superhuman, so trying to manipulate an aware subject would result in him having to exert more energy in his commands as his target's own Refined MP would try to purge the foreign MP and its effects. It has been demonstrated multiple times that foreign MP entering a superhumans body hinders their abilities regardless of the specifics of the method of transfer itself.

The MC has suffered hampered regeneration when faced with persistent damage-over-time effects. Its why fire was such a weakness before his 3rd Evo. Deryl did not need to create MP-infused fire or acid to stunlock him. Regular radiation would thus most likely also cause him difficulties.

When sparring with Michael he notes that the injuries he gets are giving him trouble, which is impressive, given that Michael was his 1st Evo and MC was a brand-new 3rd Evo. The reasoning for this is that Michael's radiation is causing damage on multiple fronts at the same time - It causes thermal burns, cell and DNA damage and also infuses his body with foreign MP. Also to point out, Michael's powers can most closely be defined as Dynakinesis - the ability to absorb, hold and convert energy from one form to another.

Mayhaps we all could do with another playthrough to refresh the facts?

Incredible explanation. The only thing I even slightly disagree with is the comparison of radiation and fire/acid, because the latter two are outside effects while the former would apply an effect on MC's cells and thus be subject to the full effects of his shapeshifting, but other than that I couldn't explain it better myself.

 

[Snugglepuff]

Incredible explanation. The only thing I even slightly disagree with is the comparison of radiation and fire/acid, because the latter two are outside effects while the former would apply an effect on MC's cells and thus be subject to the full effects of his shapeshifting

Think in terms of the difference between cooking with a microwave oven and a normal gas or even electric oven, so convection versus radiation as a means of energy transfer.
One heats from the inside-out, the other from the outside-in.

Acid is similar to fire in this instance due to damage being external, going inward.

 

[OnlineRando]

Think in terms of the difference between cooking with a microwave oven and a normal gas or even electric oven, so convection versus radiation as a means of energy transfer.
One heats from the inside-out, the other from the outside-in.

Acid is similar to fire in this instance due to damage being external, going inward.

The difference between radiation and fire/acid is that the fire and acid aren't imbued with MC's monster power, and never will be, unless MC manages to imbue them with it, or, depending on how monster power spreads across the body, they might get imbued passively eventually. The radiation, meanwhile, damages things that are already filled to the brim with his monster power.

MC's also been shown to be worse at handling matter the less solid it is, presumably because it's more chaotic, so imbuing acid, which is generally a liquid, and fire, a plasma, with his monster power... should be pretty difficult for his already meagre outside transformation skills.

 

[Snugglepuff]

The difference between radiation and fire/acid is that the fire and acid aren't imbued with MC's monster power

No, no... Forget your precious monster power.
Forget about that energy, it has nothing to do with what I wrote. Nothing whatsoever, in any way shape or form, absolutely, completely, by no stretch of the imagination relating to what I wrote.

Here's the super-short version
Radiation - Internal cell damage.
Fire and acid - External cell damage.

That's it, that's all, no supernatural energy type whatsoever, just a super-simplified explanation of how three different things damage cells.

 

[OnlineRando]

No, no... Forget your precious monster power.
Forget about that energy, it has nothing to do with what I wrote. Nothing whatsoever, in any way shape or form, absolutely, completely, by no stretch of the imagination relating to what I wrote.

Here's the super-short version
Radiation - Internal cell damage.
Fire and acid - External cell damage.

That's it, that's all, no supernatural energy type whatsoever, just a super-simplified explanation of how three different things damage cells.

Fire and acid are a problem because healing the damage doesn't get rid of the source, which is something that couldn't be said for radiation, since the damage is the source of the problem. Unless the radiation is consistently applied, of course.

 

[Snugglepuff]

Fire and acid are a problem because healing the damage doesn't get rid of the source, which is something that couldn't be said for radiation, since the damage is the source of the problem. Unless the radiation is consistently applied, of course.

Radiation damage is dependant on exposure, either through time or magnitude. High enough dosage (can be stupidly small in some circumstances), and it wouldn't matter if it's one second or one minute. Once it's inside, the damage is done.

The damage comes from inside (mircowave oven) versus fire/acid damaging the outside first (gas/electric oven)

Yes, I know acid isn't the same thing as fire and is a different series of mechanisms, but for the purposes of internal/external, it's close enough.

 

[OnlineRando]

Radiation damage is dependant on exposure, either through time or magnitude. High enough dosage (can be stupidly small in some circumstances), and it wouldn't matter if it's one second or one minute. Once it's inside, the damage is done.

The damage comes from inside (mircowave oven) versus fire/acid damaging the outside first (gas/electric oven)

Yes, I know acid isn't the same thing as fire and is a different series of mechanisms, but for the purposes of internal/external, it's close enough.

Not only is radiation poisoning incredibly slow-acting, to the point the fastest an ordinary, real life human has died from purely that took 9 days if my memory serves, MC has already shown capable of recovering from Michael's radiation, and that's radiation that can specifically counter his regen.

This debate has been stretched out for far too long and has gotten way beyond being repetitive and boring, so I'm done with this.

 

[Snugglepuff]

Not only is radiation poisoning incredibly slow-acting, to the point the fastest an ordinary, real life human has died from purely that took 9 days if my memory serves

... Aside from those who died before medical assistance of any sort could be given (30Gy and above), because the lethality is based upon magnitude of exposure.

Also, at least two people have died within hours of exposure.

This debate has been stretched out for far too long and has gotten way beyond being repetitive and boring, so I'm done with this.

Then don't debate with yourself. Our debate was already stopped because you like going in circles.

 

[Dinoflaggelate]

I think there must be at least some of Michael's supernatural energy mixed in with his attacks, because his radiation is the wrong color. Ionizing radiation is itself invisible, but as it passes through the air and ionizes it, it produces a blue glow. Instead, Michael's beams are red. And I don't think it's just artistic license on Weirdworld's part, because the same effect happens with Michael absorbing electricity. Lightning attacks go into him blue, come out red. Some portion of Michael's red supernatural energy is carried along with his attacks, dying it his color.

 

[OnlineRando]

... Aside from those who died before medical assistance of any sort could be given (30Gy and above), because the lethality is based upon magnitude of exposure.

Also, at least two people have died within hours of exposure.

You might be right, but I don't care. Still too much time, and I'm sick of this.

Then don't debate with yourself. Our debate was already stopped because you like going in circles.

Look who's talking.