VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.999] [WeirdWorld]

[KKStrider]

I always interpreted it as Jake ordering the erasure of too much memory. His passive powers seem to operate by burying a person's thoughts until they're just subconscious or rewriting the memory, but his active command seem to outright force someone's brain to delete it. Jess didn't react that way when ordered to forget something but it would likely only be getting rid of minutes for her. But Mia would have every stray moment where she thought about Ella's existence and Jake's powers purged from conscious and subconscious memory across days.

Considering the brain technically permanently reshapes itself every time it stores something in memory, with long term memory requiring bigger and more structurally significant changes, I can only imagine the kind of strain having a big chunk of your synaptic connections forced to break up and warp beyond all capacity by a supernatural foreign power would bring onto someone. It's not a slight twist or shuffle like misremembering something, small to medium subtle corruptions of old memories happen without you noticing everyday. Maybe you were fatter back then, maybe that shirt's the wrong shade of green, and in your head a shout or a whisper is equivalently loud. But to outright purge everything, wipe the slate clean and force the pieces to never be allowed to be whole again? I'd imagine it'd just be too much happening too fast.

 

[ItzSyther]

I don't agree with this, cause it would seem to imply that the MC should also cause pain by mentally manipulating her, but that's not what happens.


I still think her being the only one to suffer pain due to Jake's commands is very strange, and I don't think Jake just being mid evolution is a good enough justification for it.

Actually being mid evolution is a perfect justification for it.

Superhumans during any part of their jump to the next stage are heightened in their power. We see this with MC plenty of times.

So of course someone like Jake being mid evolution would deal some untold amount of damage to a target be it intentional or not.

The game backs me up on this. There is literally no other reason why Mia should be in pain if Jake is there, he's the variable to her pain. You can't just ignore that because its 'strange' lol.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

Actually being mid evolution is a perfect justification for it.

Superhumans during any part of their jump to the next stage are heightened in their power. We see this with MC plenty of times.

So of course someone like Jake being mid evolution would deal some untold amount of damage to a target be it intentional or not.

The game backs me up on this. There is literally no other reason why Mia should be in pain if Jake is there, he's the variable to her pain. You can't just ignore that lol.

I mean, if the issue was Jake being mid-evolution, why did it hurt the second time? It just remembers it? That's what I find flimsy about it. Yeah, there's clearly something about Jake's powers causing Mia pain, but I don't think it's necessarily related to his evolution, at least not the second time.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

I always interpreted it as Jake ordering the erasure of too much memory. His passive powers seem to operate by burying a person's thoughts until they're just subconscious or rewriting the memory, but his active command seem to outright force someone's brain to delete it. Jess didn't react that way when ordered to forget something but it would likely only be getting rid of minutes for her. But Mia would have every stray moment where she thought about Ella's existence and Jake's powers purged from conscious and subconscious memory across days.

Considering the brain technically permanently reshapes itself every time it stores something in memory, with long term memory requiring bigger and more structurally significant changes, I can only imagine the kind of strain having a big chunk of your synaptic connections forced to break up and warp beyond all capacity by a supernatural foreign power would bring onto someone. It's not a slight twist or shuffle like misremembering something, small to medium subtle corruptions of old memories happen without you noticing everyday. Maybe you were fatter back then, maybe that shirt's the wrong shade of green, and in your head a shout or a whisper is equivalently loud. But to outright purge everything, wipe the slate clean and force the pieces to never be allowed to be whole again? I'd imagine it'd just be too much happening too fast.

This is probably the best reasoning I've heard so far, it makes sense to me.

 

[ItzSyther]

I mean, if the issue was Jake being mid-evolution, why did it hurt the second time? It just remembers it? That's what I find flimsy about it. Yeah, there's clearly something about Jake's powers causing Mia pain, but I don't think it's necessarily related to his evolution, at least not the second time.

The most important thing you are overlooking is a key phrase Jake says

Jake "I order you Mia. Remember everything."

He said everything this includes the pain she underwent.

She remembered every little thing that happened even up to the pain and had a super bad reaction to it.

That basically explains it all.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

The most important thing you are overlooking is a key phrase Jake says

Jake "I order you Mia. Remember everything."

He said everything this includes the pain she underwent.

She remembered every little thing that happened even up to the pain and had a super bad reaction to it.

That basically explains it all.

I suppose.

 

[ItzSyther]

I suppose.

Yup. Shit is kinda funny tho. Jake went in there confident he could restore her and fucked it up anyway having to rely on MC.

He should of been more specific imo. It's like a genie's trickery with you having to be very specific in what you ask for.

 

[lg545]

3. And during said Battle of Diamonds, you'll see her fold when it was something that her power couldn't affect. Her helping Alice doesn't mean she's mentally tough all of a sudden.

Emm... if she was not - she could just run away and leave Alice behind. She stay and fought - that require courage and mental toughness

1. Yes, a couple of months. Laurie says so to the MC herself. Not sure what your point is here. This further proves my point anyway because Jake, MC, Alice and the others outpaced her and they had their powers for less time.

How it can prove anything? I mean - Danica get her lvl 2 couple days after she become Super Human. Is she better then MC who train his ass hard for month+ and get nothing (it took close to death battle against Klaus to evolve)?

No shit, but MC doesn't need that kind of support. Michael alone can do what Laurie does with his radiation. Only difference is, he can actually fight.

Well, what you say is stupid as hell. For example - could Michael stop regenerative abilities (make regenerate body way harder). Nope. Laurie can. And about her fighting skills - Michael could teach her, like he did with every one else

She doesn't have SIN nor HERO's backing...she's just human. She won't get no revenge on MC if he killed Jake and even if she gained powers she's effectively...useless. Yeah pretty much.

Was not she a science prodigy on Deryl lvl? I mean - she could be recruited as scientist in SIN

 

[ItzSyther]

Was not she a science prodigy on Deryl lvl? I mean - she could be recruited as scientist in SIN

Yes, she 'could' be recruited by SIN but at that point its just grasping at straws to give Mia a 'chance' at even having a slight possibility against MC.

A good chunk of people weren't happy with the twins being (mostly blue boi) able to fight MC despite being a superhuman for so little time so I can imagine the fuckery that Mia being bum rushed to superpowers and somehow being able to fight MC would cause.

But at any rate she'd just be a scientist at SIN unless they think she's capable of handling powers and da like so her going there isn't going to change much.

Edit: Also can't forget the fact if Jake is allowed to live that'd cause a lot of fuckery for Weird to work on (branching) since why would Mia join SIN if Jake is still alive? She's mad at him not MC.

 

[Gtdead]

I always interpreted it as Jake ordering the erasure of too much memory. His passive powers seem to operate by burying a person's thoughts until they're just subconscious or rewriting the memory, but his active command seem to outright force someone's brain to delete it. Jess didn't react that way when ordered to forget something but it would likely only be getting rid of minutes for her. But Mia would have every stray moment where she thought about Ella's existence and Jake's powers purged from conscious and subconscious memory across days.

Considering the brain technically permanently reshapes itself every time it stores something in memory, with long term memory requiring bigger and more structurally significant changes, I can only imagine the kind of strain having a big chunk of your synaptic connections forced to break up and warp beyond all capacity by a supernatural foreign power would bring onto someone. It's not a slight twist or shuffle like misremembering something, small to medium subtle corruptions of old memories happen without you noticing everyday. Maybe you were fatter back then, maybe that shirt's the wrong shade of green, and in your head a shout or a whisper is equivalently loud. But to outright purge everything, wipe the slate clean and force the pieces to never be allowed to be whole again? I'd imagine it'd just be too much happening too fast.

My idea about what happened is something like this:

1) When someone actively resists Jake's commands, Jake expends power to enforce it. This is shown in the prison segment where he does a power contest with MC.

2) Jake has an easier time applying his commands when the target is unsuspecting. This is why Ella tells him to be very careful with his commands during the HERO infiltration and how he even managed to influence Alexis.

3) Jake's perceptions and emotions affect the effectiveness of his powers. At first he had a lot of trouble with Jared, till Ella beat the shit out of him. It's possible that the only reason he managed to control Jared was that he was more afraid of what Ella would do to him if he failed.

4) Mia, beyond all reason, manages to resist his command for a time. She is a human and not even a savvy/seasoned one. So it stands to reason that Jake's feelings messed with his power and Mia resisting made it even harder.

This makes me think that Jake had to expend way more power than he normally used to break through his own feelings that held him back, and it's what caused his evolution. He was in a power contest with Mia, a human, and he evolved while the "link" between them was still active. The power of the command jumped manyfold the moment his power increased and broke her mind.

There's also indication that Jake monsterfied partially. We have seen superhumans with weird characteristics like Klaus, but his were even more pronounced, with monsterteeth and the peculiar eyes. Additionally, his evolution seemed particularly painful, remniscient of Deryl's monsterfication.

The game suggests that monsterfication makes the individual significantly stronger, so even a partial one could raise his powers very sharply, similar to how MC got a 15 power boost in deadend1.

 

[DrakoGhoul]

Emm... if she was not - she could just run away and leave Alice behind. She stay and fought - that require courage and mental toughness

It doesn't. If Alice wasn't with her, she likely wouldn't have fought. She was only able to hold the Chimera off because she knew Alice had her back. Even then, she got fucked hard.

How it can prove anything? I mean - Danica get her lvl 2 couple days after she become Super Human. Is she better then MC who train his ass hard for month+ and get nothing (it took close to death battle against Klaus to evolve)?

You literally not getting the point. Laurie progression is slow. That's the point. Mentioning Danica wasn't the point. The fact that you believe Laurie was Level 2 for longer than I do and that the MC and everyone else outpaced her proves that she's not that good.

Well, what you say is stupid as hell. For example - could Michael stop regenerative abilities (make regenerate body way harder). Nope. Laurie can. And about her fighting skills - Michael could teach her, like he did with every one else

Oh, so it's stupid as hell but here you are saying Michael can train her, which proves that she's actually not the good at fighting. Radiation does prevent regeneration as he did it to Deryl's Chimera and he doesn't only have that in his kit.

Look, we will see in the future but don't be disappointed when she's not in every scene or plays any important role in the game going forward. Just because you believe she should have an important role in the future doesn't make it true. You're more than free to argue for it but your chances are slim to none.

 

[Gtdead]

Emm... if she was not - she could just run away and leave Alice behind. She stay and fought - that require courage and mental toughness

I agree with you that at this point Laurie started coming into her own and even managed to manifest an ability that helped the situation, but the sad reality is that despite all, she got completely demolished by a C Class monster. Even if she had some potential to be better than that, she wasted it for years due to her own mindset.

Hopefully WW will add some scenes in the future where she has accepted her role and at least tried to improve and become a top of the line level 2. The nature of her power can easily carry her to that point. I don't expect much more than that though and she certainly isn't important enough to get the serum.

For all intents and purposes, I view Laurie as a "middle of the road" superhuman, perhaps even above average thanks to her specific abilities, just not good enough to really be something special. It's not like the other HERO agents on her level are better. Most of them could barely deal with armed humans.

 

[lg545]

Edit: Also can't forget the fact if Jake is allowed to live that'd cause a lot of fuckery for Weird to work on (branching) since why would Mia join SIN if Jake is still alive? She's mad at him not MC.

For example - she could invent some great shit that would bite MC into ass (if he kill Jake)
Or she become a scientist for HERO, invent some great shit and it would help MC in fight (if we spare Jake life)

It doesn't. If Alice wasn't with her, she likely wouldn't have fought. She was only able to hold the Chimera off because she knew Alice had her back. Even then, she got fucked hard.

There was a moment when Laurie fought 1x1

You literally not getting the point. Laurie progression is slow. That's the point. Mentioning Danica wasn't the point. The fact that you believe Laurie was Level 2 for longer than I do and that the MC and everyone else outpaced her proves that she's not that good.

And i proove point that growth is random. Danica gets it in three days while doing nothing, when MC put hardcore training, rip his ass...and it took 48 days for him to evolve. By this logic Laurie who stay long enough on her lvl 2 could start her evolution during first serious fight

Oh, so it's stupid as hell but here you are saying Michael can train her, which proves that she's actually not the good at fighting. Radiation does prevent regeneration as he did it to Deryl's Chimera and he doesn't only have that in his ki

1. Deryl also bad in fighting...and he suck a lot if did not prepare way before battle actually get started. So - fuck Deryl?
2.By regeneration i mean MC lvl of regeneration

Hopefully WW will add some scenes in the future where she has accepted her role and at least tried to improve and become a top of the line level 2. The nature of her power can easily carry her to that point. I don't expect much more than that though and she certainly isn't important enough to get the serum.

I see this as a character arc. Her zero point is her doubts about her power and doubts in herself. They grew after she lost MC and Alice (and Jake if he stay alive), but there we have turning point - her life or death battle and Alice as example. She decide to fight and put everything she could
.
Then near death experience could serve as a great motivation to become better, way stronger then she stay now

 

[DrakoGhoul]

For example - she could invent some great shit that would bite MC into ass (if he kill Jake)
Or she become a scientist for HERO, invent some great shit and it would help MC in fight (if we spare Jake life)

There was a moment when Laurie fought 1x1

And i proove point that growth is random. Danica gets it in three days while doing nothing, when MC put hardcore training, rip his ass...and it took 48 days for him to evolve. By this logic Laurie who stay long enough on her lvl 2 could start her evolution during first serious fight

1. Deryl also bad in fighting...and he suck a lot if did not prepare way before battle actually get started. So - fuck Deryl?
2.By regeneration i mean MC lvl of regeneration

I see this as a character arc. Her zero point is her doubts about her power and doubts in herself. They grew after she lost MC and Alice (and Jake if he stay alive), but there we have turning point - her life or death battle and Alice as example. She decide to fight and put everything she could
.
Then near death experience could serve as a great motivation to become better, way stronger then she stay now

None of that changes what I said. You can feel strongly about it all you want but Laurie isn't an important character. You're more than free to complain about it by yourself but I'm done indulging you in the discussion. You tried your best but nothing you've said throughout this discussion has come even remotely close to changing my mind. Even if that's not your intention or you don't care, it doesn't matter.

 

[The Good Doctor]

I got blueballed with that ending, game still peak though

 

[Gtdead]

And i proove point that growth is random. Danica gets it in three days while doing nothing, when MC put hardcore training, rip his ass...and it took 48 days for him to evolve. By this logic Laurie who stay long enough on her lvl 2 could start her evolution during first serious fight

I think you are really misunderstanding the argument. It's not about if Laurie can return to active duty, evolve, or even manage to reach level 5.

The game deals with literal gods, way beyond what superhumans can deal with, and the main cast are all spawns of some of the strongest beings in existence, that will certainly play a role at that level.

Jake for example is an important character because he is an apostlespawn and was destined to inherit a power that literally shapes the universe. Characters like Laurie, Danica, even the HERO captains, will probably be small fish by the time the endgame kicks in, so their development while having the capacity to create good content for the viewers, in the grand scheme of things is irrelevant. At least some of them are powerful enough to drive the plot and possibly become important allies or important roadblocks.

Laurie is just a level 2 and certainly not on the level of the more powerful characters, mentally or ability-wise. She could play a support role that allows MC to develop a bit faster, but there are so many characters who can do the same and are part of the main cast, that she really doesn't even worth mentioning in comparison.

She performed fine as a vehicle for Deryl's and Alice's presentation and development. Liking Laurie and caring about future scenes is fine, and we can have a good discussion on how we would like her to develop, but the chances of her getting a important/leading role, even without her possible death, weren't that great to begin with.

 

[RevyTwoHands87]

I agree with you that at this point Laurie started coming into her own and even managed to manifest an ability that helped the situation, but the sad reality is that despite all, she got completely demolished by a C Class monster. Even if she had some potential to be better than that, she wasted it for years due to her own mindset.

Hopefully WW will add some scenes in the future where she has accepted her role and at least tried to improve and become a top of the line level 2. The nature of her power can easily carry her to that point. I don't expect much more than that though and she certainly isn't important enough to get the serum.

For all intents and purposes, I view Laurie as a "middle of the road" superhuman, perhaps even above average thanks to her specific abilities, just not good enough to really be something special. It's not like the other HERO agents on her level are better. Most of them could barely deal with armed humans.

I agree that Laurie is a middle-of-the-road superhuman at most the highest level she will achieve is her 3rd EVO and not easily and probably not any time soon she probably would not be able to handle the higher levels anyway.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

How much do we know about the Apostles? From what I remember from my playthrough, the First is Authority, the Second is Power, the Third is Memory, and Fourth is Body (might've mixed up 3 and 4). I assume that "Grandfather" character that Alice saw after her evolution is one of them, but not sure which. The Eleventh and Twelfth are twins (though there is a trend of pairing sequential apostles together like how Authority and Power pair to make Order, and how the MC refers to 3rd and 4th as Mother and Father) but I don't know what they represent. I haven't gone into much of the deadends. Also do we still not really know what the thing that killed Mother was in the dead end where we fight Ella? If I recall correctly, it will appear in one of the MC's dreams, I assume if corruption is high enough but I'm not certain about that.

 

[DrakoGhoul]

I think you are really misunderstanding the argument. It's not about if Laurie can return to active duty, evolve, or even manage to reach level 5.

The game deals with literal gods, way beyond what superhumans can deal with, and the main cast are all spawns of some of the strongest beings in existence, that will certainly play a role at that level.

Jake for example is an important character because he is an apostlespawn and was destined to inherit a power that literally shapes the universe. Characters like Laurie, Danica, even the HERO captains, will probably be small fish by the time the endgame kicks in, so their development while having the capacity to create good content for the viewers, in the grand scheme of things is irrelevant. At least some of them are powerful enough to drive the plot and possibly become important allies or important roadblocks.

Laurie is just a level 2 and certainly not on the level of the more powerful characters, mentally or ability-wise. She could play a support role that allows MC to develop a bit faster, but there are so many characters who can do the same and are part of the main cast, that she really doesn't even worth mentioning in comparison.

She performed fine as a vehicle for Deryl's and Alice's presentation and development. Liking Laurie and caring about future scenes is fine, and we can have a good discussion on how we would like her to develop, but the chances of her getting a important/leading role, even without her possible death, weren't that great to begin with.

Exactly. Deryl, Michael, Tiffany and Alice are all connected to an apostle. They're going to play major roles. Jake is the exception because he can die but he's 1st Spawn. Laurie has no connection at all. She's not link to any of the major plot points that'll develop from here on out and she's not strong enough for the stuff we'll be facing.

As happy as I am that Danica is alive, I'm not delusional enough to think she's going to be apart of the main cast. I'm thankful that WW gave me my waifu, but I'm under no illusion that she'll be that important to the story going forward beyond her being alive still. At most, she'll be working as Xanthe's assassin in the background and MC's lover.

 

[DrakoGhoul]

How much do we know about the Apostles? From what I remember from my playthrough, the First is Authority, the Second is Power, the Third is Memory, and Fourth is Body (might've mixed up 3 and 4). I assume that "Grandfather" character that Alice saw after her evolution is one of them, but not sure which. The Eleventh and Twelfth are twins (though there is a trend of pairing sequential apostles together like how Authority and Power pair to make Order, and how the MC refers to 3rd and 4th as Mother and Father) but I don't know what they represent. I haven't gone into much of the deadends. Also do we still not really know what the thing that killed Mother was in the dead end where we fight Ella? If I recall correctly, it will appear in one of the MC's dreams, I assume if corruption is high enough but I'm not certain about that.

The Dead End monster that kills the 4th's avatar with Ella is the 7th. That's Valravn's Lord.

As for the Apostles, we don't know a lot still but we know there's 12 of them, each with a twin born alongside them. Each twin is closely linked together and they share their powers. The twins are:

1st and 2nd is Authority and Power
3rd and 4th is Body and Memory
5th and 6th is Time and Ether(Space)
7th and 8th is Dark and Light
9th and 10th is unknown currently
11th and 12th is Destruction and Creation

These are the characters directly connected to an Apostle.

The 1st - Jake

The 2nd - Michael

The 3rd - Ella and MC (possibly)

The 4th - Aglaecwif and MC

The 5th - Possibly Deus

The 6th - Fairy Thing and Alice

The 7th - Valravn

The 8th - Tiffany

The 9th - Eisheth

The 10th - Mystery Chosen(?)

The 11th - Evander

The 12th - Rebis, Tanos, Devana and Deryl