VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.999] [WeirdWorld]

[Snugglepuff]

I have. That part is largely unrelated to the rest of my comment.

Ok, now go back and re-read every post of mine on the recent subject of Power vs Skill, and then tell me where I said or indicated that skill was the only thing that matters, or even trumps power on its own... Be sure and read very carefully, because if I didn't specifically write that, then I never implied it.

But yeah, sure, I don’t really see how Oscar would’ve killed the MC, considering his regeneration is instinctive and doesn’t require training. So I guess you could count that as a win for the MC. At least against superhuman Oscar.

Instinctive, yes. Not unlimited though.

 

[A fleeting presence]

The mods have never been fond of the thread denizens' habit of voicing displeasure by nuking an offending person with memetic material.

 

[Tahxeol]

Oscar, while still in his human body, managed to fatally wound, or maybe even kill, the red-eyed monster. Then he dies and transforms from damage, but it is what it is. If you would give him Michael-level prep on the fight and a lot of guns, I certainly bet on him.

Honestly, from what we know of him, just not being ambushed by a monster while he was distracted by his family might have been enough

 

[hsuaisbsjsh]

If it's in relation to in-game religion/religious figures and their place in the story and setting then I'd argue it's on-topic. Not just because we've been talking about them recently... Or several times previously in the thread.

yeah but we were talking about the game too and multiple times before so it's just weird. it maybe because the admins didn't like us correcting someone lying

 

[Zolrazz]

I mean, even in the game MC with 0 skill (so 0 training too) gets killed by a couple of gun thugs at the restaurant if he tries to fight. He literally doesn’t know how to use his powers. Then he monstrifies from the damage and later gets burned alive by Malik, but whatever, just to complete the point.
Oscar, while still in his human body, managed to fatally wound, or maybe even kill, the red-eyed monster. Then he dies and transforms from damage, but it is what it is. If you would give him Michael-level prep on the fight and a lot of guns, I certainly bet on him.

Your own example doesn’t really work, I don’t know how else to say it. Sure, MC with 74 powers probably could have a very good chance against superhuman Oscar (who has only 12 Power and 4 Skills), but his strategy literally was "Look at the dude and punch the dude". And even then I doubt that MC without any transformation (again, 0 skill = 0 training) could easily kill him. His red light was just fine in stopping MC when he was running away with Danica even though MC might have been stronger stat-wise at that point. His light is Hax.

But yeah, sure, I don’t really see how Oscar would’ve killed the MC, considering his regeneration is instinctive and doesn’t require training. So I guess you could count that as a win for the MC. At least against superhuman Oscar.

Here, I think it falls more to the question of, what are the circumstances? Oscar was a monster, an aberration, and not because of his power, but because of his skill, I can't remember the exact number, but his skill as a human must have been between 60 or 70, an absurd amount, Michael and Alice are the only ones who might have more skill, but, until we know for sure, Oscar is basically the greatest or one of the most skilled

Oscar beat his monster without preparation? Yes, but we must remember that although it was a monster, it wasn't that powerful, considering Oscar's own abilities, dangerous but not powerful. Michael beat his monster, true, but two things to note, he had time to prepare, and even though he won, he would have died if it hadn't been for the 2nd Apostle

And being honest, level 1 mc could be killed by them or kill them, the odds are 50/50, because they have a lot of training, but without weapons and using only their hands, The mc would end up winning, either by his bone thorns or his poison, it would be basically this here:

 

[hsuaisbsjsh]

Here, I think it falls more to the question of, what are the circumstances? Oscar was a monster, an aberration, and not because of his power, but because of his skill, I can't remember the exact number, but his skill as a human must have been between 60 or 70, an absurd amount, Michael and Alice are the only ones who might have more skill, but, until we know for sure, Oscar is basically the greatest or one of the most skilled

Oscar beat his monster without preparation? Yes, but we must remember that although it was a monster, it wasn't that powerful, considering Oscar's own abilities, dangerous but not powerful. Michael beat his monster, true, but two things to note, he had time to prepare, and even though he won, he would have died if it hadn't been for the 2nd Apostle

And being honest, level 1 mc could be killed by them or kill them, the odds are 50/50, because they have a lot of training, but without weapons and using only their hands, The mc would end up winning, either by his bone thorns or his poison, it would be basically this here:

View attachment 4766944

if they are a human then a single hit will kill them or at least make them lose because of the poison plus only one of the poisons in that tentacle can make someone paralyzed in seconds and he has a bunch mixed in and all of them are enhanced by his powers so those poisons are even more powerful. and that's not even considering he could put the poison on his bone things or make something under the floor that makes small slices on the humans body that injects the body with that poison which would mean mc could just use his bone tentacles for range while the enemy can't get close or just make a small cut on the humans body then force a tentacle into it and just pump the poison inside them while growing his tentacle to slowly make them expand and eventually blow up.

 

[OnlineRando]

Ok, now go back and re-read every post of mine on the recent subject of Power vs Skill, and then tell me where I said or indicated that skill was the only thing that matters, or even trumps power on its own... Be sure and read very carefully, because if I didn't specifically write that, then I never implied it.

I don't get it. Do you HAVE to act like everyone that isn't you or doesn't agree with you, even slightly, is completely retarded? What do you gain from that? Ruining the enjoyment of the discussion for others?

Ok, now go back and re-read my comment on the recent subject of Power vs Skill, and then tell me where I said or indicated that you said or indicated skill was the only thing that matters, or even trumps power on its own. Be sure to read very carefully, because you seem to have a habit of insulting others and intentionally misinterpreting their arguements to invalidate them.

I don't care what you did or did not imply, not everything is about you. And you can very well disagree with me, that's your right. I only explained why, in my opinion, power is superior to skill. If I had to choose between great skill and great power, I would choose great power 100% of the time, because power is intrinsic, while mastery is earned. I can always learn how do do better, but I can't always become inherently better.

 

[Beelzebub De La Gula]

From what I've seen, power is more closely related to corruption. To me, it seems there are two paths: one based on power and corruption, which would ultimately be bad. And the other based on skill, which would be good, as it allows you to help others if they're in trouble. Of course, this is just my point of view.

 

[OnlineRando]

I mean, even in the game MC with 0 skill (so 0 training too) gets killed by a couple of gun thugs at the restaurant if he tries to fight. He literally doesn’t know how to use his powers. Then he monstrifies from the damage and later gets burned alive by Malik, but whatever, just to complete the point.
Oscar, while still in his human body, managed to fatally wound, or maybe even kill, the red-eyed monster. Then he dies and transforms from damage, but it is what it is. If you would give him Michael-level prep on the fight and a lot of guns, I certainly bet on him.

Your own example doesn’t really work, I don’t know how else to say it. Sure, MC with 74 powers probably could have a very good chance against superhuman Oscar (who has only 12 Power and 4 Skills), but his strategy literally was "Look at the dude and punch the dude". And even then I doubt that MC without any transformation (again, 0 skill = 0 training) could easily kill him. His red light was just fine in stopping MC when he was running away with Danica even though MC might have been stronger stat-wise at that point. His light is Hax.

But yeah, sure, I don’t really see how Oscar would’ve killed the MC, considering his regeneration is instinctive and doesn’t require training. So I guess you could count that as a win for the MC. At least against superhuman Oscar.

The dudes at the resturant weren't fighting MC with 74 power, they were fighting freshly awakened MC with 4 power... if not less. And even then, I am decently sure you can either always win regardless, or that you can always evade the dead end there.

Also, skill and how good MC is at using his powers isn't really related. It more so refers to how good he is at fighting, which, with enough power, shouldn't matter.

Let me use chess as an analogy; even the greatest of grandmasters couldn't win if every piece opponent had besides the king was a queen. Even if (human) Oscar could read MC like a book, and MC couldn't see the obvious mate in 1, what is Oscar even supposed to do?

And also, Oscar was definitely armed.

 

[Grimnir098]

The dudes at the resturant weren't fighting MC with 74 power, they were fighting freshly awakened MC with 4 power... if not less. And even then, I am decently sure you can either always win regardless, or that you can always evade the dead end there.

Also, skill and how good MC is at using his powers isn't really related. It more so refers to how good he is at fighting, which, with enough power, shouldn't matter.

Let me use chess as an analogy; even the greatest of grandmasters couldn't win if every piece opponent had besides the king was a queen. Even if (human) Oscar could read MC like a book, and MC couldn't see the obvious mate in 1, what is Oscar even supposed to do?

And also, Oscar was definitely armed.

1. How good MC is at using his powers is 100% one of the contributing factors to the skill stat. Yes, it refers to how good he is at fighting... and if he has powers, one of the ways of increasing how good he is at fighting is getting better at using his powers.
This is why if you haven't trained before you fight the thugs at the diner, you get a dead end. If you have trained, which increases your skill to 1, then you survive. Literally the only difference is that the MC understands how to use his powers a little.

2. All this conversation about which is better is completely pointless, because unless you're solely talking about the game stats, you have no way of accurately quantifying power and skill and measuring them against each other. Each of you is just going to disagree that any analogy the other person creates is an accurate representation.

 

[OnlineRando]

1. How good MC is at using his powers is 100% one of the contributing factors to the skill stat. Yes, it refers to how good he is at fighting... and if he has powers, one of the ways of increasing how good he is at fighting is getting better at using his powers.
This is why if you haven't trained before you fight the thugs at the diner, you get a dead end. If you have trained, which increases your skill to 1, then you survive. Literally the only difference is that the MC understands how to use his powers a little.

2. All this conversation about which is better is completely pointless, because unless you're solely talking about the game stats, you have no way of accurately quantifying power and skill and measuring them against each other. Each of you is just going to disagree that any analogy the other person creates is an accurate representation.

You can always survive that encounter, even with 0 power and 0 skill, if you run away. Even if you don't, you still beat them. Training also doesn't increase your skill, that's the cheerleader training specifically. Regular training increases power, and the training stat.

Though, I do agree this is pretty pointless.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

So people said it was unlikely that Nyx has the potential to inherit the Soul trait, but I was looking back through some scenes and these stood out to me.



This is especially notable as appearing in the same update that confirmed Soul was the combination of Light and Dark. I know she wasn't converted by an Apostle, but given the nature of her powers, it feels like a really strong implication. This would give us three characters that appear to inherit an Arbiter trait: MC inheriting Evolution, Henri inheriting Paradox, and Nyx inheriting Soul.

 

[KKStrider]

You can always survive that encounter, even with 0 power and 0 skill, if you run away. Even if you don't, you still beat them. Training also doesn't increase your skill, that's the cheerleader training specifically. Regular training increases power, and the training stat.

Though, I do agree this is pretty pointless.

A couple things to mention before we let the topic fade.

• The thug fight is capable of resulting in a dead end if you fight them, and it's labelled "No control".
• Whether training raises your skill or not is kind of arbitrary admittedly. Some raise only power, some raise only skill, some raise both. The ones that raise both usually are associated with the MC learning to use his powers better and more efficiently rather than just hand-to-hand. Examples include training his tentacle usage with Michael, training techniques with Alice and Amber, and learning to use shapeshifting better with Ella. Skill is very much tied to how well the MC can use his powers, and an unskilled MC tends to find himself in situations where he eats more hits than he should or can't exploit openings in a fight.
• A power 74 MC is a around what you'd have around the Valravn fight, and the range of a C rank monster. It's also actually weaker than a Leigong, which typically sit between 90-150 Power. An MC with 74 power with a severe inability to use his powers efficiently would legitimately be at risk of dying to a prepared combatant, especially considering anything high calibre rips through his armour like tissue at that point. And considering regular old civilians in the superhuman-verse get easy access to things like flamethrowers and full auto shotguns with high-explosive or incendiary rounds, a 74 skill human Oscar VS 74 Power MC fight might actually be significantly closer than you'd think.

 

[OnlineRando]

A couple things to mention before we let the topic fade.

• The thug fight is capable of resulting in a dead end if you fight them, and it's labelled "No control".
• Whether training raises your skill or not is kind of arbitrary admittedly. Some raise only power, some raise only skill, some raise both. The ones that raise both usually are associated with the MC learning to use his powers better and more efficiently rather than just hand-to-hand. Examples include training his tentacle usage with Michael, training techniques with Alice and Amber, and learning to use shapeshifting better with Ella. Skill is very much tied to how well the MC can use his powers, and an unskilled MC tends to find himself in situations where he eats more hits than he should or can't exploit openings in a fight.
• A power 74 MC is a around what you'd have around the Valravn fight, and the range of a C rank monster. It's also actually weaker than a Leigong, which typically sit between 90-150 Power. An MC with 74 power with a severe inability to use his powers efficiently would legitimately be at risk of dying to a prepared combatant, especially considering anything high calibre rips through his armour like tissue at that point. And considering regular old civilians in the superhuman-verse get easy access to things like flamethrowers and full auto shotguns with high-explosive or incendiary rounds, a 74 skill human Oscar VS 74 Power MC fight might actually be significantly closer than you'd think.

Good summary overall. In the end, this argument just comes down to what you measure as skill. The game seems to grant skills only when you're directly training your combat skills, which includes using your power effectively of course, but MC actually using his transformations is largely unrelated to skill (the stat). If anything, the transformation training grants power, as well as the training stat.

Although, Oscar didn't kill a leigong, that was Michael... with a ton of preptime. The monster Oscar killed IIRC is called wepwawet. The one with the slowdown ability. It most definitely isn't as strong as Leigong, and Oscar was probably armed, so my guess is that Oscar probably shot the thing critically, and then got pounced on.