VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.99999b] [WeirdWorld]

[Zolrazz]

I mean, even in the game MC with 0 skill (so 0 training too) gets killed by a couple of gun thugs at the restaurant if he tries to fight. He literally doesn’t know how to use his powers. Then he monstrifies from the damage and later gets burned alive by Malik, but whatever, just to complete the point.
Oscar, while still in his human body, managed to fatally wound, or maybe even kill, the red-eyed monster. Then he dies and transforms from damage, but it is what it is. If you would give him Michael-level prep on the fight and a lot of guns, I certainly bet on him.

Your own example doesn’t really work, I don’t know how else to say it. Sure, MC with 74 powers probably could have a very good chance against superhuman Oscar (who has only 12 Power and 4 Skills), but his strategy literally was "Look at the dude and punch the dude". And even then I doubt that MC without any transformation (again, 0 skill = 0 training) could easily kill him. His red light was just fine in stopping MC when he was running away with Danica even though MC might have been stronger stat-wise at that point. His light is Hax.

But yeah, sure, I don’t really see how Oscar would’ve killed the MC, considering his regeneration is instinctive and doesn’t require training. So I guess you could count that as a win for the MC. At least against superhuman Oscar.

Here, I think it falls more to the question of, what are the circumstances? Oscar was a monster, an aberration, and not because of his power, but because of his skill, I can't remember the exact number, but his skill as a human must have been between 60 or 70, an absurd amount, Michael and Alice are the only ones who might have more skill, but, until we know for sure, Oscar is basically the greatest or one of the most skilled

Oscar beat his monster without preparation? Yes, but we must remember that although it was a monster, it wasn't that powerful, considering Oscar's own abilities, dangerous but not powerful. Michael beat his monster, true, but two things to note, he had time to prepare, and even though he won, he would have died if it hadn't been for the 2nd Apostle

And being honest, level 1 mc could be killed by them or kill them, the odds are 50/50, because they have a lot of training, but without weapons and using only their hands, The mc would end up winning, either by his bone thorns or his poison, it would be basically this here:

 

[hsuaisbsjsh]

Here, I think it falls more to the question of, what are the circumstances? Oscar was a monster, an aberration, and not because of his power, but because of his skill, I can't remember the exact number, but his skill as a human must have been between 60 or 70, an absurd amount, Michael and Alice are the only ones who might have more skill, but, until we know for sure, Oscar is basically the greatest or one of the most skilled

Oscar beat his monster without preparation? Yes, but we must remember that although it was a monster, it wasn't that powerful, considering Oscar's own abilities, dangerous but not powerful. Michael beat his monster, true, but two things to note, he had time to prepare, and even though he won, he would have died if it hadn't been for the 2nd Apostle

And being honest, level 1 mc could be killed by them or kill them, the odds are 50/50, because they have a lot of training, but without weapons and using only their hands, The mc would end up winning, either by his bone thorns or his poison, it would be basically this here:

View attachment 4766944

if they are a human then a single hit will kill them or at least make them lose because of the poison plus only one of the poisons in that tentacle can make someone paralyzed in seconds and he has a bunch mixed in and all of them are enhanced by his powers so those poisons are even more powerful. and that's not even considering he could put the poison on his bone things or make something under the floor that makes small slices on the humans body that injects the body with that poison which would mean mc could just use his bone tentacles for range while the enemy can't get close or just make a small cut on the humans body then force a tentacle into it and just pump the poison inside them while growing his tentacle to slowly make them expand and eventually blow up.

 

[OnlineRando]

Ok, now go back and re-read every post of mine on the recent subject of Power vs Skill, and then tell me where I said or indicated that skill was the only thing that matters, or even trumps power on its own... Be sure and read very carefully, because if I didn't specifically write that, then I never implied it.

I don't get it. Do you HAVE to act like everyone that isn't you or doesn't agree with you, even slightly, is completely retarded? What do you gain from that? Ruining the enjoyment of the discussion for others?

Ok, now go back and re-read my comment on the recent subject of Power vs Skill, and then tell me where I said or indicated that you said or indicated skill was the only thing that matters, or even trumps power on its own. Be sure to read very carefully, because you seem to have a habit of insulting others and intentionally misinterpreting their arguements to invalidate them.

I don't care what you did or did not imply, not everything is about you. And you can very well disagree with me, that's your right. I only explained why, in my opinion, power is superior to skill. If I had to choose between great skill and great power, I would choose great power 100% of the time, because power is intrinsic, while mastery is earned. I can always learn how do do better, but I can't always become inherently better.

 

[alexkaiser1002]

From what I've seen, power is more closely related to corruption. To me, it seems there are two paths: one based on power and corruption, which would ultimately be bad. And the other based on skill, which would be good, as it allows you to help others if they're in trouble. Of course, this is just my point of view.

 

[OnlineRando]

I mean, even in the game MC with 0 skill (so 0 training too) gets killed by a couple of gun thugs at the restaurant if he tries to fight. He literally doesn’t know how to use his powers. Then he monstrifies from the damage and later gets burned alive by Malik, but whatever, just to complete the point.
Oscar, while still in his human body, managed to fatally wound, or maybe even kill, the red-eyed monster. Then he dies and transforms from damage, but it is what it is. If you would give him Michael-level prep on the fight and a lot of guns, I certainly bet on him.

Your own example doesn’t really work, I don’t know how else to say it. Sure, MC with 74 powers probably could have a very good chance against superhuman Oscar (who has only 12 Power and 4 Skills), but his strategy literally was "Look at the dude and punch the dude". And even then I doubt that MC without any transformation (again, 0 skill = 0 training) could easily kill him. His red light was just fine in stopping MC when he was running away with Danica even though MC might have been stronger stat-wise at that point. His light is Hax.

But yeah, sure, I don’t really see how Oscar would’ve killed the MC, considering his regeneration is instinctive and doesn’t require training. So I guess you could count that as a win for the MC. At least against superhuman Oscar.

The dudes at the resturant weren't fighting MC with 74 power, they were fighting freshly awakened MC with 4 power... if not less. And even then, I am decently sure you can either always win regardless, or that you can always evade the dead end there.

Also, skill and how good MC is at using his powers isn't really related. It more so refers to how good he is at fighting, which, with enough power, shouldn't matter.

Let me use chess as an analogy; even the greatest of grandmasters couldn't win if every piece opponent had besides the king was a queen. Even if (human) Oscar could read MC like a book, and MC couldn't see the obvious mate in 1, what is Oscar even supposed to do?

And also, Oscar was definitely armed.

 

[Grimnir098]

The dudes at the resturant weren't fighting MC with 74 power, they were fighting freshly awakened MC with 4 power... if not less. And even then, I am decently sure you can either always win regardless, or that you can always evade the dead end there.

Also, skill and how good MC is at using his powers isn't really related. It more so refers to how good he is at fighting, which, with enough power, shouldn't matter.

Let me use chess as an analogy; even the greatest of grandmasters couldn't win if every piece opponent had besides the king was a queen. Even if (human) Oscar could read MC like a book, and MC couldn't see the obvious mate in 1, what is Oscar even supposed to do?

And also, Oscar was definitely armed.

1. How good MC is at using his powers is 100% one of the contributing factors to the skill stat. Yes, it refers to how good he is at fighting... and if he has powers, one of the ways of increasing how good he is at fighting is getting better at using his powers.
This is why if you haven't trained before you fight the thugs at the diner, you get a dead end. If you have trained, which increases your skill to 1, then you survive. Literally the only difference is that the MC understands how to use his powers a little.

2. All this conversation about which is better is completely pointless, because unless you're solely talking about the game stats, you have no way of accurately quantifying power and skill and measuring them against each other. Each of you is just going to disagree that any analogy the other person creates is an accurate representation.

 

[OnlineRando]

1. How good MC is at using his powers is 100% one of the contributing factors to the skill stat. Yes, it refers to how good he is at fighting... and if he has powers, one of the ways of increasing how good he is at fighting is getting better at using his powers.
This is why if you haven't trained before you fight the thugs at the diner, you get a dead end. If you have trained, which increases your skill to 1, then you survive. Literally the only difference is that the MC understands how to use his powers a little.

2. All this conversation about which is better is completely pointless, because unless you're solely talking about the game stats, you have no way of accurately quantifying power and skill and measuring them against each other. Each of you is just going to disagree that any analogy the other person creates is an accurate representation.

You can always survive that encounter, even with 0 power and 0 skill, if you run away. Even if you don't, you still beat them. Training also doesn't increase your skill, that's the cheerleader training specifically. Regular training increases power, and the training stat.

Though, I do agree this is pretty pointless.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

So people said it was unlikely that Nyx has the potential to inherit the Soul trait, but I was looking back through some scenes and these stood out to me.



This is especially notable as appearing in the same update that confirmed Soul was the combination of Light and Dark. I know she wasn't converted by an Apostle, but given the nature of her powers, it feels like a really strong implication. This would give us three characters that appear to inherit an Arbiter trait: MC inheriting Evolution, Henri inheriting Paradox, and Nyx inheriting Soul.

 

[KKStrider]

You can always survive that encounter, even with 0 power and 0 skill, if you run away. Even if you don't, you still beat them. Training also doesn't increase your skill, that's the cheerleader training specifically. Regular training increases power, and the training stat.

Though, I do agree this is pretty pointless.

A couple things to mention before we let the topic fade.

• The thug fight is capable of resulting in a dead end if you fight them, and it's labelled "No control".
• Whether training raises your skill or not is kind of arbitrary admittedly. Some raise only power, some raise only skill, some raise both. The ones that raise both usually are associated with the MC learning to use his powers better and more efficiently rather than just hand-to-hand. Examples include training his tentacle usage with Michael, training techniques with Alice and Amber, and learning to use shapeshifting better with Ella. Skill is very much tied to how well the MC can use his powers, and an unskilled MC tends to find himself in situations where he eats more hits than he should or can't exploit openings in a fight.
• A power 74 MC is what you'd have around the Valravn fight, and the range of a C rank monster. It's also actually weaker than a Leigong, which typically sit between 90-150 Power. An MC with 74 power with a severe inability to use his powers efficiently would legitimately be at risk of dying to a prepared combatant, especially considering anything high calibre rips through his armour like tissue at that point. And considering regular old civilians in the superhuman-verse get easy access to things like flamethrowers and full auto shotguns with high-explosive or incendiary rounds, a 74 skill human Oscar VS 74 Power MC fight might actually be significantly closer than you'd think.

 

[OnlineRando]

A couple things to mention before we let the topic fade.

• The thug fight is capable of resulting in a dead end if you fight them, and it's labelled "No control".
• Whether training raises your skill or not is kind of arbitrary admittedly. Some raise only power, some raise only skill, some raise both. The ones that raise both usually are associated with the MC learning to use his powers better and more efficiently rather than just hand-to-hand. Examples include training his tentacle usage with Michael, training techniques with Alice and Amber, and learning to use shapeshifting better with Ella. Skill is very much tied to how well the MC can use his powers, and an unskilled MC tends to find himself in situations where he eats more hits than he should or can't exploit openings in a fight.
• A power 74 MC is a around what you'd have around the Valravn fight, and the range of a C rank monster. It's also actually weaker than a Leigong, which typically sit between 90-150 Power. An MC with 74 power with a severe inability to use his powers efficiently would legitimately be at risk of dying to a prepared combatant, especially considering anything high calibre rips through his armour like tissue at that point. And considering regular old civilians in the superhuman-verse get easy access to things like flamethrowers and full auto shotguns with high-explosive or incendiary rounds, a 74 skill human Oscar VS 74 Power MC fight might actually be significantly closer than you'd think.

Good summary overall. In the end, this argument just comes down to what you measure as skill. The game seems to grant skills only when you're directly training your combat skills, which includes using your power effectively of course, but MC actually using his transformations is largely unrelated to skill (the stat). If anything, the transformation training grants power, as well as the training stat.

Although, Oscar didn't kill a leigong, that was Michael... with a ton of preptime. The monster Oscar killed IIRC is called wepwawet. The one with the slowdown ability. It most definitely isn't as strong as Leigong, and Oscar was probably armed, so my guess is that Oscar probably shot the thing critically, and then got pounced on.

 

[RudeFist]

Something occurred to me when thinking about where the MC's powers will progress as he evolves. In later stages, a Superhuman's powers start veering more towards the conceptual along with the simpler "same thing but stronger" powers that simply grow with the Power stat.

I wonder if the MC's trait of Evolution along with the Body's immense regeneration might lend itself to becoming something like Doomsday from the Superman comics, where an attack might just about obliterate him, his Body trait regenerates him, and the conceptual mingling with Memory of the attack fuses into an Evolution where he becomes highly resistant, if not immune, to the type of attack that almost killed him. Right there in the moment, not over time.

That seems exactly like the kind of thing that would help MC stay in the game against some of these obscenely powerful abilities, staying in line with the fact that he doesn't specialize in firepower but rather durability and adaptability.

 

[Snugglepuff]

I don't get it. Do you HAVE to act like everyone that isn't you or doesn't agree with you, even slightly, is completely retarded?

If I was treating you as though you were even remotely retarded I wouldn't have told you to re-read previous posts, I'd have just ignored you entirely.
People can, and too often do, make mistakes when reading what another person has written, and for various reasons.

What do you gain from that? Ruining the enjoyment of the discussion for others?

If your enjoyment comes from misrepresenting what someone else wrote, then you've a strange idea of enjoying a discussion.

I don't care what you did or did not imply, not everything is about you.

When I'm responding to your response(s) to me, yes, it is. That's how discussion works... It's exactly the same for you when responding to me too.

And you can very well disagree with me, that's your right. I only explained why, in my opinion, power is superior to skill.

That's not "all you did" though.
Aside from repeating the exact same argument of DecadentDesires whilst professing to have read my posts already (meaning that I automatically would not agree with your opinion and making your posting of your opinion to me entirely redundant), your posts took the stance that I had said something I had not... That is not discussion, that's berderline gaslighting.

 

[OnlineRando]

Something occurred to me when thinking about where the MC's powers will progress as he evolves. In later stages, a Superhuman's powers start veering more towards the conceptual along with the simpler "same thing but stronger" powers that simply grow with the Power stat.

I wonder if the MC's trait of Evolution along with the Body's immense regeneration might lend itself to becoming something like Doomsday from the Superman comics, where an attack might just about obliterate him, his Body trait regenerates him, and the conceptual mingling with Memory of the attack fuses into an Evolution where he becomes highly resistant, if not immune, to the type of attack that almost killed him. Right there in the moment, not over time.

That seems exactly like the kind of thing that would help MC stay in the game against some of these obscenely powerful abilities, staying in line with the fact that he doesn't specialize in firepower but rather durability and adaptability.

 

[Ebrietas]

what type of villians lurk in this thread brother

Not a villain, brother, but a fallen hero. It was the war between the F95 and Discord servers that caused him to fall.

We were winning; it was so easy. We had more memes, more disturbing images, and more everything, but he wanted a victory, so better that Discord server never mess with us again.

And he did; they never tried to mess with F95 again. We were too powerful, too crazy, and too much of a lot of things.

But! It was the waifu wars. My memory is that of a squirrel, but it was perhaps the waifu war 3 or 4.

On that day the mods attacked; they deleted page after page of the history and culture of glorious memes, and the off-topic was created.

Only the OGs are there – those who have been with the game since the beginning, those who have seen and theory-crafted way before the time of now.

For more threads with interesting history facts, ask necromater he's the resident history recorder.

Now also join the squirrel squad, the biggest and most neutral (allegedly) group of all SH fandom!

If you don't want to join, just think about it.

We welcome everyone!

 

[JicioJ]

I wonder, can the MC tank a nuke? At which point if any did he become so powerful that the government or HERO tech (without SuperHumans) wouldn't be able to kill him

 

[KingAgamemnon]

I wonder, can the MC tank a nuke? At which point if any did he become so powerful that the government or HERO tech (without SuperHumans) couldn't restrain him

I think he could once he hits level 4, but not as he currently is

 

[Snugglepuff]

I wonder, can the MC tank a nuke? At which point if any did he become so powerful that the government or HERO tech (without SuperHumans) wouldn't be able to kill him

Depending on the yield of the warhead, I wouldn't doubt that he could tank the blast. I'm fairly certain that nukes were ruled out as a means of taking on the toughest classes of monsters in general, due to the explosive force not being enough to kill or possibly even injure them.

I'd be more curious about the radiation exposure though.
His armoured form would more than likely block alpha, beta and gamma radiation, but the real question is whether or not it'd block neutron radiation, and how well his cells and superhuman dna can handle the damaging effects.

 

[Dinoflaggelate]

Something occurred to me when thinking about where the MC's powers will progress as he evolves. In later stages, a Superhuman's powers start veering more towards the conceptual along with the simpler "same thing but stronger" powers that simply grow with the Power stat.

I wonder if the MC's trait of Evolution along with the Body's immense regeneration might lend itself to becoming something like Doomsday from the Superman comics, where an attack might just about obliterate him, his Body trait regenerates him, and the conceptual mingling with Memory of the attack fuses into an Evolution where he becomes highly resistant, if not immune, to the type of attack that almost killed him. Right there in the moment, not over time.

That seems exactly like the kind of thing that would help MC stay in the game against some of these obscenely powerful abilities, staying in line with the fact that he doesn't specialize in firepower but rather durability and adaptability.

I've been thinking that, myself. It just makes sense as a combination of Body and Memory, even without any conceptual business. We've seen that infusing his memories into his body lets the MC automate his transformations. It should be possible at the highest end to automate the process so much the MC doesn't even have to design his transformations, just have his body shift on its own to handle the current problem. Ella actually says this update that combining Body and Memory is the key to "ultimate adaptation". Maybe she meant something else, but with her emphasis on how Body is more important and Memory is supposed to support it, I'm betting she means that sort of adaptive transformation.

It would be cool if we see something like that the next time the Eye manifests. It's implied to remember its deaths across the Dead Ends, so maybe it will have adapted to survive what's killed it before. Like, what if when Deus shows up toprune the timeline, finds his attacks ineffective, and has to bring in someone else who hasn't fought the Eye yet to handle it for him? I think that would be a fun comeback from the Eye's loss against him.

 

[obibobi]

Depending on the yield of the warhead, I wouldn't doubt that he could tank the blast. I'm fairly certain that nukes were ruled out as a means of taking on the toughest classes of monsters in general, due to the explosive force not being enough to kill or possibly even injure them.

I'd be more curious about the radiation exposure though.
His armoured form would more than likely block alpha, beta and gamma radiation, but the real question is whether or not it'd block neutron radiation, and how well his cells and superhuman dna can handle the damaging effects.

The MC could alter his body into a fly and can literally change his ass into a sofa, he completely changes what he is with a thought, even without factoring superhuman durability, cell damage being an issue just wouldn't make sense.

 

[Snugglepuff]

cell damage being an issue just wouldn't make sense.

I don't think you quite understand the effects of radiation damage on the cells and dna of living organisms... Hell, even the damage it does to inorganic materials.