Grimnir098
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I agree that Authority probably isn't just mind control, but I'd be careful about taking it too far ("commanding any aspect of reality"), because then what does Order do?
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I see your point, but these things can get muddled really quickly.
Authority, at its simplest definition, just means the right to decide stuff, so it's definitely possible a user could just do whatever at higher levels.
The thing is, if that were the case, there would be no distinction between Order, which Aglaecwif said is capable of rewriting the laws of reality, and Authority.
Not to mention that you could also stretch the other 11 traits to achieve this sort of omnicompetence fairly easily. "Body could reshape everything in existence into a form the user sees fit", for example.
Er Pisha Jimeno
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They should appear after the shopkeep scene, just keep playing normally, if not, then it may be a bug.
The meat vendor appeared, were the Memories of Chaos also supposed to appear before this menu choice?
Er Pisha Jimeno
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Zolrazz
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Damn it, creating a game was one of the worst decisions of my life.
My brothers, I apologize for bothering you, but I was away for a while and couldn't participate in the last broadcasts. Did I miss anything important? And did the weird world say anything about the next update?
My brothers, I apologize for bothering you, but I was away for a while and couldn't participate in the last broadcasts. Did I miss anything important? And did the weird world say anything about the next update?
KyngC
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sirpedro7
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Well, I don't like writing much because I tend to write too much when I start; that's because English isn't my native language (I speak Spanish), and to say that I'm a terrible writer is giving me too much credit xD, so it's not a good combination, but since we're talking about memory, I think it's good to give my point of view.
I believe there are things we need to take into account when theorizing about the path of memory (and, for that matter, other paths). As I see it, “all roads lead to Rome”; I believe, as is logical, that more than one path is capable of entering the territory of another, but there will be paths whose abilities are better or more akin depending on the path itself. I think WW wanted to orient the paths, in addition to their definitions, also to where they focus. In the case of authority, what differentiates it from truth? Because truth cannot give a command where the result is generated by an action other than the action performed by the person, why not say “you cut your own throat” and objectively make it a reality? It would have to be because authority needs to influence something with will. We did not see anyone in authority able to give orders to something without consciousness, but we did see it in truth (since authority comes from order, and from what we can see, order is the laws that govern this sphere, we can say that without power, authority cannot touch what it does not have will over, or at least what we have seen so far). I can believe that this is not absolute because there are some mutations, but for now, without mixing other paths, it seems that the limit of authority lies in what has consciousness. At the same time, we don't see Truth affecting people's physical bodies, let alone their minds (although an interesting exception should be made for WW's mention that Truth would be a good healer when it comes to creating flesh, although I think he said that this is in the case of combining paths, since he doesn't want any path to heal on its own, with the exception of Ella xD, although that's another long topic that I've already discussed, and although I don't like what WW did with healing in the game, I understand it narratively), so we know that the limits of the paths to provide balance will be in touching the territory of other paths, but if there is no mixing of paths, it should not be able to do what another does in its entirety, but at most be a few steps behind another, as seems to be the case with memory and illusion, for example.
To theorize a path, we would have to look at the witnesses we already have in the game (in the case of Memory, which is what interests us for now, these would be the MC, Syla, the Sylats, and Lethe Kori, although the latter is unconfirmed), see which ones are pure, since mixing them would give other possibilities, take into account their genetics (which makes them unique and gives them a predisposition to their abilities and powers), corruption (we hardly take this into account, but it is said that this causes variations in the abilities of the spawn, and I don't see why it wouldn't affect evolutions, even if only slightly), and external catalysts (such as the cases of Charlie, the twins, and so on).
We know a lot about Syla, but WW made almost everything we know happen in the intangible world; however, we have the Sylat, and we should think that the abilities they can perform should also be possible for Syla, being their matriarch. The entire branch descended from Syla should be able to do what the Sylat do as long as they are pure, that is, the mind can modify the physical body, but only to the extent of the information obtained, so copying other bodies and abilities is more than possible in the material world. Then the body will go where the mind tells it to, or at least that's the case in Syla's branch (with limits so far on the ability to extract, assimilate, and reproduce information). We also have contactless mind reading, personal realm shifting, and shifting with another person; we can't use the other abilities because they were made in the immaterial world.
There was one thing Syla achieved that I think is important to mention in this case: her DNA was modified by her fear of lightning (evolution is adaptation; ideally, it should be something positive, but unfortunately, that's not always the case), and it caused weakness in both her and her entire lineage, but in her final moments, that weakness was modified again to the point where it became something that could absorb and give her energy. the body does not have this trait of subconscious adaptation.
Now let's move on to Lethe Kori. I know she's not confirmed, but based on what she tells us she can do in the nightmares she gives us (she was able to change a person's gender, so it seems to me to be a memory implementation) and her desire to obtain more memories, her ability to change realms, even partially, to become intangible, I think she has enough points to be taken into account. The problem is that, since we can't confirm that she's pure, we can't be sure that intangibility is unique to the memory (although it makes sense). We know she's not descended from Syla because she doesn't refer to her as matriarch.
In conclusion: We have a change of realm (even if it is partial, although I think that is even more broken), a change in physical appearance at the template level (this includes unique things like Syla's Egregor, although I think it requires a massive amount of memory to use it), mind reading (without contact and within a certain area), information imprinting (making people see memories), information storage (as we have seen, objects can store memories, power, abilities, etc.), memory storage (a greater capacity to store information), memory implementation (they should be the ones who learn things most easily, with their limit being whether they understand them, although logically even that should not be a limit), control of information input (sight, smell, hearing, etc.). I would add the editing and copying of information, but I can tell you right now that WW doesn't want that for memory xD; it wants memory to be like a coin that can be given away, and when you give it away, you're going to forget it, whether you want to or not xD. That and, apparently, to be stronger in Memory, you need to store as many memories as possible.
For now, I think that's all for what I consider to be the realm of pure memory. It's important to remember that, even if something may seem logical, WW will also limit it based on the other points I mentioned above (genetics, after all). I think a good example of this would be Ella and the last villain we faced (I can't remember his name xD), both pure bodies, but with very different orientations.
I believe there are things we need to take into account when theorizing about the path of memory (and, for that matter, other paths). As I see it, “all roads lead to Rome”; I believe, as is logical, that more than one path is capable of entering the territory of another, but there will be paths whose abilities are better or more akin depending on the path itself. I think WW wanted to orient the paths, in addition to their definitions, also to where they focus. In the case of authority, what differentiates it from truth? Because truth cannot give a command where the result is generated by an action other than the action performed by the person, why not say “you cut your own throat” and objectively make it a reality? It would have to be because authority needs to influence something with will. We did not see anyone in authority able to give orders to something without consciousness, but we did see it in truth (since authority comes from order, and from what we can see, order is the laws that govern this sphere, we can say that without power, authority cannot touch what it does not have will over, or at least what we have seen so far). I can believe that this is not absolute because there are some mutations, but for now, without mixing other paths, it seems that the limit of authority lies in what has consciousness. At the same time, we don't see Truth affecting people's physical bodies, let alone their minds (although an interesting exception should be made for WW's mention that Truth would be a good healer when it comes to creating flesh, although I think he said that this is in the case of combining paths, since he doesn't want any path to heal on its own, with the exception of Ella xD, although that's another long topic that I've already discussed, and although I don't like what WW did with healing in the game, I understand it narratively), so we know that the limits of the paths to provide balance will be in touching the territory of other paths, but if there is no mixing of paths, it should not be able to do what another does in its entirety, but at most be a few steps behind another, as seems to be the case with memory and illusion, for example.
To theorize a path, we would have to look at the witnesses we already have in the game (in the case of Memory, which is what interests us for now, these would be the MC, Syla, the Sylats, and Lethe Kori, although the latter is unconfirmed), see which ones are pure, since mixing them would give other possibilities, take into account their genetics (which makes them unique and gives them a predisposition to their abilities and powers), corruption (we hardly take this into account, but it is said that this causes variations in the abilities of the spawn, and I don't see why it wouldn't affect evolutions, even if only slightly), and external catalysts (such as the cases of Charlie, the twins, and so on).
We know a lot about Syla, but WW made almost everything we know happen in the intangible world; however, we have the Sylat, and we should think that the abilities they can perform should also be possible for Syla, being their matriarch. The entire branch descended from Syla should be able to do what the Sylat do as long as they are pure, that is, the mind can modify the physical body, but only to the extent of the information obtained, so copying other bodies and abilities is more than possible in the material world. Then the body will go where the mind tells it to, or at least that's the case in Syla's branch (with limits so far on the ability to extract, assimilate, and reproduce information). We also have contactless mind reading, personal realm shifting, and shifting with another person; we can't use the other abilities because they were made in the immaterial world.
There was one thing Syla achieved that I think is important to mention in this case: her DNA was modified by her fear of lightning (evolution is adaptation; ideally, it should be something positive, but unfortunately, that's not always the case), and it caused weakness in both her and her entire lineage, but in her final moments, that weakness was modified again to the point where it became something that could absorb and give her energy. the body does not have this trait of subconscious adaptation.
Now let's move on to Lethe Kori. I know she's not confirmed, but based on what she tells us she can do in the nightmares she gives us (she was able to change a person's gender, so it seems to me to be a memory implementation) and her desire to obtain more memories, her ability to change realms, even partially, to become intangible, I think she has enough points to be taken into account. The problem is that, since we can't confirm that she's pure, we can't be sure that intangibility is unique to the memory (although it makes sense). We know she's not descended from Syla because she doesn't refer to her as matriarch.
In conclusion: We have a change of realm (even if it is partial, although I think that is even more broken), a change in physical appearance at the template level (this includes unique things like Syla's Egregor, although I think it requires a massive amount of memory to use it), mind reading (without contact and within a certain area), information imprinting (making people see memories), information storage (as we have seen, objects can store memories, power, abilities, etc.), memory storage (a greater capacity to store information), memory implementation (they should be the ones who learn things most easily, with their limit being whether they understand them, although logically even that should not be a limit), control of information input (sight, smell, hearing, etc.). I would add the editing and copying of information, but I can tell you right now that WW doesn't want that for memory xD; it wants memory to be like a coin that can be given away, and when you give it away, you're going to forget it, whether you want to or not xD. That and, apparently, to be stronger in Memory, you need to store as many memories as possible.
For now, I think that's all for what I consider to be the realm of pure memory. It's important to remember that, even if something may seem logical, WW will also limit it based on the other points I mentioned above (genetics, after all). I think a good example of this would be Ella and the last villain we faced (I can't remember his name xD), both pure bodies, but with very different orientations.
Zekethor2
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Yes, I know, and at first I also thought about aspects of reality for the invaders, but whenever I tried to come up with something, it already fell under one of the aspects of reality that the 12 apostles already covered. I thought of things like “feelings,” and then maybe an entity that would embody that, but if you think about it, that’s already tied to body, mind, and fantasy. So what would be left for the invaders, I wondered?
At first, I thought of opposite concepts to the apostles’ ideas, like the opposite of authority being freedom, or something like that, but then it just felt kind of silly and uncreative. That’s when I came to the conclusion that these invader arbiters ( I used the term “arbiters,” but these beings could easily have another designation instead of arbiters) would need to be concepts entirely different from the six main arbiters, and equally powerful. That’s how I ended up with the idea of these six. Of course, they don’t have to be six, and they don’t have to be exactly what I came up with, it was just an idea.
So I’ll leave you with the challenge: try to think of beings just as powerful as the arbiters, and what concepts they might bring with them, beings with powers capable of rivaling and even destroying three of the arbiters, while forcing the remaining three to annihilate themselves. And do it in a way that makes it as creative as you’d like.
Grimnir098
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You're thinking of Yuren, but I'm extremely skeptical that he was a pure Body. More likely, he had Creation and maybe Power in addition to Body.
There's just no way a pure Body spawn should be able to turn into neon.
obibobi
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I think the problem here is you have this idea based on what Memory should be able to do based on how the MC uses it and I have this idea based on a character that actually specialises and focuses in it. Now how the MC has used it for his own specific purposes has been very powerful since basically day 1, at level 1, it has allowed him to perfectly copy traits and minds down to the genetic level and that's already a more abstract concept of memory than what most people think of.
A focused Memory user would manipulate Memory as most people think of it, how a typical memory user would specialise and I do not see them as being this weak utility user, they would be weak physically, as make sense, but they would be one of the more dangerous mental manipulators, just directly attacking the mind.
Why slowly? based on the relative power of other pure trait user, I would say they could easily reconstruct memories, its literally in their name, I just don't see one of the core 12 traits being bad at manipulating their namesake and as I keep saying, I hold the position that the MC's lack of focus is why it seems weak. His mom was pure memory and I highly doubt Weird would put her in the bottom half of the 12.
I think a pure body definitely can since body is meant to tackle all physical stuff. Solid, Liquid, Gas, everything physical. MC could already become a pseudo heavy liquid at lv 2 and a proper water-ry thinner liquid at 3. Id say the obviosu next step towards his progress would be to become gas, literally, Yuren is supposed to be a foreshadowing for what MC could do in the future 100%.
Hmm Im thinking differently. By invaders you obviously mean beings that come from outside our universe/reality, a true definition of alien, someone who came from different universal laws, concepts, rules, something which would be so alien to our minds that we wouldnt even be able to comprehend them, we would get scared, get mad. The six alien nemesis of our creator gods that youve thought of, what are they? Are they the creator gods of their own universe? Or do they serve some different purpose in their universe? What is their universe like? The 6 arbiters youve described all sound like generic evil monster characters, individuality disappears, creeping rot that spreads like a plague, silent erasure of all things, they have no distinction amongst themselves, theyre all evil and cause destruction and death. What kinda universe are you even trying to create? How do their powers shape their universe? Are they all just parasites/demons hopping around the multiverse consuming different universes? Is their universe/dimension/realm just a giant shithole where nothing good happens? Nullification - Thats just Chaos/Destruction, Parasitism - Thats just Outer Twins/Parasitism, a concept that exists in our universe. Every other are just concepts that clearly already exist in our universe and are very easily imaginable, do you realize how uncreative they all seem? I cannot properly explain my criticism because I dont have the skills, time and brains to do that, but my entire point is that the 'invaders', who are beings from another universe, are supposed to be completely alien and incomprehensible to us, their universe, its laws, rules, concept, are supposed to be unimaginable, and that the best thing we can do is keep things vague, like what weirdworld did with the outer twins. All we know about them is that they did some wild shit with the arbiters and our universe, and now they feed off of whatever energy that comes off of their wild corruption experiment. We dont know what they look like, where they come from, how their powers work, and its best to keep it vague or explain it in the far future, by someone like weirdworld who is a better worldbuilder, writer, thinker, and...this is his story so he can do whatever he wants. Theres no point doing this thought experiment, because it'll look subpar and stupid, especially from guys like us, because coming up with alien concepts, imaginations, physics and all that, is impossible until we see them. I swear the 6 arbiters you came up with read like they're all created by chatgpt.
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Zekethor2
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Wow, I really liked your text. I usually find it “unpleasant” to be contradicted, but at the same time, when I’m surprised by an answer, I actually enjoy it a lot. That’s why I threw out the challenge, just to provoke a little, and I ended up liking it. I completely agree with you: this whole universe feels heavily inspired by Lovecraft, and the entities there are exactly as you described, “aliens that would drive mortals insane if they tried to comprehend them.” That’s a fantastic concept.
For me, what ruins many otherwise great stories is when things are overexplained, stripping away mystery and blowing everything up to excessive levels. Two good examples are:
1 – Attack on Titan
I don’t know if you’ve watched it, but up until the mystery of the world was revealed, why the Titans existed, where they came from, what the bigger picture was, the story was incredibly captivating, with a mystery that was so engaging to follow. But then everything was explained down to the smallest details, even the founder’s origin, even scientific explanations. Of course, that’s not what ruined the ending, but it definitely drained much of the magic from the series.
2 – Dragon Ball Super
Goku and the others reaching the level of gods, and then just escalating endlessly until they had the power to destroy universes, it feels like it lost its core essence. The real charm isn’t just raw power; it’s about story, conflict, growth, character development, charisma, and all that.
So yes, man, I really agree with you. And honestly, my own ideas seem very weak in light of the point you raised, those concepts truly sound more like villainous entities rather than incomprehensible forces or aliens from other universes. In the end, I don’t know if Superhuman’s plot will ever reach that kind of cosmic scale (I actually hope it doesn’t), even though Ella mentioned they’ll eventually have to deal with the parasites somehow. But if it does go there, I just hope it’s done intelligently, while keeping the essence intact.
Grimnir098
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I'm pretty sure Body is supposed to be stuff found naturally in organic beings. I recall WW even mentioning that if he ever wrote the MC turning into titanium it must be a typo, and it's meant to be tungsten.
The MC turns into a liquid but that doesn't mean he's turning into water or something, and I'm specifically talking about the matter Yuren turns into, not his state. You think the MC is going to be able to transform into uranium in the future?
I have this idea of what Memory should be capable of based on what MC AND Syla (in the dream world no less) have displayed, as well as the general rules of how powers work.
Powers that directly affect those with monster power can be resisted by those relative to or greater than you. The effect would be shorter and possibly weaker. Examples include Body (on someone else), Authority, and, you guessed it, Memory.
Just like "permanent" shapeshifting can be undone by a relative and resisting superhuman or monster, "permanent" Memory-caused damage should work the same. Just like using Authority on someone relative and resisting results in the command breaking after seconds at most, the same should apply to Memory.
Why slowly you ask? Because using Memory to reconstruct someone's memories in a way that would have them believe they should obey your commands would be slower than walking up to them saying "obey me" with Authority.
KingAgamemnon
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Ella can transform parts of herself into steel and it is specifically because she force shifted MC into steel that he can do it now, and it's implied that MC can transform into non-organic things, he just needs to learn how to do it from Ella.
Grimnir098
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Steel obviously doesn't naturally form in the body, but isn't it possible to make steel just be removing the impurities from iron?
Also, when does Ella force shift MC into steel? I only remember her doing that for iron, back when he was level 1. When he claims that he can't make iron because he can only make stuff out of organic material, she points out that the buttons on his jacket metal. (And maybe that there is iron in the human body? Not sure).
Attack on Titan.....yes, Ive seen Attack on Titan, I used to be obsessed with Attack on Titan! It hijacked my mind for 4-5 years straight. It was such a good story. The irony is, despite being such a huge fan, I never sat down and watched the anime from start to finish, for various reasons, relying mostly on countless youtube videos, comments, clips, research videos, theories, etc etc. I only ever followed the manga from I guess chapter 100/105 to 139. Its pretty embarrassing to say the least. Coming back to what you said, I think I disagree. My complaint is the opposite, that Isayama left alot of the stuff unexplained and open to interpretation, like what the Origin of all life and matter was supposed to be, what the cabin vision Mikasa remembered was all about. Was it an alternate timeline? Why was it so confusing compared to the Armin one? Why did Eren turn into a fucking bird? But all in all every major lore reveal was done perfectly in my opinion. The reveal that Eren was the one who ate Grisha, the reveal about what exists outside the walls, the reveal that Eren is the one who 'motivated' Grisha to get the Founding Titan, all of it had proper build up, hype, structure. I think everything fits together perfectly. I guess you're talking about the few seconds of information cards that show up in the anime? If so I never watched the anime so you may be right. When I read 139 back in 2021, unsurprisingly, I was kinda disappointed (And depressed, in...I guess a bittersweet way), for reasons every aot fan is aware of. But honestly after watching the anime ending pretty recently back in may this year, I can say the ending was really really good. I never expected Mappa to handle it so very well, and the changes Isayama implemented really fixed a few flaws the ending had. I know people are gonna shit on me for saying this because of how polarizing this ending is still.
I never watched the dragon ball anime to comment on it. Ofcourse I researched on it in my own way, like I did Attack on Titan, but since Dragon ball is so vast you have to actually sit down and watch the anime to understand how the DB fans feel.
Also, I have faith that Weirdworld will deliver. The outer twins, cosmology, plot, MC, love interests, power scaling, characters, gods, all of it will be tied up nicely in the end. Some fans are already saying that the previous few arcs, like the dream world arc, monster world arc, have disappointed. I honestly dont feel that way so I guess Im the fool who will fail to realize in the future whenever WW delivers a disappointing update, cause...I dont know what they call it...I lack the artistic sense.