VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.99999b] [WeirdWorld]

[Zeus the Fucker]

Authority is basically mind already, in the sense that you control the minds of others. Memory is information manipulation, not specifically "memories" in the human sense.

A true "Mind" trait as you think of it would be a combination of Authority and Memory, maybe even fantasy, but it's a much more arbitrary concept than those the twelve apostles represent.

Each of the twelve main traits can easily be understood via just their name, even described with one word, while explaining what "Mind" could do would require a much more specific explanation. It could control people, read memories, possibly show illusions... unlike the apostle traits, there isn't just one thing the power could do.

Not really. Authority has way more potential than mind control. It should be capable of commanding anything. Like an opened door to close. Or to stop a fire by saying stop.

Do you see the difference. Mind would read minds, control minds and using some of memory powers which is part of it could also change a person's entire life. Can also do things like illusions and madness. Mind control and Authority's control are different in every way. Authority only controls in crude ways while mind could absolutely control like be in that person's body. As I said it's too op on intelligent minds. Swapping actual bodies or linking up 10 minds in 1 body.

 

[Zeus the Fucker]

I agree that Authority probably isn't just mind control, but I'd be careful about taking it too far ("commanding any aspect of reality"), because then what does Order do?

At that point Order will be authority backed by power. Before it would be just authority like a king commanding his absolutely powerful soldier while order would have the strongest soldier be the king

 

[OnlineRando]

Not really. Authority has way more potential than mind control. It should be capable of commanding anything. Like an opened door to close. Or to stop a fire by saying stop.

Do you see the difference. Mind would read minds, control minds and using some of memory powers which is part of it could also change a person's entire life. Can also do things like illusions and madness. Mind control and Authority's control are different in every way. Authority only controls in crude ways while mind could absolutely control like be in that person's body. As I said it's too op on intelligent minds. Swapping actual bodies or linking up 10 minds in 1 body.

"Authority could command anything". "Power could do anything". "Body could reshape anything". "Memory could alter the world's history", etc etc etc.

While some of these could definitely be possible, so far, there has not been a single instance of a pure Authority user commanding something that doesn't have a will. In the first place, the word "Authority" has the connotation of having influence over the living, or at the very least, things that can respond and act accordingly.

Using your example of a king, regardless of how much kingly authority you possess, telling a rock to move itself would never work. You'd need to tell someone capable of moving the rock to do so.

Each of the apostles calls itself "God's X". The first apostle, for example, calls itself God's will, the second, God's strength, and the third, God's form.

Without God's power, why would God's will do anything? If you take a god's supposed omnipotence away, why would their will have any significance?

I'm pretty sure the only thing being "God's X" in these cases grants is superiority over the subject matter. Without the ability to exert God's strength, God's will is only directly superior to other wills, and as such, only directly affects them. Just like God's strength, meaning the Power trait, only directly affects what amounts to energy, and can't just decide to mind control someone because "it's powerful".

What you're describing is closer to Truth than Authority.

 

[Deleted member 9635502]

I'm pretty sure Body is supposed to be stuff found naturally in organic beings. I recall WW even mentioning that if he ever wrote the MC turning into titanium it must be a typo, and it's meant to be tungsten.
The MC turns into a liquid but that doesn't mean he's turning into water or something, and I'm specifically talking about the matter Yuren turns into, not his state. You think the MC is going to be able to transform into uranium in the future?

Just think about it. Every element in our universe from Hydrogen to Uranium, every building block, atoms, quarks, cells, and the stuff that are made outta them, Tissues, Cars, Humans, Planets, Oxygen, Nebulas, which apostle would govern them? Would that be Authority? Power? Space? Time? Destruction? Fantasy? Its clear that all the physical stuff like that is governed by Body, its in the name, maybe some specific stuff like photons are out of its reach because of the 8th. So of course a highest potential pure spawn from the 3rd should be able to shapeshift into literally every element, compound and other complex stuff there is and can be, depending on his power, prowess, abilities, experience etc. Yuren turning into uranium and neon is not surprising at all since Ella can shapeshift down to an atomic level, just imagine how mind fucking that is. The thing is Yuren is a body spawn, maybe he has some other traits but I bet its majority body, and through evolution or maybe because of a special monster parent he has acquired the ability to shapeshift into a wide range of distinct elements, from carbon all the way to neon. MC has gone in a different path right now, but since he was infected by the OG 3rd apostle themself, its not entirely out of reach that with enough training and experience MC too can turn into stuff like neon and uranium. Also about Ella, I checked out the earlier parts of the story and Ella does suggest MC to use steel instead of bones on his tentacles. She explains everything that is needed to create Steel, glass and much more is present in the human body. So yes MC and Ella can create steel and inorganic stuff like that like Ella said. The quotes are from the training event with Ella when MC is still level 1 so very early in the game.

 

[Grimnir098]

Just think about it. Every element in our universe from Hydrogen to Uranium, every building block, atoms, quarks, cells, and the stuff that are made outta them, Tissues, Cars, Humans, Planets, Oxygen, Nebulas, which apostle would govern them? Would that be Authority? Power? Space? Time? Destruction? Fantasy? Its clear that all the physical stuff like that is governed by Body, its in the name, maybe some specific stuff like photons are out of its reach because of the 8th.

What about Creation?

So of course a highest potential pure spawn from the 3rd should be able to shapeshift into literally every element, compound and other complex stuff there is and can be, depending on his power, prowess, abilities, experience etc. Yuren turning into uranium and neon is not surprising at all since Ella can shapeshift down to an atomic level, just imagine how mind fucking that is.

Being able to shapeshift on the atomic level does not mean she can shapeshift into anything. It's referring to the fact that she has some degree of control over her atoms. Maybe she can turn into fucking uranium, but if so, why didn't she show anything like that in any of her fights?

The thing is Yuren is a body spawn, maybe he has some other traits but I bet its majority body, and through evolution or maybe because of a special monster parent he has acquired the ability to shapeshift into a wide range of distinct elements, from carbon all the way to neon. MC has gone in a different path right now, but since he was infected by the OG 3rd apostle themself, its not entirely out of reach that with enough training and experience MC too can turn into stuff like neon and uranium. Also about Ella, I checked out the earlier parts of the story and Ella does suggest MC to use steel instead of bones on his tentacles. She explains everything that is needed to create Steel, glass and much more is present in the human body. So yes MC and Ella can create steel and inorganic stuff like that like Ella said. The quotes are from the training event with Ella when MC is still level 1 so very early in the game.

You're literally supporting my point. Ella explains that everything needed to create steel is already present in the body, implying that is a necessary precondition for being able to shapeshift into it.
Uranium is not present in the body.

 

[KyngC]

All apostles can and will cross over into each other's domains at times. So each apostles can affect and manipulate something that another apostles can as well (just not as well). That said, Yuren seems to deal with energy with his shape shifting so most likely he has some of the Power trait in him.

 

[OnlineRando]

What about Creation?

Creation is moreso making something out of nothing. Body is controlling matter that already exists.

 

[obibobi]

I have this idea of what Memory should be capable of based on what MC AND Syla (in the dream world no less) have displayed, as well as the general rules of how powers work.

Powers that directly affect those with monster power can be resisted by those relative to or greater than you. The effect would be shorter and possibly weaker. Examples include Body (on someone else), Authority, and, you guessed it, Memory.

Just like "permanent" shapeshifting can be undone by a relative and resisting superhuman or monster, "permanent" Memory-caused damage should work the same. Just like using Authority on someone relative and resisting results in the command breaking after seconds at most, the same should apply to Memory.

Why slowly you ask? Because using Memory to reconstruct someone's memories in a way that would have them believe they should obey your commands would be slower than walking up to them saying "obey me" with Authority.

Which as has been pointed out multiple times, is stupid to do and why arguments with you involve a lot of repeating. The MC puts no effort into Memory offensively and Syla had one of the highest tier fights using some of the most powerful uses of memory as a concept where she would turn into and use the powers of people she had memories of and it was against possibly one of the strongest characters we've seen so far. There is this absolutely gargantuan gap of unknown that we haven't see it properly used. In truth we haven't even seen what a proper level 1 would look like in using Memory the MC puts that little focus on it offensively.

I thought you said you understood the power system? Authority is so much better at affecting others than Body because if it couldn't it would be useless, Laurie's power can affect opponents stronger than herself, the reason body is limited on affecting others is because that's not its specialty by story telling design, but Memory, even the MC as a novice of Memory has an easier time using it on opponents than he does the trait he's put much more focus on including changing bodies.

But that's not what happened with Jake and authority, Jake is still considered a dangerous power house for his level, even by Ella, he was just unfortunate enough to go up against the MC who had a level of resistance thanks to Memory and Deryl whose power gave him oddly specific plot armor. He effortlessly beat Hero agents of his level and could still potentially ware down stronger.

Again, not how the power system works, Deryl doesn't need to slowly rebuild every device, the MC doesn't need to slowly turn into an animal, Ella who required serious study to take on some of her forms doesn't transform slowly into complex forms, Shen doesn't need to carefully draw his illusions. Memory is literally the power of thought, why would thought be slower than all the other things I mentioned.

I am not making the case that Memory would be some unstoppable force, I agree it can be resisted as any power that directly influences, but if any power is going to be the bargain bitch telepath, that's dime a dozen for the X-Men, its Memory.

 

[OnlineRando]

I thought you said you understood the power system? Authority is so much better at affecting others than Body because if it couldn't it would be useless, Laurie's power can affect opponents stronger than herself, the reason body is limited on affecting others is because that's not its specialty by story telling design, but Memory, even the MC as a novice of Memory has an easier time using it on opponents than he does the trait he's put much more focus on including changing bodies.

What are you even talking about? It only stands to reason that someone with a power that directly affects others in a way that contests against their power, like Body, Authority, and Memory, couldn't immediately, completely, and permanently afect someone with a similar power level to them. And Laurie's power isn't like that, it's just an attack with a specific property that affects whoever is hit. There's no power contest as far as we're aware.

Again, not how the power system works, Deryl doesn't need to slowly rebuild every device, the MC doesn't need to slowly turn into an animal, Ella who required serious study to take on some of her forms doesn't transform slowly into complex forms, Shen doesn't need to carefully draw his illusions. Memory is literally the power of thought, why would thought be slower than all the other things I mentioned.

This would be different because every single person has completely different memories. Sure, a memory user might learn a few tricks to make it simpler, faster, or more efficient, but it's not as simple as building a machine from a blueprint you already made, or transforming into a form you already know. To turn someone into your subordinate, each person would require different alterations. Unless you just mean to say they'd completely erase someone's previous mind and replace it with a prebuilt subservient one, which would remove a lot of the reason behind doing that in the first place.

To have them keep their memories and still choose to do as you say is the challenge, because you can't actually force them to do exactly as you want. You'd need to edit their memories in a way that would have them conciously submit to you. Just giving them a memory of saying once "yeah sure I'll be your goddamn slave" would most definitely conflict with their previous memories, and I doubt the one you created would win against a lifetime of experiences.

Alternatively, they could just extract any relevant information from the target, erase all their memories, insert the previously mentioned prebuilt subservient memories, and give them the relevant memories, but how long extracting only relevant information would take is also questionable, and this also couldn't be used against someone with relative power, unless the target is completely incapable of fighting back for some reason.

I am not making the case that Memory would be some unstoppable force, I agree it can be resisted as any power that directly influences, but if any power is going to be the bargain bitch telepath, that's dime a dozen for the X-Men, its Memory.

It's probably the closest, I'm not going to lie, but an actual X-Men telepath would sooner be a combo of Authority, Memory, and Fantasy, than just Memory.

 

[MrFranky26]

Two good examples are:
1 – Attack on Titan
2 – Dragon Ball Super

I never seen mention of "Lord of Mystery" chinese web novel in this thread, it give me a lot of superhuman vibes.
Steampunk power fantasy with lovecraft shit (cosmic ktulhu invaders\corruption\madness theme), many levels of evolving (also interesting way to do so), mystery lore with many gods\domains, interesting concept of powers.

 

[OnlineRando]

I never seen mention of "Lord of Mystery" chinese web novel in this thread, it give me a lot of superhuman vibes.
Steampunk power fantasy with lovecraft shit (cosmic ktulhu invaders\corruption\madness theme), many levels of evolving (also interesting way to do so), mystery lore with many gods\domains, interesting concept of powers.

I tried to read it like a year ago... 10 chapters in, and I gave up because the pacing was too slow and the prose was pretty bad (which I expected tbf). I had other things to do anyway.

Then the anime came out... It's very pretty, but the pacing is horrendously fast. To give some context, the anime passed my meager 10 chapters within fifteen minutes of the first episode... The music is also overbearing as hell, give me silence for a moment. Actually, a moment of relaxation in general, you'd think a show with 13 30-minute episodes could give you little time to process what you see/hear before moving on.

I still watched it, though. Solid 7.5. The ED is great too.

 

[sirpedro7]

Not really. Authority has way more potential than mind control. It should be capable of commanding anything. Like an opened door to close. Or to stop a fire by saying stop.

Do you see the difference. Mind would read minds, control minds and using some of memory powers which is part of it could also change a person's entire life. Can also do things like illusions and madness. Mind control and Authority's control are different in every way. Authority only controls in crude ways while mind could absolutely control like be in that person's body. As I said it's too op on intelligent minds. Swapping actual bodies or linking up 10 minds in 1 body.

Everything you say may make sense in some types of memory engenderings, but the problem I see is that WW makes it very clear that mind control is in the realm of authority. It doesn't matter if it makes sense that you could control minds with memory in a different way; allowing that would be straying too far into the realm of another path (which is also why memory does not touch mental projections that are not memories; that was given to illusion). It would only be possible in cases where there was some kind of hybrid of authority/memory. I can believe in brainwashing that takes time, but it doesn't make much sense for something to specialize in that when authority exists. I won't add this to my analysis of memory, but another thing to take into account for the paths are the limits that WW wants to have for now.


I'll try to be concise with this example (I could do a whole analysis of the MC, but I don't want to make another long post xD). The MC should be able to learn and fight with ease, at breakneck speed and with perfect memory. If memory were considered the best way to handle information, he could accelerate his perception to ridiculous speeds (like Flash

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), learn any fighting style and copy ways of fighting in seconds (like Taskmaster

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), learn anything better than anyone else (already having the limitation that WW said is his intelligence, so he can't learn medicine or biology, sadly, but that's a limitation he shouldn't have when it comes to his body), but none of this is seen in the MC, or at least not in the way I explained it. Maybe someone else's memory mutation touches on these fields, but the MC's is another area. The MC's path, as I see it, is that of adaptation (a good Doomsday

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, but without the part about dying to adapt and with a good combat IQ).

 

[Zekethor2]

Attack on Titan.....yes, Ive seen Attack on Titan, I used to be obsessed with Attack on Titan! It hijacked my mind for 4-5 years straight. It was such a good story. The irony is, despite being such a huge fan, I never sat down and watched the anime from start to finish, for various reasons, relying mostly on countless youtube videos, comments, clips, research videos, theories, etc etc. I only ever followed the manga from I guess chapter 100/105 to 139. Its pretty embarrassing to say the least. Coming back to what you said, I think I disagree. My complaint is the opposite, that Isayama left alot of the stuff unexplained and open to interpretation, like what the Origin of all life and matter was supposed to be, what the cabin vision Mikasa remembered was all about. Was it an alternate timeline? Why was it so confusing compared to the Armin one? Why did Eren turn into a fucking bird? But all in all every major lore reveal was done perfectly in my opinion. The reveal that Eren was the one who ate Grisha, the reveal about what exists outside the walls, the reveal that Eren is the one who 'motivated' Grisha to get the Founding Titan, all of it had proper build up, hype, structure. I think everything fits together perfectly. I guess you're talking about the few seconds of information cards that show up in the anime? If so I never watched the anime so you may be right. When I read 139 back in 2021, unsurprisingly, I was kinda disappointed (And depressed, in...I guess a bittersweet way), for reasons every aot fan is aware of. But honestly after watching the anime ending pretty recently back in may this year, I can say the ending was really really good. I never expected Mappa to handle it so very well, and the changes Isayama implemented really fixed a few flaws the ending had. I know people are gonna shit on me for saying this because of how polarizing this ending is still.

I never watched the dragon ball anime to comment on it. Ofcourse I researched on it in my own way, like I did Attack on Titan, but since Dragon ball is so vast you have to actually sit down and watch the anime to understand how the DB fans feel.

Also, I have faith that Weirdworld will deliver. The outer twins, cosmology, plot, MC, love interests, power scaling, characters, gods, all of it will be tied up nicely in the end. Some fans are already saying that the previous few arcs, like the dream world arc, monster world arc, have disappointed. I honestly dont feel that way so I guess Im the fool who will fail to realize in the future whenever WW delivers a disappointing update, cause...I dont know what they call it...I lack the artistic sense.

Interesting. I won’t comment on Attack on Titan since that’s off-topic, but thinking more carefully about WW’s approach, I don’t think it really follows Lovecraft’s line of entities being completely alien and incomprehensible. For example, the Chosen and the Apostles’ spawns have often manifested parts of their masters’ intentions, almost as if they could actually understand them. The MC literally heard the voice of the Seventh. Ella seems able to genuinely have a dialogue with the Third and Fourth.


So, if you think about it, the Apostles aren’t truly incomprehensible. It looks like they have goals that could be measured and understood, if only we had access to them. And if the Apostles are that way, I believe the Arbiters follow the same baseline. And why wouldn’t the so-called invading “enemies” from outside the universe follow that same baseline too? Maybe they do, maybe they don’t.


So, on one hand, the idea of beings so vast that they become incomprehensible is good, but in my view, that’s not exactly the approach WW is taking.

 

[Er Pisha Jimeno]

Hey, on the topic of Authority-Memory mind control, I think Authority is more suited for this one, Memory seems more like a gaslighting tool rather than control.
"Oh, I broke a lamp? What lamp? I don't remember any lamp, what are you talking about? Oh, you mean the one YOU broke right? Yeah, don't worry about it tomorrow all of this will be forgotten. Btw, you weren't going to buy me icecream?
"... *Shrugs*"

 

[KingAgamemnon]

In regards to him saying he could probably beat us now...

 

[Er Pisha Jimeno]

View attachment 5258666

In regards to him saying he could probably beat us now...

Oh, right, how did he get the third? Didn't he get the second by overusing his powers with Deryl?
(Also lol)

 

[Grimnir098]

But that's not what happened with Jake and authority, Jake is still considered a dangerous power house for his level, even by Ella, he was just unfortunate enough to go up against the MC who had a level of resistance thanks to Memory and Deryl whose power gave him oddly specific plot armor.

People misusing the term "plot armour" is my pet peeve.
That was not plot armour, it was pretty well-explained why Jake's commands were ineffective on Deryl.

 

[Big_I_Guy]

Steel obviously doesn't naturally form in the body, but isn't it possible to make steel just be removing the impurities from iron?

Steel is not naturally occurring. It's an alloy like bronze, in the case of steel it's made up of iron and carbon.

Ella forces the MC to form steel claws during a training session to teach him how to alter things around him. This is before the poker game at the casino.

 

[Dinoflaggelate]

Oh, right, how did he get the third? Didn't he get the second by overusing his powers with Deryl?
(Also lol)

If I remember right it was commanding Mia to forget seeing him use his powers on Deryl that pushed him to level 2. Trying to do that with Authority instead of Memory was enough of a strain that it triggered an evolution. Which then caused him to screw up doing it from the unexpected power spike, thus Mia's brain getting fried.

As for level 3, that was overusing his powers during the missions he's been sent on during the invasion. So it's only kind of unearned. Out of universe it can feel that way, since it all happened off-screen. In universe, he did earn it by being in the thick of some really nasty combat.

I hope we do get the chance to put his powers to the challenge. We've got a major villain with the same abilities as Jake. It would make sense to have some training scene variations based on if Jake survives, where the MC tests his mental defenses against him instead of developing them on his own.

 

[Grimnir098]

Steel is not naturally occurring. It's an alloy like bronze, in the case of steel it's made up of iron and carbon.

Ella forces the MC to form steel claws during a training session to teach him how to alter things around him. This is before the poker game at the casino.

Both iron and carbon are present in the human body, so it makes sense that he would be able to shapeshift into steel by removing the impurities in the iron and combining it with carbon.