Ren'Py The Bite: Revenant [v0.9302] [madmate.games]

[JoeTheMC84]

Using a straw man logical fallacy tactics is a very shameful act for an educator... unless you were using it to win an argument with an angry wife. That I could understand.

 

[UncleFredo]

Using a straw man logical fallacy tactics is a very shameful act for an educator... unless you were using it to win an argument with an angry wife. That I could understand.

Thank God I'd swallowed my coffee, because I fucking hate cleaning the cream out of my keyboard.
You could spoiler that fragment to give a guy a bit of warning... Just saying

 

[UncleFredo]

So I had intended to decouple from this discussion. But I had an itch in the back of my mind that I'd missed a key part of the argument, and that was the reason that my point wasn't getting through, and I found I couldn't leave it alone.

So:
The central issue here is a lack of player agency that stretches all the way back to picking up Emilia at the airport. From that point forward the player had no possibility to avoid the scene in question. Absolutely none.
He wasn't offered the opportunity to learn why he was commanded to meet the Duke where he might have found out about Emilia's involvement.
He wasn't given the ability to consider that Emilia might have an agenda and be waiting for him when he left the Duke.
He wasn't offered a choice about going to the courtyard.
He wasn't offered the choice to prepare himself to encounter her.
He wasn't offered a choice about trying to lie to her when she first grabbed him.

He was in fact offered up with no choice other than to either be killed or progress the writer's preferred storyline. This is why the "choice" that was offered sits badly with many people. It wasn't a valid choice because only one branch advances the story the writer wishes to tell, and that is not a real choice.

Just as the MC wasn't offered any of the choices I mentioned, he should not have been offered the choice to fight. The writer would have been better served to simply have the MC tell Emilia the truth in the same way he had the MC attempt to lie. Lazy writing.

Two more things:
All this discussion about how the MC by definition has no chance against Emilia completely ignores the fact that he has something, whether or not he understands it, that flattened her, on the way from the airport, while she was enraged. So stats, power levels, age aside, the writer has introduce a wild card (which he may be trying to restrain) and NONE of the common tropes about vampires might apply to this ability.

Lastly. I am NOT complaining about this VN. I am attempting to provide feedback for the writer's consideration about how he might improve his handling of the story he intends to tell. I said it before and I meant it. It is his story to tell and I support his right to tell it as he chooses 100%. Period. I very much enjoy this VN and I hope it becomes amazingly successful. Otherwise I wouldn't bother to offer feedback.

 

[JJJ84]

This whole "Oh.... the choice wasn't given for the player." scenario feels like a deja vu for what I've seen in couple of instances in other games;

For example, in Ataegina, there have been couple of instances the player has to make a specific choice between 2 alternatives in order to advance the story, and making the wrong choice ends up in the game ending (either with bad ends [MC dying or fate far worse] or an okay end [Elite Mage ending], but still game over).

So not like it's a mechanic used by this game only (several others other than Ataegina uses it as well, as FunFuntomes listed in one of the previous replies), so I guess I'm not as upset about this as some other people are (shrugs).

 

[UniqueUserName1!]

Great game so far, impressed with the quality of the writing. Will sub for a while.

 

[Darkmetal]

I was especially disappointed when I lured the redhead to the backalley by picking a dark option only to get disappointed by a boring biting scene, that could've been a little bit hotter seeing how big the risk the player takes to get her there

I planned to eventually explain how MC doesn't find that kind of use of his powers or stature appealing, but I think I may have to somehow shoehorn it to be earlier in the game.

Well, I guess this means that a harem of sex thralls is off the table then. Dang it, there goes my Plan A for the yoga students down the bin!

On a more serious note, hardcoding the MC's morality instead of making it a player choice seems a bit "iffy" to me. There are certain genres, IMO, where a full dark play through option is almost a must - Mafia/Gangster games (imagine GTA where you can only be a good guy) or a Star Wars RPG where you can't go darkside/Sith - and a vampire game is certainly one of them. It also caps potential character arcs. e.g. If Emilia becomes a LI and the MC can only be "goodish," this forces a redemption arc on Emilia (boriiiiing), whereas, IMO, going full on debauched Bonnie and Clyde with her would be a hella lot more fun.

Having said that, this is the Dev's story and he should write only what he wants to write in the way he wants to write it. The key word being want though (as opposed to wariness of rules) .............but you know, madmate.games , that Patreon goal you wrote as a joke (using the money on hookers and blow) rather than a boring extra render station or some such is in actuality not a bad idea at all. Honest. Totally not trying to lure you to the dark side or anything.

 

[Antonie van Leeuwenhoek]

But also, it's assumed they can even have babies with humans.

+1 King

 

[FunFuntomes]

He wasn't offered the opportunity to learn why he was commanded to meet the Duke where he might have found out about Emilia's involvement.
He wasn't given the ability to consider that Emilia might have an agenda and be waiting for him when he left the Duke.
He wasn't offered a choice about going to the courtyard.
He wasn't offered the choice to prepare himself to encounter her.
He wasn't offered a choice about trying to lie to her when she first grabbed him.

he wasn't offered the chance to stay home instead of going to the bar
he wasn't offered the chance to not go to work
he wasn't offered the chance to not get stabbed
he wasn't offered the chance to refuse being turned....

I'm surprised you stuck with the game for so long when it gives you no agency...

ignores the fact that he has something, whether or not he understands it, that flattened her, on the way from the airport, while she was enraged

that wasn't ignored. It's precisely why Emilia was ready to kill MC, if he even twitched, because she knew he had that something.

 

[bosp]

So I had intended to decouple from this discussion. But I had an itch in the back of my mind that I'd missed a key part of the argument, and that was the reason that my point wasn't getting through, and I found I couldn't leave it alone.

So:
The central issue here is a lack of player agency that stretches all the way back to picking up Emilia at the airport. From that point forward the player had no possibility to avoid the scene in question. Absolutely none.
He wasn't offered the opportunity to learn why he was commanded to meet the Duke where he might have found out about Emilia's involvement.
He wasn't given the ability to consider that Emilia might have an agenda and be waiting for him when he left the Duke.
He wasn't offered a choice about going to the courtyard.
He wasn't offered the choice to prepare himself to encounter her.
He wasn't offered a choice about trying to lie to her when she first grabbed him.

He was in fact offered up with no choice other than to either be killed or progress the writer's preferred storyline. This is why the "choice" that was offered sits badly with many people. It wasn't a valid choice because only one branch advances the story the writer wishes to tell, and that is not a real choice.

Just as the MC wasn't offered any of the choices I mentioned, he should not have been offered the choice to fight. The writer would have been better served to simply have the MC tell Emilia the truth in the same way he had the MC attempt to lie. Lazy writing.

Two more things:
All this discussion about how the MC by definition has no chance against Emilia completely ignores the fact that he has something, whether or not he understands it, that flattened her, on the way from the airport, while she was enraged. So stats, power levels, age aside, the writer has introduce a wild card (which he may be trying to restrain) and NONE of the common tropes about vampires might apply to this ability.

Lastly. I am NOT complaining about this VN. I am attempting to provide feedback for the writer's consideration about how he might improve his handling of the story he intends to tell. I said it before and I meant it. It is his story to tell and I support his right to tell it as he chooses 100%. Period. I very much enjoy this VN and I hope it becomes amazingly successful. Otherwise I wouldn't bother to offer feedback.

I sincerely think you should give it a rest, maybe take the way out as I did?

You can fight some battles but others... you just have to forfeit.

Fighting against the hordes of mindless VTM and vampire romance paperback fans is futile.
They are prepared to use any means necessary to fiercely defend anything vamp-related, no matter how silly it gets.
This is a battle you just cannot win.

 

[TiffanyMonroe]

he wasn't offered the chance to stay home instead of going to the bar
he wasn't offered the chance to not go to work
he wasn't offered the chance to not get stabbed
he wasn't offered the chance to refuse being turned....

I'm surprised you stuck with the game for so long when it gives you no agency...

that wasn't ignored. It's precisely why Emilia was ready to kill MC, if he even twitched, because she knew he had that something.

Same reason I kept playing even though sandbox/freeroam gives me cancer. We love vampires but how much railroading do you want me to suffer through? Seems cruel to treat me like this.

 

[Drafox]

Preview of the next events:

 

[RandyPhoenix]

Preview of the next events:

View attachment 1796264
View attachment 1796272

 

[RandyPhoenix]

Can you send me this as a gif? I tried save but it wasn't succesfull

 

[frogbert]

I'm a little surprised people are so worked up about the Emilia scene. After having the MC defeat her so easily the first time, it was actually pretty much necessary to the story to humble us a bit and remind the player that you're actually not the king of shit mountain yet. Some people get mad when they have setbacks in their power fantasy games I guess.

Anyway moving on, I'm pretty sure that the whole scene with the Duke and Emilia was staged to convince the MC to cooperate with them. Emilia, the Duke and Carver were playing an elaborate game of good cop/bad cop. Duke Moghila invites us in, practically starts kissing our ass and we're supposed to believe he's doing it only because his daughter praised our "punctuality and maturity"? But that's not all: "She was especially fond of the entertainment you provided"!

Then he explains how he's going to "assist" us: he's going to "arrange compensation for all the suffering you've experienced!" All you need to do is "help me implement better laws, and appoint better judges!"

But how in the world is a fledgling--even an entertaining, punctual and mature one--going to help appoint better judges? Easy, it's because Emilia told him everything and he figured out your power. And now he wants to use you as a weapon, just like Zoey said would happen.

 

[bosp]

I'm a little surprised people are so worked up about the Emilia scene. After having the MC defeat her so easily the first time, it was actually pretty much necessary to the story to humble us a bit and remind the player that you're actually not the king of shit mountain yet. Some people get mad when they have setbacks in their power fantasy games I guess.

Anyway moving on, I'm pretty sure that the whole scene with the Duke and Emilia was staged to convince the MC to cooperate with them. Emilia, the Duke and Carver were playing an elaborate game of good cop/bad cop. Duke Moghila invites us in, practically starts kissing our ass and we're supposed to believe he's doing it only because his daughter praised our "punctuality and maturity"? But that's not all: "She was especially fond of the entertainment you provided"!

Then he explains how he's going to "assist" us: he's going to "arrange compensation for all the suffering you've experienced!" All you need to do is "help me implement better laws, and appoint better judges!"

But how in the world is a fledgling--even an entertaining, punctual and mature one--going to help appoint better judges? Easy, it's because Emilia told him everything and he figured out your power. And now he wants to use you as a weapon, just like Zoey said would happen.

There is just a tiny miny detail you forgot to take into account when talking about your theory... MC needs to stay UNDEAD for it to happen.
For your theory to be plausible, Emilia cannot under any circumstances GAME OVER the MC.

Meh, as I said before to Uncle Fredo - VTM and vampire romance paperback fans are a crazy lot.

Oh, and yeah, I could humble and humiliate someone with a few slaps or kick in the nuts, no need to game over him (I am awesome like that ).

OK, time for me to butt out of this thread for good now. Ta ta.

 

[cxx]

Preview of the next events:

haha (NOT).

 

[cxx]

nice update except bit short, plot advanced bit and mc got new "friend" and that "friendship" might not end well.

scrshots:

1. everything she owns must be in that backpack, 2. - 5. yea mc has "cramp", 6. - 9. yea she wanted mc to visit (why is seen later), 10. - 15. yadda yadda yadda, 16.- 19. ofc she was happy (again why see later), 20. - 24. now it is revealed why she wanted to meet mc again, 25. - 26. yea you and same thing with mc, 27. bullshit but safe answer.

 

[Valamyr]

I liked this VN; its largely similar to *Rebirth* which is also excellent for those who like Vampire stories.

This one is still rather early in development, but I can tell it's promising!

 

[CrazyRabbit]

That game is great ; got plenty of Vampire The Masquerade vibes. Plenty of choices and morality dilemmas.
I just wish I could cheat my stats like with any other sandbox but oh well.

Kudos to the dev, I got bitten

 

[Nulldev]

I've said this before but in case you never saw my comment

in my opinion this is 100 times better than Rebirth

1 you're not forced to brainwash women into sleeping with you

2 you're not forced to turn innocent people into blood dolls

3 and in the last update I played you're not forced to take a smart young girl and turned her into a fucking child mentally

Not yet!