Ren'Py The DeLuca Family [Season 1] [HopesGaming]

[anne O'nymous]

[note: I didn't slept yet and it's already 9AM, so my English will be bad, sorry]

@HopesGaming , great update as expected. Here's my thoughts (hadn't read every single comments, sorry if I repeat something) :

1) There's a Guard 2 mission, I know it since I see Guard 1 and Guard 3...
It seem that you changed few things here. Now the missions appear when MC stats offer him some chances, it's that ? So, did I missed something for Guard 2, or have you made a typo that prevent it to appear ?

2) During missions, for Combat 1 and Guard 1 the xp is caped the place they were in the previous update, but Stealth 2 isn't caped.
I haven't looked at the code, but well, I'll talk about it in the next point.

3) The first promotion event should probably be directly linked to "Luna's Knife Knife" quest.
For me, it's a question of feeling. Luna jumping to hug the MC because he was promoted don't do it before the said quest is finished ; she's not enough at ease with hugs before this.
So, here come my proposal... I know that it's not something trivial, so as usual it's just a proposal.
Change the way you cap the xp. Something like :

def isXPCaped():
  if rank == X and not "Luna's Knife Knife" is finished:
     return True
  elif rank == Y and SOME OTHER CONDITION:
     return True
  else:
     return False

And each time you need to increment the XP, you have :

  if isXPCaped() is True:
     you earned X xp
  else:
     You need to progress a little more with the side quest before earning more xp

This will help with the immersion feeling (Luna will not jump to hugs the MC before she's effectively ready to do it) and in the same time solve the issue in point 2, since all the "is the xp caped" test are done inside the same functions.
It will also slow down the ranking progress, which isn't a bad thing. Actually you can't go really high, but without this "it's caped because of this quest not finished" thing, the day you'll release the final version, a player can go full ranking before even playing the side quests... And, no, it don't do it.


And finally some concern regarding the promotion event. I loved it, but when the thugs appear, I don't know, it break something. Suddenly the MC going alone to find the box, then Luna buying an ice cream feel like an excuse.
It would be probably better is you add few dialogs lines just before. Something like [with better texts obviously]:

Luna: [...] it remind me [...] I go buy an ice cream
MC: Why not, I come with you
Luna: No, mister "I want to earn my package" !
Luna: You wanted to find it alone, well, I want to buy my Ice cream alone !
MC thoughts: Does it even make sense ?

For me, it have two advantages. Firstly, the player now remember the arguments between them, more than the fact she goes buy an ice cream without really giving a reason for it. So, it feel less like an excuse to let the MC alone with the thugs.
Secondly, it show that Luna feel a little hurt by the fact that the MC... well, he rejected her in the end ; at least that's how she felt it.

And also, don't remember if you did it so sorry if you did, but since she have a gun, and an ice cream, there's something "more Luna" to do during the shooting scene : The first shoot, she look at the guy. But after that, she just eat her ice cream and shoot without even looking.
For me, it feel like this : First shoot, the guy talked bad about the family, it's a question of honor, she'll look him right in the eyes. But after that, she just shoot because he is an idiot and she is Luna. She don't care anymore about him, the ice cream is way more interesting, and she's well trained enough to not have to really look where she shoot.

 

[HopesGaming]

@anne O'nymous
1. The guard three was supposed to be two. Was a typo. The way it works with the stats - once a stat is high enough the contract turns green which turns it into a 100% success rate. Also, some of them only show up after the promotion have been done.

2. Hmm, I looked back at the code and the game but it looks fine from my side?

3. Actually, there is two outcome with meeting Luna outside the promotion. No hugs and different dialogue if the affection is not high enough.
The flag is affection as to gain the needed affection you need to have done the hug part. However, I may change it so the flag is actually the hug itself.

The xpCap code seems interesting. Will see how I can use that in some way or another.
Problem with using completed quest for something like that is compatibility issues. Right now the quest log removes all completed quest. So it won't register in future releases. So have to add flags to those manually.

I like the idea with some extra dialogue before the thugs appear.
Thanks for the great feedback as always, anne O'nymous.

 

[anne O'nymous]

2. Hmm, I looked back at the code and the game but it looks fine from my side?

I'll try to find the time to look at it and understand why I had the feeling that something was wrong. This said, I can be wrong.

3. Actually, there is two outcome with meeting Luna outside the promotion. No hugs and different dialogue if the affection is not high enough.
The flag is affection as to gain the needed affection you need to have done the hug part. However, I may change it so the flag is actually the hug itself.

It would probably be better yes. When I played the promotion event the first time, I loaded my last save once I saw Luna jump to hug me. I haven't done the knife quest at this time and, as I said, it doesn't felt good that she hug me.
Anyway limiting thing like this by the quest, or having the quest as part of the condition, is always a better option than doing it by the affection level itself. Some players can have done it perfectly, some other can have made some mistake, and the more they'll progress in the game, the more the gap will increase. So when, at the early stage of the game, you have something like :

if 7 < pl.lu < 10: yes you can do it

When the game is near to its end, it can become something like :

if 30 < pl.lu < 60: yes you can do it

And it's obviously a really high gap. And while an average player can be more near the lower limit when he finish the quest 15, another can be near the above limit while still being at the quest 10, just because he did it perfectly.
So, if you add a "done the quest X" to the condition, you ensure that the context is correct for the action.

And for the fact that the finished quest will vanish, I propose a "luna_quest_level" integer (and obviously "isabel_quest_level", and so on). Just increment it each time the player finish one of the Luna's quest. You can probably make it automatic inside the code that gave the "completed" state to the quest, so you'll even don't have to care about it.
As long as you can't do a Luna's quest before having finished the previous one, it will tell you precisely if "this" quest have been finished or not.
So, for the promotion event it would give something like this :

if luna_quest_level >= 3 and pl.lu >= 8: she jump to hug you

Which read as : If Luna is enough at ease with hugs and like you enough, she'll hug you. Else she'll not do it, whatever it's because she don't like you enough or because she isn't enough at ease with hugs.

Still I think that limiting the ranking is needed. Like I said, else a time will come when the player will be ranked at the same level that Wilfred (what ? I can dream ) while still having to play the punishment scene (No Gracie, it still wasn't a mission) and in fact the whole story.

Problem with using completed quest for something like that is compatibility issues. Right now the quest log removes all completed quest. So it won't register in future releases. So have to add flags to those manually.

I talked about the "luna_quest_level" above, and for the ranking cap, you can use a "max_xp" integer instead of flags ; in fact it will even make the code easier to write since you'll only have one line :

def isXPCaped():
  return xp >= max_xp

I think it's still a good idea to keep it in a function even for something as simple, because it offer you the possibility to easily add more things limiting the XP earning in the future. By example the "max_xp", but also a flag because "this" must absolutely be done before the next rank, whatever can say the other limitations.
You just have to change what is in this function, without having to care of the rest of your code. And you just change the value of "max_xp" when the quest/event/whatever that actually impose the limit is done.

Note that I changed my mind, limiting by xp is probably better than doing it by rank.
I assume that, the higher is your rank, the more xp you'll have to earn for the next rank. So, a limit by rank mean that the player will have to do many missions once the limiting quest/event/whatever is done. At the opposite, if you do something like :

max_xp = xp_of_the_next_rank - ( max_xp_gave_by_more_rewarding_mission_available * 2)

The player will just have to do few missions before his promotion. This will make the game more dynamic ; the player finally finished the limiting quest, and if he do it right, the next day he can have his promotion.
You can even use :

max_xp = xp_of_the_next_rank - 1

To stop it right before the promotion, but I don't like it. Having at least two missions to do make it a little less obvious that "this" quest/event was what you needed to do.

Thanks for the great feedback as always, anne O'nymous.

No, thanks to you for your great game.

 

[Gandalf78]

All I can say is that this Game really makes a Lot of Fun. Go On with your Good Work and I hope their will be a V0.3 as soon as Possible ;-)

 

[retnavgunner]

It would probably be better yes. When I played the promotion event the first time, I loaded my last save once I saw Luna jump to hug me. I haven't done the knife quest at this time and, as I said, it doesn't felt good that she hug me.
Anyway limiting thing like this by the quest, or having the quest as part of the condition, is always a better option than doing it by the affection level itself. Some players can have done it perfectly, some other can have made some mistake, and the more they'll progress in the game, the more the gap will increase. So when, at the early stage of the game, you have something like :

I can understand the reasoning but in this particular instance, flagging the affection makes more sense. There are two quest entities. (1) Gaining the trust and affection of the characters, and (2) The MC's desire and/or need for money and promotion. In situations like this, the beast is how the to work the two together without breaking the story continuity. If the player is more focused on XP, promotion and money and less about earning the trust and affection of the characters, then I can understand why a hug would be bothersome to you. Looking at it from the perspective of the story, wouldn't an XP cap make better sense? Using Luna and her knife quest in relation to the promotion as an example. It would make sense to give the player a message before starting a mission/event to the effect of "Maybe I should see if I can do something for Luna." The player then goes and gets her knife quest, and then can proceed to doing missions, or in this case the promotion event. After the quest is completed, then it makes sense that Luna hugs you. This also solves the problem for those individuals that think the "Punishment" story scene should be changed to reflect that they are some super bad ass mafia boss, when in relation to the story, the MC has only been in the house for approximately a week.
The thing that breaks it for me is two days in the house and MC can suddenly start doing missions when he is still trying to wrap his head around the fact he is living in the house of a mob family. Personally, before I even start doing missions, I should at least have been forced to finish the "Poison" story scene. Now, I as the player have a reason to suck it up, and make the best of my situation, and have a reason to need money, in this case, audio and/or video surveillance equipment. Again, this is just my opinion and my perspective, and looking at it from a different viewpoint.

 

[retnavgunner]

HopesGaming, I must applaud you. I just came across this game a few days ago, and I am beyond impressed. Up until now, I could count on one hand and have four fingers left over, the number of games that has attracted my attention that I have thoroughly enjoyed because of the story and writing. I now have three fingers left. The story, the characters that are different with their own unique personalities, is beyond awesome. Personality wise, Luna is my girl. You have done an outstanding job with writing her. As for character choice overall, I have to lean towards Isabel. Aside from the fact she is flirty, I get the feeling there is something darker, or a deeper sadness/desire hiding underneath the flirting persona that goes far beyond her initial "sad story." It is that thought process that pulls me, as a player, towards her, and could care less about the danger involved of getting to close.
I have read the complaints about the writing, but with English as your third language, I am impressed. I have played games written by those whose primary language is English, and the grammar is beyond atrocious. With that said, I have two things I will point out, that you may or may not be aware of. (1) When the MC is talking to Wilfred in regards to his ability to smell the wine, Wilfred responds "My apologize," in reference to him thinking the MC was insulting him. Maybe "I apologize", or "My apologies" would be the response. (2) Isabel's bio, in her 'likes' it says vine. Shouldn't that be 'wine'?
I must also say, it is a nice change to see an MC that doesn't look like Hannibal Lecter when he smiles because he sees a pretty girl. Rest assured, once I am back on my feet, I will most definitely make a contribution via Patreon, and I most definitely place this game at the top of my list.

 

[Le Taz]

Mod has been updated. More smooth and prompting leveling up automatically ( Thx @HopesGaming for the tip)

 

[anne O'nymous]

If the player is more focused on XP, promotion and money and less about earning the trust and affection of the characters, then I can understand why a hug would be bothersome to you.

You misunderstood me. It wasn't bothersome, it was out of context ; or if you prefer out of order. If you do :

• Gracie's gunned down jeans
• Promotion 1
• Luna's Knife Knife

Luna reaction will be :

• Er, a hug ? You are crazier than me but, well alright, if you insist I can do this for once.
• You've been promoted, I'll jump to hug you.
• Seriously, still a hug ? Will you ask for this every time ? Can't you find something less embarrassing ?

And just, no. It feel wrong because, whatever how happy she is in the instant, she can't hug you by herself, then return to her old reluctance to hugs. She need to overcome her reluctance before being able to jumping hug you.
Below, you talked about giving a message to the player, but here the message would fall flat ; contrary to what the promotion event would have shown, Luna will not yet be ready to hug you in "Luna's Knife Knife" quest.

Personally, before I even start doing missions, I should at least have been forced to finish the "Poison" story scene.

This is also an issue but, from my point of view, less important.
The player can choose to jump to doing mission with the hope that the family will be pleased and let him go faster or, in the opposite, find that he suck at them and release him. None will happen, but it make sense in regard of the story. Especially since the MC already have some background with the shadow. We don't know much about it yet, except that his childhood friend clearly know who the DeLuca are, how dangerous they can be, and that the father of the said friend have taught to the MC how to move (who said "run" ?) in the shadow.
And, while agreeing that the first dinner scene should happen at the start or at least quickly, it still make sense if it happen after few days and some missions. The delay will then be perceived as an insurance. Cordia want him at the family table, and so let him stay at the main house, but first she'll wait to see if he try to integrate himself into the family business. It change nothing even from the perspective of the DeLuca employees, the MC still live in the main house and will still end being allowed at the main table. Whatever if it happen the first day or after some days, it's something that never happened before and will probably never happen again.

 

[HopesGaming]

Thanks for the nice comment guys and awesome Taz!

I've read everything you guys have suggested and will see how it can be of use.

I probably make promotion locked till story section 3 is done.
Changing the first gun to a melee weapon so it makes more sense lore-wise.
Only soldatos and up should be allowed to get the guns.

 

[retnavgunner]

You misunderstood me. It wasn't bothersome, it was out of context ; or if you prefer out of order. If you do :

• Gracie's gunned down jeans
• Promotion 1
• Luna's Knife Knife

Luna reaction will be :

• Er, a hug ? You are crazier than me but, well alright, if you insist I can do this for once.
• You've been promoted, I'll jump to hug you.
• Seriously, still a hug ? Will you ask for this every time ? Can't you find something less embarrassing ?

And just, no. It feel wrong because, whatever how happy she is in the instant, she can't hug you by herself, then return to her old reluctance to hugs. She need to overcome her reluctance before being able to jumping hug you.
Below, you talked about giving a message to the player, but here the message would fall flat ; contrary to what the promotion event would have shown, Luna will not yet be ready to hug you in "Luna's Knife Knife" quest.

My apologies for using the word bothersome. To me it is bothersome if it feels wrong, and not bothersome if it is out of context. With that aside, again from your perspective, or view point, then yes, you are correct and it is out of context. I personally did knife knife before Promotion 1, thus, again, from my perspective, she is comfortable giving a hug, because, she 'wants' another hug. I looked at it from the stand point of pleasing the individuals instead of the family as a whole, and thus, that is how 'I' as the player, played it. We are different people that see things a different way. This does not in any way suggest that one opinion is right and another is wrong. In the end, it is the developer's decision, and the decision should be made based on looking at the whole picture from different sides. Some may play one way, others a different way, but it doesn't mean one way is right another is wrong. It all comes down to player choice. Now that I have said that, I will just say have a good day/evening as I have said what I wanted to say and will not hijack this thread to dispute what comes down to personal choice.

 

[retnavgunner]

Just finished my 5th play through (yes I am strange), only because I wanted to explore all scenes with Isabel. That and the fact that it never dawned on me to do her intro scene from her bedroom. Ironic that my character is willing to flirt with death just to get close with her, and is scared to death of crossing Luna (that is how well written she is.) Hell, I would rather take on an entire family single handed than risk one wrong move with Luna. That girl gives new meaning to dangerous. I am reminded of a scene from Basic Instinct. When it comes to finally going all the way with Luna, I best make sure she does not have her knife nearby else I have no need to worry about how to escape the the contract.

 

[Johnny-Doe]

Just finished my 5th play through (yes I am strange), only because I wanted to explore all scenes with Isabel. That and the fact that it never dawned on me to do her intro scene from her bedroom. Ironic that my player is willing to flirt with death just to get close with her, and is scared to death of crossing Luna (that is how well written she is.) Hell, I would rather take on an entire family single handed than risk one wrong move with Luna. That girl gives new meaning to dangerous. I am reminded of a scene from Basic Instinct. When it comes to finally going all the way with Luna, I best make sure she does not have her knife nearby else I have no need to worry about how to escape the the contract.

I think most people have the wrong idea about Luna,if you want my honest opinion i believe that she is even more gentle than Gracie,she just grew up to be an assassin and she doesnt know right from wrong plus theres this thing about "The Mysterious Six"she might have been traumatized deeply from that.

 

[retnavgunner]

I think most people have the wrong idea about Luna,if you want my honest opinion i believe that she is even more gentle than Gracie,she just grew up to be an assassin and she doesnt know right from wrong plus theres this thing about "The Mysterious Six"she might have been traumatized deeply from that.

I do agree with you 100%. Looking at her from the perspective of what little I know about her, and this goes back to how well written she is, she is scary. Going beyond that scope, she is definitely traumatized, and underneath that is a girl that just wants to be loved and close to someone. That is one of the reasons I enjoy this game as much as I do. Story and character wise, it is off the charts. She is by-far my favorite character because of her funny slash assassin personality. She could be beating you into the ground yet her humorous lines would have you laughing in the process. I am just relating to her character at this point in the story and not looking beyond, or shall I say her deeper emotional state. Gracie is another nut to crack entirely, she just does not quite bring out an emotional response from me as a player that Luna and Isabel does though, but she does crack me up, and I look forward to the challenge of cracking that nut, no pun intended.

 

[Gandalf78]

Hey Hopes can you tell Us when Version 0.3 comes out? Plz

 

[HopesGaming]

Also, I forgot but thank you all for taking the time to review the game in the review section too!

Hey Hopes can you tell Us when Version 0.3 comes out? Plz

Well, the 0.02 just got released. So there is no clear eta sadly. But as always, I work hard to get it out in a good time.

 

[Master of Puppets]

I probably make promotion locked till story section 3 is done.
Changing the first gun to a melee weapon so it makes more sense lore-wise.
Only soldatos and up should be allowed to get the guns.

That would be simpler than adding alternative scenes, which would require at least a couple of renders and a bunch of writing. It also deals with the MC saying Trino outranks him, which would make no sense if you could get promotions before that scene. It would of course be nice for the free-roaming progress to not be dependent on the story, but it would be more work. At least we can look forward to the point that the MC won't be such a useless bum anymore.

 

[DonStark]

Hi, how can we have the foot massage with Izabel i can't find it ... And how is possible to have different bathroom scene because for me it's always the same ...

 

[HopesGaming]

Hi, how can we have the foot massage with Izabel i can't find it ... And how is possible to have different bathroom scene because for me it's always the same ...

There are three different versions of Isabel intro. Remember Isabel haven't met you yet while she is alone. But she is in 3 different places. Living room day and night and in her room evening. So it'd be weird if you talk to her at night for the first time and then the introduction begins when you talk to her in the day. So I made three different versions with three different scenes. And she has a preferred time of the day you meet her for the first time.

The bathroom scenes are depended on the stealth stat.

 

[dav3knight]

cant wait for the tournament mafia concept with rare item and etc hehehe good work bro HopesGaming ... and of course continuation of the story ... ... many good and interesting potential this game i love it

 

[beyreli]

Can anyone upload a save with sound recordings please?