Ren'Py The Headmaster [v0.16.3] [Altos and Herdone]

[madchef]

I think we have very different interpretations. Yours comes from believing everything was created as intended...

While you may be right that there are some plotholes in the game at the moment, I think that it's not a coincidence that the MC comes out as a 'master manipulator' in front of women, or should we say very young girls, while he's got nothing on Wilson, Jimmy, Mykok and any other male in lurking in the background. What I am trying to say is that this game is an illustrated novel after all, with a few loose pages in places, as to create an illusion of control on player's reader's part, where in fact there's very little freedom of movement. You need to play the part of either a creepy or a creepier male teacher living his wet dream, where immorality is an integral part of that dream. And in order to progress you need to participate in that specific fantasy including peeping Tom escapades to the dorms, like you're some horny college student, not a respectable headmaster, renovating cafeteria, so you can unlock several H-scenes and teaching futsal, so you can unlock more H-scenes and eventually gain access to the girl's changing room. All of which are not really my ideal BDSM scenarios. And his tastes in porn, while tell-tale, are not mine either.

Spoiler

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This is where we can agree on, we are often not given control and must take backseat to some bad tasting MC decisions.

That said, whereas deleting routes would be a narrative tracking/telling nightmare, here there's an easy fix. For barebones implementation, a handful additional lines of dialogue, a camera on/off variable and some "if" checks would suffice.

But why would the devs want to do it, if it sit well with their fantasy of building a sex cult dressed in school uniforms? Or, why would that particular thing bother you so much? VN games are not freestyle simulator games after all where you can build scenarios and participants to fit your personal tastes and dislikes perfectly and there will always be something that one would change if they could. Recording sessions for others to watch is one of two ways of earning money in this game. And let's be honest, this money earned is not there to spend on some noble causes: you need £££ to buy buttplugs, paddles, canes, cat ears, maid uniforms, swimsuits, sexy lingerie, so you can get raunchier and raunchier with your pupils. Or is there a pure path in this game that I haven't discovered yet, where you can play-pretend to be the most chivalrous perv in town?

 

[Sothyr]

Whe should not forget that prices for most objects in games like HM are usually ridiculous high.
A simple butt plug for £250 or the paddle for £500 would cost £10 or if it should be higher quality £20. The prices for any object, even for the erotic magazine, should not be compared with reality. They are only meant to slow down the player of the game.

About the dreams, just because he think in the dream that Ruth is his conscience, does not mean that this is the true meaning why she appears. Dreams never be so easy. Especially not while dreaming it.

 

[madchef]

Whe should not forget that prices for most objects in games like HM are usually ridiculous high.

The in-game prices are not as relevant as the fact that you only need money to pay for H-related stuff. This is not 'Sim-School', so you don't have to worry about electricity bills, food, staff wages or educational equipment, other than punishment implements. Even the cafeteria and swimming pool are there only to unlock H-scenes. It's only natural that in such a pornified world your source of income is porn.

About the dreams, just because he think in the dream that Ruth is his conscience, does not mean that this...

She says she is his conscience, she puts in words some bitter truths about him which himself is unable to express when awake. What else do you need?

 

[Nelix171]

Do I see it correct, that Priti's Desire Path is the same as the Punish Path, just without punishment?

Not really, he's trying to get her to assert her independence. Break away from being the dutiful daughter and become more confident in her own self. She is accepting that when she breaks the rules there will be consequences, but she is showing a great deal of faith in the headmaster for allowing her to become more liberated.

 

[Sothyr]

he's trying to get her to assert her independence. Break away from being the dutiful daughter and become more confident in her own self. She is accepting that when she breaks the rules there will be consequences, but she is showing a great deal of faith in the headmaster for allowing her to become more liberated.

Yes, but exaclty this happens also in the punishment path. And there is no option to change the decision in the cheat menu to replay the scenes.

 

[Living In A Lewd World]

Yes, but exaclty this happens also in the punishment path. And there is no option to change the decision in the cheat menu to replay the scenes.

As far, as I know, the paths are nearly the same. In the non-punishment path, there is one scene less to be unlocked in the replay menu, in which, I think Priti releases her tie, insults the headmaster and and can get punished for that.. I don`t know whether you can replay Priti`s punishment scenes, if you are not on that path. As far, as I remember, Altos said once, the non-punishment path is kind of a concession to people who wouldn`t want to punish such a nice girl.

 

[Tehemai]

While you may be right that there are some plotholes in the game at the moment, I think that it's not a coincidence that the MC comes out as a 'master manipulator' in front of women, or should we say very young girls, while he's got nothing on Wilson, Jimmy, Mykok and any other male in lurking in the background.

Well as stated, we agree on this but we don't agree on the cause. You believe it's intentional, as in he sucks at manipulation. And I believe it's an oversight in that he's not supposed to suck at it, the game simply makes him suck in one facet of it for unnecessary plot convenience. We'll see over time, but if I'm right then it's better to address now. It would fix most plotholes before compounding events make that too difficult.

But why would the devs want to do it, if it sit well with their fantasy of building a sex cult dressed in school uniforms? Or, why would that particular thing bother you so much?

Well beyond making the plot make a lot more sense? And that Mykock already explained it to be a game feature which is mysteriously absent when actually playing? Being forced to perform to satisfy the sexual urges of old men is degrading and not exactly for everyone. Certainly not popular among dom fans who usually like to be the ones in control.

I understand VNs are not free style, but here you have a simple solution that would fix a lot of issues for little integration effort. And what effort is needed comes in the form of improvements that are beneficial regardless of playstyle. Who wouldn't want game progress acknowledgement in the form of raises? Who wouldn't want fundraising events like weekend bake sales? Attempted bribery scenarios? More types of confiscations? Charging for lessons to other teachers? Classic lost wallet dilemmas? Return on investments for building upgrades or routes?

I suspect most of this will end up in the final game either way if the developer plans to make an immersive game. We have many ways to raise grades. Many ways to raise discipline. Many ways to raise popularity. So why needlessly center income entirely around one revenue stream that the plot already points out should be optional? There's just no reason for it other than that's the current state of the game.

 

[Sothyr]

He does not only manipulate young woman. Also Potts and Newman. And Wilson is not really necessary to manipulate, he is just an easy victim. If I would give him what what he wants, what I only did with Priti's PW.

And I really do not think that he suck for plot decisions. Even a good manipulator can't be prepared for everything. This manipulation works more on long term observations and spying.

As far, as I know, the paths are nearly the same. In the non-punishment path, there is one scene less to be unlocked in the replay menu, in which, I think Priti releases her tie, insults the headmaster and and can get punished for that.. I don`t know whether you can replay Priti`s punishment scenes, if you are not on that path. As far, as I remember, Altos said once, the non-punishment path is kind of a concession to people who wouldn`t want to punish such a nice girl.

The scene in your spoiler is also in the punishment path. So it looks like there no difference, thanks.
I thought already it was just maybe made for people who do not want to punish her, but I was not sure. At least the punishment path was save to play.

 

[Living In A Lewd World]

He does not only manipulate young woman. Also Potts and Newman. And Wilson is not really necessary to manipulate, he is just an easy victim. If I would give him what what he wants, what I only did with Priti's PW.

And I really do not think that he suck for plot decisions. Even a good manipulator can't be prepared for everything. This manipulation works more on long term observations and spying.



The scene in your spoiler is also in the punishment path. So it looks like there no difference, thanks.
I thought already it was just maybe made for people who do not want to punish her, but I was not sure. At least the punishment path was save to play.

I may have expressed that unclear . I meant, this scene can only be unlocked in the punishment path. That is the difference. But it is actually not much. It is mostly something for people who don`t want to punish Priti.

 

[madchef]

He does not only manipulate young woman. Also Potts and Newman.

Still women. Do you see a pattern here?

And Wilson is not really necessary to manipulate, he is just an easy victim.

By what logic is he a victim? Or MC's subordinate? You strike deals with him, not assert your dominance over him in any way. He does not report to the headmaster, just does his own thing and the player needs to please him one way or another to get the influence points necessary to feed his own devices. His influence points from Potts and Newman are ultimately rewarded with sex where the MC is the top to both. His influence on Ruth is signified by sexualized blackmail. Can you point me where he does a similar thing to Wilson?

Again, do you see a pattern here?

You believe it's intentional, as in he sucks at manipulation.

Not as much as he sucks at manipulation, as he is not an alpha male who will challenge other men in order to claim exclusive rights to all the females in the herd. Sorry for using such a blatant ethological metaphor, but still I think this is an intentional twist on the there-can-be-only-one-top-dog trope often seen in other harem games.

We'll see in 10 years time, at the release of ver. 0.968f...

And that Mykock already explained it to be a game feature which is mysteriously absent when actually playing? Being forced to perform to satisfy the sexual urges of old men is degrading and not exactly for everyone. Certainly not popular among dom fans who usually like to be the ones in control.

If you step back and take a meta look, this game's purpose is exactly that: provision of sexual release to old (enough) men by even less than young solicited women - 3D generated phantasms at best. And the player's control is equal or less to that of a strip-club client - you can look but never touch (at least in theory). Dom fans who like to be in control should stop playing video games, for a good start.

I suspect most of this will end up in the final game either way if the developer plans to make an immersive game.

Ren'Py is one of the worst formats for an immersive game. It's basically an event unlocker type of fun, no free-roaming artificial world exploring with your own adventure to experience. I can see these other revenue streams implemented, but this would require some story arc, I don't know. The game's being developed for quite a few years now from what I've noticed and I can't even tell if we're half-way through or only at Chapter 2 out of 12. Or if it's a never-ending story, with paying project supporters voting over new students and stories to be added.

 

[Tehemai]

Not as much as he sucks at manipulation, as he is not an alpha male who will challenge other men in order to claim exclusive rights to all the females in the herd. Sorry for using such a blatant ethological metaphor, but still I think this is an intentional twist on the there-can-be-only-one-top-dog trope often seen in other harem games.

If you step back and take a meta look, this game's purpose is exactly that: provision of sexual release to old (enough) men by even less than young solicited women - 3D generated phantasms at best. And the player's control is equal or less to that of a strip-club client - you can look but never touch (at least in theory).

Oh I really hope not. If the game is really is just a matter of shaping girls just to let others step in then that would blow. If this were all the case though, I think you'd expect more on screen other male interactions. So far the game thankfully focuses almost solely on MC. It seems unlikely to be unintentional given how many scenes there are. It would feel very bait and switch if that changes.

For now he just happens to have an annoying blind spot for money, probably deemed trivial given its largely offscreen nature. Unless they're really going for the looooong build up to "sharing", I think the goal is for him to dominate everyone himself. You can see this with MC even stealing the prostitute from Wilson.

I can see these other revenue streams implemented, but this would require some story arc, I don't know. The game's being developed for quite a few years now from what I've noticed and I can't even tell if we're half-way through or only at Chapter 2 out of 12. Or if it's a never-ending story, with paying project supporters voting over new students and stories to be added.

Not all of it would require substantive story arc. As stated that's really the fullest implementation, and they would be done alongside storylines that would likely be getting added anyway. Most of the stuff (bake sales, confiscations, bribes, wallets) are really just miscellaneous events like patrols. As for raises, which alone could pay for most things, it's not even that. It's just a common sense formula adjustment that MC obviously earned over his predecessor.

(e.g. Current_Salary = Base_salary + 50*policies_passed + 5*grades + 5*discipline)

I would say given the goal is said to be reaching 100 grade and that you're already having sex in chapter 2, I would say ~3-4 chapters is likely. Though I'm new to this game, so I really do not know what the progress speed is like.

 

[Sothyr]

Still women. Do you see a pattern here?

It was about the comment " he MC comes out as a 'master manipulator' in front of women, or should we say very young girls"
Potts and Newman are not young girls anymore.
Newman gave her influence until she was sure he would not do the punishments without her.

There is no male he need to manipulate in the game. Also his 'study' was with woman only. And that is all he want.

Wilson is just a victim, because he need no manipulation, just something to jerk off or to fuck. He gave the influence points without really getting anything. In my playthroughs, I never gave him anything important. Only the illusion that he fucked a prostitute. What an idiot. He is in a game to have the typical horny old man in it. He even look like one. Would not have missed him if the pills would have killed him.

I always gave Ruth the pictures, never tried to blackmail her with them.

I really do not understand why you think he sucks in manipulation. He did already manipulate 9 women, fucked 4 of them, and very likely will fuck all till the end.


About Chapters, so far are 22 named school girls (+ 7 other women), for 6(+2) he needed 2 chapters, but their stories are still in progress. So maybe 10+ more chapters for all the girls. If he does not add more, which looks like he is planning it.

 

[madchef]

It was about the comment " he MC comes out as a 'master manipulator' in front of women, or should we say very young girls"
Potts and Newman are not young girls anymore.

Vast majority of objects of Mc's desire are very young women and this is the game's leitmotiv, let's be honest. Even the two teachers are almost 10 years younger then him. As someone who's been in a relationship in my mid thirties, while she was in her mid twenties, I can assure you, you are a Daddy in such setup, whether you want it or not. Ms Potts especially comes off as a girl, naive, curious and passionate, while with Newman you get to see a bonkers shrinking scene, so she too - a tought cookie ex-military - can be seen as a little girl. Samantha is also treated with a callback from her youth, when her visiting sister tells the Headmaster (without even being asked to) how his PA used to be spanked when she was... a girl. Do you now see a paternalistic pattern and the game's obsession with little girls? All female characters who are more mature (by age or experience) are for some reason restricted to him and the player. A seasoned whore Trixie will simply tell the HM 'no sex babe, you need to try harder'. Ms Chang, age unknown, dismisses his advances just like that. He stands naked with a boner in front of her and she's not impressed. Some master manipulator, huh?

In my playthroughs, I never gave him anything important. Only the illusion that he fucked a prostitute. What an idiot.

That's a bit rich coming from a mere player of a free version of an H-game. What do you get from your playthroughs if not illusions only?

I really do not understand why you think he sucks in manipulation. He did already manipulate 9 women, fucked 4 of them, and very likely will fuck all till the end.

Girls, not women. Make no mistake about that, especially in real life.

 

[Sothyr]

Vast majority of objects of Mc's desire are very young women and this is the game's leitmotiv, let's be honest. Even the two teachers are almost 10 years younger then him. As someone who's been in a relationship in my mid thirties, while she was in her mid twenties, I can assure you, you are a Daddy in such setup, whether you want it or not.

I met lot of acquaintances, even friends and relatives, who had or still have partnerships with an age difference between 10-30 years. Your theory 'that there is someone a daddy (or also mother were the women is older)' in this setup is just wrong. Sure it is possible, but I never met such a pair relationship you described.

Especially pairs who are ~25+ and older you usually see not much differences anymore between them if there is a big age gab. Alternatively even younger if they are already working like adult for a while.

That's a bit rich coming from a mere player of a free version of an H-game. What do you get from your playthroughs if not illusions only?

What has Wilson to do with players of a free version of an H-game? He got nothing from the HM important during my playthroughs. Illusions for the player of H-games have nothing to do with Wilson being an easy to handle idiot.

Girls, not women. Make no mistake about that, especially in real life.

Young women, they are not really girls anymore. They are all adults. In real life I would never treat such a person in such a disrespectful or derogatory manner by still calling them girls (also boy) after reaching their 18th birthday.

 

[Cartageno]

Gotta agree with you both here. I had myself relationships going up to 8 years up and up to 12 years down without them being daddy/daughter or mommy/son. I have seen some which do/did (especially with an older male). It will probably depend on a lot of factors, the two people in question and their personality, their "standing in life" - do they have a job, do they have experience living outside their parents' on their own etc. Even a cultural aspect of how self sustained people are considered once they e. g. finished school may play into it as a kind of self fulfilling prophecy.

However that also means that "young women" often still are kind of girls when it comes to being on their own, finding their own life, even in their mid 20s (and same for "young men" as boys).

As far as the women in this game are concerned, Harriett is the only one of the pupils who shows obvious signs of having an idea. Girls like Rachel, Priti, Faye, Nina are obviously behind in their personal development in this regard, Cass even wants to rely on others. Maxine may go that way but is still too naive, Amy or Liz, maybe (very maybe) Lucy or the twins are the other ones closest to being adult.

Ms Potts certainly has her problems, so she could be the "daughter" to a "daddy" even with somebody her own age, while Ms Chang and Ms Newman would not fill that role so easily the way they are portrayed. Sally in a way seems to like what's happening but I doubt with her as a real opponent it would be plain sailing.

Ruth is the obvious one out. She has found her place in life (as she should at her age) but only by repressing parts of her personality. So she is fragile and can be manipulated, but it would be a completely different mechanic than with any of the others.

 

[Sothyr]

Yes.

I think we got a very limited view on Ms Potts. She had problems with her class, but there a some small hints that she is already mature enough. Taking control at the end of her punishment, reflecting on her shopping habbits, having 5 years teaching experience. Only that it would have been better if they had a normal class during this years, with some bad behaving pupils. Teaching as this school was like jumping in a pool with piranhas...

 

[madchef]

Gotta agree with you both here...

It's clear as day that the game exploits the male senior mentor and junior female protegee(s) trope and it's probably more central to the story than BDSM. With a distinct twist, but still. To add to your characteristics of these supposedly adult women, take note how a lot of them are sexually inexperienced or underexperienced, with repeated fetishization of their surprized reactions when touched by the MC's expert hands. The 'sluttiest' of the girls, Amy still has a lot to learn from Sir.

Is Newman really that grown-up? She's been in the forces and falls for the towel trick like a recruit in IET. And those doe eyes when the headmaster theorizes about natural sexual responses to painful stimuli in women, while he fingers her after spanking. Mind you, the sex scene with her happens after the shrinking potion scene, so you get to visualize her as a youngster before the MC fucks her.

Lucy the closest to being an adult? She still needs a shower, daddy... And do the chores so she may get her weekly allowances.

Amy and Liz are both embodiments of sexually maturing (but not mature yet) young women, who - while not silly little girls anymore - still need daddy's wisdom and guidance. Amy is the naughtier of the two, while Liz is a softer version. Notice how the MC constantly knocks Amy down a peg or two: she runs too fast, she uses inappropriate language, she's too horny - typical daddy's concerns. Liz also should moderate her enjoyment of nudity, there are evil people out there who might take advantage of that, just look what you did to me. Sounds like a dad (just disregard the erection) worried that his little girl is not that little anymore.

There are grown women in the game, but surprise! surprise! the MC does not have sex with them, even if he tries. Is that work in progress? I don't know, but suffice it to say that Trixie manipulates him into getting her a job and that she's the lead when blowing him. If he asks (yes, the master asks!) for sex, she flatly refuses and that's it. You/she can edge him to infinity, yet he won't be able to fuck her the way he can fuck Amy and then dismiss her 'I have some important stuff to do.' or 'Run now, don't be late to your classes.' Ms Chang just ignores his magnificent cock like 'boy, do you know how old I am?' while Ruth... Ruth is a conservative (read: sexually repressed) mother figure and conscience in one. She knows exactly what he wants, the way a mother knows when her boy's balls drop, trying to suppress his urges at first and then resigning herself to the fact.

The twist then? The MC is 36 and single... No mention of former relationships, apart from dreams featuring his former pupils. Instead, he brags about reading a lot.

I met lot of acquaintances, even friends and relatives, who had or still have partnerships with an age difference between 10-30 years. Your theory 'that there is someone a daddy (or also mother were the women is older)' in this setup is just wrong. Sure it is possible, but I never met such a pair relationship you described.

You've met a lot of people with a generational+ gap between them and you think the relationship dynamic is just as between peers or almost peers? My father is 25 years older than me and my mom was 27 when she had me. To put thing in a cringer perspective, imagine this - if I may use one of Louis CK's jokes - a 25-year old man looking into a pram and saying 'One day, I'm gonna fuck this baby.'

Especially pairs who are ~25+ and older you usually see not much differences anymore between them if there is a big age gab.

Imagine a 35yo man's wife who is 25 years older than him. She's 60, well past her menopause. He's in his virile prime. She has to wear glasses, perhaps even hearing aids. His senses are still acute.

Age does matter. Arrive at forty and you'll see.

 

[Cartageno]

Lucy the closest to being an adult?

... from within the group of the pupils after all the ones I mentioned earlier. She clearly isn't but relatively speaking when compared to Faye, as an example, she is further on the way.

 

[notme222]

To put thing in a cringer perspective, imagine this - if I may use one of Louis CK's jokes - a 25-year old man looking into a pram and saying 'One day, I'm gonna fuck this baby.'

That's cringe because you're applying a sexual relationship to a baby. Not the age gap in-and-of-itself. Imagine two babies in adjacent prams, and one of the parents saying "One day, these two are gonna fuck." It also wouldn't go over well.

An adult and a minor, you're talking about grooming via power dynamic. That doesn't go away when the younger one reaches 18. But if they both meet as capable adults, even at different stages of life each can still consent to treat the other as an equal.

 

[Enigmanic]

That's cringe because you're applying a sexual relationship to a baby. Not the age gap in-and-of-itself. Imagine two babies in adjacent prams, and one of the parents saying "One day, these two are gonna fuck." It also wouldn't go over well.

An adult and a minor, you're talking about grooming via power dynamic. That doesn't go away when the younger one reaches 18. But if they both meet as capable adults, even at different stages of life each can still consent to treat the other as an equal.

It's still very cringe to make sexual advances on someone you knew when they were a child and you already an adult. A significant age gap is still creepy regardless of whether they are both over 18.