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VN Ren'Py The Intoxicating Flavor [Fantasies v4.0] [PixelsLab]

4.00 star(s) 155 Votes

twiztid

Member
Oct 21, 2020
348
447
Wow, just wow. That's a lot to process. I'm just hearing about this now.

This is a game I have played off and on for years. I have always thought it was a pretty good game, but I always thought it could be better.

Pixel Labs asked for it; So if you are reading this. Here is my input on that one:

Why do I think the game itself was not more successful? The biggest downfall of this game is something that I can sum up in 3 words.

"Wall Of Text"

I haven't played this one in a while, but one thing I remember about it is that at times there would be multiple updates without a single choice from one update to the next. This was both extremely frustrating and annoying as a player.

I understand that adding a bunch of choices adds to the complexity of the project, and it can increase scope creep and make it harder to finish.

At the same time. Not every choice needs to be a game changer. You can put many relatively meaningless choices without each choice becoming it's own branch and own long side story.

If the choices are not there then it becomes a wall of text. That increases the likelihood of skipping.

Once a person is in skipping mode they are no longer engaged with the story or characters. They are just looking for that next rush of excitement. That is usually a sex scene or a choice. That's when they will stop skipping, you will be lucky if they do rollback for about 5 or 10 lines and then play it out again for a little while...

Players like to have variants, and choices. Even if the choice makes no difference at all to the game other than a simple line of dialogue or a couple of renders. You want those options in there. Because at choices it makes the person do 2 things... 1) Stop 2) Think

Do you want players that stop and think or players that do not stop and think?

If they are never stopping and thinking while playing your game they are just going to speed run to the sex scenes... Which is go to preferences, and click on unseen text to enable to enable that and after choices. Then they just hit tab once, and roll through watching it in fast forwards and they aren't stopping for scenes where folks got their clothes on unless maybe something insane happens.

About other things mentioned:

Personal Stuff

As harsh as this may sound never share personal information with folks on the internet. Folks are fickle, and they are usually not here for your "Blog" or "Personal Diary". If you want you can give an explanation while walking out the door, and that's fine.

If you do "Share Personal Stuff" things that supporters want to hear is.

"I got a new computer!" or "I found a collaborator to help updates come out faster!" or "I quit my full time job to focus on development full time!" or "I hired a new proofreader".

What they don't want to hear is...

"My car broke down." or "My dog died." or "My mom is sick and dying in the hospital, and I gotta take care of her." or "I lost my job. I'm out looking for another one." or "The wife is pregnant, and I'm gonna take a month off to spend time with the baby." or "I have been going through depression and..." or "The doctor told me I got cancer, and I'm going in for this operation..." or "My house burned down, and everybody died..."

That's a Gofundme donation for sure, but that won't get you shit on Patreon!

The same folks that will virtue signal or even simp for you in these forums and be like, "Oh, that's too bad. I hope things get better blah blah blah..." Those are the same ones that never supported you or stop supporting you.

Monthly Updates

They are not needed. Patreon loses a chunk of subs at the end of the month every time. A lot of very successful developers update far less frequently. Yes, frequent updates will give you a subscriber boost. However, if you look at the top 100 adult game developers on graphtron. I can't find a single one that releases monthly. A 3 to 6 month release schedule is ideal. Some developers even take a year or more to release. What you do not want players to do is download your game... Have 5 minutes of new content, then throw it in the bin. They want to sit there for at least 30 minutes of content.

In any creative endeavor you will always be in a battle between Quality vs Quantity vs Quickness. The 3 Qs... Sometimes it is good to let go of some "Quickness" to improve quality or increase quantity.

People don't skip a "Being a Dik" update... Because they know a Dik update is going to have many choices, and scenes, and lots of sex. They will skip your updates though because "Click click click click click... (No choices?) click click click click... (Jeeze... No sex this update?)" I never played your game every update... No no no. I played it like once every 3-4 updates. Because that is how long it took for their to be some amount of quantity for me to have some interest.

Moving Forwards

The best way for you to continue in my opinion is as follows.

"Take a little break now if you need one." Reflect on things, and figure out what you want to do.

"Wrap up intoxicating Flavor" give it one or two or even three more updates to complete the game. You don't need a million endings. You just need some closure, and stamp a "Completed" tag on it.

Do not "Start over as a nobody." You haven't ruined your reputation. You are pausing support and have not built a milker reputation and you have a decent amount of paused support. So, it's best to keep your brand going. Starting fresh would be harder.

"Start a new project that is steam friendly." They thought the one girl looks underage? That poisoned the well for you? Okay... Create a new project that conforms to their standards.

"Stop Sharing Personal Stuff" Yea... It's not helping you it and it never helps on Patreon. That only helps on gofundme.

Anyways, Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

100% Agree

You don't bring your personal life into your job. You talk to your boss about it, but when you are the boss never talk to your clients/customers.

I find developers that who space out their updates to push more content, locking down quality have the most success.

The ones who try to rush pushing an update every month, with typos that will only build their experience with the programming, and rendering. You won't burn out, be more productive at a 3-6 month time frame, and even shoot for once a year update. Map out the steps you wanna take for your game development, so you have it set in stone. The most successful VNSs are run as a business, they will outsource work eventually, and take on extra help when they can. In the time being work with what you have coming up with a game plan. Keep at it, Like seaoflove said Good luck
 

Badboll

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
1,880
2,251
So this is an update that was released on, I'm guessing Patreon, 2 months ago and it is just now getting updated here? So, maybe the game is not really abandoned yet? Or has the Dev said anything at all about it? I will admit, I haven't played much of this game, and it has been a while since I have played so I would have to restart to know what is going on. But I wonder, if it is truly abandoned, then should I even bother.
Go back a few pages there is a post from the devs patreon there. He can't financially keep the game development going.
He had to travel to another country to even get the money out of Patreon because Russia.
 

Badboll

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
1,880
2,251
I find developers that who space out their updates to push more content, locking down quality have the most success.
The 3 Q's like the other guy said is what you need to balance, Quality Quickness and Quantity.
3-6 months up to a year is still going to cost you money. People won't stick around for that.
I really want to see the statistics for that claim.
If you only charge your patreons when you post an update that's fine, then people are going to probably stick around. But you will make 0 dollars while you are not putting out updates. If you charge monthly while releasing yearly I doubt people will keep that sub going, sure there are alot of people that just forget.
 

ChrisHaze

Active Member
Nov 12, 2018
517
504
Damn, imagine working on a game for almost 6 years just to abandon it lmao. Imagine all the money patrons wasted for an unfinished product. Will this guy reimburse them or?.... I'm not a patron so I'm not asking for anything I'm just curious how this gets handled.
 

zaqrwe

Member
Jun 29, 2018
467
461
But wasn't the main reason sanctions? I mean sure, this could've been better if the game was a revelation of the century, so even money got after sanctions was enough to get by, but ultimatelly it was going good enough to sustain iteself if dev was living in normal country.
 
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botc76

The Crawling Chaos, Bringer of Strange Joy
Donor
Oct 23, 2016
4,487
13,414
Wow, just wow. That's a lot to process. I'm just hearing about this now.

Players like to have variants, and choices. Even if the choice makes no difference at all to the game other than a simple line of dialogue or a couple of renders. You want those options in there. Because at choices it makes the person do 2 things... 1) Stop 2) Think

Do you want players that stop and think or players that do not stop and think?

If they are never stopping and thinking while playing your game they are just going to speed run to the sex scenes... Which is go to preferences, and click on unseen text to enable to enable that and after choices. Then they just hit tab once, and roll through watching it in fast forwards and they aren't stopping for scenes where folks got their clothes on unless maybe something insane happens.
Yeah, sure. Choices are fine. Choices are great. But here I never missed having more choices, because I was actually interested in the story. So many games here telling the exact same story, even for games with similar topics like mysterious powers and gods and demons Intoxicating Flavour did basically everything different.
I don't think there was any other game where there were obvious weaknesses in English and yet the story still managed to convey its quality just fine.
In other words, there are a lot of games with many choices that I just skip from choice to choice, because in the end it's just which of the two dozen harem girls does the MC fuck now, which clothes will she be wearing, do I punch the guy or smooth talk him. This one actually pondered moral questions which were interesting.
If someone skipped through this, it says more about the person skipping than about the game.


About other things mentioned:


The same folks that will virtue signal or even simp for you in these forums and be like, "Oh, that's too bad. I hope things get better blah blah blah..." Those are the same ones that never supported you or stop supporting you.
No shit? You know that how exactly? Do you work for patreon? Do you conduct monthly questionnaires with patrons/players of all games here and on patreon?
I don't even get what you are saying, that patrons are all uncaring bastards who don't give a shit about the devs health or circumstances outside the game? Not what I see and read, more like the other way around, patrons are more often than not more understanding and appreciative than players who don't support a game financially. I mean, on patreon you never just support the project, you always support the artist just as much.
And honestly, to claim that just because people show sympathy and understanding they aren't patrons is complete and utter BS.
IDK if you honestly believe people are just virtue signalling, maybe you are just one of the people who don't understand what virtue signalling actually means, because if people just virtue signalled here, they wouldn't really care about the dev or his problems and would just claim so, to feel important.
The audacity otherwise, to just declare that everyone not being an asshole is just simping or virtue-signaling. Just screw you, mate, seriously. Really, this is nothing more than an attempt to dismiss anyone who doesn't see things the way you do. A bad faith argumentation to devalue any other pov.

People don't skip a "Being a Dik" update... Because they know a Dik update is going to have many choices, and scenes, and lots of sex. They will skip your updates though because "Click click click click click... (No choices?) click click click click... (Jeeze... No sex this update?)" I never played your game every update... No no no. I played it like once every 3-4 updates. Because that is how long it took for their to be some amount of quantity for me to have some interest.
No, people stop playing "Being a Dik" because of bullshit like having to play for hours at a stupid party finding the one thing they missed to continue and then possibly having to do it again and again for each different route.
It's also funny, because the DiK updates sure take a fucking long time as well. Until his problems, Pixelslab usually had several updates between a single "Being a Dik" update, even if they are smaller. There are many games with smaller updates where people will either play the update or wait until 3-4 have accumulated, because they like a meatier chunk to play through, that alone doesn't say much about a game, more about the individual players preferences.
What a choice for a game to compare, I'm guessing just because Being A Dik rakes in the money, because apart from that these two games have absolutely nothing in common.
Being a DiK is just a dating sim with allusions. Think about the quality of writing what you will, but that is so obviously not what "The Intoxicating Flavor" was about. It's not a dating sim, it's not a harem fuckfeast, it's not a "being an alpha male power trip," not a "how do I get girls to fuck me." It didn't have to be, because that wasn't the game Pixelslab wanted to do.
Don't you think someone who writes an intriguing story like that, knows he might have fared better financially, if he did a simple porn game and gave people like you the sex and worthless choices they demand?
Don't you think he knew that telling people to stop supporting him, because he wasn't able to work on the game properly for a while, would damage him financially?

Jay-zuz Karist, your whole post is so arrogant and annoying.
 
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botc76

The Crawling Chaos, Bringer of Strange Joy
Donor
Oct 23, 2016
4,487
13,414
I just wanna say thank you for making an incredible game. I hope things work out for you in the long run. Stay strong and know you have community of people who wish you well.
Yeah, and ignore all these other assholes who only realized the game wasn't going to be finished two months after the fact and just waltz in here to make the usual stupid claims about knowing everything better and how all devs are just milkers and how you have to finish your game whether you die or not.
Most people and I'm sure that includes the majority of patrons might be frustrated and sad to see this game being unfinished, but still understand why it happened and that you of all people wouldn't have made that decision if you saw any other option.
 
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Alfius

Engaged Member
Modder
Sep 30, 2017
2,362
4,933
Uh.... I don't remember sexing up Kate that many times. Maria neither, I thought Maria was like 3 times.
It's one of my bad habits, to make save of all the sex scenes with the MC in a game (And a separate section for BJs)
I do it for every game I play.

I just quickly counted all the saves and viola, these are the figures.

From memory I remember having sex with Maria on the first day already....
Kate takes a while to get to her, but once you starts, she can not keep her hands of you.

Liv is Liv.. Mostly flashbacks and dreamworld Liv

Teagan Flashback
 
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trumpthatbitch

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2017
1,020
1,601
I'm the same. I was following this one pretty closely at the start, but then the dev lost the plot and started filibustering the player in the updates and I lost interest. It is the LOST of porno games.
I played it at the very beginning but it was clear pretty early that this was not going to end well. I wrote a review on this in 2019 came back twice to see if anything changed and finally just ignored all updates.

I mean even the people who liked the game if you read the comments claim it's unique, nothing else like it, well there is a reason for that. If his goal was to make money then creating something like this so far removed from what most people want
 

1egn

Newbie
Sep 23, 2019
20
6
"Wall Of Text"

I haven't played this one in a while, but one thing I remember about it is that at times there would be multiple updates without a single choice from one update to the next. This was both extremely frustrating and annoying as a player.

I understand that adding a bunch of choices adds to the complexity of the project, and it can increase scope creep and make it harder to finish.

At the same time. Not every choice needs to be a game changer. You can put many relatively meaningless choices without each choice becoming it's own branch and own long side story.

If the choices are not there then it becomes a wall of text. That increases the likelihood of skipping.

Once a person is in skipping mode they are no longer engaged with the story or characters. They are just looking for that next rush of excitement. That is usually a sex scene or a choice. That's when they will stop skipping, you will be lucky if they do rollback for about 5 or 10 lines and then play it out again for a little while...

Players like to have variants, and choices. Even if the choice makes no difference at all to the game other than a simple line of dialogue or a couple of renders. You want those options in there. Because at choices it makes the person do 2 things... 1) Stop 2) Think

Do you want players that stop and think or players that do not stop and think?

If they are never stopping and thinking while playing your game they are just going to speed run to the sex scenes... Which is go to preferences, and click on unseen text to enable to enable that and after choices. Then they just hit tab once, and roll through watching it in fast forwards and they aren't stopping for scenes where folks got their clothes on unless maybe something insane happens.
man this is just personal preference no matter what or how you make something some people will like it some don't me for example don't really like choices especially when you have to choose between LIs and because most of devs don't really implant choices well I rather don't have any than have meaningless ones
and to be honest at the beginning when I just have found this site I was just skipping through VNs to get to the sex scenes but now story is more important to me than sex scenes I still want them to be frequent but it's just not as important as story
so I don't skip anything anymore unless I downloaded a game just for the sex scenes and this game wasn't one of them this was one of my favorits I'm sad it got abandoned I hope one day I open latest updates page and see there is a new update for it, loved the story and characters I would love to see it gets a well deserved conclusion
p.s. lot of people complain about long texts lore dumps and stuff like that in lot of VNs and I highly recommend to use ren'py's self-voicing, once I started using it I can't do without, it makes reading less taxing on brain and it gets easier to comprehend when someone else is reading out loud what you are reading in your head and I also recommend devs use it for proofreading it will do half the work for them
and also you don't have to play all the game in one setting, pace your self so that you don't get burned out
 

seaoflove

Member
Jan 31, 2023
269
848
I do agree partly with what you wrote here about over sharing but when it comes to things like delays in production, providing the subscribers with a general idea of what the reason is for the delay is better than not mentioning it at all and will help retain those subscribers. I'm sure even you have seen people complaining about the lack of communication from dev teams in both online games and VN's which resorted to some of them being abandoned by those same people.
Don't set a deadline that you can not hit 100% barring your death or some apocalyptic scenario or like a major injury or something huge. That's where some devs get them self in trouble. "I will release monthly." Oh shit... I'm not ready to release this month... There goes the rep and here comes the excuse. Nobody wants an excuse.

Much better is some sort of progress chart on the Patreon. Every 5 or 10% you work on the update then update the chart.

That way they keep going back to the Patreon and checking. They see the bar moving. They don't need you to tell them your life story.

They don't care that your aunt cat died and you had to fly out of town for the feline funeral and they lost your bags, and you didn't have internet for a few days, and you stubbed your toe real bad and you gotta go to the doctors when you get home.

It may sound harsh, but "Nobody Cares".

Patreon is not Gofundme.

They want the product not the sob story.
 

yossa999

Engaged Member
Dec 5, 2020
2,400
16,155
Damn, imagine working on a game for almost 6 years just to abandon it lmao. Imagine all the money patrons wasted for an unfinished product. Will this guy reimburse them or?.... I'm not a patron so I'm not asking for anything I'm just curious how this gets handled.
Are you one of those people who think donations will buy them developers' asses?

No, dude, donations are the way to help a talented creator in their work. Donations made by people who appreciate creator's work and can support them financially. If you're looking for a finished product on Patreon, that's your problem, you've wasted your money without understanding what you're paying for.

Although I was supporting TIF on Patreon several years ago and unfortunately was unable to continue later, I in no way believe that this money were wasted. It was my very small modest contribution to the creation of this game. That's how this gets handled.

Do you want a finished product? Wait for the official release on Steam or other platforms for selling digital products (and in the case of TIF there is no such product, so your money is safe)

If you want to help a developer create their game and receve the work-in-progress content as soon as it's created, step by step, welcome to Patreon or similar services, but remember you're not paying for the finished product, you're helping create it.

And yes, I can perfectly imagine how games are abandoned after a years of the development. Even very good games. Even made by very skilled developers. Because these developers are just people, and they also have lives beyond development logs, and sometimes in order to survive, you have to give up your favorite creation for a stable boring job to feed yourself and your family.

If you want games like TIF to develop and continue to live, help to finance their development whenever possible. If you take for free the fruits of the labor of the dev, created with the help of the "wasted" money of his supporters, do not be surprised that at some point the freebie will end and the game will be abandoned.

I've been following a bunch of games and developers long enough to say with confidence that Pixel has always been very open and honest with his subscribers. Maybe even too open, which some people in this thread even noted as a mistake of the dev. Since the truth about his health condition and the difficulties he had to face most likely pushed away a certain part of his subscribers. In the periods when he couldn't work on a project, he put payments on hold. And when he no longer had the opportunity to continue the project, he told this honestly and in detail, and did not simply disappear into the sunset without saying a word, like certain devs. :HideThePain:

So I'm really upset about how things turned out, but I believe that Pixel can make it through these difficult times and one day get back to creating visual novels, because despite all the flaws, TIF is an amazing game made by a talented developer.
 

pothb

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2018
1,257
1,376
It's one of my bad habits, to make save of all the sex scenes with the MC in a game (And a separate section for BJs)
I do it for every game I play.

I just quickly counted all the saves and viola, these are the figures.

From memory I remember having sex with Maria on the first day already....
Kate takes a while to get to her, but once you starts, she can not keep her hands of you.

Liv is Liv.. Mostly flashbacks and dreamworld Liv

Teagan Flashback
Wait, are you putting all the sex in rapid succession as different scene scenes?
 

Alfius

Engaged Member
Modder
Sep 30, 2017
2,362
4,933
Wait, are you putting all the sex in rapid succession as different scene scenes?
As saves

Like this

(I do this for every game I play: I then do stupid stats. Like whom did I sleep with first, who did I sleep with the most. Compare the girls etc. etc.)

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seaoflove

Member
Jan 31, 2023
269
848
Yeah, sure. Choices are fine. Choices are great. But here I never missed having more choices, because I was actually interested in the story. So many games here telling the exact same story, even for games with similar topics like mysterious powers and gods and demons Intoxicating Flavour did basically everything different.
I don't think there was any other game where there were obvious weaknesses in English and yet the story still managed to convey its quality just fine.
In other words, there are a lot of games with many choices that I just skip from choice to choice, because in the end it's just which of the two dozen harem girls does the MC fuck now, which clothes will she be wearing, do I punch the guy or smooth talk him. This one actually pondered moral questions which were interesting.
If someone skipped through this, it says more about the person skipping than about the game.
You are of the minority opinion. You need to understand that attention spans have been dropping for years with access to things like Tik Tok, and 30 second videos have been making that problem much worse. When you get that sex scene, or good teasing, or a choice then you get a little dopamine rush. It doesn't really matter if the writing is on par with Shakespeare if the choices are spaced out to oblivion.

You make a ton of sense if the year is 1984 and not 2024. People could actually sit down and read a book in those days.

The more clicks that a player does before reaching a choice the greater the odds that they will be skipping dialogue.

Skipping Dialogue = No longer fully invested in the characters = Less likely to support

It's important to understand that the target audience for an adult game is a coomer.


No shit? You know that how exactly? Do you work for patreon? Do you conduct monthly questionnaires with patrons/players of all games here and on patreon?
I don't even get what you are saying, that patrons are all uncaring bastards who don't give a shit about the devs health or circumstances outside the game? Not what I see and read, more like the other way around, patrons are more often than not more understanding and appreciative than players who don't support a game financially. I mean, on patreon you never just support the project, you always support the artist just as much.
And honestly, to claim that just because people show sympathy and understanding they aren't patrons is complete and utter BS.
IDK if you honestly believe people are just virtue signalling, maybe you are just one of the people who don't understand what virtue signalling actually means, because if people just virtue signalled here, they wouldn't really care about the dev or his problems and would just claim so, to feel important.
The audacity otherwise, to just declare that everyone not being an asshole is just simping or virtue-signaling. Just screw you, mate, seriously. Really, this is nothing more than an attempt to dismiss anyone who doesn't see things the way you do. A bad faith argumentation to devalue any other pov.
I don't need to conduct a scientific survey that is peer reviewed to understand these simple things.

Patreon is a platform designed to connect content creators with crowd funding. If your business model includes personal stories about how things aren't going right in your life then that is more of a go fund me plan. Is there some degree of cross over between the two? I'm sure there is, but the bulk of Patreon supporters primarily support the creators for the content and that is it. That is just common sense!

It doesn't matter how beloved a creator is the supporters are there to support content.

When you go to McDonalds, do you want to hear a story from the cashier about their boyfriend broke up with them, and their dad is being a real jerk, and feet hurt?

No... I don't think you do even if she is cute. I think that you want your nuggets and fries!

The only time that a customer wants that sort of thing is in the event of it's like a bar, and it is a regular customer, and they have really gotten to know the bartender over an extended period of time, and even in that case if the bartender says, "Sorry no beer today." That money is going elsewhere! That regular is out the door. Because there 100 other little bars out there just like that bar and they are all looking for a a new customer.

No, people stop playing "Being a Dik" because of bullshit like having to play for hours at a stupid party finding the one thing they missed to continue and then possibly having to do it again and again for each different route.
It's also funny, because the DiK updates sure take a fucking long time as well. Until his problems, Pixelslab usually had several updates between a single "Being a Dik" update, even if they are smaller. There are many games with smaller updates where people will either play the update or wait until 3-4 have accumulated, because they like a meatier chunk to play through, that alone doesn't say much about a game, more about the individual players preferences.
What a choice for a game to compare, I'm guessing just because Being A Dik rakes in the money, because apart from that these two games have absolutely nothing in common.
Being a DiK is just a dating sim with allusions. Think about the quality of writing what you will, but that is so obviously not what "The Intoxicating Flavor" was about. It's not a dating sim, it's not a harem fuckfeast, it's not a "being an alpha male power trip," not a "how do I get girls to fuck me." It didn't have to be, because that wasn't the game Pixelslab wanted to do.
Don't you think someone who writes an intriguing story like that, knows he might have fared better financially, if he did a simple porn game and gave people like you the sex and worthless choices they demand?
Don't you think he knew that telling people to stop supporting him, because he wasn't able to work on the game properly for a while, would damage him financially?

Jay-zuz Karist, your whole post is so arrogant and annoying.
You have a point that Dik has gotten to the opposite extreme. I don't like the sandbox and minigame elements of that game either. The release schedule extending beyond a year can also pose problems as well. I was saying 3 to 6 months is the "Sweet Spot".

As for comparison to Being a Dik. They are both on renpy, they both have a male protagonist, they both have multiple love interests. There are some similarities. I'm sure there are other games that would be a more similar comparison to intoxicating flavor. Why don't you think some better comparisons up for everyone?

I don't think you understand what the word arrogant means, and anything could be considered annoying.
 
4.00 star(s) 155 Votes