RPGM The Last Sovereign [v0.74.7] [Sierra Lee]

[Maizemallard]

I kind of agree on your last point, but honestly after playing a bunch i can't help but feel like the whole thing would have been way more compelling with a younger protagonist growing into the role. Hours in i like the writing, the plot and the characters, but i just don't feel much of anything for Simon. There's just a disconnect for me. Feels like i'm playing some RPG, thinking of Dragon Age Origins here, with a character who's got cheaty stats in everything but combat, and who also looks too old compated to everyone else.

Also, Gathering's toff. Spent two days agonizing over investments 'cause i didn't whore out Qum, next time i'm taking the money and my repaired bridge

Glad to hear you liking the game and getting in the groove of things. Though I'm a bit sadden to hear that you haven't warmed up to Simon as he is my favorite character but I'm interested in your point because in my opinion Simon is a much more compelling character than a younger protagonist would be. its really interesting to be a protagonist who is leveled minded and also experienced and its really cool to see Simon change with the world but also keep his ideals and what he believes. Like in the beginning he distrusted yarra because of his past but as you get to know her Simon grows to trust her and at the end of the chapter 1 he trusts yarra enough to ask her opinion on what to do I find that really compelling to me its shows that his past has had a deep effect on him but he still can change and grow as a person. I also viewed Simon as a good generalist but never the best at any given field. Overall I think its just comes down to personal taste I prefer Simon to any other younger protagonist keep us updated on your progress its interesting to see what you think and I'll be interested if you will change your mind on Simon later in the game (My god I need to find more words to replace Interesting I'm using that word way to often)

 

[congamensch]

I kind of agree on your last point, but honestly after playing a bunch i can't help but feel like the whole thing would have been way more compelling with a younger protagonist growing into the role. Hours in i like the writing, the plot and the characters, but i just don't feel much of anything for Simon. There's just a disconnect for me. Feels like i'm playing some RPG, thinking of Dragon Age Origins here, with a character who's got cheaty stats in everything but combat, and who also looks too old compated to everyone else.

If I may ask, how old are you? I'm not sassing/trolling you or anything, I'm genuinely curious- I'll be 37 next year, and from what I've read in this thread the younger the player, the less likely they are to connect with Simon, or find him realistic. After all, he IS in his late fifties at the beginning of the game; from my own experience, his knowledge of the world wouldn't be out of place for someone who's spent all that time travelling a lot while keeping his eyes and ears open.

Also, Gathering's toff. Spent two days agonizing over investments 'cause i didn't whore out Qum, next time i'm taking the money and my repaired bridge

Oooooh no, you wouldn't want to do that. There are a LOT of negative knock-on effects from that decision, so many that it doesn't make the choice a worthwhile one.

 

[Maizemallard]

Maybe to help this discussion and to help promote SL works There is prequel story that isn't widely known called the War of Lust and adds a bit more to Simons character and shows how the past was. Its not necessary to enjoy the story in the game but its a good read.

you can get it for free with this link

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or you can purchase it with this link

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[RickJencans]

Oooooh no, you wouldn't want to do that. There are a LOT of negative knock-on effects from that decision, so many that it doesn't make the choice a worthwhile one.

I actually think it's very worth it. You miss out on some reputation, but Qum is pathetically easy to max out to the point that you basically can't help but do it unless you are trying not to, and Yarra will likewise get maxed really fast if you aren't making a lot of other strange decisions. Sure, some people will wag their fingers at you and say "How could you, that was real rude of you!" but there are no real permanent downsides so far from the decision other than a quest reward where you can either get the Sexual Pin & the Succubus Pin if you didn't whore Qum and did everything right, or just the Succubus Pin if you whored her and did everything else right. The Succubus Pin is the better version and you can still get it even if you whore Qum, and the Sexual Pin can be acquired in other places if you really really want one for some reason. Unless the creepy little girl from spooky world turns out to care about it and that matters down the line in a big way, but so far there are no big problems. With the extra 15k from whoring her, it makes a very big difference down the line for your money snowball and/or a small difference in a more important battle later on if you save Carina's soldiers. This seems like a thing that players will differ on though, depending on where they like to put their investments. For me whoring Qum is basically mandatory, if they make it so that it has a huge bad effect from the little girl or another reason, I will possibly reconsider but for now it's just too good to pass up.

 

[Fulminato]

I actually think it's very worth it. You miss out on some reputation, but Qum is pathetically easy to max out to the point that you basically can't help but do it unless you are trying not to, and Yarra will likewise get maxed really fast if you aren't making a lot of other strange decisions. Sure, some people will wag their fingers at you and say "How could you, that was real rude of you!" but there are no real permanent downsides so far from the decision other than a quest reward where you can either get the Sexual Pin & the Succubus Pin if you didn't whore Qum and did everything right, or just the Succubus Pin if you whored her and did everything else right. The Succubus Pin is the better version and you can still get it even if you whore Qum, and the Sexual Pin can be acquired in other places if you really really want one for some reason. Unless the creepy little girl from spooky world turns out to care about it and that matters down the line in a big way, but so far there are no big problems. With the extra 15k from whoring her, it makes a very big difference down the line for your money snowball and/or a small difference in a more important battle later on if you save Carina's soldiers. This seems like a thing that players will differ on though, depending on where they like to put their investments. For me whoring Qum is basically mandatory, if they make it so that it has a huge bad effect from the little girl or another reason, I will possibly reconsider but for now it's just too good to pass up.

you forget the little girl question about whoring qum. we don'k know how or when, but it WILL have an effect.

and i don't want return in the morass of "whoring qum good/bad decision", but you can have everything you have whoring qum, without whoring her. and the real snow ball effect is very little with good planing.

 

[Bird's actions]

I really would have expected the Anak to have a stronger reaction than "interesting" to that thing that happened at the end of the second gathering.

 

[Gehoji]

Whoring Qum out is like kicking a puppy. A very slutty puppy, but a puppy none the less. To be fair I use Qum as my moral guideline in the game. If she doesn't like it I don't do it.

 

[Maizemallard]

No need to worry, not taking like sassing I'm 24, so that could definitely be a reason.

The others reasons are hard to put into words. Best way i can summarize some of them: Simon knows things, but he learned those things offscreen, Simon mourns and loved his wife, but their relationship, recollections aside, is offscreen, Simon's liked by some really good characters, (Hilstara, Riala, Carina, Sarai, Robin) but, again, it's all offscreen. And on screen i'm just given wise words and sex scenes. Best way i can explain it is that, at best and for right now, Simon just feels like a catalyst to me, with the really great part being the harem's dynamics and the slow buildup of them.

Heck, if i'm being honest, as much as i didn't like certain parts of the gathering, i did like the character work there, and i really look forward to seeing how everyone's grown (Megail, Hilstara, Aka), or maybe yet didn't(Trin, Carina), since joining the group.

I can actually agree the game has a habit of telling the player about someone's past and how they felt about their past instead of showing the player what happened and how they acted. This unfortunately hits Simon the worst because a lot of interesting moments that happens to Simon is based on what happened in the past so we cant easily become connected to Simon because we didn't see his hardships or how he feel in love with Wendis and what impact her death had on him at the time. Though the game circumvents this issue by showing how those past incidents still have a effect on present Simon which is cool to see. That's why I think flashbacks for Simon and other characters would be really awesome but not necessary because I like Simon and the other characters even without flashbacks.

 

[Bird's actions]

Simon is a developed character. IMO, developed characters are much better as protagonists than blank slates.

 

[congamensch]

The others reasons are hard to put into words. Best way i can summarize some of them: Simon knows things, but he learned those things offscreen, Simon mourns and loved his wife, but their relationship, recollections aside, is offscreen, Simon's liked by some really good characters, (Hilstara, Riala, Carina, Sarai, Robin) but, again, it's all offscreen.

Yeah, that's a fair criticism. I mean, I can understand why Sierra did it- most of the stuff Simon talks about is important to the plot, exposition coming from stuff the character should know is much better than an "As you know..." moment, and it might have been boring to play through if we had to play through them. On the other hand, TLS made economics and international politics exciting, so it could be argued that if Sierra wanted to, we could have played though those bits and found them as interesting as any other section of the game. That's editing for you, I suppose. Besides, most of that stuff is worldbuilding, and once you're out of the early chapters you'll be making a lot more history than retreading old ground

I really would have expected the Anak to have a stronger reaction than "interesting" to that thing that happened at the end of the second gathering.

Eh, he's the Anak, 'mysterious' is his shtick. The dude probably does the Gendo pose if his cereal's a little soggier than usual, and nods knowingly if he sees an empty TP roll.

 

[Maizemallard]

I don't know about the rest of you but I would love to see how Simon and Robin meet especially because Simon found Robin after Wendis died so he probably wasn't at his best and it could show how they both helped each other. It also doesn't have to be a retread on already known topics maybe by adding something to the dynamic between characters through flashbacks maybe Simon could see the encounter through Robin eyes and Robin could see through Simons eyes creating a stronger connections between the two and allow the player to become more emotionally invested in the characters because its always better to show than to tell though SL does an amazing job at telling. There are other characters that can really benefit from some flashbacks but TLS is already incredibly long so I don't think its feasible and or necessary but its defiantly a really cool idea.

P.S its also really encouraging to see this Thread being respectful and having discussions on a variety of topics

 

[RickJencans]

you forget the little girl question about whoring qum. we don'k know how or when, but it WILL have an effect.

and i don't want return in the morass of "whoring qum good/bad decision", but you can have everything you have whoring qum, without whoring her. and the real snow ball effect is very little with good planing.

Well, I did mention it actually, two times. I didn't forget about the little girl. But for now we don't know if there will be a bad effect or not. She just asks about it. For all we know we get a free strawberry daiquiri for whoring her. As I said if the consequences from her are too great, it might be different, but as the game stands now you don't lose out on anything except feeling bad because you did something mean in a game and the sexual pin which isn't unique or a very strong item anyway. And getting that extra 15k lets you hire mercenaries if you want, such as the Iron Cudgel which can be used again way later in your base, but only if you hired them early on, or the Ari-Garda which helps with some other quests later and keeps them from fighting against you. Or repair the bridge for the rep and prosperity and some discounts on the next round. You get real benefits from the 15k earlier, but you get almost no real downside. They might not be that big, but it helps!

 

[Fulminato]

Well, I did mention it actually, two times. I didn't forget about the little girl. But for now we don't know if there will be a bad effect or not. She just asks about it. For all we know we get a free strawberry daiquiri for whoring her. As I said if the consequences from her are too great, it might be different, but as the game stands now you don't lose out on anything except feeling bad because you did something mean in a game and the sexual pin which isn't unique or a very strong item anyway. And getting that extra 15k lets you hire mercenaries if you want, such as the Iron Cudgel which can be used again way later in your base, but only if you hired them early on, or the Ari-Garda which helps with some other quests later and keeps them from fighting against you. Or repair the bridge for the rep and prosperity and some discounts on the next round. You get real benefits from the 15k earlier, but you get almost no real downside. They might not be that big, but it helps!

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[RickJencans]

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Eh. The mercenaries are not the BEST choice it's just one of the choices you can do, and it gives you some extra stuff later on if you hire Ari-Garda. You are right, cache excavation is another option you can use the gold on. For me, it helps me have enough gold to take Stineford Magic Shop with everything else that I choose, and still have 5k pron left over for something like Public Works. But if you take the mercenaries, you can save Carina's Men which gives you bonus in the next war, bonus with Carina who is actually kinda hard to max depending on your choices, and you can keep them around later. So it's not a totally awful choice. You keep talking about "compensating for all the cons whoring qum has" but... there aren't any! The only downside is loss of a Sexual Pin you can get other places, and the reputation losses which don't matter because Qum and Yarra love you anyway. As I said I think this is something that some players will just never agree on for emotional/story reasons, but the fact is that right now unless the little girl does turn out to penalize you in a major way, there is no real big incentive not to do it. Telling people it's 100% not worth it and warning them against it is probably not correct, we should instead explain that it's a trade off and at this point a slightly beneficial one with the potential for it to backfire in future updates.

At least for my route, without the extra 15k I would be sacrificing the stineford magic shop for something else, losing out on 100K just in the first round of investments after Simon's return! That would be a massive snowball effect to lose out on that so early and probably keep me from opening the big ruin later on.

EDIT - I fucked up, I meant to say that the bridge repair gives Carina RP. The mercenaries don't. But the bridge saves money for the 2nd round investments and gives RP, and Carina is kind of hard to max if you don't prioritize her because most of her rep gains are just tiny ones throughout the story or they depend on you picking the Ivalan side in certain events. If you want to vote against war + orc extermination in Ardford(which you do, unless you wanna miss cool orcs...), make a new religion at the synod, and say screw the church in most cases, Carina needs some extra attention to get 99 so far. In my game she just barely got to 99 before I caught up to the updates even with repairing the bridge, not creating a new religion, and having great results in the wars. Even if that doesn't matter at all, it still is better to spend the money on something like Cache Excavation as you mentioned, which gives Simon stats and some profit for your next round when he returns.

 

[catal010]

the game itself tell you to let carina's men die is the 'canon' decision.

huh, where is this told in the game? probably have read it but cant remember
is it the part where Carina men said they are prepared to die for the cause on the bonfire yard in ancient IK castle?

 

[BBM62]

The beauty of the TLS is that you can play however you want and your playthough would be as valid as anyone else.
In my "mostly optimized" save in Chapter 1 i did some things that could be considered sub optimal from the financial standpoint. Like hiring Iron Cudgel, repairing the the bridge. Investing in Premium Steel. I had to borrow some money from Megail to do so, tho. Also i didn't invest in Eustrin embassy at all. As such i had to make Unpeople Vote to pass to ensure Darghelon's ambassador cooperation. It actually created a unique branch of dialogues and consequences regarding to more Unpeople in Yhilin. There's Dari's unpeople investigation miniquest. I only invested in the Ivalan Bank during my stay in Ardford and didn't invest in Yhilin and Ardoheim banks until just before the Council of Gawnfall because other things were more important. All in all while i may not get all the best results, usually it's most of them anyway. Take Gawnfall Council for example. I achieved the best result in everything but Tak'kan Major and Economics in minor issues. The game is all about decisions and consequences after all.

 

[Fulminato]

Eh. The mercenaries are not the BEST choice it's just one of the choices you can do, and it gives you some extra stuff later on if you hire Ari-Garda. You are right, cache excavation is another option you can use the gold on. For me, it helps me have enough gold to take Stineford Magic Shop with everything else that I choose, and still have 5k pron left over for something like Public Works. But if you take the mercenaries, you can save Carina's Men which gives you bonus in the next war, bonus with Carina who is actually kinda hard to max depending on your choices, and you can keep them around later. So it's not a totally awful choice. You keep talking about "compensating for all the cons whoring qum has" but... there aren't any! The only downside is loss of a Sexual Pin you can get other places, and the reputation losses which don't matter because Qum and Yarra love you anyway. As I said I think this is something that some players will just never agree on for emotional/story reasons, but the fact is that right now unless the little girl does turn out to penalize you in a major way, there is no real big incentive not to do it. Telling people it's 100% not worth it and warning them against it is probably not correct, we should instead explain that it's a trade off and at this point a slightly beneficial one with the potential for it to backfire in future updates.

At least for my route, without the extra 15k I would be sacrificing the stineford magic shop for something else, losing out on 100K just in the first round of investments after Simon's return! That would be a massive snowball effect to lose out on that so early and probably keep me from opening the big ruin later on.

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huh, where is this told in the game? probably have read it but cant remember
is it the part where Carina men said they are prepared to die for the cause on the bonfire yard in ancient IK castle?

no, obviously no one in the game tell you "it's right let carina men die", but if you put in the two plates of the scale the positive effect for save them and the other one the positive effect for not save them... the first is empty, the other not. it's similar to the synod. succubi accepted in the church is so rewarding to be the natural objective for one want the best result in the game (at the moment, but we need an absurd huge bonus in new religion/church diverge scenario for beign at the same magnitude of accepted succubi). one choice is so overwhelming better to the other to make little sense go for the alternative.

 

[RickJencans]

we need an absurd huge bonus in new religion/church diverge scenario for beign at the same magnitude of accepted succubi). one choice is so overwhelming better to the other to make little sense go for the alternative.

For me, it seems like the "natural" route is to make your own religion, and that would give you better power and influence in the long term whereas sharing some with the church might have problems down the road. I am fully expecting the separate religion to get some positive effects late down the road, but I also went for accepted succubi for now as I agree the bonuses are too good to pass up.

Oh and as for your reply to me, I don't think you've looked at the investment math on this recently. It does actually give you a whole extra 100k to take stineford magic shop, because it amplifies Ardoheim Magic Trade returns as well. It also gives another whopping bonus of up to 200k o n the second round after simon's return, as you can get up to 225k from AMT and 50k from SMS compared to the maximum 75k you can get without the stineford magic shop from the ardoheim magic trade alone.

 

[Fulminato]

For me, it seems like the "natural" route is to make your own religion, and that would give you better power and influence in the long term whereas sharing some with the church might have problems down the road. I am fully expecting the separate religion to get some positive effects late down the road, but I also went for accepted succubi for now as I agree the bonuses are too good to pass up.

for all the investments having a variable price based on synod result the "succubi accepted" is the lowest. you can have up to +5 ivalan acceptance with succubi accepted (and none for new religion/church diverge), and we already see it's a global stat used in chapter 5 in every (synod) scenario. your max legit is ~15, so we talk about the ~33% of the total (and many of the investments giving you ivalan acceptance have lower price with succubi accepted).

Oh and as for your reply to me, I don't think you've looked at the investment math on this recently. It does actually give you a whole extra 100k to take stineford magic shop, because it amplifies Ardoheim Magic Trade returns as well. It also gives another whopping bonus of up to 200k o n the second round after simon's return, as you can get up to 225k from AMT and 50k from SMS compared to the maximum 75k you can get without the stineford magic shop from the ardoheim magic trade alone.

and you think i don't buy stineford shop? it's a (financial) suicide avoid it. and you can have it with a unwhored qum route without any problem. [and you still can chose to repair the bridge or not].

 

[RickJencans]

for all the investments having a variable price based on synod result the "succubi accepted" is the lowest. you can have up to +5 ivalan acceptance with succubi accepted (and none for new religion/church diverge), and we already see it's a global stat used in chapter 5 in every (synod) scenario. your max legit is ~15, so we talk about the ~33% of the total (and many of the investments giving you ivalan acceptance have lower price with succubi accepted).



and you think i don't buy stineford shop? it's a (financial) suicide avoid it. and you can have it with a unwhored qum route without any problem. [and you still can chose to repair the bridge or not].

If you don't ask megail for the extra 25k, then you only have 95k to play with after whoring qum. 25k for the mine, 25k for the bank, 25k for megail's "gift" supplier, 10 for stineford and 10 for either the bridge or the cache excavation uses up everything. Asking megail for the money gives 120k total and lets you pick up premium steel & public works, or else the bridge/cache both instead of just one, as well as anti-corruption and public works.

Without whoring qum, you lose 15k here and only have 80k or else 105k. With 80k, you can't take Stineford magic shop, megail's gift supplier, the mine and the bank. You have to lose one of those, or else ask megail for the extra funds. So that is what I meant about "losing" the magic shop if you don't whore her, although maybe you ask megail for the money here in which case you still have 105k, meaning in my route I would take the magic shop, the mine, the bank, the gift supplier, and with the remaining 20k I would take premium steel, and that means losing out on cache excavation and the bridge, or public works & anti-corruption (or mercenaries, or whatever else you might want for that 15k).

In the example of losing cache excavation and bridge, you are losing out on 20k potential savings in investments in Megail's Route, assuming you take the Ardoheim Magic Trade & Yhilini Supplier, and the 25k from Cache Excavation, as well as the little stat boosts and the items. So it costs you 45k from Megail's Route that way, and you end up with a snowball effect from that, plus you had to take Megail's money to do it which costs you as well. If you do the 120k route while whoring her and taking Megail's money, then you get most of the interest money back from being able to buy premium steel a round earlier combined with the extra 45k from cache & discounts which lets you buy more in round 3, so whoring qum seems better for that way too.